Arianna Huffnpuff

She tries to tell Americans how to live :
http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=14906

Go back to Greece, beeyatch! :
http://www.ariannaonline.com/biography.html

[SOCAL XMER]

This has to be the biggest joke next to Al Sharpton.
How much does it cost to fuel her jet with JET A? oh yah she says it was going that way any way. What a freaken joke!!!!

future H2 or H3 owner

[\"Hummer\", heh, heh]

What does that have to do with the fact that SUV's disprotionately degrade the environment, road safety, and our reliance on Iraqi and Saudi oil?

Seriously, have you ever thought about the actual merits of the arguments against allowing the auto and fuel lobbiests to set their own standards in Washington, or the consequences of years of marketing SUV's as offroad vehicles to mall-bound suburbanite moms?

Or, like every other anti-anti-SUV guy out there, can you not get past the personalities behind celebrities making those arguments?

-Jason

[InfamousTeeDog]

Well well well, if its not our lovely uninvited guest Jason. Jason do you believe everything you read? You must have a lot of ulcers from wanting the world to be a perfect place. The world will finally deteriorate from people using up all the natural resources. This is not going to happen in any of our lifetimes. Did you realize that the majority of oil is used as a necessity to heat homes in states with cold climates. The HUMMER H2 is such a small percentage of the actual fleet that it really does not make a difference. Why don't you go lobby in the third world countries where they burn camel and cow **** just to make heat. Not to mention all the flatulent cows there are in the world contributing to the greenhouse gases. Just a little extra homework you can take home and work yourself into a dizzy mess with. No one cares about you Jason...get a life and get on with your own life so you can stop worrying about what other people do.

"Honesty is the best policy...unless you are really good at lying."

[SJ]

We rely on Iraqi oil? Your arguments and points are paper thin. Please tell me you can do better than this.

If you think that oil is a fossil fuel that is only found in the Middle East, then there's no hope for a level discussion. Not only are new oil reserves being found below the fossilized layers of the earth's crust, but vast supplies are being uncovered throughout Russia's Northern plateaus.

[This message was edited by SJ on February 21, 2003 at 02:46 PM.]

[\"Hummer\", heh, heh]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SJ:
We rely on Iraqi oil? Your arguments and points are paper thin. Please tell me you can do better than this.

Yes, in my home state, CA, 50% of our oil comes from Iraq and Saudi Arabia. Why do you say that is a "thin" argument?

SJ: "If you think that oil is a fossil fuel that is only found in the Middle East, then there's no hope for a level discussion. Not only are new oil reserves being found below the fossilized layers of the earth's crust, but vast supplies are being uncovered throughout Russia's Northern plateaus."

Who said "only"? It isn't just a question of how much reserve there is, it's a question of what alternatives there are, and how do they compare.

Western countries have a lot more CNG reserves than oil. Ironicly, the middle east has a lot of oil reserves, and less CNG. CNG produces almost zero emissions. Oh, and presently, CNG is also 30% cheaper, mile for mile than comparable gas powered vehicles.

With that in mind, explain to me why we are not only allowing, but encouraging auto and oil lobbiests to set their own fuel efficiency standards that are ruinous for our economy, safety, and security?

-Jason

[SJ]

You're splitting hairs on the topic to fit your comfort level. Again, I see the world from a perspective of some one that has lived in Europe and the USA. I've studied International Economics and understand the points as you state and as somewhat mirrored on http://www.oil.com/

My point is that you are "badgering" owners of SUVs/Trucks (since trucks are no different than SUVs for this line of discussion), for points that only hold merit from your perspective. You're again pointing to lobbyists and committees that do not speak for SUV/Truck owners.

Would I like a 6-passenger rig that gets 40mpg and pollutes less than a squirrel breaking wind? Damn straight, I'd jump for joy. Until that day comes, what do you propose we do as SUV/Truck owners? Shall we drive Honda Insights and stuff 2 people on the roof along with all our gear. Heck, I barely fit in a Cadillac and you want me to squeeze into something designed for the streets of Tokyo?

[Klaus]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Yes, in my home state, CA <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This explains the socialist viewpoint that others should have to "explain" or "justify" their choices to you.

Please go away and chain yourself to a tree.

