VA Tech

[Hmmm2]

Originally Posted by KenP

The sad thing is, it looks just like anybody else's.

They have been showing the home on FoxNews. It's a neatly kept, trim townhome, seemingly in a well-kept neighborhood. His parents live there .. while he was at VT he was in a dorm. His sister graduated from Princeton. Knowing many Asian people here, I have no doubt that his parents were very hard working, honorable people. They run a drycleaning business in their town. Academics play a big part in Asian family life, having their children strive in education. (At least, that is what I witness in my area). Perhaps it was more than this guy could take .. or, was pushed so hard in academics that his behavior went unnoticed. The Chicago Tribune has stated that in the killer's note, he expressed hatred towards the 'rich kids'. He obviously had many issues and a lot of hatred. So many ruined lives now.

[K9sH3]

Originally Posted by Mooncricket

30 round glock mags........chained doors........unarmed students......

I have never understood the locked chained doors. Doors can be locked so that you can't get in and have a push bar to get out.
WTF. Even the highschools have locked doors.

[Hmmm2]

Originally Posted by K9sH3

I have never understood the locked chained doors. Doors can be locked so that you can't get in and have a push bar to get out.
WTF. Even the highschools have locked doors.

The doors were chained so the students couldn't get out. The push bars from the 'inside' would obviously allow them to push and run out. That's how I understood the report.

[Andy C]

Originally Posted by K9sH3

Thats the real issue, some other ****turd will do this within 6 months, if the media doesn't get off it already.

I agree with you on this - I am totally for informative news and in no way condone any sort of censorship - but I do believe that a tragic event such as this should be handled with a lot more dignity and decorum. Why we allow an event like this to be turned into a three ring circus ratings war I will never fully understand.

I saw a reporter this morning actually talking about this being the largest attended media event that he had ever seen - even making the cameraman pan around to show all the dozens of news trucks that were in attendance - I turned off the television in disgust just as he was starting to compare it with Superbowl coverage.

As I said - no censorship - but we need something in place to limit intrusive coverage - the authorities should limit the amount of unbiased journalists into a scene - and not have every quaffed dickhead with a mic and a cameraman run amok through a scene of tragedy looking for that ellusive "exclusive" interview.

There are dozens of people deeply affected by this and I really do not think that a massed pack of sensational seeking press is doing anything to help those people.

[Hmmm2]

Originally Posted by Andy C

I agree with you on this - I am totally for informative news and in no way condone any sort of censorship - but I do believe that a tragic event such as this should be handled with a lot more dignity and decorum. Why we allow an event like this to be turned into a three ring circus ratings war I will never fully understand.

I saw a reporter this morning actually talking about this being the largest attended media event that he had ever seen - even making the cameraman pan around to show all the dozens of news trucks that were in attendance - I turned off the television in disgust just as he was starting to compare it with Superbowl coverage.

As I said - no censorship - but we need something in place to limit intrusive coverage - the authorities should limit the amount of unbiased journalists into a scene - and not have every quaffed dickhead with a mic and a cameraman run amok through a scene of tragedy looking for that ellusive "exclusive" interview.

There are dozens of people deeply affected by this and I really do not think that a massed pack of sensational seeking press is doing anything to help those people.

[MarineHawk]

Originally Posted by Hmmm3

They have been showing the home on FoxNews. It's a neatly kept, trim townhome, seemingly in a well-kept neighborhood. His parents live there .. while he was at VT he was in a dorm. His sister graduated from Princeton. Knowing many Asian people here, I have no doubt that his parents were very hard working, honorable people. They run a drycleaning business in their town. Academics play a big part in Asian family life, having their children strive in education. (At least, that is what I witness in my area). Perhaps it was more than this guy could take .. or, was pushed so hard in academics that his behavior went unnoticed. The Chicago Tribune has stated that in the killer's note, he expressed hatred towards the 'rich kids'. He obviously had many issues and a lot of hatred. So many ruined lives now.

