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Go Back   Hummer Forums by Elcova > ETC. Forums > Other Off-Roading Vehicles

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  #21  
Old 02-12-2003, 02:40 PM
JMoore JMoore is offline
 
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The break over test didn't seem to fair with the Toyota running with side steps and them conviently removed on the H2... Also the G Wagon is equiped with 3 lockers, none looked engaged.

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  #22  
Old 02-12-2003, 03:39 PM
muskyman muskyman is offline
 
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see thats the thing with editorial rights , you can portray anything you want to see.

thats how it works.

I have been to the hummer prooving ground in south bend and with the exception of the modified verticle wall they have now seamed to put a wood board on the lip I have driven those trails and test obstacles. and I cant think of any that my stock disco could not do other then the progressive sand trenches...funny they dident show the H2 there?

to bad that the drivers in all the other vehicles never heard of MOMENTUM!

also kinda funny on that one hill where only the rear wheel on the Gwagon was turning? the Gwagon has front rear and center selectable lockers...driver must not have known that? or they just meant to skew the results.

MM

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  #23  
Old 02-12-2003, 05:36 PM
Steve R Steve R is offline
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Musky,

About the B-box's 3 lockers, 2 of them are the front & rear diff-locks. I'm guessing the 3rd is when the transfer case locks and sends power to front & rear axles???? just curious if there is some other mechanical thing.

As far as the video....yeah, they show what they want. About the only thing that seems totally legit is the part where the H2 clears that big concrete step. I'm pretty sure all the other SUV's would damage their front bumpers and general area. You've got to admit that this is one area the steep approach angle and large tires come into play. Course....any modified rig can be made to do that...but still.
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  #24  
Old 02-12-2003, 05:54 PM
JMoore JMoore is offline
 
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Steve,

The third is the transfer case. I'm not sure if in a GWagon it's electrical or mechanical or a combination of the two. In regards to the approach angle, most serious Land rover guys trim the airdam to increase the angle.

-John

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  #25  
Old 02-12-2003, 06:26 PM
muskyman muskyman is offline
 
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steve,

the Gwagon does have three lockers , front &rear axle and center diff.

well the claimed 20" ledge climb is just warmed over from the H1...that ledge sure dosent look 20" to me.

do you know where that spec came from?

the hummer was designed to fight in city street across the pond. and for security reasons building over there are often ringed with 18" barrier made of concrete. So the Military went over that to 20" and wrote it into the original design requirments.

did you happen to notice there was no comparison of break-over angle in that video? Break-over angle is a key factor in real off-road situations even more then approach and departure angles but yet no mention?

I'll bet you can guess why

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  #26  
Old 02-12-2003, 06:32 PM
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The current info on Hummer.com says the H1 is capable of 22" step and 30" fording depth, while the H2 is capable of 16" step and 20" fording depth.
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  #27  
Old 02-12-2003, 06:41 PM
Steve R Steve R is offline
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Lack of break-over angle is my biggest complaint with the H2. I won't kid you....when I first saw the H2 I immediately felt that the "skirt" should be lifted higher off the ground!

My buddy has a Toyota Tacoma that has more clearance under the body! not much...but a bit more. The only thing I can say is that our entire belly is protected...whereas other vehicles still have their transfer case, drive-shaft and other such things hanging out.

If you look at the H2, you will notice they did what they could to keep the wheelbase from getting too long: the passenger compartment is pushed way way forward, the rear seating offers juuuuuust enough leg room for passengers, and the cargo area isn't all that long either. You have to figure, if you want a sharp approach and departure angle, then all you have left to work with is the area between front & rear axles....they went with a measurement that was about as long as they reasonably could get away with.

I'm sure they could have pulled the front & rear axles tighter together...but then our butt would hang-out and our front would also extend further forwards (like a disco). It's sacrifices one way or another!

I'm sure you'll be very interested with what it being designed as an "H4"...this vehicle is based on the size of a D90, but will feature gear-driven hubs, CTIS and some huge suspension travel. It's still in design phase...but this vehicle will lack the cargo room and bring to us a true all-offroader. Or in your case, something you don't have to modify as much.

When you get your H2, what do you plan/anticipate doing to deal with getting more clearance. I assume an SFA is in the line of thought...but what else comes to mind?
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  #28  
Old 02-12-2003, 11:03 PM
brianfriend brianfriend is offline
 
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Just to let you all know ahead of time I am a Rover guy.

That video was simply marketing. I could have driven every one of those vehicle through that course.

