diesel

[lennyrebel]

Originally Posted by -=Mac=-

Knowing my luck, the wrong people would end up dying so it isn't even good to cure over-population!!

Seriously, your arguments were valid 10 years ago but the technology has advanced remarkably. According to what I've read (yeah, I know... seeing is believing) the Bluetec being produced by Mercedes is cleaner than a gas engine. One of the key differences between European and American diesels has always been the higher sulfur content allowed in American diesel fuel. The oil companies are now producing more refined (ie: less sulfur) diesel which won't produce as much gack to clog everyone's lungs. Advances in technology, better fuel... it's all good. Then there's the biodiesel possibilities.

In the meantime, I'm not contrary to gas engines. I didn't buy an H3 to sit in the garage. I'm just open to alternatives.

-Mac

First let me state that my son is a Diesel Mechanic and I am in the automobile business as well . He does Emission checks on diesels and all they use is an opacity meter 12 inches above the stack at 1400 rpm .If some light passes through its a go. In 2007 all diesels must have catalytic converters, watch them plug up and get blown out or discarded. Naturally when your in your Diesel you don't notice soot and smell cause its behind you for everyone else to breathe. But I guess that is the philosophy of the me generation ,as long as I'm saving a buck to hell with everybody else. And I guess you don't understand that in the cracking process you can get more than 50 gallons of gas from a barrel of crud whereas with unrefined diesel your lucky to get 35 0r 40 gallons. So the mileage thing is a draw if the taxes were equal.

[H3PAC]

Originally Posted by lennyrebel

First let me state that my son is a Diesel Mechanic and I am in the automobile business as well . He does Emission checks on diesels and all they use is an opacity meter 12 inches above the stack at 1400 rpm .If some light passes through its a go. In 2007 all diesels must have catalytic converters, watch them plug up and get blown out or discarded. Naturally when your in your Diesel you don't notice soot and smell cause its behind you for everyone else to breathe. But I guess that is the philosophy of the me generation ,as long as I'm saving a buck to hell with everybody else. And I guess you don't understand that in the cracking process you can get more than 50 gallons of gas from a barrel of crud whereas with unrefined diesel your lucky to get 35 0r 40 gallons. So the mileage thing is a draw if the taxes were equal.

I'm glad to see that you immediately pulled your original reply to Mac and toned it down some, but take it easy. Mac is very correct about new diesel technology, particularly in Europe, where there is a different, cleaner burning fuel technology as well. And not all diesels are horribly dirty. My father drove a Dodge pickup powered by a Cummins turbo diesel (an outstanding, bulletproof engine) for a number of years. There were no choking clouds of black soot spewing out from his exhaust. And being born in 1924, living through the great depression, and serving in WW2, my father, now 82 and a diesel advocate, is certainly not a member of the "me" generation.

I find it rather ironic that you, driving a vehicle that gets around 16 mph, is preaching about vehicle emissions and efficiency. Why don't you do the responsible thing and by a vehicle that gets 32 mpg and produces exactly half the emissions of your H3? Instead, you drive down the highway "spewing" twice the carcinogens and greenhouse gasses than you need to, while wagging your finger at others. I don't find your arguent to be very credible from an environmental standpoint. Perhaps take another tack.

[-=Mac=-]

I just traded a 1996 Dodge pickup with the Cummins turbodiesel 5.9 litre. We have emissions testing in Vancouver and the last time I had it tested, the opacity was 2.36% according to my records so no black cloud of smoke.

As for whether I understand the refining of aliphatic hydrocarbons or not, gasoline is a mixture of C7H16 through C11H24, all which boil at temperatures lower than water which is why they evaporate so readily. Kerosene, diesel and other fuel oils are in the C12Hn to C17Hn range. The denser oils and solid waxes (C18Hn through C80Hn) are typically cracked (a refinement process used to literally split apart heavy hydrocarbons into lighter ones) and later reformed using a process called alkylation but diesel isn't cracked as it's a desirable commodity.

I started this thread to discuss the idea of a diesel engine for the H3. The H1 had diesel engines since the beginning and, from what I've read, many people would welcome a diesel option in the H2. Others expressed their opinions both yea and nay. From your posts, I'm not sure if your problem is with me or diesels or both. If I did something to upset you, it wasn't intentional (especially since I have no idea what your beef is) but if you're hoping to impress or intimidate me, you've failed on both counts.

-Mac

[Huck BB62]

Originally Posted by -=Mac=-

I just traded a 1996 Dodge pickup with the Cummins turbodiesel 5.9 litre. We have emissions testing in Vancouver and the last time I had it tested, the opacity was 2.36% according to my records so no black cloud of smoke.

As for whether I understand the refining of aliphatic hydrocarbons or not, gasoline is a mixture of C7H16 through C11H24, all which boil at temperatures lower than water which is why they evaporate so readily. Kerosene, diesel and other fuel oils are in the C12Hn to C17Hn range. The denser oils and solid waxes (C18Hn through C80Hn) are typically cracked (a refinement process used to literally split apart heavy hydrocarbons into lighter ones) and later reformed using a process called alkylation but diesel isn't cracked as it's a desirable commodity.

