Is the LR3 a Serious Off-Road Competitor?

[Aubs]

Granted, I do some research and give up, I just wanted to know if the LR3 would hold ground against an H2 or H3. It's got similar ground clearance, though poor approach and departure angles. There doesn't seem to be as much room for articulation in the wheel wells either. Just was curious to know what everyone thinks.

[NEOCON1]

its a little better than the freelander :eek: :D

[Aubs]

its a little better than the freelander :eek: :D

Yeah, the Freelander is not a very impressive beast. However, the LR2 might be somewhat of an improvment.

Reading some Land Rover forums though, it's discouraging that almost all posts are dealing with some failure or mechanical issue. :rolleyes:

[Sewie]

They had one down at Hollister as a Ranger Vehicle. :mad: Of course it was parked down at the gate while their other trucks were out in the park. :rolleyes:

Just by looking at one, I'd have to say no way they could keep up with an H2/H3 for just the reasons you mentioned.

[Aubs]

They had one down at Hollister as a Ranger Vehicle. Of course it was parked down at the gate while their other trucks were out in the park. :rolleyes:

Just by looking at one, I'd have to say no way they could keep up with an H2/H3 for just the reasons you mentioned.

Good to know. I was looking at maybe replacing my H2 with something (because my lease is going way over mileage:(), and I figured maybe I should just include the LR3 to be fair, because it does have a lot of room inside, and it's got like Xenon headlamps, neat sunroof things, Active Roll Mitigation, and some other little gadgets. But, if it can't keep up off-road, then there's no sense it in. I think the H3 is my best option.

[DRTYFN]

Low profile tires =PWNAGE off-road.

[DRTYFN]

Good to know. I was looking at maybe replacing my H2 with something, and I figured maybe I should just include the LR3 to be a total metro-sexual poop-taster.
:D

[Aubs]

I think that you should invite me along on your next trip because I would like to get some of that homo action:D

Well, there are more LR3 ads that feature gay men than any other car company I know.

[DRTYFN]

Well, there are more LR3 ads that feature gay men than any other car company I know.

I figured there was a reason for your interest.:D

[BlueTJCO]

you want to argue about a Land Cruiser behing a good off-road vehicle but ask if the LR3 should be any good on the trails........:eek:

[Aubs]

you want to argue about a Land Cruiser behing a good off-road vehicle but ask if the LR3 should be any good on the trails........:eek:

I think it's a fair question. The LR3 has a center and rear locker, computer traction control systems, and an air suspension. It's angles suck, and the tires suck, but it's got room, and some nice on-road features... The LC is a dinosaur. It's like riding on a Fischer-Price Trike when you could have a Yeti or Specialized mountain bike.

I wanted to know what other people had to say. And they pretty much thought it sucked, like I was figuring.

[BlueTJCO]

but then again most people would say that the Land Rovers are tippy and top heavy and I tend to think they kick ass on the trails. The LR3 just has way too much pretty plastic to mess up but I'm sure I'll be eating my words when one destroys me on the trails in my jeep someday....

[DRTYFN]

but then again most people would say that the Land Rovers are tippy and top heavy and I tend to think they kick ass on the trails. The LR3 just has way too much pretty plastic to mess up but I'm sure I'll be eating my words when one destroys me on the trails in my jeep someday....

But you also want to stick your foot in other guys' asses.:eek: ;)

[HummBebe]

I have personally wheeled with the LR3's.

It was a desert run, and they did sustain some bumper damage. But I think if they had a few mods, ie tires and a rock rails etc, they would make a great wheeling vehicle.

They have traction control up the arse. A button for every type of terrain, and it will literally drive itself!

They are not rock buggy's, but neither is an H3.

[DRTYFN]

I have personally wheeled with the LR3's.

It was a desert run, and they did sustain some bumper damage. But I think if they had a few mods, ie tires and a rock rails etc, they would make a great wheeling vehicle.

They have traction control up the arse. A button for every type of terrain, and it will literally drive itself!

They are not rock buggy's, but neither is an H3.

You're a girl. We don't care about your opinion. Don't you have housework to do?;);)

[HummBebe]

I think you should take a trip to the mall.:mad:

[CO Hummer]

I think you should take a trip to the mall.:mad:

He's into the singles scene at the arcades. :D

[BlueTJCO]

But you also want to stick your foot in other guys' asses.:eek: ;)

...

[Aubs]

I have personally wheeled with the LR3's.

It was a desert run, and they did sustain some bumper damage. But I think if they had a few mods, ie tires and a rock rails etc, they would make a great wheeling vehicle.

They have traction control up the arse. A button for every type of terrain, and it will literally drive itself!

They are not rock buggy's, but neither is an H3.

I echo these thoughts in a way. I find that A/B/D angles are really important, but also the traction control systems play a huge part. I wheeled with a buddy that had a Cherokee, and basically he just gunned whatever he wanted to conquer. With TC, you can go at a nice, slow pace and let the vehicle do the work.

I do think the LR3 tires are not very well suited for off-road situations. But the Terrain Response system looks like it could be pretty amazing. And as for the tippy bit, Land Rover claims that the LR3 will do a 45 degree ascent drive through, and a 35 degree sustained side slope. Note that's degrees, not %. Also, the Hill Descent Control is pretty amazing (BMW has it, got it from LR) and it works very well when descending an icy slope anyway.

Actually, I shouldn't have spoken so quickly earlier. The approach angle matches the H3 (well, .3 off), the breakover beats the H3 over the head, but the departure angle is poor, probably because of the spare's location.

