Rubicon VS H2

[Allen]

Ok, I just read March edition of JP magazine...H2 get trashed by the writer of JP magazine. They say Rubicon wins in hill climbing ability, handling, price. H2 wins in sand because of the powerful engine. Any thoughts? Has anyone 4 wheeled with a Ruby yet? if so, how did the H2 do. I know this must be a biased article.

[DennisAJC]

Rubicon is an excellent off-roader.
Just not enough room for gear and people.

Rubicon is great for the off-road world.

H2 will get you the best of all worlds.

Still both have their strong points.

[H2Norcal]

Whatever.

I suggest we get that 750HP bohemoth Ernie keeps pushing in Florida and we will show them how you move a box car up a hill climb.....

Wait, let me get my camera first.

[NSXTC]

Read the same article. What do you expect from a Jeep magazine? They'll thrash everything that's out there except for the Jeep. It's not called Motor Trend or Car or something generic. It's call JP for Jeep Performance. Hence the bias opinion. There was a test with H1 vs. Rubicon and guess who else also won? You tell me that a Jeep can beat an H1?

[muskyman]

the rubicon will beat the H2 in most all off road conditions. its a great truck and the product of 65years of evolution .

in sand its more then power that gives the H2 the edge...sand is a very specific condition. it takes power, wheelbase, and a low amount surface pressure under the traction pad.

the bfg at has been known for years as a great sand tire . the large size stock on the H2 reduces its surface pressure enough that it does well.

if it had MT's it would not do near as well

[Steve R]

I won't deny that the Rubiclown is very capable, but your not comparing apples to apples: that rig is truly in a different class.

I've said it before; we had a modified Jeep with us when we ran the 2N17X...it was raised, had a rear locker, large tires and lots of goodies. That Jeep had run the Rubicon and the driver was both aggressive and experienced.

When we came to that big nasty hill the H1's went up it, had some trouble...but just slammed through. The H2 easily went about 80% up the hill and could not get past one point due to a crater-sized rut.

The Jeep really failed to impress me: it almost immediately was spinning wheels and having traction issues. Despite his repeated attempts and aggressiveness borderlining breakage...he never made it more then 50% the ways up.

The Rubi does have a front locker and such a thing would have helped. But heck...it's just a matter of months before the E-locker is available for us to add to our front-end: that will make us unstoppable!

Getting back to the nasty hill: the stock H2 outperformed the bad-ass modified Jeep hands down. I'm not going to argue what I and my group witnessed: that's what happened.

And in closing, allow me to show you something the Rubiclown will never do: carry all three of my babies AND all our gear for a weekend:

[Spidey]

Congratulations Steve -- judging by all those kids you do more then just mud flinging eh !!
They don't appear to share Dads 4 wheeling passion. Tell me is that twins I see, if so from who's side do they run ?? I'm betting yours. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Steve R]

Hey Spidey....

I fling mud only when mud is flung at me first. I guess I'm just a bit too passionate about the Hummer H2 and have a low threshold/tolerance for abusive words from those who would attack our fine rig. I'll try to mellow...but we all know that isn't likely going to happen. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Your looking at my 3 year-old Elana and our 10 month-old twins, Zoe and Emily....they are in fact indentical twins. Identical twins are not the result of two eggs coming down and both being fertilized, but rather the result of the embryo splitting (hench the indentical nature)...this is a rare thing and is not intrinsic to any hereditary issue.

I have my own theories on how I managed this...but my wife would not appreciate me discussing such matters, nor would the forum likely want to hear about it!!!

What you can be certain of is how safe we feel driving through the mountains with ice & snow during the night in near solid cloud-cover: The H2 is so sure-footed and strong....I wouldn't trust any other vehicle: DAMN I LOVE THIS RIG!!!!! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[DennisAJC]

The best of both worlds......

[Mike97ZJ]

The Rubicon is the most cable four wheel drive you can buy off of the showroom floor. Period.

It's not a commuter vehicle, it's not a family vehicle. It's made for offroad, and that's where it shines.

Granted the two vehicles are in a different class, but the Rubi will scramble up and over things a Hummer couldn't even get a tire on.

Incidently, Four Wheeler magazine did a "Ultimate Four Wheel Drive' article about two years ago. They compared a H1, TJ Wrangler, Range Rover 4.6, and the Toyota Tacoma TRD.

Results were:

1. Tacoma TRD (by virtue of rear e-locker)
2. Wrangler
3. H1 (they actually rolled it in the dunes!)
4. Rover

They got TONS of hate mail on that test.

[muskyman]

Steve,

you are correct the H2 and rubicon are in a defferent class, the rubi is really a 2 person and some gear truck meant just for off-road enthusiasts

I believe you took my above post as a bash on the H2. It was not in any way. It was a response based on what a number of testers agree with in the 4wheel drive world.

