Which Supercharger should I go with? [Archive]

H2_SUT_SC

03-11-2004, 05:22 PM

Who here has a SC on their H2 and what were your dyno #'s.

It sounds like Whipple may have the most experience with them so far.

I plan on throwing one on my SUT as soon as I get it and would like to know what option would be the best.

Also has anyone used Xtreme Motorsports? I see they have a custom muffler and other parts. I e-mailed them w/ no response.

H2_SUT_SC

03-11-2004, 05:22 PM

H2_SUT_SC

03-11-2004, 05:22 PM

CRUZMISL

03-11-2004, 05:58 PM

That's a good question. Definitely a whipple or Magnuson is the way to go. Anyway, the most power will be had with the Mag but it is also intercooled so that's not a fair comparison. The Mag also uses new injectors/reprogrammed ecm to match fuel flow whereas the whipple uses piggy back ecm and injectors to get the job done. Problem is the intake was never designed to have fuel flow through it so it's not the best plan. The Mag also offers a warranty on all driveline components and the whipple only on the charger itself.

THe whipple is cheaper, easier to install and quieter though. The whipple coupled with the properly sized injectors and custom ecm program is quite a package but I am having a tough time deciding myself. While the added cost of the Mag is a deterrent the extended warranty is not. Dynotech Engineering and Lingenfelter are less than 3 hours from me. DTE uses the Whipple and Ling uses the Mag. Ling is about $1500 more.....

If I get one I'm getting a personalized plate
BLOWN H2 http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Joe

Dan

03-11-2004, 06:18 PM

Check out the Kenne Bell too:

www.kennebell.net (http://www.kennebell.net)

Welcome to the "Waiting for the SUT Club"! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

H2_SUT_SC

03-11-2004, 06:45 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by CRUZMISL:
That's a good question. Definitely a whipple or Magnuson is the way to go. Anyway, the most power will be had with the Mag but it is also intercooled so that's not a fair comparison. The Mag also uses new injectors/reprogrammed ecm to match fuel flow whereas the whipple uses piggy back ecm and injectors to get the job done. Problem is the intake was never designed to have fuel flow through it so it's not the best plan. The Mag also offers a warranty on all driveline components and the whipple only on the charger itself.

THe whipple is cheaper, easier to install and quieter though. The whipple coupled with the properly sized injectors and custom ecm program is quite a package but I am having a tough time deciding myself. While the added cost of the Mag is a deterrent the extended warranty is not. Dynotech Engineering and Lingenfelter are less than 3 hours from me. DTE uses the Whipple and Ling uses the Mag. Ling is about $1500 more.....

If I get one I'm getting a personalized plate
BLOWN H2 http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Joe <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, I just saw the DTE site for the first time. Pretty sweet especially the 6.8L Brute 409. That's actually a cheap price at $15k to get 557HP. www.terminator427.com (http://www.terminator427.com) charges like $25k for the same thing. I'd be tempted to do this.

H2_SUT_SC

03-11-2004, 07:44 PM

Well...I got my answer. Called my local H2 dealer and they now install SC's. They said they were doing Whipples but were having too many problems and have since switched to Magnusson so that's the way I'm going. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

CRUZMISL

03-11-2004, 08:11 PM

THe problems with the Whipple's is that they use the piggy back ecm and injector's. The supercharger itself is very reliable. Also please remember that the dealers get the Mag's through their network which in turn means more profit for them. It's nit like it really matters because it's not a poor choice.
Joe

H2_SUT_SC

03-11-2004, 08:19 PM

Very true. I was just glad they said they were carrying Magna after reading your post. Plus now it's under warranty and such. They said it was $8k for the polished Magna, Corsa exhaust and AirRaid intake - installed. I figure that's not that bad.

What HP est would that be? 450-475?

HGW

03-11-2004, 10:40 PM

Good choice. The MC runs on 5-6 pounds of boost and is a good chouce for every day driving--the others produce the Horse Power but are really hard to keep tuned. Please let me know ho much your dealer is charging---I am doing mine myself---in my shop now.

PS---If you get the polished one--about $700 more, the blower is polished but the manifold is not. Mag produced the first 1000 with polished manifolds, so there are a lot of pics on the net showing a fully polished unit. Spoke at length with a VP of MC'c at the SEMA show last November.

CRUZMISL

03-11-2004, 11:08 PM

I'd venture to say you'd make 475 or so give or take 10 but that's not what you'll have the the wheels. The drivelines of these trucks are so power hungry you'll be lucky to manage 350 at the wheels. While this doesn't sound too exciting you also have to realize these things dyno at about 220HP stock......that's a sad number.

In all honesty though, I'd probably choose somewhere other than the dealer to get it put on. What you really need is someone that can dyno tune your pcm rather than flash a generic program. This will yield the highest HP with the least trouble with detonation and knock retard. Every motor is different even though they all use the same parts. JMHO.

Let us know how you make out.

JOe

PS. The tranny is supposed to be the big weak link in this whole equation. I don't know if there is any truth to that though.