You do get 9.5 inches of clearance under the differentials and can do 27" of water. Actually the physical dimensions are very similar. Interestingly enough you have to add underbody protection to an H3 and an LR3 to get decent protection. The LR3 does offer something I haven't seen on one yet, a snorkel in the accessories picker. I wonder what kind of wading you can do then? There's no specs on it. Heck, there's even a cage for Shaggy:

http://www.landroverusa.com/us/en/Vehicles/LR3/Accessories/LR3Accessories_Racks_and_Storage_B700F531-454F-4512-914F-FA6C45CA6B83_502x670.jpg


Let's see, also we have a 4-corner independent air suspension (which is probably a problem spot for LR), and you get 7,700 lbs towing capacity. That's more than my H2!:eek: Curb weight is 5,700lbs.


Well, I think tomorrow I might just go drive one of these things. Just for the hell of it. Maybe they will let me take my H2 over the course too. :D

Wow, in May only 1,549 LR3's were sold. That's down 12.6% from last year.


Finally, LR says there is 10 inches front and 13 inches rear wheel travel. Is this a lot? I can't find the specs on the H3's travel. The DAKAR version has 20, but that doesn't even look like an H3 anymore..

[Aubs]

What, an LR3 actually doing something somewhat interesting?

http://static.flickr.com/58/167485268_fa0f05e587.jpg

http://www.flickr.com/photos/16177735@N00/?saved=1

[Aubs]

Aren't I nice, compiling all of this LR3 information? :D

Here are some vids. The water fording is actually pretty cool.

http://www.uae4x4.com/vids/lr3.htm

[DRTYFN]

...

Fine. Here's your favorite kind of fetish pr0n.
***EXTREMELY NWS***
http://www.elcovaforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=256232#post256232

[drmiles]

I backed into one in the parking lot. 3,000 dollars damage took out the bumper, reartail light and quater panel. Hummer suffered a 1 inch scratch in the black bumper cover!!! :D :D :D :D :D


Granted, I do some research and give up, I just wanted to know if the LR3 would hold ground against an H2 or H3. It's got similar ground clearance, though poor approach and departure angles. There doesn't seem to be as much room for articulation in the wheel wells either. Just was curious to know what everyone thinks.

[Wisha Haddan H3]

Finally, LR says there is 10 inches front and 13 inches rear wheel travel. Is this a lot? I can't find the specs on the H3's travel. The DAKAR version has 20, but that doesn't even look like an H3 anymore..
Yeah, that's a lot ... leads the pack. By comparison:

2006 H1 Alpha - 9" fr, 9" rear
2006 H2 - 8.7" fr, 10.8 rear
2005 Grd Cherokee - 8.9" fr, 8.8" rear
2007 FJ Cruiser - 7.9" fr, 9.1" rear
2006 Liberty - 8" fr, 8" rear
2000 4runner - 7.9" fr, 6" rear
2005 Xterra - 7" fr, 10" rear
1995 Samurai - 5" fr, 6" rear

[Aubs]

So I went and drove the LR3 today. And it was a good driver, but nothing really exciting. It was way overpriced, and like two models on the lot of 30 had a rear locker. So essentially, unless I wanted the $60,000 model, I couldn't get a locker.

They claimed the LR3 would kill the H3 and H2, but I think that it's a bunch of hooey. It certainly can do a very impressive side slope (we did a 35 degree at the dealership), and the independent suspension works like a solid rear axle in that the air is transferred from one side to another so you get a similar effect.

However, impressive as the specs might be, the underbody is NOT armored in the least, and LR makes no factory parts to solve this problem. The exhaust is also in a position where you would probably pinch it shut as it is the lowest point on the vehicle for the most part.

The transfer case is tucked up inside the frame which I thought was nice. But I wouldn't get this vehicle. I think a Hummer would just beat it out any day. It's got to be modified with sliders and plates for one thing, and it's hard to even find the rear locker on one. It probably wouldn't climb a wall, and the bumper in the back sticks out way too far. As the salesman said to me (and this was probably a deal breaker in itself), "Well, at least it's not some cheap pickup truck that's been made heavier and called a Hummer." He continually pointed out how the H2 and H3 suck balls, and I was kinda pissed.Um, the tow hooks are hidden under plastic parts which you can easily remove, but I thought that was silly. Um, I don't want to write anymore. In the end, maybe the LR3 could keep up with a Hummer, but I think it would probably not be able to follow in the same path and survive for long.

[Michael1]

I've been doing a lot of shopping lately, and comparing features on true off-road vehicles. While the LR3 looks too pretty to be a formidable off-road vehicle, every test and report from the field has proven otherwise. Apparentley, Land Rover does know what they are doing with traction control and suspension systems. The words "unstoppable" are used over and over, which is pretty amazing considering it rides on 30" street tires. They also know how to build an SUV with a usable interior, meaning all the seats fold flat, and you've got a flat load space that's 6 feet long. You could easily sleep in this thing. They also have a tailgate so you can put even longer items in.

The underbody is very flat, with no protrusions to catch rocks. As was mentioned, the armour is limited. All the major pieces such as fuel tank, and transfer case are covered, but it is not the full cage available for the H3. LR does sell rock rails, and a HD front skid plate through their accessories catalog. The snorkel is not water tight, but prevents water from splashing into the engine intake while fording up to 27".