Reminds me of the Far Side comic where the guy is lying on the couch in the psychiatrist's office and the psychiatrist writes on his notepad simply: "Just plain nuts."

There's no need to look further. He committed mass murder for no reason because he was CRAZY.

[h2co-pilot]

Some stuff:

Links to students Myspace pages/ Blogs etc

Shooters Plays he wrote-

Mr. McBeef wtf

Mr. Brownstone

From the student that published the plays online-

What happened yesterday:

When I first heard about the multiple shootings at Virginia Tech yesterday, my first thought was about my friends, and my second thought was "I bet it was Seung Cho."

Cho was in my playwriting class last fall, and nobody seemed to think much of him at first. He would sit by himself whenever possible, and didn't like talking to anyone. I don't think I've ever actually heard his voice before. He was just so quiet and kept to himself. Looking back, he fit the exact stereotype of what one would typically think of as a "school shooter" ? a loner, obsessed with violence, and serious personal problems. Some of us in class tried to talk to him to be nice and get him out of his shell, but he refused talking to anyone. It was like he didn't want to be friends with anybody. One friend of mine tried to offer him some Halloween candy that she still had, but he slowly shook his head, refusing it. He just came to class every day and submitted his work on time, as I understand it.

A major part of the playwriting class was peer reviews. We would write one-act plays and submit them to an online repository called Blackboard for everyone in the class to read and comment about in class the next day. Typically, the students give their opinions about the plays and suggest ways to make it better, the professor gives his insights, then asks the author to comment about the play in class.

When we read Cho's plays, it was like something out of a nightmare. The plays had really twisted, macabre violence that used weapons I wouldn't have even thought of. Before Cho got to class that day, we students were talking to each other with serious worry about whether he could be a school shooter. I was even thinking of scenarios of what I would do in case he did come in with a gun, I was that freaked out about him. When the students gave reviews of his play in class, we were very careful with our words in case he decided to snap. Even the professor didn't pressure him to give closing comments.

After hearing about the mass shootings, I sent one of my friends a Facebook message asking him if he knew anything about Seung Cho and if he could have been involved. He replied: "dude that's EXACTLY what I was thinking! No, I haven't heard anything, but seriously, that was the first thing I thought when I heard he was Asian."

While I "knew" Cho, I always wished there was something I could do for him, but I couldn't think of anything. As far as notifying authorities, there isn't (to my knowledge) any system set up that lets people say "Hey! This guy has some issues! Maybe you should look into this guy!" If there were, I definitely would have tried to get the kid some help. I think that could have had a good chance of averting yesterday's tragedy more than anything.

While I was hesitant at first to release these plays (because I didn't know if there are laws against it), I had to put myself in the shoes of the average person researching this situation. I'd want to know everything I could about the killer to figure out what could drive a person to do something like this and hopefully prevent it in the future. Also, I hope this might help people start caring about others more no matter how weird they might seem, because if this was some kind of cry for attention, then he should have gotten it a long time ago.

As far as the victims go, as I was heading to bed last night, I heard that my good friend Stack (Ryan Clark) was one of the first confirmed dead. I didn't want to believe that I'd never get to talk to him again, and all I could think about was how much I could tell him how much his friendship meant to me. During my junior year, Ryan, another friend and I used to get breakfast on Tuesdays and Thursdays at Shultz Dining Hall, one of the cafeterias on campus, and it was always the highlight of my day. He could talk forever it seemed and always made us laugh. He was a good friend, not just to me, but to a lot of people, and I'll miss him a lot.

[K9sH3]

I watched as VATech held their candle light cermony tonight, Man I wish I wouldn't watch the news.. I work with kids everyday and I just think of what it must be like to be that parent that has to get the call...That is has to be numbing to the soul.
Like most teachers ( which I am not a school teacher) I try to teach the kids right from wrong and how to be a good person.. As we watched on Monday at the Sk8 park, the kids were looking at me for some answers. I saw in thier eyes the true meaning of being kids. And I couldn't explain such an horrific act by another human. I am sure Thursday when I get back I will be able to talk some more with them.

