Turbo charging vs. Supercharging

[LasVegas]

I already did. What experience do you have with both supercharges, turbocharger, remote mounted turbocharger and on what vehicle.

[h2sin]

TO4 on CRX with DOHC 1.8L, 12 PSI

[LasVegas]

Somehow I think this is going to be a waste of time. You've made some very bold statements here in a very summarized fasion. I suggest you back it up with facts, then someone might listen. As for the experience I'm not sure what that has to do with a 5 or 6 psi turbo or supercharger on an H2.

[h2sin]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Induction Concepts:
Turbo systems are more complex, simply because they have more tubing, but tubing isn't moving parts, so it doesn't wear out from friction.

Turbos don't require any more maintenance than a supercharger </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think it's alot more than just more tubings, there are wastegate and oil/cooler lines you have to worried about to keep the turbo system running, not to mention the turbo itself. Any of those componenet failure can cause high dollar repairs to your turbo system or even your engine.

I'm not saying supercharger is better but its just more pratical for the common people.

[h2sin]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LasVegas:
Somehow I think this is going to be a waste of time </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It will be for you, I'm not here to start an argument.

[h2sin]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LasVegas:
As for the experience I'm not sure what that has to do with a 5 or 6 psi turbo or supercharger on an H2. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You asked for it

[LasVegas]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by h2sin:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Induction Concepts:
Turbo systems are more complex, simply because they have more tubing, but tubing isn't moving parts, so it doesn't wear out from friction.

Turbos don't require any more maintenance than a supercharger </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think it's alot more than just more tubings, there are wastegate and oil/cooler lines you have to worried about to keep the turbo system running, not to mention the turbo itself. Any of those componenet failure can cause high dollar repairs to your turbo system or even your engine.

I'm not saying supercharger is better but its just more pratical for the common people. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I won't go into my aviation background except to say...

all high performance civil aircraft are turbocharged, not supercharged. Gee, when does reliability count?

When car manufacturers offer high performance options that they have to warranty do they offer turbochargers or superchargers?

What do most race cars use?

There's stock fluid lines all over vehicles. That's rediculous.

Wastegates rarely fail. Period.

Turbochargers have a rated life that's pretty damn long. Typical would be 2000 hours @ 75% continuous power which would equate to driving you car about 180,000 miles at over 90 mph continuously. But if it does fail it's inexpensive and about an hour to change out. Try that when your supercharger fails.

Superchargers have belts, pulleys and many more moving parts than turbochargers. Which would be more inclined to failure?

I'm not knocking superchargers. You're the one making some pretty broad statements about turbochargers and you still haven't backed it up with facts, just an opinion. I'm not looking for an argument either. Just don't like the lack of facts or at least supporting evidence.

[h2sin]

I dont work on aircraft so correct me if I'm wrong, doesnt aircraft go thru inspection between every flight?

Do you pop the hood everytime you drive your H2 to work and once more on the way home?

I think car manufacture offer both turbo and supercharger.

Most race car use turbo due to race regulation and engine configuration, again I do remember saying turbo is build for racing.

Yes there are stock fluid lines running all over the vehicle but I dont think your engine or trans will get as hot as a turbo.

Wastegate rarely fail, can you back that up with facts?

Yes Turbo can last a long time if you take care it

If a belt snapped, replace with another, no biggie. If your turbine shaft breaks... hmmm $$$$

[h2sin]

And PLEASE stop with the race car talk..

NASCAR uses carburetor, does that mean fuel injection sucks?

Turbo are used frequently on formula cars because its easier to use a turbo to create more power out of a small cubic inch motor.

[LasVegas]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by h2sin:
I dont work on aircraft so correct me if I'm wrong, doesnt aircraft go thru inspection between every flight? <span class="ev_code_RED">A general preflight inspection by the pilot and certainly not on your turbocharger in particular. An annual maintenance inspection is done once a year for private use, every 100 hours (about 20,000 miles) for commercial use. The preflight is for safety reasons, not maintenance. Doesn't apply to this issue.</span>

Do you pop the hood everytime you drive your H2 to work and once more on the way home? <span class="ev_code_RED">see above</span>

I think car manufacture offer both turbo and supercharger. <span class="ev_code_RED">Who offers supercharger options for standard street vehicles?</span>

Most race car use turbo due to race regulation and engine configuration, again I do remember saying turbo is build for racing.

Yes there are stock fluid lines running all over the vehicle but I dont think your engine or trans will get as hot as a turbo. <span class="ev_code_RED">The oil line on mine is aircraft rated</span>

Wastegate rarely fail, can you back that up with facts? <span class="ev_code_RED">MILLIONS of miles in the air. Never had one fail. Had one turbo fail in that time</span>

Yes Turbo can last a long time if you take care it <span class="ev_code_RED">Just exactly how do you take care of it?? There's absolutely nothing to do.</span>

If a belt snapped, replace with another, no biggie. If your turbine shaft breaks... hmmm $$$$ <span class="ev_code_RED">$800 or less - big bucks???? Every 180,000 miles or so?? oh, and can you continue driving your car with a broken belt? If a turbo fails you can.

