What does everything think about the gas/h20 mix for big fuel efficiency..?

[CrackerJackToy]

I got to reading around & looking on youtube, and I noticed that using gas/h20 mix will yeild very high gas mileage increase. You must run two seperate tanks, one for gas, one for water, but should yield 20+mpg on the h2 in the city. It should also yield 28-30mpg in the city for my Corvette, if its as true as the customer testimonials.

I figured I would ask everyones opinion here, since $4 a gallon & only rising really hurts.

[TXSUT]

Snake oil.

[HummerJim]

Water injection on piston and turbine engines is not new. It was used tested by Tom McHale in Mechanics Illustrated in the 50s on a '57 T -bird (yep, I'm an old fart, but I loved his car reviews). His verdict was it did nothing at all. The original Boeing 720, 707 and KC 135 used water injection as a means of increasing the density of the air flowing out of the burner cans, but it used a tremendous amount of water.
The most famous pitson engine with water injection was the Pratt and Whitney R4360 producing 3800 horsepower on the C124, Globemaster. The water injection system required ADI or ADF (anti detonation fluid), but the water injection system was disabled on all the engines in the '70s because of burnt pistons and valves due to uneven combustion caused by water injection. Anti detonation fluid was required because adding water to gas lowers its octane rating (dillutes it) while increasing the mixture's density. Water injection on the R4360 was used to increase horsepower when overgrossed, but had no effect on pounds of fuel burned..

[MDimitri]

If there is no symptom of degradation to valves, pistons, rings and actual Hydrogen & Oxygen burn in the cylinder along with atomized fuel then this is a viable alternative. The below numbers are impressive: Albeit some of the numbers barely get by the 50% mark. A negligible improvement was on the GMC-2500, but still enough for the owner to realize a savings.

[Fastest H-Town Realtor]

Methanol Inject is a biggie on blown engines where detonation may be a problem, but on a N/A otto cycle auto motor it is nothing but a way to sell water injection kits to folks who believe market hype and in theinlg like the Tornator...or whatever that cut up Coke can thing is they stick in the CAI.

[CrackerJackToy]

Originally Posted by MDimitri

If there is no symptom of degradation to valves, pistons, rings and actual Hydrogen & Oxygen burn in the cylinder along with atomized fuel then this is a viable alternative. The below numbers are impressive: Albeit some of the numbers barely get by the 50% mark. A negligible improvement was on the GMC-2500, but still enough for the owner to realize a savings.

This is exactly what im talking about. Hydrogen based alternative fuel.

(Sorry for putting h20 which is water in the title, guys.) I am FULLY aware of what methanol/alcohol/water injection is, and how it works. I used to drive an evo, and that is the every day norm for evo drivers to do. Although, I am NOT talking about water injection here, rather, I meant hydrogen!

A local guy here on my local car forum has a home made kit he put together for his bike. He claims before he was getting 60mpg, and after the kit (which I could have swore he said gas and h20 mix), he claims hes getting 150mpg. I believe he is running straight hydrogen though, and not a hydrogen/gas mix.

I figure, why not implement this into the H2, and get 25mpg in the city.

[CrackerJackToy]

Here is a quote from him, from earlier.

I build a hydrogen generator that basically has 2 stainless plates that conduct 20 amps through a very small cell that then produces what is called brown's gas. It splits the Oxygen and hydrogen atoms and converts them to a gas. So you get hyrdrogen (which is the fuel) WITH OXYGEN which makes more power.

It got 60mpg before the cell.

[NoMoGMPG]

Originally Posted by MDimitri

If there is no symptom of degradation to valves, pistons, rings and actual Hydrogen & Oxygen burn in the cylinder along with atomized fuel then this is a viable alternative. The below numbers are impressive: Albeit some of the numbers barely get by the 50% mark. A negligible improvement was on the GMC-2500, but still enough for the owner to realize a savings.

This such a crock of psuedo-science and junk documentation. Hydrogen by itself has virtually no power output when burned. It is also a ganged element, meaning that in natural form, 2 atoms are bonded, i.e. H2. (Clever huh, H2 forum...oh nevermind). In a typical hydrocarbon, there can be up to 26 Hydrogen atoms PER molecule! The claims that a vehicle mounted electralysis device will convert milliliters of water into enough hydrogen to propel a full size vehicle hundreds of kilometers is ludicrious.

HHO gas, or Brown's gas, can and does burn hot. That's it, but as an alternative fuel source? No way. There isn't enough BTU per gram. Also, it is extremely dangerous to store, a single blowback can destroy the generator system very fast, think Hindenberg.

The best way to utilize Hydrogen is the fuel cell, stripping the single electron, utilize the negative charge for "work", then returning it to its proton unchanged where it is combined with oxygen to make water. I'm all for that, bring on the diesel/fuel cell electric Hummer! We would be able to sneak right up and drive over the leaf lickers as they sniff their self-righteous asses and lick psychodelic toad skin.

[CrackerJackToy]

Originally Posted by NoMoGMPG

This such a crock of psuedo-science and junk documentation. Hydrogen by itself has virtually no power output when burned. It is also a ganged element, meaning that in natural form, 2 atoms are bonded, i.e. H2. (Clever huh, H2 forum...oh nevermind). In a typical hydrocarbon, there can be up to 26 Hydrogen atoms PER molecule! The claims that a vehicle mounted electralysis device will convert milliliters of water into enough hydrogen to propel a full size vehicle hundreds of kilometers is ludicrious.