HGW

03-11-2004, 11:58 PM

True on the tranny. I spoke to the guys at LPE---I would suggest at least a new torqe converter. I like the Wang, so does LPE.

CRUZMISL

03-12-2004, 01:46 AM

My wife likes the Wang....I don't http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Ling suggests upgrading the trans, Dynotech doesn't. DTE does suggest adding a shift kit and said everything should be fine. For me I'd add the shift kit and wait until it blows up http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Joe

HGW

03-12-2004, 02:22 AM

The converter is actually a Yank, not a Wang--and is for better power tranfer, you now you can Yank your Wang.

You asked for opinions.

LPE knows their stuff---they have proven so all over the country.

CRUZMISL

03-12-2004, 02:31 AM

Oh Yank. I had a Yank 3500 stall in my Vette. It was good but had an annoying vibration at about 2000rpm. No doubt Lingenfelter is one of the best though. Actually the guy that owns DTE was Lingenfelter's engine builder for years before he went out on his own to build CART engines or something then he opened up his own place. I bet the resale would be better with Lingenfelter's name behind the install. What do you think?
Joe

H2_SUT_SC

03-12-2004, 03:28 PM

If I lived anywhere close to IN or they had an LPE shop in Northern Cali I'd pay the $3k for the HD tranny upgrade. I figure once I blow it I'm going to have it trucked down there and have him swap it with the HD one.

Excuse my ignorance but what exactly will a shift kit or torque convertor do? I thought the CPU reprogram would change the shift limits.

Would any of those two options assist with getting additional HP to the ground??

It\'s a Dry Heat

03-12-2004, 03:42 PM

have been collecting SC stuff as links. don't know how to get your email address.

H2 Bill

03-12-2004, 03:53 PM

H2_SUT_SC, I have the Whipple. Mine was one of the first of the Whipple installs and had to opt for the custom tuning. I have had the supercharger for over a year and a half with only one problem (had to replace the piggy back computer http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif) and it runs extremely strong. I don't have any dyno figures because no one around here has a 4wd dyno. Shawn at LAPD now has one but he is quite a distance for me to go. As far as the tranny goes, I, too, am driving it until it blows then I will go to the HD. If you go to a high stall torque converter you will definitely increase the stress on the drivetrain. I didn't do this for racing but for increased performance on what I feel is an underpowered vehicle. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

KenP

03-12-2004, 04:10 PM

Here is a pic of mine. It is LPE's install. Engine HP came in between 530-540 hp. The range is used because it was done on a chassis dyno and an estimate of driveline lose was used. I will have the exact dyno numbers soon as they were mailed a couple of days ago.

I have a 2800 Yank converter, cam pistons, ported heads, the works. My truck dynoed at a higher HP than the one tested by Motor Trend that ran 14.4 sec 1/4 times.

I have been running 9 lbs of boost. It will leave four black marks on the pavement.

I must warn you that it does create quite a racket when you mash the throttle. You cannot hear cell phone conversations.

If you have any questions I will be glad to help. My salesman's name at LPE is Tim. You can also speak to Ed. They both know me and are very friendly and helpful. Further, when I had some issues they sent a truck to pick it up, fixed it and shipped it back to me. All under warranty. The dealer even covered all recent repairs under warranty and said it was the best install they had ever seen.

H2_SUT_SC

03-12-2004, 04:11 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by It's a Dry Heat:
have been collecting SC stuff as links. don't know how to get your email address. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

mshetley@excite.com

I'd appreciate any links.

H2 Bill - If LAPD is in LA then I may have to pay him a visit as that is just a few hours south of me.

Also, can someone explain how exactly the torque convertor works and why it'd put extra stress on the driveline. I know nothing. LOL

Is this one of the larger H2 discussion forums? I posted on automotive forums and got 0 responses.

I'm a mod on a few other bodybuilding sites and I'm used to them flying.

H2_SUT_SC

03-12-2004, 04:15 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by KenP:
Here is a pic of mine. It is LPE's install. Engine HP came in between 530-540 hp. The range is used because it was done on a chassis dyno and an estimate of driveline lose was used. I will have the exact dyno numbers soon as they were mailed a couple of days ago.

I have a 2800 Yank converter, cam pistons, ported heads, the works. My truck dynoed at a higher HP than the one tested by Motor Trend that ran 14.4 sec 1/4 times.

I have been running 9 lbs of boost. It will leave four black marks on the pavement.

I must warn you that it does create quite a racket when you mash the throttle. You cannot hear cell phone conversations.

If you have any questions I will be glad to help. My salesman's name at LPE is Tim. You can also speak to Ed. They both know me and are very friendly and helpful. Further, when I had some issues they sent a truck to pick it up, fixed it and shipped it back to me. All under warranty. The dealer even covered all recent repairs under warranty and said it was the best install they had ever seen. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is so bad ass! That was my first idea was I was actually going to buy my SUT from a dealership in IN and have LPE pick it up and do all the work you had done. Basically the H2 package. But I called Jim at LPE and he said that they can't touch Cali vehicles due to our screwed up smog emmissions. I almost contemplated having it registered in Nevada just to get it done.