The Jeep you spoke of was not a Rubicon so you are correct when you say apples to apples. All jeeps are by far not equal.

You said the 1 jeep you have seen was raised and had large aggressive tires.

When you lift/raise a vehicle you then raise the center of gravity.

When you add larger tires you also raise the center of gravity

That combination of modifications that raise the center of gravity on a short wheelbase most often reduce a vehicles hill climbing ability do to a increased weight transfer to the rear wheels.

I would also wonder about the drivers skill level by your description of the aggressive driving style.

Good drivers are smooth and graceful . you rarely get the feeling they are being aggressive. More often then not you watch them and they tip toe thru things by choosing the correct line and the correct locations to apply power

The hill you describe brings back many memories for me. Steep hills in relatively soft terrain vary often end up looking the same way. The passage of vehicles causes a rut to develop at the top. Rain and erosion then work on the rut in combination with trail traffic to make a rut that sucks in a vehicle causing it not to be able to pass it easily.

The proper technique to pass these locations is a combination of steps. These hills very often are soft on the bottom. This is a result of the material from the rut being flushed out and down to the bottom of the hill this part of the climb often needs to be a smooth acceleration thru the soft area on a line that aims at the higher of the two sides of the rut. As you reach the rut you need to roll of the throttle and steer across the rut. As your first tire crosses the rut you need to counter steer back into the rut using the vehicles weight against the first tire across to hold the other front tire on the other side. From this point you are straddling the rut and as you continue up the rear tire on the side of the first tire across will unweight and lift due to weight transfer. During this moment you need to avoid aggressive application of power because or it will make your other rear tire break traction and slide down the slope into the rut. By keeping your rear tireon the slope its most often a high traction climb to the top because the two high slopes will have good traction because they wont be weakened by erosion due to the fact all the area water runs down the trench.

In areas where the trench has eroded to a point its to wide to straddle the lower side of the slope will almost always have a area large enough to hold the vehicle to small to straddle it. In this case you then continue across it and the second front tire across will be the tire lifted. Once again avoid large amounts of acceleration during the moment of a lifted tire due to the fact that power will cause side slip that will slide you into the trench.


Driving tactical trails is a thinking mans game. Time and experience combined with a true knowledge of your vehicles strengths and weaknesses is what the key is

Case in point: Back in the mid 70’s Malcome Smith noted world champion cross country motor cycle racer and Jackie Stewart where hosting the “widow maker” hill climb on ABC sports. After 2 hours of watching every kind of cycle fail to make the climb. Including huge power paddle wheeled specialty bikes made just for that purpose. Jackie Stewart started goating Malcome into trying it. Malcome was astonished that nobody could drive up a hill that had so many places of good traction. Well TV being what it was back then Malcome put on his duds and got on one of his cross country racing Husquvarna’s he rode slowly to the base of the hill and started up in a very controlled graceful manner he drove close to bushes and foliage where roots systems hold the ground tight. He blasted rooster tails across a couple soft sandy stretches.he used momentum to jump the two or so ridges that stopped all the other riders and made the top in a very graceful well thought out manner.

That’s what off road is about!

Peace

thom

[Mike97ZJ]

Well said, Musky.

I agree with you totally, it's all about driving elegant, as Granville King used to say.

[SJ]

In short summary - the Wrangler Rubicon is sweet! I sat in one at the local Auto Show and it's all about giving you what most 4 x 4 enthusiasts want without all the extra frills that add to the price tag.

The only knocks that I've read or heard are in regards to clearance. Some trail runs resulted in the gas tank being dented by rocks, but nothing a mild lift can't cure.

I finally saw a nice blue one on the road and Jeep will sell every single unit they can build.

[Mike97ZJ]

Hell yeah. All the Rubi needs is a mild lift and 33"-35" tires. Stock Jeeps ARE too low.

But since lifts for them are cheap and easy, no biggie. The aftermarket makes better stuff anyway.

[SOCAL XMER]

I like both the Rubi and the Hummer and I am waiting for the H3 to see what it will be like.
I really need the room that the Rubi just can't offer. I often wonder how a Rubi would have done on the hill we were on and if the Jeeper had more feness could he have made it.
I can tell you it was hard to find traction on that hill and it did demand alot of driver skill to get up it.
I think if the H2 had more agressive tires or a front locker it would have made it up, needless to say it was a serious challange and that is what off roading is all about.

future H2 or H3 owner

[muskyman]

socal,

dont be so fast at getting "more aggresive" tires.

tires get there traction from the grooves across the face not the deapth of the grooves

deep grooves and large voids improve cleaning of the tread .but because the have far less cross grooves they sacrifice traction for that cleaning.

in many situations such as sand,loose dirt, or slick surfaces like ice or snow covered roads a AT(all terrain) tread will far outperform a MT(mud terrain)

the guys with the mud terrains will argue with that but they will also be wrong

what happens is the aggresive tire digs deep but lacks the cross grooves that provide the traction so the tire looses traction and starts digging the hole it then gets stuck in.

the only times MT's have the edge is when a AT tread gets clogged and wont clean itself,or when you are rock climbing and the large voids allow the rocks to to get deep enough into the voids to allow enough mechanical contact that the vehicle lifts itself without tire spin.