I started this thread to discuss the idea of a diesel engine for the H3. The H1 had diesel engines since the beginning and, from what I've read, many people would welcome a diesel option in the H2. Others expressed their opinions both yea and nay. From your posts, I'm not sure if your problem is with me or diesels or both. If I did something to upset you, it wasn't intentional (especially since I have no idea what your beef is) but if you're hoping to impress or intimidate me, you've failed on both counts.

-Mac

I drive a Duramax. I'd LOVE to have that engine and transmission in an H2, and a 6 cylinder version in the H3. Better mileage BY FAR better mileage. Off road, diesel's the ticket, it's torque off idle is a perfect match for the conditions.

Catalytic converters have been on diesels for a while now, they're not clogging up any more than any other vehicle. New for '07 WILL be particulate filters. They will not clog up either. They're designed to go into a self clearing burn off mode to keep it clear. They won't last forever though and will have a projected lifespan of about 100k miles.

People that don't like diesels haven't owned one. There's not a gas engine out there that will pull, or give the mileage of any of the big three diesel pickup truck engines. My Dmax is no more noisey than some chucklehead's aftermarket exhausted anything. It doesn't make smoke.

To keep this discussion real: The H2 is going bye-bye unless they put a diesel in it to bring the mileage up. It takes torque to maintain the thing at freeway speeds, at a low rpm, and get good mileage. The H3 could benefit from ANY engine upgrade. I'm imagining that six cylinder Dmax with a sweet six speed behind it and getting in the mid 20s on mileage. Ohhhhhh yeah!

[-=Mac=-]

Originally Posted by Huck BB62

I'm imagining that six cylinder Dmax with a sweet six speed behind it and getting in the mid 20s on mileage. Ohhhhhh yeah!

That's what I'm talking about!!

-Mac

[Wisha Haddan H3]

Originally Posted by -=Mac=-

That's what I'm talking about!!

-Mac

x2

That's a dream at best.

S.

[Huck BB62]

Dreams don't become reality in the auto world without customer demand. Hell, they built the SSR and Prowler didn't they? How far fetched were THOSE things?

Originally Posted by Huck BB62

Dreams don't become reality in the auto world without customer demand. Hell, they built the SSR and Prowler didn't they? How far fetched were THOSE things?

Agreed, dreams are worth striving for in the automotive world. But from a business standpoint, SSR's and Prowlers are marginal at best both technically and economically.

S.

[BEST 4x4xFAR]

I'm holding out hope for a nice turbo diesel. I personally agree with the original poster, and feel a nice modern turbo diesel would be an excellent engine choice for the H3, especially if offered with a manual transmission. Clean, considerably better fuel efficiency, excellent off idle torque. I doubt that GM will be able to have the vision to see the possibilities though. They are only doing it in Europe because the truck would be doomed without it there. Europeans love their diesels, and for good reason.

[lennyrebel]

Originally Posted by H3PAC

I'm glad to see that you immediately pulled your original reply to Mac and toned it down some, but take it easy. Mac is very correct about new diesel technology, particularly in Europe, where there is a different, cleaner burning fuel technology as well. And not all diesels are horribly dirty. My father drove a Dodge pickup powered by a Cummins turbo diesel (an outstanding, bulletproof engine) for a number of years. There were no choking clouds of black soot spewing out from his exhaust. And being born in 1924, living through the great depression, and serving in WW2, my father, now 82 and a diesel advocate, is certainly not a member of the "me" generation.

I find it rather ironic that you, driving a vehicle that gets around 16 mph, is preaching about vehicle emissions and efficiency. Why don't you do the responsible thing and by a vehicle that gets 32 mpg and produces exactly half the emissions of your H3? Instead, you drive down the highway "spewing" twice the carcinogens and greenhouse gasses than you need to, while wagging your finger at others. I don't find your arguent to be very credible from an environmental standpoint. Perhaps take another tack. Attachment 34152

For your info. my first reply didn't enter right it was not any different than second. Okay I forgot how thin skinned all you H3ers are. Funny how you pick out parts of my statement and others such as how you can get way more gas from cracking crude than making diesel. Also I guess you don't understand difference between possible greenhouse gases and known carcinogens from diesel particulate . And My FAther God Bless HIs sole never let any foreign junk such as vws or toyotas on his property in the 88yrs that he lived. In the future I'll confine my messages to the H2ers who have more intelligence and less belligerence. I guess cops and wannabees always want the last word and to hell with Facts .THE REBEL and PROUD OF IT

[H3.007]

Any costs previously saved by using diesel have also disappeared here.

Until we develope our fuel resources to the point where we can
to the Middle East, I am afraid we are at the disposal of thieving oil barons and robber refineries everywhere.