This idiot is just another troll worthy of the Administrator's delete key. Remember, this is what his profile once said:

Member Profile for "Hummer", heh, heh

Date Registered: January 22, 2003
Status: H2 Veteran
Total Posts: 8
View Posts By this Member
Email: -
Home Page: -
Picture: -
Gender: -
Date of Birth: -
Location: -
Instant Messaging: -
Why did you join this forum?: to ridicule its members
Tools Add to Contacts
Start a Private Topic with "Hummer", heh, heh

[\"Hummer\", heh, heh]

"Well well well, if its not our lovely uninvited guest Jason."

Thank-you, nice to be appreciated.

"Jason do you believe everything you read? You must have a lot of ulcers from wanting the world to be a perfect place."

No ulcers, but I am guilty of not wanting to f@*k up the planet too much for the next generation.

"The world will finally deteriorate from people using up all the natural resources."

I never made that argument. But yes, natural resources are not limitless, and the better we make use of them the longer they will last.

"This is not going to happen in any of our lifetimes."

Yes -- "It's not my problem" -- the SUV owner's anthem.

"Did you realize that the majority of oil is used as a necessity to heat homes in states with cold climates."

So does that mean we should leave our heaters on full blast in the summer?

"The HUMMER H2 is such a small percentage of the actual fleet that it really does not make a difference."

You have it backwards. The US is the biggest consumer of energy. Well over half the crude oil we import goes to transportation. Civil automobile transportation is the biggest part of that segment. The fastest growing and most wastful piece of that segment is the SUV, of which the H2 is the worst.

-Jason

[Klaus]

I think this guy must be French! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[\"Hummer\", heh, heh]

SJ: "...You're again pointing to lobbyists and committees that do not speak for SUV/Truck owners."

SJ: "Would I like a 6-passenger rig that gets 40mpg and pollutes less than a squirrel breaking wind? Damn straight, I'd jump for joy. Until that day comes, what do you propose we do as SUV/Truck owners? Shall we drive Honda Insights and stuff 2 people on the roof along with all our gear. "

The problem is that it's unreasonable for me to argue that people should not buy SUV's because they are wasteful because in some cases (probably less than 10% of the time) the buyer actually does need the capability.

On the other hand, if you use that as an excuse to never raise the issues, then the lobbiests get to continue running amok, unopposed, exacerbating the problem.

Let's be reasonable here. I am not an irrational absolutist saying that SUV's should be banned.

In return, SUV owners need show a little less contempt for the issue. There are many ways to be helpful, even if you really do personally need an SUV.

-Jason

[SJ]

Jason:

I'll make one last effort on a civil note:

I want a Hybrid vehicle, but for use as my commuter car (as opposed to weekend and bad weather use). The only problem is that Ford is not releasing their Hybrid Escape to non-fleet customers until 2004. GM says they have at least 5 models in the works, so I'll have to hold my breath there.

I won't buy a Japanese nameplate, so what options am I left with? My H2 is driven 1 day to work and the rest of the time it is for slogging through the mountains and when snow is too deep for most cars. My daily driver is powered by a Ford V6 that gets an avg. of 22-24mpg and I don't know what emission standards it qualifies under, but it is a model year 2002, so hopefully the newer tech. lends to lower emissions (compared to older cars).

[Klaus]

Yep... He's French.

Look, you are a Socialist. You say you don't want to ban SUVs, but you want laws passed that will do the same thing.

You would have loved Hitler. I can just see the two of you riding off together in a Volkswagen (Peoples Car). Hitler thought he knew what was best for his people, just like you do.

[InfamousTeeDog]

[Quote by Jason] "You have it backwards. The US is the biggest consumer of energy. Well over half the crude oil we import goes to transportation. Civil automobile transportation is the biggest part of that segment. The fastest growing and most wastful piece of that segment is the SUV, of which the H2 is the worst."

No Jason like your head and your ASS...YOU have it backwards.

Based on an assumed 40,000 units sold, H2 represents less than 1 percent of GM’s total truck fleet fuel consumption and less than 0.6 percent of the total truck/car fleet fuel consumption. From an emissions standpoint, the H2 meets or exceeds all Federal emissions regulations for a truck in its class and is LEV compliant in the United States.

"Honesty is the best policy...unless you are really good at lying."

[\"Hummer\", heh, heh]

ATX: "Based on an assumed 40,000 units sold, H2 represents less than 1 percent of GM’s total truck fleet fuel consumption and less than 0.6 percent of the total truck/car fleet fuel consumption."

Even though from a consumption standpoint, the H2 is the worst of the worst, I'm not particularly interested in any single model -- rather the 90%+ of heavy SUV's in general people buy for reasons other than practical need.