MM

Musky:the thinking mans fish

Dirt is for playing roads are for getting there

[brianfriend]

Very true about the tires. Agressive tread will dig the hole. In snow and wet applications the tred on an aggressive tire will scare you. I use aggressive tires because I drive a lot of rocks but on the road or wet rocks it can be scary.

If it can break it can be fixed.

[Steve R]

Muskyman,

Okay...it's official: you're IT. From the Jeeper attack we picked up Mike and from the Rover attack it'll be you. From your expressive writing and informative material....I'd have to say you'll be well received and appreciated on the list. It is my sincere hope that you stick around and contribute. I know Mike has proven an outstanding asset. And if you have nothing else to say...just follow up any of my post with an "Amen"...it drives certain people nuts!! If you really score high they may even call you my sidekick...but lets not get too excited just yet. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

You're all right: offroading is having fun with vehicles in the outdoors. Why should a brand name preclude anything??? Especially since none of us designed, built, engineered or created these toys: we just blew some coin and accessorized them.

The hill to which I made regard to was a nasty critter. You are very correct in your description: years of use have eroded the thing into something the Sierra Club would love to photograph. There really is nothing more then a channel in the ground leading upwards! There are no "lines" to follow or choices to make...you simply have two options....head forward or reverse downward. Sad but true.

The Jeep was a winner...it was completely set up with experience and done for ultimate performance (overall). It ran the Rubicon, and when the experienced driver exhuasted his finess...he turned to the last resort: aggressiveness. Maybe it just wasn't the right trail or conditions...you know how that can be. It just wasnt' a Jeep hill. A front locker would have made ALL the difference.

The Rubicon is a nice machine, perfect for two people and some gear...but I would argue about it being the most capable...especially over the H1. I've seen an H1 flip at Gorman....it happens. An H1 driver needs experience, the H1 does not come with lockers front or rear! They use BTM with their unique Torsen Differentials. I'm certain the H1 that failed the test was driven by some typical guy who just climbed behind the wheel and pushed the gas pedal. You have to work an H1 and have thorough experience to make it effective.

The H1's clearance, complete underbelly skidplate and other features make it the very best offroad vehicle bar-none. The Rubicon is more prone to rolling, has differentials and various stuff to get caught on under the chassis and suffers from serious transmission problems. I've been told it's a great rockcrawler..but that's it.

I believe there are more places a Rubicon could not follow an H1 then there are places an H1 could not follow a Rubicon. Geometry will vary, so each has their strong-points and areas they favor.

Wanna laugh? What I'm told is lethally effective...of all things...is a Suzuki that has front & rear lockers, Dana axles for greater width/stability and larger tires. Oh my lord are those things nimble and effective.

Each of our vehicles shine in different areas. It is truly futile to argue.

Here's a pic of that hill.

[Steve R]

As you can see....the trail is like the letter "W"....tires have not only worn a rut down each left and right side...but have left a huge mound in the center. This is where the gear-driven hubs of the H1 truly shine!!!!

I know you'll hate me for saying this...but I don't think the Rubicon would have made it. The Jeep that was there was basically a Rubicon except for the lack of front locker. Even with a front locker...the diff ball's would have got MAJORLY caught up on the center.

We'll return to this trail again....wanna come?

[muskyman]

steve we have a hill that looks just like that one on the pipeline trail we call it the trench and the way to do it is use power till the top then turn across and stradle the last part. front and rear lockers are a absolute in that loose and ruted terain. my scout goes right up it...but then again it goes just about where http://members.aol.com/thommathie/myhomepage/mvc-006s.jpg?mtbrand=AOL_US ever you point it

Musky:the thinking mans fish

Dirt is for playing roads are for getting there

[Steve R]

Musk-master,

That certainly is one tight set-up, I'll give you that! But you still have not one...but two big-old pumpkins set between your axles.

You're approaching H1 capability though, certainly a formiddable vehicle!

[Mike97ZJ]

The great thing about those two pumpkins between the axles: they are connected to solid axles.

Those solid axles mean far more suspension travel than an IFS vehicle, and more clearance in some cases.

Okay, so you found one situation where the H1 excels. Sure, it's got those great geared hubs and belly plate. But it has virtually no suspension travel! That clearance is all it has going for it.

What kind of Wrangler was it that couldn't make it up that hill? I bet it was a YJ (square headlights).

