RUBICON '03 PICS

[RubiKen]

Boy that really makes me want to take a cross country trip.

That photo of the campsite is AWESOME.. must have been very nice!



But, you are only kidding about breaking up the rocks, right?!?!?!?

[DRTYFN]

yes.... only kidding.... damnit.

Not "rocks", just one rock. And I don't see why I can't just break off the offending piece. Just kidding. kind of.....

Rubiken, where you from?

[Cranky Steve]

Still blaming that rock for the line ya picked eh?

Founding Member of RCRC 4wd Club Scaramento, CA www.rcrc4x4.com
Pirate4x4.com Vendor & Toyota Truck and 4Runner Talk Forum Moderator

[RubiKen]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DRTYFN:
yes.... only kidding.... damnit.

Not "rocks", just one rock. And I don't see why I can't just break off the offending piece. Just kidding. kind of.....

Rubiken, where you from?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

New Hampshire. We have some fun stuff to play with up here, but nothing like the Rubicon trail!

[Steve R]

DRTYFN,

I REALLY have to venture off from the main discussion area...I tend to stick there and not explore elsewhere.

Dude...seriously fantastic stuff, you've done us all proud. I've heard that most company's producing SUV's run their junk over the Con as a typical test....but these "made it through the Rubicon" rigs come out trashed and useless. It takes huge guts to run a pristine H2 through certain damage and come out so well.

The killer set-up on the rockrails is to have a solid plate that comes from the frame and extends 4" past the existing bars...then turns inward...solid!!! I'm sure we'll see lots of stuff coming down the line.

Tell me...do ya think a 2" lift would have been advantageous....or just kill ya on the side-slope/pucker and create more problems?

[Cranky Steve]

If I remember correctly, we saw H2's on the Con before they went on the Market, so GM fully intended them to be capable of running a difficult trail.

It's kinda funny how untill you actuly run a tri; like the con, you don't think you need the rock sliders and additional skid plates on a wheeler. They make the differenace fo sho on the body damage.

What will be real interesting is with all the H2's selling so well, down the road when they are plentiful as used, I bet we'll see some some bad assed "Beater" H2 Trail rigs. I'm not talking about the show lift chromed out mall cruisers either.

Founding Member of RCRC 4wd Club Scaramento, CA www.rcrc4x4.com
Pirate4x4.com Vendor & Toyota Truck and 4Runner Talk Forum Moderator

[Detonate]

Stever, I'm guessing you haven't road around in a lifted H2 much.

I think this is the 3rd thread I've seen you mention worrying about the H2 flipping.

GM rates the H2 to a 40 degree side slope. Travis (hummerteam) took his 4" lifted truck on the 40 degree slope with no problem. I didn't ride with him, so I can't say how floppy it felt, but he probably ran that course 30 times at least and at no time did he hesitate on the slope.

However, Don took his Rubicon on the course and he only took his jeep to a 30 degree slope before he chickened out.

I know you don't think a 4" lift is the answer, but I'm telling you, it is!

4" Lift, 37" Xterrains, and a Front Locker, and you are golden.

If you still aren't convinced, please buy this stuff for my rig, as I'm a broke bastard, and I'll prove it to you. :P

-Jim March
Arlington TX
2003 Red H2
Beauty is in the eye of the Beer Holder

[Buckeye Hummer]

Ok, so I just wrote a nice long response and when I hit post it timed out damn it

In short: Take the same vehicle lift one, leave the other as is. The lifted vehicle will roll before the one that is not. Maybe you can still hit an intense side slope with the lifted truck but I doubt that it's higher center would match that of the one left stock.

[DRTYFN]

After running the Rubi' I can tell you it would be very unwise to take a lifted H2 on it. There are a couple of spots where the H2 would lean just a little bit too much and rub on either trees or rock walls resulting in either body damage or broken windows.
A lift might be good for an H2 that runs mudholes and such, but IMO not for the tougher trails.
It does need some sturdier undercarriage protection for serious trails.

[Buckeye Hummer]

I thought you had a little lift or is that just a bigger tire?

Steve has a stronger cage underneath that Billy built. It adds weight but it far more crush proof so you can drag over just about anything and stay low.

[DRTYFN]

Just tires.
Any pics of the cage?
Who's Billy?

[Buckeye Hummer]

Billy is Steve's buddy who has an off road shop and a wacked out Humvee. Steve can post a pic but they actually look exactly like the old cage but different material.

He built some really nice side rails too that I believe to be a "must have" for what you're doing. They will make you almost drag proof.