And most of the aircraft I flew the turbo not only boosted the engine it also provided about 6 psi to pressurize the entire cabin</span> </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I appreciate your good questions and response but my experience indicates you're incorrect on your opinion about turbochargers. Just a difference in opinion I guess.

[h2sin]

Land Rover Supercharged, I'm sure you seen the commercials

You can used whatever you want for the oil lines but its the temperature of the oil that I'm worried about

Wastegate can fail just like anything else in your aircrafts or cars, how frequent does it fail.. I dont think anyone can have a real answer to that.

Nothing last forever, everything will need to be replace sooner or later. Turbo system just added that much more to it.

You cant possibly estimate something that you have absolutely no control over, $800 would be the best possible scenario

P.S. If your turbo fails.. I hope you stop driving your car or your aircraft to prevent futher damage

[h2sin]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LasVegas:
The preflight is for safety reasons, not maintenance. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[LasVegas]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by h2sin:
Land Rover Supercharged, I'm sure you seen the commercials <span class="ev_code_RED">Thanks for that info. It's about the only one.</span>

You can used whatever you want for the oil lines but its the tempersture of the oil that I'm worried about <span class="ev_code_RED">mine stayed the same. No rise whatsoever. H2s have oil coolers standard.</span>

Wastegate can fail just like anything else in your aircrafts or cars, how frequent does it fail.. I dont think anyone can have a real answer to that. <span class="ev_code_RED">Oh yes they do. It's called MTBF (mean time between failure). And it's high. Just don't know the number right now.</span>

Nothing last forever, everything will need to be replace sooner or later. Turbo system just added that much more to it. <span class="ev_code_RED">????????????????</span>

You cant possibly estimate something that you have absolutely no control over, $800 would be the best possible scenario <span class="ev_code_RED">Wrong. I've bought many. $800 is high.</span>

P.S. If your turbo fails.. I hope you stop driving your car to prevent futher damage <span class="ev_code_RED">Huh??? I'm sorry Sin, you really don't understand turbochargers. If a turbo fails, the only thing you lose is boost. Drive it forever. Won't make any difference and won't damage anything. </span> </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[LasVegas]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by h2sin:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LasVegas:
The preflight is for safety reasons, not maintenance. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>Guess you didn't understand. A pilot does a routine preflight inspection before every flight. There's a checklist for every aircraft. He's not inspecting the aircraft for maintenance purposes but to determine that there are no deficiencies and that the aircraft is airworthy. Not to turn the wiggit on top of the turbocharger. And it wouldn't matter whether it was turbocharged, supercharged or BScharged.

[h2sin]

You stock oil cooler is meant to cool a stock motor during heavy load, not a 1200F turbo.. imagine how hot that oil gets and how that effect the thermo efficiency of your motor.

And where do you get this MTBF on wastegate for the vehicles?

Let's say due to high heat your turbine oil seal is leaking, your losing oil and you are 10000 ft above ground... Are you going to keep flying that aircraft until you feel like landing it?

Question: And a turbine shaft oil seal does consider to be a turbo failure right?

[h2sin]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LasVegas:
Guess you didn't understand. A pilot does a routine preflight inspection before every flight. There's a checklist for every aircraft. He's not inspecting the aircraft for maintenance purposes but to determine that there are no deficiencies and that the aircraft is airworthy. Not to turn the wiggit on top of the turbocharger. And it wouldn't matter whether it was turbocharged, supercharged or BScharged. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Im not going to beat this one to death but an inspection exist for a purpose.. does your H2 require a safety inspection before you drive it to the grocery store

[LasVegas]

I'm sorry H2Sin. I don't think you understand either the principles or components of a turbocharger system. I've had a great deal of experience with turbochargers. Granted, 95% of that was in aviation. But the principles and components are identical. I just think it's wrong for you to make such broad statements and conclusions with what seems to be limited knowledge about turbos. Let's not waste each others time.

[LasVegas]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by h2sin:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LasVegas:
Guess you didn't understand. A pilot does a routine preflight inspection before every flight. There's a checklist for every aircraft. He's not inspecting the aircraft for maintenance purposes but to determine that there are no deficiencies and that the aircraft is airworthy. Not to turn the wiggit on top of the turbocharger. And it wouldn't matter whether it was turbocharged, supercharged or BScharged. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Im not going to beat this one to death but an inspection exist for a purpose.. does your H2 require a safety inspection before you drive it to the grocery store </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Oh come on. You're rediculous. I'm trying to be nice here and explain some things way over your head. If you don't see the difference, well, no reason to go further.

[h2sin]

Turbo uses oil and coolant, both are consider to be the most vital part of an engine. Now add 1200F to that then you will know why I'm saying what I'm saying.

I'm done. I dont think most ppl on this board care about this subject anyway.

[h2sin]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LasVegas:I don't think you understand either the principles or components of a turbocharger system. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

whatever, I'll keep my opinion to myself on that one