I'm sorry, but the Hummer is not the final word in offroad vehicles. For most terrain, a small, short wheelbase rig with solid axles will work best, whether it be a 'Zuk, Jeep, early Bronco, or D90.

Oh, and I'd put money on that Scout being able to out wheel an H1.

[Steve R]

The H1 has more then "virtually no suspension"....granted it's not huge...but it's still there. Pumpkins may remain constant in terms of distance from the groud...but still..there they are in the way.

The Scout could out-wheel the H1 in some situations....but more often I bet the H1 would outwheel the Scout. I don't see much in the way of lateral stability there. Nor can it drag it's entire belly over boulders.

Come on man...give the H1 some credit. Your making it sound like an Explorer.

[muskyman]

I built that scout from scratch

it has a 392 agricultural pump motor(18% nichol block) stroked to 414 it makes 330 to 360 hp depending on the jets and timing and fuel. well over 500 ftlbs of torque. the motor is dropped in the frame three inches to lower COG. it runs thru a 12" clutch into a T19 trans with a 6.78:1 first gear into a dana 300 TC with crawler gears.it has a rear dana 60 with 35spline axles a front dan 44 with 30 spline hub to hub. 4whl disc brakes.it weighs 4600lbs as you see it, it side hills to 44* and because it is front heavy with a low COG it climbs like you cant even believe. it has a complete enclosed belly pan that makes it dead flat underneith. it has a completly sealed intake and breather system all thru the snorkle.it has forded depths over the hood many times it submarine safe.on the front it has a hydraulic winch that combined with the boosted power steering system pulls at about 12000 lbs. it ramps 988 on a 20* ramp

it goes places a stock H1 cant even come close to. untill you ride in it and expierience what it can do ,you wouldent beleive it.

Musky:the thinking mans fish

Dirt is for playing roads are for getting there

[Steve R]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> it goes places a stock H1 cant even come close to. untill you ride in it and expierience what it can do ,you wouldent beleive it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sounds like it's time for me to take my Hummer booklet and go home. A wise man knows when he's been beat. I'm not wise...but I still seem to know when it's time to quit.

Still....the H1 has more side-slope stability and the CTIS is pretty cool. Plus....I bet you can't spend nearly as much on parts even if you tried!!

Nice rig. Can't honestly say I understand all of what you rattled off....but I'm impressed!!! Just don't let MAC see that pic...he'll brand us a bunch of backcountry yahoo's! Maybe if you painted it up gloss black, chromed it out and put some underbelly neon lights or something http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

oh yeah....some sidebars gets them excited too!

[muskyman]

yes I drag the belly over boulders, it side hills everybit as well as a H1 due to the droped engine and soft top.

and no I dont have CTIS, but it does have my tirelocker system that allows me to air down to what ever presure I want.

at 4psi I can drive over snow drifts like a snowmobile. plus its power to weight ratio is so good a H1 gets left in the last zip codehttp://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Musky:the thinking mans fish

Dirt is for playing roads are for getting there

[Mike97ZJ]

Sounds like a great setup you got there Musky.

Steve, don't get me wrong, I think the H1 is cool and capable in it's own unique way. You can't strap a parachute to many other vehicles and throw them out of cargo planes, that's for sure. Also, it's fording depth while equiped with a snorkel is impressive.

The H1 just wasn't built for technical wheeling. For one thing, it's just too damn big to fit down most trails. Also, it was designed with the lead footed serviceman in mind. It's not about finessing it's way over obstacles, it's about crashing over them at high speed. Problem is, most people don't drive like that in the rear world, not when you have to make payments on the thing.

Then again, different vehicles work better than others for different kind of wheeling. I think the terrain that we wheel on is very different. Most trails I run, a Hummer wouldn't even fit. And if it did, it would be severely limited in the number of different lines that it could take. Yes, they are stable on sidehills, as long as they are relatively smooth. I think it's nice to be able to keep all four wheels on the ground, and most pics of H1's that I've seen have been of it 3 wheeling because of the lack of suspension flex. Also, that long wheelbase and low rocker clearance lead to a lowsy breakover angle and can make it prone to body damage. I've seen more than one shot of a H1 high centered on a relatively mild hill.

How about this: Just about all the mag reviews of the H2 that I've read say it is BETTER off road than the H1. What do you think of that?

[Hummie2]

Musky...

Nice Scout. Pretty serious rig there.

Just curious as to what type of carburation you made work on it.

Don

[muskyman]

I run a milled quadrajet with snap springs on the metering rods. its 825 cfm.

the carb was custom built for the motor by brad urban at the carb shop in Cuchamonga CA

it acts like fuel injection in everyway never stutters even when the truck is at insane weird angles.

Musky:the thinking mans fish

Dirt is for playing roads are for getting there

[Hummie2]

Musky...

OK sounds cool. I didn't think you ever made a Holly work off-road very well. I didn't anyway, but I had great results with Predators though.