To point out a few things:

Range Rover...was not raised up
g wagon...lockers not engaged.
The water crossing...why didn't they how the vehicles actually attempting it. I bet most would have been fine. The rr and discovery and jeep I am fairly sure.

It was a good comercial as long as you know it was just a comercial.

As far as TRUE off roading ability of each of those vehicles shown the G-Wagon would have been the best then the RR and Discover, Jeep and somewhear down the line the h2 would be there.

Here is a question for you guys. Where are the pictures of all the steller off roading that YOU Guys have done? Maybe I just didn't see them yet but come on over and take a look at some of the pictures on the discoweb.org site.

BTW...Im in colorado springs and I off road lots. If anyone is interested in hitting some trails let me know. I don't have any bias towards the vehicles I wheel with, every one has there own preferences, I just like to wheel.

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  #30  
Old 02-13-2003, 12:04 AM
brianfriend brianfriend is offline
 
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Hey Cohummerowner, (jeeze thats a long name to type)

I am currently broken but I am making progress with the truck. I should be ready to be out on the trails again by the end of this month or beginning of next. I can usually go on wed and up untill my last trip (indepedance--there is a write up on discoweb.org of that trip) I wheeled every sunday. My truck is drivable now but I have the fendor off to pound back out some dents and I had to pound the headlight holder thingy back into place. My cv are broken and wife has put a kabash on truck money otherwise I would be back up ad running again. drop me an e-mail

blfsales@cs.com

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  #31  
Old 02-13-2003, 12:21 AM
Firebreather Firebreather is offline
 
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ohhhhhhh K brian....the G-Wagon, then the RR, then the Disco, then the Grand Cherokee, then the Lexus, then somewhere way down the list is the H2 in terms of off-road capability!??

thats the funniest post i have ever read! thanks for the laugh!

as a former Ranger Rover, Disco and Grand Cherokee owner, i completely disagree with you. if you were even serious. your post was so preposterous, i dont think you were...perhaps u are just pulling the H2 owners' chain a little...

i dont own a H2...hope to pick up an 04...but i am a self-professed lover of the Range Rover. but i can tell you the Discovery as sold in completely stock form sucks. The tires are horrible. the 4wd system doesnt work nearly as well as the RR. The Grand Cherokee is even worse. as for the RR, it was darn near impossible to get stuck. i wish they would have kept it like it was ie real bumpers, SFA, steel frame etc...the new one is anything but what a RR has been about for the last 40 years..its a Lexus.

i understand why the Rover and Jeep guys have such a hard time accepting the H2 but my goodness! to place it below theDisco, GC and Lexus in stock form is just a little too much! There is definitely some argument to be made re the G wagon and RR but the others? come on!

and i think that video was true. no deception. no decks stacked in favor of any truck. the H2 is just better in stock form.

its kind of like watching the vette and f body crowd say that they can make their cars go faster than a Viper...there is no doubt about it. but in stock form the Viper is faster and whatever u can do to a vette or camaro i can do to a Viper and see more gains from it.

once u start talking about modding these trucks, all bets are off. the facts are simple. in stock form there are only a handful of dedicated specialty vehicles that will out wheel the H2... G-wagon (perhaps)...Rubicon (maybe...new RR (probably not)...Disco (no way)...Jeep GC (absolutely not)...H1 (in some things but not others) face it the H2 is about the best blend between extreme off-road vehicle and family truck there is. without exception. IMHO...of course!

now let me go watch that video again.
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  #32  
Old 02-13-2003, 12:39 AM
brianfriend brianfriend is offline
 
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firebreather,

Good idea to watch the video again. Pay attention to how the other vehicles are driven. Of course they didn't do as well.

I didn't say the h2 was the worst all I said was this is the order that I think they would fall in. gwagon, rr, disco, jeep and I stand behind that. I don't have much experience with the other vehicles because I have no interest in them.

I don't have access to a stock g, or jeep but I could get access to a stock disco 2 and I am willing to bet a 12 pack that I could outwheel a h2 with it. I can't use my own for this challange because it is far from stock now.

Anyone in? This would be kind of fun.

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  #33  
Old 02-13-2003, 12:48 AM
Firebreather Firebreather is offline
 
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brian:

i was just playing about the video being completely unbiased. but with all due respect, u are out of your mind!

the stock tires on a Disco might as well be whitewalls...

strictly stock vs. stock, i really dont think there is any comparison. look at the numbers..approach and departure angles...clearance...water fording...power...etc...lockers...adjustable suspension...etc...

i dont think there is any argument that the Disco can be modded to be a much better truck...

but u have to concede at least on the Jeep...a Grand Cherokee? its a station wagon! i could see an argument if it was a wrangler...

oh and i forgot the Defender (a definite possibility)
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  #34  
Old 02-13-2003, 01:21 AM
brianfriend brianfriend is offline
 
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Heres what we need to do. We need to round up a couple of disco2 guys and a couple of h2 guys and hit a trail. If I am wrong I will admit it.

