I'm thinking about switching over to the other team.

[Boar-Ral]

Originally Posted by BKLYNH2

I don't know are there any other canucks in this room?

By the way, do you know who was behind the NEXTSTEP OS?

Forum membership is international, so you figure it out, genius.

Steve Jobs founded NeXT after he was ousted from the ownership group at Apple so to be fair, he stole innovation both ways. Not only did he steal innovation for his new company, but prior to leaving Apple he knew that they were looking at a particular workstation hardware that, lo and behold, NeXT started designing and producing. It was so obvious that Apple sued NeXT, if memory serves correctly. Furthermore, NeXT did not go out of business -- Apple bought them out and Steve Jobs came along for the ride. So much for innovation.

How long did it take you to figure you had something on my argument? You've responded to plenty of other aspects of it between now and when I stated it.

[BKLYNH2]

I was just getting tired of bickering. As I see it apple has always been Steve Jobs so OSX being derived from NEXT is really just the evolution of MAC OS not stealing. I don't see how it is a lack of innovation same guy doing his thing he just developed it elsewhere. Apple was a mess without Jobs, look at what has happened since he's been back.

[Boar-Ral]

Originally Posted by BKLYNH2

I was just getting tired of bickering. As I see it apple has always been Steve Jobs so OSX being derived from NEXT is really just the evolution of MAC OS not stealing. I don't see how it is a lack of innovation same guy doing his thing he just developed it elsewhere. Apple was a mess without Jobs, look at what has happened since he's been back.

I'm getting tired of bickering too, but it is a slow day at work.

I am not denying in any way that Apple is doing a remarkable job with what they have, nor am I denying that Steve Jobs is the catalyst behind it.

I'm just saying that either way you go, PC or Apple, it isn't all rainbows and unicorns. (I think that can be said without a gay reference.) Every person is different and what computer they choose will vary. That is why I think that it is important to try both and see what works best. Personally, when I bought my first modern Apple computer, I was excited and I think it is great. Apart from the weird problems that occur after a few weeks of regular use, it is a fantastic piece of engineering. I even got to gloat for a few weeks when I bought it, because I had a faster laptop than some of the pro-Apple owners at work had in their desktops. (That changed quickly, though.)

I am privledged that I am able to own both and use both, as I know most people cannot. (In a general sense. Amongst the membership of this forum, I do not expect that to be a big issue. Then again, it is becoming a stretch for me now too.) That is why it is really important for people to find what works for them, because after you buy it, that's it. Some places will accept returns within 30 days, but six months down the road if you find a piece of software that you cannot live without and it doesn't work on your computer -- PC or Apple, there is OS X software I'd love on my PC -- you are hooped.

That's all I'm saying. (With lots of being sidetracked.)

[BKLYNH2]

[dеiтайожни]

BKLYNH2, why would you wear your unicorn shirt to a Mac convention? Don't they have dress codes for those things? I guess that's just "Think Different" for you...

[KS Trekker]

Originally Posted by BKLYNH2

self

Need I say more? First of all Macs are both Apple hardware and OS (Operating System) for the non-IT techno-idiot that thinks they "owned" me. So it's not really fair to compare all PCs to Macs. Microsoft does not make the machine, just the OS and applications. Bring it on, I'll even give you my IP address if you think you can hack me and my Windows systems. I've never had a virus on my Windows, but I'm not a freakin' idiot that downloads everything either.

[bparker]

Here here

Someone had to say it haha

Originally Posted by KS Trekker

First of all Macs are both Apple hardware and OS (Operating System) for the non-IT techno-idiot that thinks they "owned" me.

[MajorGeek]

Being in the business, there are pros and cons. Had this discussion 1,000+ times.

Macs are nice machines. I love em. Good operating system, excellent for sound and video editing. They are also expensive and no choice in what hardware you get, not always bad. Software is more limited and slower to release. Still, if you can afford it, you will like it. Price drives many away.

PC's are more vunerable due to people who are click happy. One time, while doing a review of an anti-spyware program, I tried to get infected as a test (with no anti-malware tools running) and I could not no matter how hard I tried, and I saw some sick crap I have found that the majority of pc users click ok to anything. They typically are downloading illegal music, videos, porn or all of the above. If they are not, then a family member is. They also tend to fall for free screensavers and things that require you download a program to get a program or give up your email and more.