Don

[muskyman]

a friend of mine at performance unlimited (http://rformanceunlimited.com) is a really talented tuner of predator carbs, check out his site he sets them up for lots of off roaders.

but the quadrajet has much better off-idle characteristics so because I spend most my time on very tactical trails off-idle is whats most important.

Musky:the thinking mans fish

Dirt is for playing roads are for getting there

[Steve R]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mike97ZJ:
How about this: Just about all the mag reviews of the H2 that I've read say it is BETTER off road than the H1. What do you think of that?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm confused and puzzled. I've been on the trail several times and watched H1's do amazing things. Several times it was the only vehicle to make it to the top of horrifically rutted runs. It's definitely a vehicle that the driver needs particular experience with.

The H2....I almost forgot how we originally described it: A Jeep Grand Cherokee on steroids.

Well, to sum it up....it's like my fishing equipment: a different rod & reel for each application/situation.

My other thought....go check out my "fun in hummers" thread! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Mike97ZJ]

I did. I just stared at that pic for 5 minutes trying to come up with a caption. I couldn't. I'm speechless.



Oh, and I think the mags like the H2 better because it has a solid rear axle with the locker, and is a little narrower than the H1.

[Steve R]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mike97ZJ:
Oh, and I think the mags like the H2 better because it has a solid rear axle with the locker, and is a little narrower than the H1.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not to mention costing half as much? http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Mike97ZJ]

Yeah, that too.

See, instead of buying an H1, someone could buy a Rubicon, trailer, and H2 to tow it with.

[Duramax Diesel for H2]

this article is probably a better one to compare the two vehicles: http://www.chicagotribune.com/classified/automotive/columnists/chi-0212280282dec29,0,7298694.column

[Allen]

After reading that article...enough said. For me the H2 is perfect. I tow a boat, 3 quads and my former 1999 wrangelr went 30mph up the moutain pass on the way to Lake Mead in NV because the Jeeps are power starved. My H2 carries my 3 kids and gear and it'll take me anywhere offroad I have ever had the courage or stupidity to go...and come back! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Duramax Diesel for H2]

here is a pic that depecites exactly what the rubicon has that the average jeep does not have.

[Duramax Diesel for H2]

full chassis pic

[Mike97ZJ]

The Wrangler is more than a vehicle, it's practically a lifestyle.

You have to be a special sort of person to tollerate a Wrangler on a daily basis. A lot of reviews knock the Rubi because of it's onroad manners, but most people who buy them could care less. When the nice weather comes around and the top and doors are removed and the windshield is folded down, all that is forgotten.

Eventually, I'd like to get a Wrangler, but as a 2nd car. For me, it's just not practical enough to be a daily driver.

From a purely offroad standpoint though, you just can't beat them.

The Rubi is great because it comes stock with all the goodies that serious rockcrawlers would install on them later anyway.

Regular Wranglers come with A Dana 30 front axle and a Dana 35 rear axle. A Dana 44 is optional on standard Wranglers, but it has drum brakes.

The Rubi comes with Dana 44 axles front and rear, and the rear one is also equiped with disk brakes.

On the 6cyl Wrangler, the best gearing you can get is 3.73. The Rubi comes with 4.10's.

Standard Wranglers have optional Trak Lok rear limited slip. Rubi has front AND rear electric lockers that work as ltd. slips when unlocked.

Standard Wranglers have a 2.72 low range. The Rubi has a 4.1 low range. Crawl range is in the 60's.

Standard Wrangler has optional 3 speed auto trans w/out overdrive. The Rubi has an optional 4speed auto w/OD.

Rubi also comes standard with factory rocker protection and full skidplating.

The Rubi also comes stock with MTR's in 245/75R16, which are the biggest tires offered on a Jeep. Basically a 31" tire.

Only negatives about the Rubi are easily remedied. A 3-4" lift from Rubicon Express and some 33-35" tires will remedy the problem of the Rubi's relatively low stance.

[jeepsrule]

it's all about mods you can take a stock h2 like my buddy has and a ruby like my other buddy has put them to the test the ruby will take the test better on most things but its built for that but my heavly modified jeep cj7 will beat the pants off both the ruby and the h2 but if i want to go on a road trip or anywhere else I want to go in the h2 I am 100% jeep guy for off road it's not fun to take a long drive and this is for allen jp mag. is by petersen's the same mag. that named the lexus the 4x4 of the year. and put the ruby and h2 low on the list you and i know that a h2 and ruby would spank the lexus offroad so its not to biased

[Steve R]

Ya know what guys....

I've got a special fishing rod/reel that is called a "jig-stick". It's long and can really hurl a jig way the heck out there. When using this rod I can cover larger areas and really produce strikes by dragging that lure through more water. This rod is awesome and I love to hurl lures/jigs with it. It's the best, it's the best, it's the best!!!