Don't rely too much on publishe numbers because that is all they are, numbers. The track that the video was taped on was designed to show the strengths of the h2, just as land rover tracks are designed to show the strengths of Land Rover. The real test would be out on a trail somewhere. The one variable that could not be acounted for is drivers skill. So the contest needs to have stock vehicles and drivers with roughtly the same experience level.

Any one in? 12 pack riding on it and a bit of humility.

brian

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  #35  
Old 02-13-2003, 01:44 AM
Firebreather Firebreather is offline
 
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i agree. but from what i have seen from the magazine tests...not Hummer Mag or Jeep Mag or Rover Mag but the "independent" mags...seem to all include that the H2 is superior to just about anything out there except a few niche vehicles.

some even have found the H2 is better than the H1.

Brian:

tell me the truth...u cant be a fan of those Goodyear wrangler HRs that come stock on the Disco right?

when i had mine, it was a 2001, i drove it out in my parents pasture on flat land in a little bit of mud and the damn thing got stuck...then after my dad pulled me out, i slid all around on the concrete as it couldnt gain any traction or get rid of the mud in the treads. it was horrible. i tries to go up a mild embankment to avoid traffic and the damn tires slid backwards down the hill...the most embarassing thing ever as i had to get back in line in traffic...conversely the Range Rover used to climb up that embankment with ease....

Signed...not a Fan of the Disco but a Range Rover lover...
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  #36  
Old 02-13-2003, 01:58 AM
brianfriend brianfriend is offline
 
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Firebreather,

Yeah, I don't like them much either. They are fine for street but not too good for off road. Throw some good meats on there and it's a whole new game.

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  #37  
Old 02-13-2003, 02:58 AM
brianfriend brianfriend is offline
 
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Here is a link to the independance trail on discoweb. The red discovery is my truck. There are pictures below the write up. Never posted a link before so I hope it works.
http://www.discoweb.org/independencetrail.htm

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  #38  
Old 02-13-2003, 03:29 AM
HeeHaw HeeHaw is offline
 
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MUSKY give me a break!!! You're the type of guy that ALWAYS has to be right! ALWAYS has to be first! ALWAYS has to be on TOP! PATHETIC!!!!

Can't you even admit that a STOCK H2 kicked all their asses? HELL NO. You come up with a lame excuse and I have seen this over and over from you. I know they are built in defense Mechanisms.

The H2 is NOT the greatest 4x4 on the planet. It is pretty dam good for a STOCK vehicle and is probably better than any one of those shown in the video. Especially the DISCO!!!!!

Don't forget, I owned one for three years. I know what they will do.

You are simply a person who will always come up with an excuse for this thing or the other. Know your type.

GO HOME!

HeeeeeeeeHawwwwwwwwwww

[This message was edited by HeeHaw on February 12, 2003 at 10:04 PM.]
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  #39  
Old 02-13-2003, 04:15 AM
Firebreather Firebreather is offline
 
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brian:

i would take you up on your challenge but for 2 facts: 1. i dont own an H2 and 2. i dont live in Colorado. otherwise, id be right there!

the reading on the discoboard was funny. i saw my name mentioned a few times. u guys look just as silly as we do to an outsider. do u not realize what u drive? a freaking Discovery! its just about the biggest chick SUV in the world! i think half of all college girls who own an suv drive a disco. and of course then it becomes the proverbial "soccer mom" vehicle. but u guys make it out to be the ultimate 4x4. ROTFLMAO!!!

oh wait i forgot...the H2 is the poser vehicle...not the Disco...right? lol! and tell all those guys and gals on the disco board to come get some if they want it. educate me please. even though ive owned a Disco and 2 Range Rovers, i know nothing about them. i did learn one thing over on your board, that 3 H2s flipped over on the LR course...that even a freelander can make it over! wow! that just about makes the H2 the worst 4x4 there is! OMG! u guys are a riot!

and hey that was an awesome story about the independence trail. great job on making it out. u do realize the H2 would have just driven right up and had u home by 6:30 right?
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  #40  
Old 02-13-2003, 05:39 AM
HeeHaw HeeHaw is offline
 
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Fire 1

DISCO -0

ROTFLOL..................

HeeeeeeeeHawwwwwwwwwww
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