[Cranky Steve]

If you have a decent Mig welder and can use it, Protection is really easy to fab up. Then you can build exactly what you want the way you want it

Founding Member of RCRC 4wd Club Scaramento, CA www.rcrc4x4.com
Pirate4x4.com Vendor & Toyota Truck and 4Runner Talk Forum Moderator

[Detonate]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Buckeye Hummer:
Ok, so I just wrote a nice long response and when I hit post it timed out damn it

In short: Take the same vehicle lift one, leave the other as is. The lifted vehicle will roll before the one that is not. Maybe you can still hit an intense side slope with the lifted truck but I doubt that it's higher center would match that of the one left stock.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>On the same note, a lifted H2 will have more clearance than a non-lifted one.

That is obvious. However, a lifted H2 can still do the 40 degrees which is what GM recommends as the maximum for the non lifted H2.

The higher clearance coupled with the bigger tires gives you WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY more benefits. Better approach, departure, more tire for traction on the rocks, better clearance, etc...

The slightly higher center of gravity is a minor issue.

-Jim March
Arlington TX
2003 Red H2
Beauty is in the eye of the Beer Holder

[Buckeye Hummer]

How does a lift give you more clearance?

[Detonate]

You get to add bigger tires.

-Jim March
Arlington TX
2003 Red H2
Beauty is in the eye of the Beer Holder

[DRTYFN]

Det,
Without increasing the track width I highly doubt the lifted H2 is really going to have the same sidehill capabilities as a non-lifted H2.
Let's say for sake of this arguement that that were true. On the Rubicon there were many times where I would be moving across a very dusty, slippery sidehill slab and start to slip sideways. I would NOT have wanted the extra height to have raised my center of gravity in those situations. It was a bad enough puckering attack as it was.

[Steve R]

Hey Guys....gotta tell ya, I love this subject... as we are the innovators and trying to get better performance from this thing.

There can be no doubt, the higher you lift the vehicle....the greater you compromise side-slope stability....it's a pure trade-off!

I've been on many sideslopes where I've been thinking ANY lift would result in rolling. Seriously....I've been enough sideways that I'm not able to take a **** for days OR have to take some muscle relaxers!

Jim...I hear ya, better angles, more clearance....everything is good with the one exception of compromising side-slope stability. There is just no way around it....putting the weight up higher will essentially create greater leverage...the thing WILL roll over sooner. I also hear you about Trav doing the 40-degrees....but still....

Billy was making some noise about doing a body-drop of 3" and a suspension lift of 4"...now we're cookin'...but can it really be done????

As I see it, we have 2 angles to work: improve clearance AND brace for impact. We have to figure a way to get more clearance without substantially sacrificing stability....and we have to figure out some gnarly protection.

Billy makes his stuff from chrome-moly (sp?). It actually weights less and is several times stronger. My cage is way reinforced. We are also designing some side rockrails that actually are huge plates that extend from the frame all the way about 3.5" out (to replace the bars we have).

The bars we have use a sillyladder-like gussets to hold in place...these things get caught-up and whacked around. A smooth plating (like the H1 has) is more proper a choice.

Like I say....more clearance to avoid the contact AND more protection to absorb the contact. Some beefy-ass tie rods and some metal bumpers...and we're ready to rumble!!!

[Dan]

What this tells me is that if Travis can do a 40 side-slope in his lifted truck, the stock height should be able to do more than 40. GM probably understated it a bit for a safety margin.

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SUT on order 12/02. 10 months down, 8 to go!
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[Detonate]

Exactly Dan!

That was basically what I was trying to say. I fully understand the more sideways you go, the more important center of gravity is.

But having been on a 40 degree slope, I can't ever think of a reason why I'd ever need to be.

Not to mention that ever vehicle is different, and you should always choose the best line for your vehicle.

Maybe a stock H2 goes a bit sideways through an obstacle to avoid a rock that a lifted H2 would just go over.

I still think the lift is more important than the side slope, as we are STILL very wide. Also 37" Xterrains are another 1" wider than our stock 35's...

And out of all of the wheelers I've talked to, you guys are the only ones that think side slope is more important than clearance. I guess that's because most of these guys drive narrow track vehicles to begin with.

Which is my next point. The Jeep guys wouldn't even do the 40 degree sideslope at the track. And Jeeps do just fine off road without having to go crazy sideways.

-Jim March
Arlington TX
2003 Red H2
Beauty is in the eye of the Beer Holder