[H3PAC]

Originally Posted by lennyrebel

For your info. my first reply didn't enter right it was not any different than second. Okay I forgot how thin skinned all you H3ers are. Funny how you pick out parts of my statement and others such as how you can get way more gas from cracking crude than making diesel. Also I guess you don't understand difference between possible greenhouse gases and known carcinogens from diesel particulate . And My FAther God Bless HIs sole never let any foreign junk such as vws or toyotas on his property in the 88yrs that he lived. In the future I'll confine my messages to the H2ers who have more intelligence and less belligerence. I guess cops and wannabees always want the last word and to hell with Facts .THE REBEL and PROUD OF IT

I hate calling someone a liar, but you sure DID change your post. I was in the middle of replying to your original message to Mac when an error occurred (when you deleted your original). I just happened to save a particularly rude portion of it. Here it is:

Typical diesel owners just brag about their mpg while they go spewing their soot and carcinogens down the highway. Sure if your inside it you don't smell it everybody else has to. I guess your part of the me only generation and to hell with everybody else. for your information I'm in the automotive industry as well.

Look familiar? It should. You wrote it.

Originally Posted by lennyrebel

In the future I'll confine my messages to the H2ers who have more intelligence and less belligerence.

Promise?

[-=Mac=-]

Originally Posted by lennyrebel

For your info. my first reply didn't enter right it was not any different than second. Okay I forgot how thin skinned all you H3ers are. Funny how you pick out parts of my statement and others such as how you can get way more gas from cracking crude than making diesel. Also I guess you don't understand difference between possible greenhouse gases and known carcinogens from diesel particulate . And My FAther God Bless HIs sole never let any foreign junk such as vws or toyotas on his property in the 88yrs that he lived. In the future I'll confine my messages to the H2ers who have more intelligence and less belligerence. I guess cops and wannabees always want the last word and to hell with Facts .THE REBEL and PROUD OF IT

Why am I not surprised by this post?

Fact? What facts, Lenny? The fact you're WRONG about diesels, the fact you tried and FAILED to impress with your "extensive" knowledge and experience or did you have some other "facts" which only exist in your head?

Now you've finally aired your true objection... you don't like cops.

Yeah, I saw your remark on the other thread. Funny for a guy who's been on this forum for a couple of months to be making smarmy remarks about me being a newby and how ironic for YOU to be telling ME to lighten up!!

I don't know nor care why you don't like cops but if you're not man enough to deal with me for who I am, not what I do for a living, what does that say about you?

For other who wish to continue discussing the possibility of a diesel H3, maybe even explore what size/type/configuration would work best, I would like to continue this thread despite the PROUD REBEL. Please excuse my redress of Lenny's nonsense. I've found it's best to put bullies in their place quickly and move on...

-Mac

[Viet Nam Vette]

........

S.

[-=Mac=-]

The Jeep Liberty is available with a 2.8-liter four-cylinder motor that provides adequate power and 26 mpg with a 4 speed automatic tranny. When I test drove a Liberty, about the only thing which impressed me was the engine and even that was only adequate.

Since the H3 comes with an inline five, I took a look for inline five diesels and found this interesting article as well as numerous articles on the Dodge Sprinter which has an inline five turbodiesel giving 154 horsepower and 243 pounds-feet of torque. Hmmmm, more HP would be nice but that torque number looks good for a start.

-Mac

[Desert Dan]

Let's see if the Holden H3 they sell in Australia has a diesel option.

I still see fewer gas stations with diesel here in CA.
I haven't seen any E 85 yellow pumps yet

[lamric]

Originally Posted by lennyrebel

Okay first of all Diesels pump out known carcinogens. NO. 2 When you crack a barrel of crude depending on grade you can get more than 50 gallons of gas and perhaps 20 gallons of stove oil with some propane depending on time of year etc. So because diesel is not nearly so refined it has more btus per gallon so its heavier but a barrel of crude gives you 40 gallons of diesel. Big savings in refinery costs so more energy at roughly same per gallon price. However if we all start burning diesel I'm sure price will soar . Catalytic converters for 2007 for diesels. Watch these all plug up from soot. Presently diesel emissions are only checked for clarity,ie if some light will pass through exhaust its a pass, never mind all the crap your inundating everyone with. I don't think diesel is much of an answer unless your trying to cure over population. The Rebel

One barrel of crude oil is 42 gallons. Out of that you will get roughly 19.4 gallons of gas and 9.7 gallons of home heating oil/diesel fuel. The cracking process will yield about 42 gallons of products.

[Wisha Haddan H3]

Originally Posted by -=Mac=-

The Jeep Liberty is available with a 2.8-liter four-cylinder motor that provides adequate power and 26 mpg with a 4 speed automatic tranny. When I test drove a Liberty, about the only thing which impressed me was the engine and even that was only adequate.

That little 4 banger diesel puts out 295 ft-lbs at 1800 rpm. That's a lot of torque for 2.8 liters !!! It's all on the low end though ... drops off really fast after the peak, but still matches the 3.5L max even at 4000 rpm. Not much HP tho ... peaks at 160 HP.