But it doesn't work worth a damn for trolling, you don't want to hook up with a 60 pound tuna on it...and you certainly wouldn't use it for deep-rock fishing. Ya know what I mean?

This IS an H2 forum, most of the people here are into H2's, have H2's are come to discuss H2's. I don't mind a bit of contrasting....but there has to be a point when it's just offensive to members who come here to chat.

[HUMMERDOGG]

Allright, I've had enough. As SteveR stated:
"This IS an H2 forum, most of the people here are into H2's, have H2's are come to discuss H2's. I don't mind a bit of contrasting....but there has to be a point when it's just offensive to members who come here to chat."

Thank god someone has finally said what I have been thinking for the past month and a half ever since the jeepers and rover guys came over and started posting. I am so sick and tired of having to hear "how great modified jeeps are" or how "RR or D2's kick the H2's ass in off-roading" and listen to the daily comparisons that go on between the H2 and every other off-road vehicle and how much the H2 sucks and how great everything else is. I mean ****, if I really wanted the baddest off-road vehicle that would kick the **** out of every other vehicle discussed and pictured here, I would just call up Avalanche Engineering and have them build me their Zero G and put 2 1/2 ton Rockwells with beadlocked 44" Boggers. Then I could "out" off-road all you guys who have no interest in the H2 but must babble on a daily basis how great your rigs are. I would truly appreciate Jason creating a new discussion board titled "Other Vehicles and H2 Comparisons" where you guys could go and discuss all the wonderful merits of the other makes and models of off-road vehicles.

*member of the "No Hummer Krew"*

[HUMMERDOGG]

OH, I'm sorry... Jason has already done that in the "Off Topic" Section of the Forum. There are two forums titled: "Off-Roading" and "Other Off-Roading Vehicles"... I would kindly appreciate the respective posters of such topics and information to use these two forums and leave the current forum you are in: "General H2 Discussion" alone so that we may use it for it's intended purpose... discussing H2's...

*member of the "No Hummer Krew"*

[muskyman]

well thats a good point...but look back at where this thread started.

it may be a good idea for jason to put a few more rules other then the be-respectful rule on the sign up board.

one thing that comparisons do is start dialogue that makes people validate there opinions, and those valdating points offer a good insight into what it seams many people here are just starting out doing, using there trucks off-road

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Allen

H2 Veteran
posted February 06, 2003 04:30 PM
Ok, I just read March edition of JP magazine...H2 get trashed by the writer of JP magazine. They say Rubicon wins in hill climbing ability, handling, price. H2 wins in sand because of the powerful engine. Any thoughts? Has anyone 4 wheeled with a Ruby yet? if so, how did the H2 do. I know this must be a biased article.
Posts: 48 | From: Valencia,CA,USA | Registered: November 26, 2002 <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Musky:the thinking mans fish

Dirt is for playing roads are for getting there

[HUMMERDOGG]

Muskyman-

I understand this and can appreciate informative dialogue and "though-provoking discussion" however, I have noticed in recent visits to the H2 Forum, more and more posts have become centered around the lack of off-road ability of the H2 and the seeminly boundless/limitless off-road ability of other's vehicles. I understand exhuberance and pride when discussing one's vehicle especially when it is a vehicle that has been designed and built for a specific purpose (i.e. rockcrawling, mud bogging, trail running, etc.) but, let us not forget, when one customizes a vehicle to suit such a specific purpose, one must sacrifice some of the onroad capabilities that makes it wonderful as a daily driver. The H2 manages to do a very good job combining the best of both worlds.

-HUMMERDOGG

*member of the "No Hummer Krew"*

[Allen]

Well exuse me Musky...what ever that means. I thought it was ok to post a legitimate question and invite feedback. The bottom line is this: If you don't want to read the responses to a question...then don't. If you think there are too many responses...then don't read them. If the thread is something your not interested in...then don't read them. By asking my legitimate question I was sincerely interested in what some of the other 4x4 experts of the forum thought. I am sorry for inciting such a huge offensive response that makes some members of this forum upset. Again, I thought this forum was to learn new things about our H2's, meet nice people that share a common interest. Maybe I was wrong. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

[Firebreather]

when you are the proverbial stock king of the hill (not counting the H1, Defender or G-Wagon) the rest feel compelled to take shots at you. they cant help it. do any of u feel compelled to go to Rover or Jeep boards and talk about how the H2 can out wheel any of those? of course not. why not? because u know u have the best vehicle in its class...


that said, i enjoy the comparisons. i agree with allen if u dont want to read them then dont click on them.

[Allen]

Secondly, Mushky...maybe you should mind Jasons rule about being respectful. Your comment was rude. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

[HUMMERDOGG]

Firebreather- God, you hit the nail on the head... I have never felt compelled to do this...

and Allen-

I was not throwing barbs in your direction... Merely commenting on the direction that I feel the recent posts have been going and displaying my dissatisfaction of such...