ATX: "From an emissions standpoint, the H2 meets or exceeds all Federal emissions regulations for a truck in its class and is LEV compliant in the United States."

Ultra-large SUV's only meet current standards because of a loophole that allows heavy vehicles to be classified as light trucks. That law, passed long before the SUV era, was originally intended to exempt farmers' equipment from tighter emissions standards. The lawmakers did not predict that auto makers would provide a way for such a high percentage of consumers to subvert their intended emissions guidelines by pushing passenger cars over the 8500lb limit.

-Jason

[InfamousTeeDog]

Jason were you concieved with a weak sperm? Your Dad must have been jacking off and your Mom sat on it at the last minute. If you think you are such an authority in your smug little city in California, why don't you take your ass to Washington , DC and lobby Congress. Stop wasting our time because no one really cares what you think. Your not going to change anyone's mind about purchasing an H2 and your misinformed cause doesn't have as many supporters as you think. Go ride your bike without the seat attached with your boyfriend Hanz and preach your homosexual tendencies elsewhere.

"Honesty is the best policy...unless you are really good at lying."

[\"Hummer\", heh, heh]

You're wrong to underestimate Americans' values and sense of judgement and the level of personal sacrifice people would be willing to make.

You may think you're taking a hard line on Iraq by not buying French wine, but you're really just pulling your punches in the war on terror unless you're willing to consider buying less Iraqi oil.

-Jason

[Big Z]

CNN Headline News did a short news listing regarding Ford and GM's contributions to the relief and recovery efforts in New York and Washington.

The findings are as follows......

1. Ford- $1 million to American Red Cross matching employee contributions of the same number plus 10 Excursions to NY Fire Dept. The company also offered ER response team services and office space to displaced government employees.

2. GM- $1 million to American Red Cross matching employee contributions of the same number and a fleet of vans, suv's, and trucks.

3. Daimler Chrysler- $10 million to support of the children and victims of the Sept. 11 attack.

4. Harley Davidson motorcycles- $1 million and 30 new motorcycles to the New York Police Dept.

5. Volkswagen- Employees and management created a Sept 11 Foundation, funded initial with $2 million, for the assistance of the children and victims of the WTC.

6. Hyundai- $300,000 to the American Red Cross.

7. Audi- Nothing.

8. BMW- Nothing.

9. Daewoo- Nothing.

10. Fiat- Nothing.

11. Honda- Nothing despite boasting of second best sales month ever in August 2001

12. Isuzu- Nothing.

13. Mitsubishi- Nothing.

14. Nissan- Nothing.

15. Porsche- Nothing. Press release with condolences via the Porsche website.

16. Subaru- Nothing.

17. Suzuki- Nothing.

18. Toyota- Nothing despite claims of high sales in July and August 2001. Condolences posted on the website

Whenever the time may be for you to purchase or lease a new vehicle, keep this information in mind. You might want to give more consideration to a car manufactured by an American-owned and / or American based company. Apart from Hyundai and Volkswagen, the foreign car companies contributed nothing at all to the citizens of the United States. It's OK for these companies to take money out of this country, but it is apparently not acceptable to return some in a time of crisis. I believe we should not forget things like this. Say thank you in a way that gets their attention. Pass it on.

[InfamousTeeDog]

Hey Big Z...I think that ought to shut some people up.

"Honesty is the best policy...unless you are really good at lying."

[\"Hummer\", heh, heh]

Just to put that in perspective for you ATX...

In its first "corporate citizenship report," issued at the company's annual shareholders' meeting in Atlanta, Ford Motor said "...SUVs contribute more than cars to global warming, emit more smog-causing pollution and endanger other motorists..." But concluded that they will "...keep building them because they are so profitable."

Now, I agree with the previous poster that it's important to give credit where credit is due -- and in the case of Ford, they did go ahead and improve safety and emissions standards of SUV's on their own after making this surprising admission.

However, the other American auto makers building oversized SUV's have neither admitted to the problems posed by SUV's or taken their own steps to correct them.

A million dollar donation to the Red Cross is a very nice gesture. But I question the sincerity of auto makers who continue to build cars that increase our dependence on foreign oil by millions of barrels per day when they know they can do better.

-Jason

[Klaus]

Socialist. Heil Jason!