The air suspension is amazing. It lifts the truck 2" when you set the conditions control to one of the off-road settings. There are settings for mud, sand, ruts, and rocks. It adjusts the suspension height, locks the center and rear differentials, and adjusts the traction control and throttle. Now here is the amazing part. If the truck electronics detect that you are high sided. It will lift the truck another 1.5 inches so you can get free. If that isn't enough to get you free, you can manually adjust it up another 1.5 inches for a total of 3 inches! That's above the normal off-road ground clearance of 9.45 inches.

Even though it has independent front and rear suspension, LR cross links them so it becomes an "anti-roll bar". Motor Trend measured the RTI at 518, which is almost the same as the H3 they measured at 521. So much for requiring solid axles to get good RTI.

You don't need to spend $60K for a rear locker version either. It's a $625 option on all models including the V6 version which retails for $39K.

So where does the LR3 fall down compared to the H3? The crawl ratio for the LR3 is 45.6, compared to the H3's 68.9 with the manual transmission. Oh, and there is no manual transmission available (big minus for me!). The V6LR3 has about the same acceleration performance as the H3, but requires premium gas, and gets 2 miles per gallon poorer fuel economy. Also the seat adjusters are not as complete as the luxury version of the H3, and they eliminated the lumbar adjustment on the LR3 in 2006 for some strange reason with a side air bag redesign. I was able to get more comfortable in the H3, although the LR3 on-road ride is better and it is slightly quieter. With the factory accessories, the H3 is certainly better armored. The H3 is a better value, too, being about $8K less expensive for a comparable vehicle.

While there is a lot to like about the LR3 (nice things GM could copy), I would say if you are off-road, and had to get home again, I'd be in the H3.

Michael

[Aubs]

You don't need to spend $60K for a rear locker version either. It's a $625 option on all models including the V6 version which retails for $39K.

So where does the LR3 fall down compared to the H3? The crawl ratio for the LR3 is 45.6, compared to the H3's 68.9 with the manual transmission. Oh, and there is no manual transmission available (big minus for me!). The V6LR3 has about the same acceleration performance as the H3, but requires premium gas, and gets 2 miles per gallon poorer fuel economy. Also the seat adjusters are not as complete as the luxury version of the H3, and they eliminated the lumbar adjustment on the LR3 in 2006 for some strange reason with a side air bag redesign. I was able to get more comfortable in the H3, although the LR3 on-road ride is better and it is slightly quieter. With the factory accessories, the H3 is certainly better armored. The H3 is a better value, too, being about $8K less expensive for a comparable vehicle.

While there is a lot to like about the LR3 (nice things GM could copy), I would say if you are off-road, and had to get home again, I'd be in the H3.

Michael

I found that I couldn't find anything in stock that had the rear locker that wasn't an SE or HSE, so that's why the high price. Theoretically, it's cheap enough, but it's not really on the base models. They just do not order/build these cars for people looking to beat them up. I mean, the catalog is essentially worthless, and the H3 catalog makes the LR3 catalog look like just pretty eye candy. I think that the LR3 could do alright, but there's no way I'd buy one to find out. I haven't seen enough evidence that makes me believe it will be what I'd like, especially for the price.

I still think the exhaust is way too exposed, and there are these little metal fins on the rear suspension to hide the exhaust, perfect for getting hung up on.

Additionally, I think the H3 is a much, much better value. You can get one, loaded with Nav, brushguards, upgraded armor, off-road lights, roof crossbows, and whatever else you might want for less than most LR3's. That's kind of biased I guess, because with the LR3 you get better acceleration, cornering, safety, room, etc. but as a pure off-roader that's acceptable on-road, the H3 is definately the better choice. On-road, the LR3 is a much better performer. I threw this one I drove into a hard corner, and could feel the cornering brake system come on and stop it from rolling. It was pretty cool. Not sure I'd do that in the H3.

I do like the folding flat seats, and the third row WILL ACTUALLY ACCOMODATE TWO ADULT HUMANS, who can sit normally, with legroom and cupholders. That is awesome in my opinion. And LR makes a lot better use of the size. The LR3 is near the size of my H2, but has drastically better storage, visibility, and versatility. The Nav system is fun because it shows you the position of the front tires, which I can see being helpful off-road. I'm always hanging out trying to figure out how they're turned.

I wish they would have let me borrow it this weekend, I could have taken it out and really driven it properly. LR is not concerned with selling this to people like us, so they really don't demonstrate the abilities too well. The test track is a sideslope and some cobbles. I still have mixed thoughts on this thing. I don't think I'd be happy with it in all honesty. It's maybe more practical than the H3, but off-road I might be taking the bypass.

As far as the armor, I couldn't find any skid plates in the US catalog, and there are sliders, but they're not for off-roading. They're about 3 inches in diameter, and they come in black or CHROME, and would probably do nothing to protect your sills. The chrome says it all.

[Aubs]

Also, the guy at the dealership claimed the LR3 could do all of the hardcore stuff in Moab (and actually did), but I think that's like saying Bigfoot exists. There are more pictures and evidence to prove Bigfoot's existence than the LR3 surviving Moab.

He told me that the LR3 could also do Spring Creek, "but would sustain damage."

[CslRkH2]

Also, the guy at the dealership claimed the LR3 could do all of the hardcore stuff in Moab (and actually did), but I think that's like saying Bigfoot exists. There are more pictures and evidence to prove Bigfoot's existence than the LR3 surviving Moab.

He told me that the LR3 could also do Spring Creek, "but would sustain damage."

One of the off road mags had a review and pics of a completely stock S/C RANGE rover going up Wipe Out Hill in Moab. They said it didn't slip a tire on the way up. Granted wheeling in Moab is easy compared to places like Colorado :D but I would have faith in their TCS and off road ability.