-Hummerdogg

*member of the "No Hummer Krew"*

[Allen]

Hummerdog - No offense taken. I see alot of post that are simply ridiculous. I choose not to read them. Simple. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[muskyman]

allen,

go back and quote what I said was wrong?,or disrespectful?

all I did was show hummerdogg that this wasent a thread started by a rovertroll invading jeep lover.

either lay off the caffiene or counter self medcicate with vallium because you seam wound pretty tighthttp://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Musky:the thinking mans fish

Dirt is for playing roads are for getting there

[Steve R]

Wow....I'm so confused...

I think what it comes down to is this: We come here to discuss, relate and ENJOY the fellowship of owning an H2 or having an interest in eventually owning an H2.

Yeah...knowing what the H2 isn't and knowing about other vehicles can be interesting...but it's getting to the point where some peoples interest seem to be all about making sure we (the H2 forum) don't feel too good about our H2's.

Musky, your an interesting guy and certainly a wealth of information....but it would seem as though your purpose here is to make certain none of us are too impressed with our Hummers.
There are 3 things I'd like to point out:

1) Most of us here just laid down $60,000 dollars and took a gutsy chance on buying a first-year production vehicle. It's enough that the media and tree-huggers are on our asses and other people seem compelled to voice their disapproval....that we don't need to come together on this forum and feel bad here too.

2) The Hummer H2 DAMN WELL IS an amazing vehicle. It comes stock with huge tires, excellent clearance, great geometric design, an awesome 4x4 system, traction control, underside protetion, rear-locker and a host of other great features. The stock LR's freakin' blow! They have less clearance, their butts hang wayyyy past the rear axle and drag, they weigh as much as the H2, have NO rear locker and come with medium-sized road tires. They plummet in value, are poorly built, top-heavy and a complete class well below our bad-ass rigs. Your Pig-Scout is bad-ass, but it probably doesn't have 2% the luxury, comfort and city-handling the H2's have...nor will it carry your whole family...for that matter it's probably a trailered vehicle only. I don't know...and I don't mean to be rude...but I don't care.

3) THIS IS AN H2 FORUM

Snap-crackle-pop goes/went Steve...sorry 'bout that. I'm openly partial for blame....I asked lots of questions and paved some of the way. I appreciate your input about the tires and other performance issues....but I'd appreciate if you'd contribute to the positive aspects of the H2 from time to time to offset what seems to be a belittling theme.

[Steve R]

what I mean is.....you've got to break-free from this wet-blanket thing your casting. Hope you understand...and I think you do.

[kelleymac2000]

Allen:

I'm confused. Musky was just pointing out that HE didn't start this particular comparison thread. In my (not so) humble opinion, he's been nothing but respectful of the members of this forum, on this forum. Not sure why we're all jumping down his throat here.

And a muskie (aka musky) is a HUGE fish...go here to take a look:

http://www.muskiefishing.com/

Kelley

[Allen]

Awwww. Ok. Thank you for clearing it up. But I think Steve sees what I saw in his reply. But oh well, I am going to go have some for caffeine so I can get really wound up and attack someone else...just kidding

[kelleymac2000]

http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Well, we know how tightly strung you So. Cal types are! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Kelley

[Big Z]

Muskyman, Brainfriend, Jmoore, and the rest of you Discos,(carters puppets). Like a big badge for your forum, about as soon as you post here you run back there and post your (pony-up) challenges. Now--flexing a little monitor muscle--as Musky put it over there, I don't give a **** about what you drive, where you drive it, or how you modify it. You Boys&Girls need to move on. As far is I'm concerned, You have worn out your welcome. I've read every post about Hummers at your site. The Knowledge you have of these vehicles is miniscule at best, and you bring nothing to this forum but discontent because of it.

[jeepsrule]

this is for steve r and hummerdog my post was not to slam the h2 or to say mines better than yours but until both of you go off roading with both the ruby and the h2 and see for yourself if im not mistaken the topic was rubicon vs.H2 so i dont think im out of line on this topic matter of fact both you guys pissed me off that was down right disrespectfull so both of you can take your great big h2 turn them clock wise no no counter clock wise and stuff them both up your asses. MY COMMENT TO STEVE AND HUMMERDOG ARE NOT MENT FOR ANY OTHER RESPECTED H2 OWNER THANK YOU .

[Firebreather]

u go there boy

[Steve R]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jeepsrule:
my heavly modified jeep cj7 will beat the pants off both the ruby and the h2
AND THEN YOU POST:
my post was not to slam the h2 or to say mines better than yours
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Gee....if that isn't the very essence of a two-faced contradicting absurd comment...then what is??? YOU my friend should run for public office...cause you got the right stuff!! You are in dire need of a strong laxative....cause your full of it!