[Scouts Out]

I have just stopped watching the news, it is so depressing. I have experienced the suicide bombers, the terrorist, being shot at, rocketed, mortored, lost friends over seas. This being close to home, close to the age of my kids... that sad.

[Huck BB62]

Hey, I got it! They should outlaw chains!

On a serious note, people really need to start being aware of their surroundings. If that guy was on the forum here, he'd been ratted out fifteen ways to hell and back (cause nobody'd be worried about huwtin' his wittle feewin's) or looking racists.

I'd also like for some common sense gun store owners to ask questions and quit worrying about making a buck so badly. I'm dead serious, I was standing in the gun store checkin' out a new Kimber and the lunkhead salesman was pumpin' info to this gang banger nutjob about why this gun is better than this one etc. When the banger left, I gave the counter guy an earful and asked him if he'd SERIOUSLY SELL A GUN TO THAT guy!

Same thing about this slaughterhouse turd. No idle chit chat about the gun's useage? No questions about training etc.? There's a sign on the wall "We reserve the right to sell a gun to anyone and not to just anyone!" I guarantee you that five minutes of conversation with someone with this mentality would more than trigger an alarm.

First question: Why would anyone in their right mind sell a gun to someone that lives on campus? Ding frickin' ding ding ding.

I'm not a gun control guy. I shoot almost every day. What I'm in favor of is a little common sense.

Oh, by the way, when a terrorist or bad guy starts lining you up for slaughter, fight back. Get together and attack. He's not trained, somebody's getting through. It's a lot better than being popped like a pig in a sausage factory.

The massive news coverage on this is surely training the next psycho to do a better job. The good news is that he DID use a gun. Had he been truly wicked, he'd done a bomb during those huge rallies they have. I know that sounds morbid but look around us. Look at Iraq. I'm glad the guy was a dumbass and used a gun instead of a bomb, or else he'd have killed hundreds.

[deserth3]

Originally Posted by Huck BB62

Hey, I got it! They should outlaw chains!

On a serious note, people really need to start being aware of their surroundings. If that guy was on the forum here, he'd been ratted out fifteen ways to hell and back (cause nobody'd be worried about huwtin' his wittle feewin's) or looking racists.

I'd also like for some common sense gun store owners to ask questions and quit worrying about making a buck so badly. I'm dead serious, I was standing in the gun store checkin' out a new Kimber and the lunkhead salesman was pumpin' info to this gang banger nutjob about why this gun is better than this one etc. When the banger left, I gave the counter guy an earful and asked him if he'd SERIOUSLY SELL A GUN TO THAT guy!

Same thing about this slaughterhouse turd. No idle chit chat about the gun's useage? No questions about training etc.? There's a sign on the wall "We reserve the right to sell a gun to anyone and not to just anyone!" I guarantee you that five minutes of conversation with someone with this mentality would more than trigger an alarm.

First question: Why would anyone in their right mind sell a gun to someone that lives on campus? Ding frickin' ding ding ding.

I'm not a gun control guy. I shoot almost every day. What I'm in favor of is a little common sense.

Oh, by the way, when a terrorist or bad guy starts lining you up for slaughter, fight back. Get together and attack. He's not trained, somebody's getting through. It's a lot better than being popped like a pig in a sausage factory.

The massive news coverage on this is surely training the next psycho to do a better job. The good news is that he DID use a gun. Had he been truly wicked, he'd done a bomb during those huge rallies they have. I know that sounds morbid but look around us. Look at Iraq. I'm glad the guy was a dumbass and used a gun instead of a bomb, or else he'd have killed hundreds.

I agree. If half the people who got killed started throughing books, pens, cell phones, backpacks, chairs or even desk at this kid a lot more of them wouuld have lived. It's difficult to aim a gun if all sort of stuff is flying at you.
We are teaching our kids the wrong thing in school. Instead of sitting there and being passive they should teach them how to defened themselves and ask questions.