I would never buy one though due to their consistent poor reliability.

[Michael1]

I still think the exhaust is way too exposed, and there are these little metal fins on the rear suspension to hide the exhaust, perfect for getting hung up on.

I believe those are heat shields to protect the spare tire. They are pretty far up there, but I suppose they could get hung up.

I wish they would have let me borrow it this weekend, I could have taken it out and really driven it properly. LR is not concerned with selling this to people like us, so they really don't demonstrate the abilities too well.

And the Hummer dealer let you take out an H3 for the weekend?:rolleyes: Go on one of the LR Adventure days, just like I did with the Hummer dealer today. By the way, the H3 is fantastic off-road.

As far as the armor, I couldn't find any skid plates in the US catalog, and there are sliders, but they're not for off-roading. They're about 3 inches in diameter, and they come in black or CHROME, and would probably do nothing to protect your sills. The chrome says it all.

I think you may have been looking at the step bars. The sliders are absolutely for off-roading. Side Protection Tubes P/N VTD500010.
They have both, just like Hummer.

Good luck with your decision.

Michael

[blindzebra]

I'm sorry but did anyone see OJ run by in the suspension flex video??? I lost it when he ran by!:D

[31_bandits]

somewhat related:

i'm no expert in off-roading. Thusly disclaimed, some simple physics can be applied to estimate/guesstimate some things.

like a 35 deg side slope... i think the H2 is rated by hummer for 20-something, not nearly as impressive as the LR3's spec. But the reality is that side-slope-capability would boil down to

1. weight of vehicle
2. width of vehicle
3. heigh of center of gravity
4. traction of the tires going sideways
and maybe how much pressure it takes to pull a tire off a rim in some wildly extreme case.

2. and 3. are going to define when the vehicle will start to tip, and 1 and 4 are going to define when it would start to slide. When the weight times some tangent or sine of the angle exceeds traction, you slide. When the center of gravity moves outside of the lower wheel, you tip.

no mystical property (as far as i can figure this evening) can overcome those basic things.

as for car-magazine review of offroading capability... yawn.

same for jeep magazine reviews, where hummer bias will usually dominate the review, or at least often dominate the review. I remember once an article "set out to prove" that the H1 was far worse than a stock wrangler w/o lockers, and the article had about 15,085 comments about the cost of the H1, and basically seemed wildly price-jaded.

They may or may not have included an actual comment on offroading among the cost-insults/panic, i can't remember. so...

yawn. lol

[31_bandits]

another thing to consider when weighing H3 -vs- LR3 is that land rover has a remarkably consistently bad reliability record.

That's too bad because i like the looks of the 'rovers, and the 'rover guys seem to be pretty smooth. FWIW, a 'rover salesman that i talked to didn't knock the H2, and didn't claim that the Range could keep up with it, though he stopped short of calling the H2 better. He just mentioned other things, like refinement and all.

[Aubs]

another thing to consider when weighing H3 -vs- LR3 is that land rover has a remarkably consistently bad reliability record.

That's too bad because i like the looks of the 'rovers, and the 'rover guys seem to be pretty smooth. FWIW, a 'rover salesman that i talked to didn't knock the H2, and didn't claim that the Range could keep up with it, though he stopped short of calling the H2 better. He just mentioned other things, like refinement and all.

Yes, LR has a horrible reliability record. Most British cars do. And the LR3 is still riddled with problems. The salesman claimed they were 'computer issues' and that a hardware upgrade was due out. I have a feeling the air suspension is probably also an issue.

He called the LR3 "A gentleman's SUV, a different way of travelling off the highway. We do not like to bounce and gun it. We prefer to remain composed.":rolleyes:

The thing was pretty boring though. It just didn't give me a hard-on when I sat inside, unlike NoMoGMPG's H1. :D

[LR3_OWNER]

The crawl ratio is a good metric for determining how much control you'll have going over rocks and such, but lost here is the fact that the LR3 also has Hill Descent Control (HDC). While the HDC pretty much sucks on ice/snow, on rocks it is amazing. Coupled with the independent suspension, it provides even more slow-speed control over rocks and really does feel like the vehicle is carefully walking down a rocky slope. It affords ridiculous control of the vehicle.

The H3 is quite capable....more so in my opinion, than the (big for the sake of being big) H2. However, the LR3 could easily keep up with the H3, and do so with style. That is the difference....

For what it's worth, I think the Jeep Wrangler Rubicon would beat BOTH vehicles for pure off-road duty.

[ZigsRig]

Holy Old Post Batman.... :drama:

[RazM]

The crawl ratio is a good metric for determining how much control you'll have going over rocks and such, but lost here is the fact that the LR3 also has Hill Descent Control (HDC). While the HDC pretty much sucks on ice/snow, on rocks it is amazing. Coupled with the independent suspension, it provides even more slow-speed control over rocks and really does feel like the vehicle is carefully walking down a rocky slope. It affords ridiculous control of the vehicle.

The H3 is quite capable....more so in my opinion, than the (big for the sake of being big) H2. However, the LR3 could easily keep up with the H3, and do so with style. That is the difference....

For what it's worth, I think the Jeep Wrangler Rubicon would beat BOTH vehicles for pure off-road duty.

I like what Four Wheeler recently said, that the H3 can do 95% of what a Rubicon can, but in comfort and style (and in the case of the Alpha, more on-road power)

The LR3 simply would not be able to follow an H3 through many obstacles, Put 35's on an H3 (with no lift required to do so, I might add) and the LR3 just doesn't compare.