PC's are a huge target because Windows (98, Me, 2k, Vista, 03) are easily installed on the overwhelming majority of computers. When the security argument comes up, you simply need to read Apples and Microsofts patch release notes, they tend to look almost the same! Look at it this way, if you start a business, do you target 95% of the market, or 5% of the market? Theres no money to be made infecting Macs with malware. The most secure, stable computers are the ones not connected to the internet, used by one person, who never installs anything. A little knowledge goes a long way

[bparker]

Truer werds have neva been spoken.

Originally Posted by MajorGeek

PC's are more vunerable due to people who are click happy. I have found that the majority of pc users click ok to anything. They typically are downloading illegal music, videos, porn or all of the above. If they are not, then a family member is. They also tend to fall for free screensavers and things that require you download a program to get a program or give up your email and more.

[Boar-Ral]

Originally Posted by BKLYNH2

[Boar-Ral]

Originally Posted by MajorGeek

PC's are more vunerable due to people who are click happy. One time, while doing a review of an anti-spyware program, I tried to get infected as a test (with no anti-malware tools running) and I could not no matter how hard I tried, and I saw some sick crap I have found that the majority of pc users click ok to anything. They typically are downloading illegal music, videos, porn or all of the above. If they are not, then a family member is. They also tend to fall for free screensavers and things that require you download a program to get a program or give up your email and more.

Exactly. I had an argument about Windows Vista security last week with someone who argued that UAC was pointless because every time a security prompt appears, he just keeps clicking OK, so it is pointless. That type of behaviour is bad for two reasons: when such a prompt appears you never click OK without thinking about it, and it also implied that he was operating without an administrator password, otherwise he would need to enter that information each time.

It is basic things like that which really makes the difference between those who are infected and those who are not. I have seen a few people completely mess up their iMac because they did not configure it with a root password and started poking at settings and files until the system would not boot. And the worst is that these same people will do it again and again no matter how many times you tell them and no matter how many times they break something.

As you indicated, screensavers are one of the biggest security risks that I have seen on Windows PCs. New mouse pointers are another one that seem to get people hooked. I have never really figured out the latter, as most of the mouse pointers are so convuluted that I cannot even tell where to click anymore on these computers.

Bleh!

[marin8703]

Quote:
Originally Posted by marin8703
I have to agree with D, on almost everything. MAC besides popular beleife (what's the matter is your spell check crashed?)crash lots and ltos of times unless you baby it. The PC crashes about the same as a MAC, when overloaded a mac would crash just as easily as a PC, its just that MAC users dont do much that requires so overloading, hehe, maybe they do. Ok aside from that being completely incoherrent I ask again what the hell do you people do that reqires such unbelievable processor power. They animate tv shows and movies on MACS under tight time deadlines with heavier processor requirements than most of you can conceive of using.

The thing about Viruses, forget about that mith, might have been true once but not anymore, MAC will get viruses, they are not invisable machines and their code is not written by an imortal.Ok I'm not even going to bother with the poor spelling and poor grammar anymore, its everywhere. How is it a myth if your own statement implies that mac viral infections are coming in the FUTURE. PC's are a greater target for viruses and will always be, in the future viruses will diminish as operating systems become designed to internally thwart virus attacks. This will apply to all, by the way, in the mean time you are still way safer with a MAC, FACT

Software cabailities, big issue. You wont find out how big the issue is untill you get the MAC. Even simple software that you would think is universal is not there for MAC. I had a MAC about a year ago, for about 2 months, and gave it away as a present cauze it sucked so much, couldnt get any software for it, that i needed, only some gay video software. What kind of ghey software were you looking for? a meatspin screen saver? You're going to need to elaborate. You might have an easier time finding the software you need if you took your head out of your ass.

I did like their user interface, but Vista is matching that rite now. Donno how much vista is an improvement over XP but so far it seems like alot. There will be patches and things coming out probably to fix small things, just like in a first year model car/truck. Funny when apple releases a new version of OS people race to embrace it when windows does they cringe. You've already admitted that XP needed improvement and that vista will be full of bugs, oh boy I can't wait to run out and put that junk in my computer.