Member Profile for "Hummer", heh, heh

Date Registered: January 22, 2003
Status: H2 Veteran
Total Posts: 8
View Posts By this Member
Email: -
Home Page: -
Picture: -
Gender: -
Date of Birth: -
Location: -
Instant Messaging: -
Why did you join this forum?: to ridicule its members
Tools Add to Contacts
Start a Private Topic with "Hummer", heh, heh

[InfamousTeeDog]

Jason do you realize how many recalls Ford has had for faulty tires? Apparently you are way to quick to give Ford credit. Daimler Chrysler and Ford are amoung the worst for vehicle safety recalls.

"Honesty is the best policy...unless you are really good at lying."

[\"Hummer\", heh, heh]

"Jason do you realize how many recalls Ford has had for faulty tires? Apparently you are way to quick to give Ford credit. Daimler Chrysler and Ford are amoung the worst for vehicle safety recalls."

Did they ever accept guilt for that or are they still pointing to Firestone? Regardless, my point is they are the only ones that both recognized problems and made improvements to their SUV emissions and safety (by lowering the bumper so if they hit a small car, they won't do as much damage).

-Jason

[InfamousTeeDog]

That is all well and fine Jason but as long as there is a market for large SUV's and their numbers continue to soar because of it's uniqueness, you will not see this trend stop anytime soon.

"Honesty is the best policy...unless you are really good at lying."

[InfamousTeeDog]

Just remember...the reason that anything is ever built is because there is a market for it. Hey I would love to buy an SUV that gets 30-40mpg, but until automakers start doing it with a technology we know they have, I will continue to buy what is offered. As a business owner, would you produce a venture where the cost outweighed the profit? I don't think so. Jason I respect your viewpoint...I really do. But one person will not change the viewpoint of many intellectually capable individuals. We all have our reasons for doing the things we do because we are all individuals with our own set of values and beliefs. On the contrary I kind of like having you on this sight for your well thought-out viewpoints but lets get real...You are doing nothing more than wasting your own time.

"Honesty is the best policy...unless you are really good at lying."

[Sandra]

Jason, I hope you have a long beard, sandals made of straw, a loin cloth made from mother earth and a wooden staff other wise you are just as guilty as those you claim are contributing to the distruction of the environment. Are you a hypocrite? unless your GOD go away!

[Klaus]

AMEN Sandra!

[\"Hummer\", heh, heh]

Sandra: "Originally posted by Sandra:
Jason, I hope you have a long beard, sandals made of straw, a loin cloth made from mother earth and a wooden staff other wise you are just as guilty as those you claim are contributing to the distruction of the environment. Are you a hypocrite? unless your GOD go away!"

Maybe you're just tuning in, but I think those who have actually read my posts realize that unlike you -- who claim that I'm a hypocrite if I use an ounce of oil -- I have never taken an absolutist position and argued that people should give up anything in their lives that consumes energy.

-Jason

[SJ]

Again, you're a GUEST of this forum and you're pushing an AGENDA that does not respect the choice of its members. You are here to "badger" or convert other guests and members to your method of thinking. You even state this much in your Profile.

http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/bangin.gif

http://www.ultimateflags.com/featured/featured_1.gif

[This message was edited by SJ on February 27, 2003 at 12:00 PM.]

[\"Hummer\", heh, heh]

SJ: "Again, you're a GUEST of this forum and you're pushing an AGENDA that does not respect the choice of its members. You are here to "badger" or convert other guests and members to your method of thinking. You even state this much in your Profile."

With regard to respecting other members, I've explicitly written several times that I do respect the decision of people who come to different conclusions, as long as they at least listen to the arguments with an open mind. I don't think that's too much to ask.

With regard to badgering, I already provided several arguments in defense to your accusation in another thread, which I see are still unanswered. So without trying to put too fine a point on it, either kindly reply or I stand by my words. With regard to the profile, I already said it was intended as joke, like my screen name. But when people started complaining, I apologized and changed it long ago.

-Jason

[SJ]

Jason:

If I respond to every point, then I'm repeating the encompassing thoughts I've already conveyed in 3 different threads.

This will be my last post to you, as I feel that we agree on some levels, but not the items that keep volleying back and forth. So, on the remaining details, I "agree to disagree with you."

I've read your concerns and accept them for what they're worth. Likewise, I've written my position in what I feel is a reasonably exhaustive nature.

http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/wave2.gif

http://www.ultimateflags.com/featured/featured_1.gif

[Klaus]

Bull****! Get lost. Go be a human shield.

What you really need is an attitude adjustment!