[dochummer]

I own an LR3 and an H2. The LR3 can't keep up even with A/T tires.

[LR3_OWNER]

Actually...just look at the two rigs (H2 and LR3). The fact that we are even having this conversation is an indictment of the H2. Look at it! Why should the LR3 be able to keep up with that beast? The H2 is big just to be big. Look at the measures of capability; gear ratios, wheel travel, ground clearance, power-to-weight. The LR3 is right there with the H2; and I don't believe for a second that the LR3 cannot "keep up" with anyone's H2, EXCEPT in the case where approach/departure angle becomes an issue.

...of course with 35s on an H3 that brings size and clearance issues into play. Likewise with an H2. Physical stature aside, I won't buy that the LR3 can't compete with the H2's traction and handling off-road. There is no reason for me to believe that based on what's on-board.

I like the H3. I actually think it's far superior to the H2. I didn't know it had a 4:1 low-range; that's impressive, like the Rubi. No front lockers though, right?

[RuggedH2]

I like the H3. I actually think it's far superior to the H2.
This statement alone proves that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

Far superior how?

I have both, and would like to hear your answer in spite of the fact that just about everything else you've stated here was stupid.

If you're going to resurrect ancient threads, at least say something intelligent.

[LR3_OWNER]

It's superior because of its gear ratio and it's the "right size" instead of being too big for its own tie-rods !

Plus...pay attention, look at my screen name. I'm obviously trying to push your buttons, which was remarkably easy.

I just feel like the H2 is too big. ...and for all that brawn its specs are unimpressive.

...and this may be an old thread but I'm a newcomer. If you are uninterested then don't reply.

[dochummer]

Well, unlike you, I also own the H2 and have had chances to wheel both under similar circumstances. The H2 in stock form outperforms the LR3 with oversized all-terrain tires. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against the LR3. It would be my fourth choice after the Hummer(1,2,3). It has impressive abilities on paper and on/off-road but my personal experiences show that it is not as capable overall. My most recent test came with some access road wheeling. There was a small stream running across the trail, and the LR3 got stuck in the mud. Even with the LR3 in extended height mode, it didn't go anywhere. Ended up scratching the rims pretty badly as I was trying to get some momentum to get unstuck. The mud was up to the front bumper and driver's side sill. I had my cousin's stock H2 pull me back out, and then tried 2 more times to get through the same area. No good. I finally had to take a completely different line to get around the newly dug hole. Immediately afterwards, the H2 was driven through the middle of the hole, following my original line and had NO issues making it to the other side.

[LR3_OWNER]

...better (low) gear ratio for starters. Better fuel economy. Not too big so that it can't even fit down trails. Doesn't bust tie-rods because it's overweight.

...should I continue?

To be honest I don't know much about the H3 except that I PERSONALLY like it better. Take that for what it's worth. If you want to compare against the LR3 I can do that intelligently all day long.

The fact that this thread started by someone comparing the HUGE H2 to the comparatively dimunitive LR3 is an indictment on GM's inability to get it right with that model. It is, shall I say, "big for the sake of being big." This only indicates a lack of creativity and/or real design effort on the part of GM's Engineers.

Finally, look at my login name, Einstein....you have to expect that part of my mission in resurrecting this post is to irritate you and push your buttons. Mission accomplished.

[RazM]

Actually...just look at the two rigs (H2 and LR3). The fact that we are even having this conversation is an indictment of the H2. Look at it! Why should the LR3 be able to keep up with that beast? The H2 is big just to be big. Look at the measures of capability; gear ratios, wheel travel, ground clearance, power-to-weight. The LR3 is right there with the H2; and I don't believe for a second that the LR3 cannot "keep up" with anyone's H2, EXCEPT in the case where approach/departure angle becomes an issue.

...of course with 35s on an H3 that brings size and clearance issues into play. Likewise with an H2. Physical stature aside, I won't buy that the LR3 can't compete with the H2's traction and handling off-road. There is no reason for me to believe that based on what's on-board.

I like the H3. I actually think it's far superior to the H2. I didn't know it had a 4:1 low-range; that's impressive, like the Rubi. No front lockers though, right?

Your arguement runs in circles. The whole idea behind a well designed offroad vehicle are its proportions, and how those proportions relate to obstacles. It's very accurate (and amusing) when you say "...the LR3 [can] "keep up" with anyone's H2, EXCEPT in the case where approach/departure angle becomes an issue." I don't know what trails you've driven, but even the most basic will have you encounter obstacles where approach and departure angles are key.

You can have all the traction control systems in the world, if you can't get your tires on an obstacle, you're going nowhere, atleast without body damage.

The H2 and H3 both allow for the most wheel clearance of any competing 4x4, allowing them to run larger tires than the competition, without requiring a lift. This alone gives the H2 and H3 an edge over an LR3. Add to that the better angles, and it's not that hard to see why it would outperform your precious Land Rover.

BTW, on your final question about H3's and front lockers, yes, they're getting them in the '09 models.

Finally, the only mission you've accomplished it to show us all how little you understand on the basics of offroading. If that's what you set out to do, well, mission accomplished :notallthere:

[dochummer]

I wouldn't consider 12mpg in the city and 15mpg on the highway much of an "improvement" over the H2.... :notallthere:

[Vettster]

...better (low) gear ratio for starters. Better fuel economy. Not too big so that it can't even fit down trails. Doesn't bust tie-rods because it's overweight.

...should I continue?