My school just upgraded 7 of the 30 some laboratories to Vista and they are booked all the time, the XP labs and the 4-5 MAC labs are almost empty. I used Vista several days ago, and it is much faster at loading programs compared to XP, it looks better, and apperantly it is safer (for some). Viruses are nothing to worry about if you know how to protect yourself. On my other computer I have absolutely no antivisrus or antispyware program installed and have not received a virus ever. (I do an internet scan once in a while so that I know).You're fine use of the english language and your exemplary spelling suggest that we should not be impressed by the decisions made at your school.

So my advise is if you have used windows, get a Vista Premium computer and enjoy, you wont be dissapointed. Im looking at some HPs rite now cauze im palnning on buyng too, and they are awsome.

You have fun with that

hey, thanks for the grammar and spelling check, but you got most of what I was trying to say. This time im going to do my best to keeps things spelled rightand as simple as possible, although i gaurantee nothing. Didn't realize this was a spelling contest.

I'll just start from you first point, comment on it and go from there.

The only processor demanding work that I have known a mac to do is movie processing. Im not saying thats an easy job, not at all, but come on, it sure as hell isn't the hardest. I have not seen a mac do laboratory simulations/analysis of even the simplest crap. Someone posted a screen of a mac with all kinds of programs opened, that was pointless. Having windows open does not require more power than my ti-89 has. Why dont you try having the autocad software do a rendering of a 40 mb drawing, and have the other programs do stuff at the same time, it ain't gona happen no matter how much you wish it. A PC wont do it either, I just wanted to point out that having programs loaded into memory means jack.

Ok, again with the spelling, what are you a 50 year old grade school teacher? My statement was "The thing about Viruses, forget about that mith, might have been true once but not anymore, MAC will get viruses, they are not invisable machines and their code is not written by an imortal." How hard is that to understand, are your retarded? It says that macs are not safe anymore, so if you get a mac it can very easily get a virus, its not invisible. Get it? Dont try to read between the line, theres nothing there, and your too stupid to do that anyways. Although I do agree that macs are still safer than pcs.

Again you have a problem with reading comprehension. "couldnt get any software for it, that i needed, only some gay video software." This says that i couldnt get any software for it that i needed, only found useless gay video software, by which i meant video editing software; but for some reason your mind goes to meatspin, whats up with that? BTW, my head has been out of my ass for a long time now, thanks for the suggestion though. Many fluid and thermo simulation software is not available for the mac, and dont even talk about gaming, pathetic. I was saying that there isn't software that I needed, not software that your meatspin loving self needs.

Definately, XP needs improvements and thats what vista is for. I said that Vista will have bugs, not that it will be full of bugs. And OS X needs improvements too, so dont flatter yourself. Every new piece of software has bugs. If it doesnt, all that means is that the company wont admit to any flaws and their software is out there with bugs. It is impossible to have an OS (thousands and thousands of lines of code) that has no bugs, absolutely impossible. if you say otherwise theres something wrong with you.

Oh, and you should be impressed with my university. Im not involved with much writing, so my abilities are sufficient for what i do. Your comprehension skills seem to be on par with my spelling and grammar skills, and thats a problem in any field of work.

Check every university in the entire nation, if you find one running more macs than pc, come back here, post and I will say that you are the man, and I will go purchase a mac. Im talking about real, accredited universities that do reasearch, preferably a tech school, no antsi pantsy art or video editing school. Check the Association of Independent Technological Universities, top tech/research schools in the nation, mine is one of them, and no mac superiority there.

So thanks for the spelling and grammar lessons, and dont be so sensitive, macs arent that bad, just not as good as pcs. And I did not use spell check, I wrote carefully, which was an absolute waste of time.

ssgharkness020147, which way you leaning so far, or did you already make a purchase? good luck with your shopping.

Sorry for the ridiculously long post everyone.

[ssgharkness020147]

I havent made a choice yet. Before I go shopping I want my check from the insurance company. I just got the stuff to file my claim in the mail today, I'll have it sent out by monday, and hopefully this will get figured out easily. While I'm hoping... I hope I get a $10,000.00 check from them too. Max coverege. Fingers crossed.

[dеiтайожни]

Originally Posted by marin8703

I'll just start from you first point, comment on it and go from there.

Uhh... what? Did you mean to say "I'll just start from your first point, comment on it and go from there."? If you could just use proper grammar it wouldn't have taken me 11 minutes to get passed that sentence.

BTW - Firefox has a cool feature that underlines misspelled words as you type them and gives you suggestions. It won't help with your grammar though.