HHO gas, or Brown's gas, can and does burn hot. That's it, but as an alternative fuel source? No way. There isn't enough BTU per gram. Also, it is extremely dangerous to store, a single blowback can destroy the generator system very fast, think Hindenberg.

The best way to utilize Hydrogen is the fuel cell, stripping the single electron, utilize the negative charge for "work", then returning it to its proton unchanged where it is combined with oxygen to make water. I'm all for that, bring on the diesel/fuel cell electric Hummer! We would be able to sneak right up and drive over the leaf lickers as they sniff their self-righteous asses and lick psychodelic toad skin.

Ok, so then how about gasoline + hydrogen injection if hydrogen has no power output?.. Hydrogen is very flammable. There is a HUGE amount of people who have test hydrogen injection over the net who have great & positive results. I have yet to come across someone who has tried it & had no results whatsoever. But then again... you & I have never tried, so we cant really give any real input here.

[NoMoGMPG]

Originally Posted by CrackerJackToy

Ok, so then how about gasoline + hydrogen injection if hydrogen has no power output?.. Hydrogen is very flammable. There is a HUGE amount of people who have test hydrogen injection over the net who have great & positive results. I have yet to come across someone who has tried it & had no results whatsoever. But then again... you & I have never tried, so we cant really give any real input here.

Unless results are documented in a controlled closed enviroment, any claim to "positive" results are subjective. More like superfluous hyperbole. The simple rule in both chemistry and physics is you cannot get out more energy than you put in, that would be equal to perpertual motion. So, in theory, you will extract the energy from burning H2 and O2 equal to or less than, the energy to seperate the molucule. Hardly substantial.

The only way Hydrogen would be of any benefit to a modern gasoline burning engine is in compressed liquid form, which I highly doubt can be attained by these "huge amount of people" on the net. Those hydrogen bubblers I've seen on Youtube wouldn't produce enough hydrogen to fill a combustion chamber in a minute, let alone at 4-5k RPM.

[CrackerJackToy]

Well I plan to conduct my own testing, & I will update everyone with my findings.

[johndjmix1]

Just got back from RAMP Hummer today, got a new battery and clearance light under warantee.

While talking to the service Manager, he told me about a guy they deal with that has put on one of these hydrogen/gas units and it averaging around 27MPG. He said this was confirmed by others that have drive the H2 and by the avg fuel econ display.

Would the display show such an increase? How does the display get a readout? I was thinking from a VAC sensor? Does it actually look at the injector pulses and figure it out from that?

I have to plug the dealer real quick, as their serivce is simply awesome. I didnt even buy the truck from them, but still they are always ready to help. I just show up and they do the work right there, on the spot, and seem to have almost everything in stock. Never have I had an issue, had to argue a point, or to prove anything to them. Even If i have to pay a bit more, I will buy my next truck from them. This is really what helps the brand, dealers like this.

--John

[HUMMERcustoms.com/TAZ]

If hydrogren say were to work. Has anyone thought of the next issue.

Liquid hydrogen is a hazordous material that does require a hazmat endoursement on a CDL license. Perhaps in smaller amounts it is OK?

Just thought I would mention as I'm curious at least on this part.

TAZ

[CrackerJackToy]

Originally Posted by johndjmix1

Just got back from RAMP Hummer today, got a new battery and clearance light under warantee.

While talking to the service Manager, he told me about a guy they deal with that has put on one of these hydrogen/gas units and it averaging around 27MPG. He said this was confirmed by others that have drive the H2 and by the avg fuel econ display.

Would the display show such an increase? How does the display get a readout? I was thinking from a VAC sensor? Does it actually look at the injector pulses and figure it out from that?

I have to plug the dealer real quick, as their serivce is simply awesome. I didnt even buy the truck from them, but still they are always ready to help. I just show up and they do the work right there, on the spot, and seem to have almost everything in stock. Never have I had an issue, had to argue a point, or to prove anything to them. Even If i have to pay a bit more, I will buy my next truck from them. This is really what helps the brand, dealers like this.

--John

Impressive results. Probably highway results though.

[johndjmix1]

27mpg highway is fine in my book!

--John

[kalantar]

I would be very happy with 27 mpg.

[BlueTJCO]

Originally Posted by johndjmix1

Just got back from RAMP Hummer today, got a new battery and clearance light under warantee.

While talking to the service Manager, he told me about a guy they deal with that has put on one of these hydrogen/gas units and it averaging around 27MPG. He said this was confirmed by others that have drive the H2 and by the avg fuel econ display.

Would the display show such an increase? How does the display get a readout? I was thinking from a VAC sensor? Does it actually look at the injector pulses and figure it out from that?


--John

You should see what gas mileage I can get my display to read at sometimes......

[BlueTJCO]

Originally Posted by CrackerJackToy

Impressive results. Probably highway results though.

Prob bull **** results. If this was practical and easy on a new vehicle it would be everywhere, and it wouldn't have taken higher gas prices and a forum to dig it up.....

[TRUBRIT]

Well.....it is out there.
http://www.water-for-fuel-scam.com/index7bfuel.htm
They have tried these in the Big Rigs too. Not so successful with the Diesel Engine.
On the news the other day they had a test car running around Tokyo running with just a Hydrogen Generator. Only water as the fuel.
Everyone was sceptical about running a Diesel on old cooking oil....now look. XTreme 4x4 was showing in detail how to make your own Bio Fuel. Works out to $1.20. Kit costa $8,000.00.
Don't blow off the Hydrogen idea too quick.

[johndjmix1]

So no one here is going to spend the $65 to $300 to try this out?????

Ive tried out enough stuff (Bud Light, Corona, Miller), your guys turn.

--John