To be honest I don't know much about the H3 except that I PERSONALLY like it better. Take that for what it's worth. If you want to compare against the LR3 I can do that intelligently all day long.

The fact that this thread started by someone comparing the HUGE H2 to the comparatively dimunitive LR3 is an indictment on GM's inability to get it right with that model. It is, shall I say, "big for the sake of being big." This only indicates a lack of creativity and/or real design effort on the part of GM's Engineers.

Finally, look at my login name, Einstein....you have to expect that part of my mission in resurrecting this post is to irritate you and push your buttons. Mission accomplished.

Let me see. No profile and only 4 posts. (All to the same thread)
Dissing a vehicle that you admit to never having driven. (but, You say you like the pictures:lame: .
Admitting that you come onto the forum just to stir up things.

Seems to me that you should change your user name to LR3_Troll.:fdance:

Come back when you have done your homework.

[LR3_OWNER]

I wasn't dissing the H3, just the H2...which I have in fact driven.

I regularly get 20 mpg on the freeway, so the gas mileage is far superior....forget the EPA estimates; they're not consistent with my experience.

As for the tire and ground clearance and my "circular argument." What I mean is that the H2 is much bigger than the LR3 and that does allow it to go places that the LR3 cannot go. It does not provide better traction or handle itself better over obstacles. That is not a circular argument....but I can see how it could sound like a contradiction. Let me make an analogy here to help you better understand my point. It is like having "weight classes" in wresting. You wouldn't expect a lightweight to beat a heavyweight....but in terms of technical abilty he may still be a better wrestler.

As for the poster that got stuck in the mud....I'd have to know more about your tires (on both rigs) and your driving ability before I can blame the Rover in this case. The size and wheelbase could've played a big role. What tires do you have on your LR3?

[RazM]

Let me make an analogy here to help you better understand my point. It is like having "weight classes" in wresting. You wouldn't expect a lightweight to beat a heavyweight....but in terms of technical abilty he may still be a better wrestler.

Except the LR3 can be compared to a lightweight who is wearing his trunks down at his ankles, he trips easily.

The whole point of a proper 4x4 comes down to how it's designed, minimal overhangs, maximum clearance. You can have all the traction control systems you want, if you can't fit decent tires or reach an obstacle without your body getting in the way, you're not going anywhere.

[dochummer]

12 mpg and 15 mpg are not estimates - they are real world results. My H2 gets 11 mpg and 15 mpg with the same driver...The EPA estimates aren't even close to what you'd expect.

BFG A/T's were run on both vehicles.

Have you been able to find any info on LR3's running the Rubicon Trail in California? Moab info/pics are also pretty limited although I know there are a few S.California guys who have run it. But as far as the Rubicon, I've looked, and sadly haven't found any yet.

Have you driven both vehicles off-road? If you're comparing on-road handling - the LR3 is somewhat more pleasurable in the city and has a much tighter turning radius. Parking is easier and you don't have to worry about roof clearance in parking garages. The highway, well - my wife and I both like the H2 better - especially for family trips/camping. For winter driving, either vehicle is great in the snow. However, I think the stability of the H2 is somewhat better than the LR3 - mostly because of it's track and size - it doesn't get pulled around as much in ruts. It is nice having stability control in the LR3 though. Off-road if you were to compare side by side, the H2 would have it beat. The size of the LR3 is better than the H2, and the traction control is impressive - but, the H2's approach and departure angles make it much more comfortable in more situations.

Yes, I agree you are comparing apples to oranges and the H3 would be a much better size comparison....



I wasn't dissing the H3, just the H2...which I have in fact driven.

I regularly get 20 mpg on the freeway, so the gas mileage is far superior....forget the EPA estimates; they're not consistent with my experience.

As for the tire and ground clearance and my "circular argument." What I mean is that the H2 is much bigger than the LR3 and that does allow it to go places that the LR3 cannot go. It does not provide better traction or handle itself better over obstacles. That is not a circular argument....but I can see how it could sound like a contradiction. Let me make an analogy here to help you better understand my point. It is like having "weight classes" in wresting. You wouldn't expect a lightweight to beat a heavyweight....but in terms of technical abilty he may still be a better wrestler.

As for the poster that got stuck in the mud....I'd have to know more about your tires (on both rigs) and your driving ability before I can blame the Rover in this case. The size and wheelbase could've played a big role. What tires do you have on your LR3?

[LR3_OWNER]

Well....14/20 mpg are MY real world results.

I hear what you're saying about angles, but there are other measures that you are neglecting.

What about gear ratios, suspension articulation (wheel travel), power-to-weight? The H2 is not great in those areas...I'm not just talking about traction control. ...and what about side-slope and gradient capability? The Hummer reports 60% and 40%....which is unimpressive.

I'm surprised to hear that you like the H2 better on long drives because frankly I can't see out of the thing.

There are some solid points being made in these posts; but I fear we're bordering on the realm of arguing taste and preference, which is futile.

[Boss Hoss]

Its clear to see i am ignorant and only want to talk about what is my personal preference and based on ignorance at that. Personally I prefer to e-wheel as wheeling in actuality would burst my bubble.

There are some solid points being made in these posts; but I fear we're bordering on the realm of arguing taste and preference, which is futile.


You must be new to ewheeling as you are not very good at it. How bout you put up or shut up. Since your LR3 is much smaller AND more capable so it should be able to walk circles around the H2....now post pics.

[LR3_OWNER]

changing my quote....very juvenile....and lame.