[K9sH3]

Originally Posted by deserth3

I agree. If half the people who got killed started throughing books, pens, cell phones, backpacks, chairs or even desk at this kid a lot more of them wouuld have lived. It's difficult to aim a gun if all sort of stuff is flying at you.
We are teaching our kids the wrong thing in school. Instead of sitting there and being passive they should teach them how to defened themselves and ask questions.

[KenP]

Originally Posted by Huck BB62

First question: Why would anyone in their right mind sell a gun to someone that lives on campus? Ding frickin' ding ding ding.

His ID had his parent's address.

Some in the news are making it sound as if you can just walk in and get a gun in Virginia without any checks done. That's not true. You do have a background check done whether the gun is purchased at a store or a gun show.

There's no need for armchair quaterbacking here.

No one could expect ANY gun store owner to research the killer's school writings or history. That's just silly.

The murderer wasn't ever convicted of anything. Nothing would show up on his background check.

[MarineHawk]

Originally Posted by KenP

No one could expect ANY gun store owner to research the killer's school writings or history. That's just silly.

The murderer wasn't ever convicted of anything. Nothing would show up on his background check.

But he was Asian, just like Ghengis Khan. I'm just saying.

[KenP]

Originally Posted by MarineHawk

But he was Asian, just like Ghengis Khan. I'm just saying.

Just a joke. Dennis knows we love him.

[BlueTJCO]

Originally Posted by deserth3

I agree. If half the people who got killed started throughing books, pens, cell phones, backpacks, chairs or even desk at this kid a lot more of them wouuld have lived. It's difficult to aim a gun if all sort of stuff is flying at you.
We are teaching our kids the wrong thing in school. Instead of sitting there and being passive they should teach them how to defened themselves and ask questions.

I thought the same thing..........

except that is real easy to say sitting here entering IP Addresses into computers here in my office. I bet if someone started popping off with two handguns in the office next to me it would be a whole different story...........but I dont know.

I'd love to say I'd be that one "lucky" guy that stopped the shooter.....but I'm guessing under the circumstances that would be much easier said then done.........

[MarineHawk]

Originally Posted by Mooncricket

I'd love to say I'd be that one "lucky" guy that stopped the shooter.....but I'm guessing under the circumstances that would be much easier said then done.........

I'd like to say the same thing. Of course, if I saved the 30 people from dying, no one would ever know that. Instead, you'd see the Reuters and ABC story about how some gun-crazed guy who violated a Gun Free School Zone by carrying a concealed handgun into a classroom violently shot another crazy gun nut and then went to jail.

[MarineHawk]

A little dated, but still valid:

Originally Posted by Prof. John Lott

Hardly mentioned in the massive news coverage of the school-related shootings during the past year is how they ended. Two of the four shootings were stopped by a citizen displaying a gun. In the October 1997 shooting spree at a high school in Pearl, Miss., which left two students dead, an assistant principal retrieved a gun from his car and physically immobilized the shooter while waiting for the police.

More recently, the school-related shooting in Edinboro, Pa., which left one teacher dead, was stopped only after a bystander pointed a shotgun at the shooter when he started to reload his gun. The police did not arrive for another 10 minutes.
Who knows how many lives were saved by these prompt responses?
Anecdotal stories are not sufficient to resolve this debate. Together with my colleague William Landes, I have compiled data on all the multiple-victim public shootings occurring in the U.S. from 1977 to 1995. Included were incidents where at least two people were killed or injured in a public place; to focus on the type of shooting seen in the Ferguson rampage, we excluded gang wars or shootings that were the byproduct of another crime, such as robbery. The U.S. averaged 21 such shootings annually, with an average of 1.8 people killed and 2.7 wounded in each one.
We examined a range of different gun laws, such as waiting periods as well as methods of deterrence, such as the death penalty. However, only one policy was found to reduce deaths and injuries from these shootings: allowing law-abiding citizens to carry concealed handguns. The effect of "shall-issue" concealed handgun laws, which give adults the right to carry concealed handguns if they do not have a criminal record or a history of significant mental illness, was dramatic. Thirty-one states now have such laws. When states passed them during the 19 years we studied, the number of multiple-victim public shootings declined by 84%. Deaths from these shootings plummeted on average by 90%, injuries by 82%. Higher arrest rates and increased use of the death penalty slightly reduced the incidence of these events, but we could not conclusively determine such an effect.