[RubHer Yellow Ducky]

5 pages of "my dick is better then your dick:

ENOUGHT !

[Tah2oe]

Originally Posted by marin8703

Someone posted a screen of a mac with all kinds of programs opened, that was pointless. Having windows open does not require more power than my ti-89 has. Why dont you try having the autocad software do a rendering of a 40 mb drawing, and have the other programs do stuff at the same time, it ain't gona happen no matter how much you wish it. A PC wont do it either, I just wanted to point out that having programs loaded into memory means jack.

Did you notice that there was a mix of Apple and PC software running simultaneously?

I use AutoCad for electrical design and it is in use when open. I don't do any 3D rendering with AutoCad. I also use Microsoft Project for project scheduling, I was also working on a Visio drawing because we are a data/comm contractor also.

I was trying to show that these are all PC programs running fine on my Mac. At the same time I was running some of my Mac movie making programs and other Mac software. You cannot show me a PC running PC programs and Mac programs at the same time.

My machine never bogs down, it handles all of these programs not just open but actually performing tasks when open.

Machine Name: Mac Pro
Processor Name: Dual-Core Intel Xeon
Processor Speed: 3.0 GHz
Number Of Processors: 2
Total Number Of Cores: 4
L2 Cache (per processor): 4 MB
Memory: 7 GB
Bus Speed: 1.33 GHz

I also have a lot of windows machines as well. I just prefer working on a platform that allows me to run whatever software I want.

[SnakeH2]

Originally Posted by RubHer Yellow Ducky

5 pages of "my dick is better then your dick:

ENOUGHT !

...and you went through all five pages in search of the best dick

[evldave]

Originally Posted by Tah2oe

Machine Name: Mac Pro
Processor Name: Dual-Core Intel Xeon
Processor Speed: 3.0 GHz
Number Of Processors: 2
Total Number Of Cores: 4
L2 Cache (per processor): 4 MB
Memory: 7 GB
Bus Speed: 1.33 GHz

And how much did you pay for that (nevermined I configured it on Apple's website)??? I bet if I spent as much as you on a regular PC I could get myself a quad core Dell with a crapload of ram and I bet I can run all that software you run, still be able to play top-flight games, plug my PC into my entertainment system, download porn, run a file server for the rest of my home network, watch movies via Windows Vista, stream music to my garage stereo, feed live webcams to the internet, track the weather via my weather station and still have enough money left over to pay for crack, hookers, and beer.


Plus I can (hypothetically) get a lot more pirated software for the PC, not spend a fortune on hardware upgrades, there is significantly more accessories available, compatibility across machines, etc etc etc.

[BKLYNH2]

Just for kicks I checked it out with a comparable dell with 20" widescreen monitor like you did with the apple. I'm at 6,380.00 with only 4gb memory no bluetooth, or wireless capability, no usb modem although i have no idea why you added it. Why can you only buy 4gb of memory for the top of the line dell? Buy the time you add the left out items you will surely wind up a tad higher than the apple. You still won't have great software programs like iphoto, itunes, imovie, or garage band. So looks like your wrong.

[Boar-Ral]

Originally Posted by BKLYNH2

Just for kicks I checked it out with a comparable dell with 20" widescreen monitor like you did with the apple. I'm at 6,380.00 with only 4gb memory no bluetooth, or wireless capability, no usb modem although i have no idea why you added it. Why can you only buy 4gb of memory for the top of the line dell? Buy the time you add the left out items you will surely wind up a tad higher than the apple. You still won't have great software programs like iphoto, itunes, imovie, or garage band. So looks like your wrong.

The Dell Precision workstations allow up to 64 GB of memory. I think the Optiplex only allows 4 GB of memory.

EDIT: Unfortunately, Dell's web site changes from week to week. I've seen Bluetooth offered in the past, but it is missing now. (It is about a $25 option.) I have also seen Fibre Channel offered before, but not now. This is my biggest complaint about Dell, that if I build a computer online and suggest it to someone, they can go two days later and the options are missing. Regardless, the final cost was $5722 for a Precision workstation with the same configuration as a Mac Pro, except it has a Quadro video card instead of Geforce, and the previously-mentioned Fibre Channel and Bluetooth issues. I much prefer the Mac Pro's styling though. The handles are horrible for lugging the things across any distance, though. The edges aren't rounded and after a few hundred feet, hard on the hands. They weigh a lot!