So, you want pics?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/16177735@N00/?saved=1

The pics on this website, posted earlier by Aubs is actually ME ! Now, I don't expect you to believe that carte blanche, but it is. I was amazed when I saw that picture on the board. I thought "you know what, I think that's me." Then I saw my flickr sight pasted in and clicked it and sure enough, it's me. Those were taken in Carmel back in 2006. I've also done the Experience Driving School in Montreal. ...and I go out a bit here in WA too.

How do I post pics directly into this box? I will do so when I figure it out, but clearly I'm not as e-savvy as you JOs !

By the way, speaking of e-wheeling...ever see the Hummer stuff on Comcast? Watching the H2 ford 27" of "Virtual Water" is a joke.

[LR3_OWNER]

I had to make this a small file, hence the name.

There are more pics, but I have a meeting and will have to post 'em later.

[dochummer]

Where do you wheel in WA?

[LR3_OWNER]

Most of the places are in Eastern Washington (Liberty, Fortune Creek, Manastash, Naches) but the picture above was actually at Tahuya on the Kitsap Peninsula. The stuff is admittedly easy, but hey...it's a stock rig and it's my daily driver! I think it's good just to get out and use a real SUV for what it's built for!

[dochummer]

You're definition of "eastern washington" is not quite what I'd consider "eastern." :) I live in the Tri-Cities. If I recall correctly, most of those trails are half way between here and Seattle? :). Have you run the Naches trail yet? The closest trails we have here are the Dunes and Hover Park....

[dochummer]

I just wish we had more runs like this closer to home.... :(

[LR3_OWNER]

You're right, that's more like Central WA. I have not done Naches myself, but several other members of a local Rovers club I run with have...and hopefully I will in the next few months.

Where was that picture taken?

[Boss Hoss]

I am very juvenile....and lame.

So, you want pics?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/16177735@N00/?saved=1



Hey nancy boy, i guess i need to spell this out. When i say put up or shut up, it means putting up pictures of your LR3 tackling terrain which would prove to be too much for the H2 or H3. What you have posted is for nancy boys who think they are wheeling. Search the forum for Moab, Fordyce, The Rubion, and Tellico and youll see what wheeling is like. Im very excited to see your LR3 on something other than a dirt hill.


By the way, speaking of e-wheeling...ever see the Hummer stuff on Comcast? Watching the H2 ford 27" of "Virtual Water" is a joke.

I agree your virtual ewheeling is lame. Lets play a game, find the 37in tire ;):

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y74/coryneal/pics15.jpg

[LR3_OWNER]

Boss,

So, let me see if I've got this straight....I"m a "Nancy-boy" because my SUV is smaller than yours? Is that about right?

I'm not going to engage in the name-calling game with you; I will choose to take the high road, but am quite certain that I could out wit you easily...especially if all you've got is "nancy-boy" and mis-quoting.

I would LOVE to post pics of me wheelin' in places where the H2 could not follow....trouble is, I can't find an H2 owner that is not a complete poser (22" rims, chrome, flash, no balls!) or that is willing to go out on a trail run with me.

...and that's the only way I can do what you ask; the H2 must be present...I can't just take a picture of the trail itself and expect that it would frighten you into submission. Indeed, the trails themselves are not necessarily imposing. My rig is smaller than the H2 (as noted) and if I can traverse it certainly the H2 can as well. However, where the LR3's advantage lies is in traction and hill-climbing. Therefore, it would have to be a situation where some numb-nuts H2 driver tries to drive across a rock-face or dirt side-slope that is too much for the Hummer and flips over....or maybe while trying to drive over a boulder-strewn path with less control (due to the poor gearing) they have to use too much throttle and snap a tie-rod. That's what I'll have to capture. That will be more difficult, but as soon as I get that footage, posting it here will be the FIRST thing I do, Hoss....rest assured.

I'm sure you've seen this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxrdwXXat14

[Boss Hoss]

Boss,

I would LOVE to post pics of me wheelin' in places where the H2 could not follow....trouble is, I can't ...

My rig is smaller than the H2 (as noted) and if I can traverse it certainly the H2 can as well.


The first step to recovery is admission. It does not change that you are ignorant but puts you on the path to success. My truck is a blinger and yes i have dubs....you are still welcome to wheel with me though and I will help with your rehabilitation to clear your misconceptions.

[LR3_OWNER]

"dubs" ....what a shock. Are they spinners?

Wow, you're even more hopeless than my H2-owning brother ! He talks a lot but then chickens out when I ask him to hit the trails with me. I figured all along that he is a typical H2 owner, I guess I was right.

Come back after you graduate from high school.

[BigPoppa1411]

:popcorn:

[dochummer]

Which LR group are you with? Any idea when your next trail run is?

The pic was taken on the Rubicon in California.

[Boss Hoss]

"dubs" ....what a shock. Are they spinners?

Wow, you're even more hopeless than my H2-owning brother ! He talks a lot but then chickens out when I ask him to hit the trails with me. I figured all along that he is a typical H2 owner, I guess I was right.

Come back after you graduate from high school.

There is a feature on the forum called "SEARCH" and my screen name is Boss Hoss. If you utilize this feature it will keep you from suffering foot in mouth syndrome.


I have no problem with fun brand rivalry. However, there is no place for your ignorance and ego on the trail. Hopefully youre just an etough guy coming to prove your point on the Hummer forum, but throw this out the window when you get on a real trail.

[LR3_OWNER]

"I have no problem with fun brand rivalry. However, there is no place for your ignorance and ego on the trail."

I agree with this...I'm just having a little e-fun with you. As it were, it seemed having an intelligent conversation about the two vehicles is impossible.