Did you get the HD tranny done? Also, are you able to run 9 lbs of boost because you upgraded the engine internals?

H2 Bill

03-12-2004, 04:23 PM

LAPD, I believe, is in the northern section of L.A.. I would love to go and use their dyno but I am in the busy part of my season at work so it is hard to get away.
Generally a higher stall torque converter does not engage your transmission until a higher rpm, thereby using more useable torque when you launch and shift gears. It usually gives more of a harsh shift though, in turn creating more wear and tear on the entire driveline. This is an extremely simplified description of how they work!

KenP

03-12-2004, 05:35 PM

H2SUTSC: This is THE H2 site. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Yes I had the trans done. It was really a no brainer. LPE highly recommended it due to the huge power increase and they warrant their work. With the SC alone a total HD rebuild is probably unnecessary.

Bill is right with his "simplified discription". Just imagine stepping on the gas and the truck not really moving until it gets to 2800rpm. The engine "flashes" to that rpm and away you go. Drop the clutch an a stick at 2800 and you will understand. Though it is not quite the same.

Around town the rig has very docile manners, except for the volumn and shift points http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif. You really would not notice a difference with the converter alone. I have had higher stall converters in other vehicles, but did not notice a harsher shift at first. However, usually when a converter is installed a shift kit or reprogramming is done to the trans so a different shift pattern will occur. You will then have a harsher shift.

With my truck the shifts occur at a much higher RPM than normal, then bang into the next gear. They do not "slide" gear to gear. But that is what I wanted. It can be programmed anyway you want it.

I am going out shortly. I will try to remember to jot down the shift points of normal around town driving for you and post later.

H2_SUT_SC

03-12-2004, 06:42 PM

That sounds similar to what I did with my Denali. I used the Predator programmer to recalibrate shifting points and the truck now waits longer to shift into the next gear. It helped out tremendously as before it shifted way too soon and I was constantly fighting the truck to downshift/upshift/downshift/upshift. Now it just cruises until it hits a higher rpm and then shifts.

However, I thought with the reprogram of the CPU when they install the Magna, that it would do the same thing.

KenP

03-12-2004, 08:26 PM

The local dealer just installed an Eaton. They did not reprogram the computer and I think it is a waste of money until then. The buyers had ridden in my truck just days before and could not wait for theirs. Oh, are they going to be disappointed. They can't even chirp the tires from a standstill.

Under mild acceleration I would go to 31-3500 for the 1-2 shift, 27-3k for the 2-3. That is accelerating with traffic.

H2_SUT_SC

03-12-2004, 08:46 PM

The dealer I spoke to said they do the computer reporgram along with the larger injectors with the Magna they install. They've also apparently been installing quite a few. At this point I think I'll just go that route even though I'd much prefer to have LPE do that package. If it wasn't for CA's damn emissions crap. You'd think Arnold being the Hummer man would nix all that.

KenP

03-12-2004, 08:49 PM

This dealer had not done one. This was right after the install. I hope they reprogrammed it for them.

Hummer Man

03-12-2004, 11:48 PM

This is one area where you cannot spend to much. BUY the very best unit you can afford or have custom made for you!

CRUZMISL

03-13-2004, 01:45 AM

The dealer will reprogram your puter with a generic file that comes with the kit. What you need to do is have someone monitor the air fuel ratio, timing and a host of other things to truly fine tune it to your vehicle. IF your dealer does this then you're very lucky.

As far as torque converters go, it is really an art. When you add a converter alone the shift points are actually softer which is why you need to add a shift kit. Also a shift kit will allow much less slipping between gear changes. This in turn lowers heat which is good for reliability. There is a balance though. I don't want to have to wear a neck collar when i drive http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

THe explanation of what a converter does is accuarte but simplified. The reason it adds more stress on the driveline is because it lays down huge power from a stop. WHen your trucj weighs 7000lbs and is 4 wheel drive you can start to see where really aggressive starts can cause problems. Now if you have the power Ken has who cares because you simply ignite the tires from a stop. That is about as cool as it gets.

Joe

CRUZMISL

03-13-2004, 08:50 PM

http://www.canamcaravan.com/dyno1.gif

H2_SUT_SC, her eis a dyno of a whipple done by DTE. Not too shabby at all.

Joe.

H2_SUT_SC

03-22-2004, 04:27 PM

Well guys I did it. Put my deposit down on the Stealth Grey (blue/grey) SUT on Sat. I get it on May 13th. I'm the first one to get it at a very large Cali dealership so I'm sure it will be one of the first in Cali. I'm having the Magna installed along with the Corsa exhaust and Volant cold air intake. I'm also going with these rims 20" with the 325/60/20 Nitto Terra Grapplers. They had the Nittos and the Toyos at the dealership and I thought the Nitto's looked sick in real life.

http://www.kmcwheels.com/kmcweb_images/ultimate_rides/big_images/ult_h2.jpg