http://www.junkscience.com/news2/lott2.html

Another one:

Originally Posted by Massad Ayoob

A terrorist opens fire at a crowded bus stop; a passing Israeli motorist draws his 9mm pistol and cuts him down. A late-arriving security man with an M-16 hoses the twitching terrorist just to make sure.

Another terrorist attempts to trigger an explosive device in a public place. An Israeli housewife draws her pistol and shoots him dead before he can detonate the bomb. The would-be martyr dies alone.
A third terrorist opens fire with an automatic weapon in an Israeli school. What could have been a mass murder on the scale of Columbine or greater is limited to a very short casualty list when Israeli parents and grandparents, who have provided volunteer armed security after receiving state training, open fire and kill him with their concealed pistols.

Note that in each of these episodes, it was an armed citizen who stopped the terror. Not a soldier. Not a security guard. Not a police officer. Just as wolves do not try to seize a lamb under the nose of the sheepdog, terrorists do not strike where armed protectors are known to be present. They scout the turf and select their victims more carefully than that.

http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob81.html

[Huck BB62]

Originally Posted by KenP

His ID had his parent's address.

Some in the news are making it sound as if you can just walk in and get a gun in Virginia without any checks done. That's not true. You do have a background check done whether the gun is purchased at a store or a gun show.

There's no need for armchair quaterbacking here.

No one could expect ANY gun store owner to research the killer's school writings or history. That's just silly.

The murderer wasn't ever convicted of anything. Nothing would show up on his background check.

Sounds like a nice cop-out. All I'm saying is there's a total lack of common sense. There's been a lot of (well, he didn't have a record so...) At THAT PARTICULAR STORE there's been five murders committed with weapons sold from there.

If we intend to maintain our right to bear arms, and that's my point here, we need and must do more than say things like "He didn't have a record". When a quiet sullen guy shows up with no buddies to buy a gun and you just sell it to him, dontcha think that a little talking may be in order? We've got to get smart, or we're going to get legislated out of existance.

It's more than apparent that EVERY SINGLE PERSON that came into contact with this nut had alarms going off in every brain cell that he wasn't right in the head.

About the Monday morning quarter backing remark: Yeah, I get to do that, and you should too because this is most friggin' certainly going to affect you and I. Next time you're at the gun counter and you see a questionable person buying a gun, it's certainly within your rights to talk to him. Why? Because you, as a salesmen of weapons, will be under the microscope and may lose your business and go to jail.

Quick questions like "What kind of shooting do you like to do?" "Where do you practice?" "This hollow point ammo is kind of expensive for plinkin' ain't it?" "Where do you store your guns? Would you like to see our safes?"

I guarantee you that he'd stumble on one or more of those questions enough to cause concern.

[MarineHawk]

Originally Posted by Huck BB62

First question: Why would anyone in their right mind sell a gun to someone that lives on campus? Ding frickin' ding ding ding.

Second question: Why the fcuk not?

When I was in college in the 1980s living on campus, I bought a shotgun, which is about as deadly as you can get. I kept it at my brother's house. I used it to shoot doves, quail, and clay pidgeons.

It was stupid for them not to let me keep it in my dorm room. In some countries, like Switzerland, college-aged male ADULTS are in the militia and required to have their issued semi-auto rifle in their dwellings whether on campus or not. I bet you they don't have a lot of mass shootings on campus in Switzerland (which has the lowest violent crime rate in the Western world).