My comments weren't aimed at you JeepsFule, so why don't you take it down a notch. While your solution to everything may involve exploring the deeper rectal cavities of other people...I can assure you that it's you who....ah, nevermind...I don't need another flame-war.

I'm sorry if your not feeling the love....but this forum has seen more then its share of oppressive visitors who, by various approaches, are here only to solicit the merits of their own brand preference and make certain we are reminded that the H2 ain't worth a penny in a dime store.

WTF do you think you're doing walking into an H2 Forum with a name like Jeepsrule? What kind of a warm reception do you expect...especially with your comments. All you do is throw a bit of sugar on the H2 before you slam it. I don't represent the entire forum....but I'm guessing your absence would go unnoticed. As they say in Amityville: GET OUT!

[Dan]

My new reply to posts containing all of this H2 vs XX, or "my XX is better than your H2 because..." is:

Who Cares?

This is an H2 forum. Its here so H2 fans can come here and enjoy their vehicle with other H2 fans. Its not here for the purpose of H2 fans to defend their position of liking/owning the H2.

There are plenty of other forums for people who like other brands, jeepsunlimited.com & discoweb.org to name a couple.

Its like repeatedly going to a restaraunt you don't like, just to complain about the food over and over. I don't get it...

- Dan

---------------------------------
SUT on order - 17 months to go!
---------------------------------

[Mike97ZJ]

Here's an idea: instead of bitching about the thread, just ignore it. Threads like this die out quick when people stop responding.

[bklynh2srock]

Thanks, Mike. Words well spoken (written?). http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

IGNORE, IGNORE, IGNORE.

I know it's very tempting, and I've more than once wanted to respond with my own opinion (it burns me up) but we've GOT to just ignore.

I know that by just writing this, I am not toally ignoring, but Mike nailed it on the head!

[HUMMERDOGG]

Hey, jeepsrule...

Shut the f*ck up.

You have got to be kidding me. If you look at any of my posts, I am one of the most cordial guys here. Yes, as you alluded to, the post was "h2 vs. rubicon"... Funny thing is, this was your response:

"but my heavly modified jeep cj7 will beat the pants off both the ruby and the h2"

who gives a **** if your "heavily modified jeep cj7" can beat the pants off the H2 or Rubicon? My Avalanche Engineered Rock Crawler can kick the **** out of your "heavily modified jeep cj7"...

All you have done since you've been here is post 3 times: 1)listing your two jeep cj7's, 2)talk **** about how great one of them is, and 3)then throw barbs at SteveR and me. I would suggest you refrain from issueing such pointed attacks since mine was not directed solely at you nor mentioned you by name.

-Hummerdogg

*member of the "No Hummer Krew"*

[Allen]

Like it has bben said before - Ignore the ignorant...like jeepsrule and Musky ect.

[jeepsrule]

hey hummerdogg
you guys started this **** i posted on feb.12at9:18am and the next 2 post were steve and you saying you had enough i did not come to this fourm to start any **** i came to learn more about the hummer since my buddy doesnt know a hole lot about his but all i have learned is your an ******* .but anyway it said rubicon vs h2 and i said its all about the mods.and it truly is you could modified a geo metro to out offroad a ruby and a h2if you try hard enough dude if you dont like me thats fine im not here to make you my best friend or am i here to make you want to run me over and im sorry if you guys took my first post wrong all im trying to say its all about mods and I think even you and i can agree with what sounds like a kick ass rockcrawler you have. true off road 4x4 are built not bought. you should post some pics so everyone can see this bad boy

[Steve R]

I'm 100% with H-dogg on this call.

We used to congregate here and chat about our H2's. Lately it's been about hearing how other brands could kick our butts and constant reassurance that we've got lousy vehicles that aren't worth a damn.

I'm mean...seriously, what kind of an idiot comes onto a Hummer forum with a username like "jeepsrule". I suppose you visit a rapper forum with a name like "whitesrule". You follow it up with offensive statements and then wonder why your taking heat.

Most of us have had jeeps and many still do. Thing is...in case you haven't picked up on this...this is a Hummer H2 forum.

As I've said before, we've just paid about $60,000 and bought a new vehicle in its first year of production. We're happy with them and enjoy them...we don't need to come here to hear about how they suck as compared to other vehicles. Dude: your a weed in my pumpkin patch.

[jeepsrule]

hey steve i was trying to be nice if you read my last post you would have seen that you took my first post all wrong im not going to apologize for somthing you dont understand

[Steve R]

Hey Jeepsrule,

Maybe I took your post the wrong way and I would have seen that you were trying to be nice in your next post...and you shouldn't have to apologize for something I didn't understand.

M'kay....m'kay

My questions are still pertinent...even though I see your backing down a bit and trying to mesh. Let's just leave it at "whatever"