I did enjoy looking at the pics of H2s on the trail, using the renowned search feature. I retract any statement that implied you don't put up. You clearly use your SUV for its designed intention.

[LR3_OWNER]

I drove my bro's H2 over the weekend and everything I ever said about that vehicle has been confirmed. It rides like crap, you can't feel the road, or the terrain for that matter (we drove it off-road a bit, too). My favorite part is the (lack of) tracking. I turn the wheel, and the 3 ton beast does nothing. Applying the brakes only compels the driver to put his foot down on the pavement to attempt a "Flintstone-stop." Pathetic.

The H2 gets away with being poorly designed by GM due to its size.

[Mr. I - Man]

Go away troll nobody cares:yawn:

If this is an AE you must lead a pretty fvkking boring life.

[DennisAJC]

LOL @ LR3

LR3 belongs in the lower ranks of Hyundai SantaFes and Kia Sorentos.

I've never seen one out on the trails and most I see driving them is hot chicks or guys with makeup.

When a non Hummer owner comes on here sharing fantasies of his rig who's front bumper has a 5" clearence to the pavement, I feel pity, not anger.

:clapping::OWNED::clapping:

[DennisAJC]

LR3_OWNER = trailerpup = BANNED

:OWNED::OWNED::OWNED::OWNED:

[RuggedH2]

That explains a lot.

:OWNED:

[RuggedH2]

By the way........

Now that hiding behind anonymity is gone.

I have seen what you have done with the H3.......it was nice, you did a good job with it..........but.......you are welcome to bring it to Moab and I'll run the H2.

You will see how ignorant your conclusions have been on this thread.

I'm not biased.......I have both......I run both and like both........but there are reasons the H2 costs more.

[DennisAJC]

By the way........

Now that hiding behind anonymity is gone.

I have seen what you have done with the H3.......it was nice, you did a good job with it..........but.......you are welcome to bring it to Moab and I'll run the H2.

You will see how ignorant your conclusions have been on this thread.

I'm not biased.......I have both......I run both and like both........but there are reasons the H2 costs more.

Tazer him for us afterwards.:clapping:

[Sewie]

LR3_OWNER = trailerpup = BANNED


The IP appears to be an internet proxy server for Boeing. There are 70,000+ Boeing employees in WA. So the assumption is that only one person is logging in from Boeing? :confused:

[Badace]

No offense but a LR 3 looks Ghey. Why not get a Porche Cayanne, or a beamer SUV or a Mercedes SUV. Just weak. Give me a GM all day long. I love me some H2 and the H3 definitely is second. I would not get the H! because maintainence is just too much of a waste of $$$$. But this site does rule. I love the pics. H2 owners have no reason to even bite on these H2 haters hook. THey will never get it so go back to that wimpy LR3 (I guess that was offensive) and troll LR3 boards. When you are the King like the H2, you have Douche bags throwing things at you from all angles. So go away before they T-Bag you!

[almostajeep]

No offense but a LR 3 looks Ghey. Why not get a Porche Cayanne, or a beamer SUV or a Mercedes SUV. Just weak. Give me a GM all day long. I love me some H2 and the H3 definitely is second. I would not get the H! because maintainence is just too much of a waste of $$$$. But this site does rule. I love the pics. H2 owners have no reason to even bite on these H2 haters hook. THey will never get it so go back to that wimpy LR3 (I guess that was offensive) and troll LR3 boards. When you are the King like the H2, you have Douche bags throwing things at you from all angles. So go away before they T-Bag you!
Alert Alert Alert, Incorrect statement made on the net, system is trying to make correction, Beep Beep Beep, The King JK Rubicon, Beep Beep Beep The King JK Rubicon,..This alert will end when poster corrects his very big mistake...please make correction so I can cancel the Beep.
System also malfunctioned & now in laughing mode after posters rediculous staement...

[Badace]

Remeber that song, Dreeeams, Dreams Dreams Dreams Dreams, Dreeeams.

That is what the above post has playing in his head. A Chrysler motor vs A GM? Seriously. Call me when that jeep has 75k miles and is begging to be put down.;) :rolleyes:

[almostajeep]

Remeber that song, Dreeeams, Dreams Dreams Dreams Dreams, Dreeeams.

That is what the above post has playing in his head. A Chrysler motor vs A GM? Seriously. Call me when that jeep has 75k miles and is begging to be put down.;) :rolleyes:

Again,..for the ones that can't read & comprehend,...probably just to young,

Alert Alert Alert, Incorrect statement made on the net, system is trying to make correction, Beep Beep Beep, The King JK Rubicon, Beep Beep Beep The King JK Rubicon,..This alert will end when poster corrects his very big mistake...please make correction so I can cancel the Beep.
System also malfunctioned & now in laughing mode after posters ridiculous staement...

[Badace]

Maybe you need Phonics. Call me when you hit 75k miles on that pos. Chrysler motors can't hold GM's Jock. Also, I would not even cross the street to pee on a Jeep if it was on fire, but I would if it wasn't.

[almostajeep]

Maybe you need Phonics. Call me when you hit 75k miles on that pos. Chrysler motors can't hold GM's Jock. Also, I would not even cross the street to pee on a Jeep if it was on fire, but I would if it wasn't.
Youngster, I feel your group up some day & completely grow out of your yout little Boy thought process, have faith it'll happen..

[Badace]

You feel my Group up? Dude this is a forum for Hummers. Thats in 4x4 automobiles. Not some Old Man looking for young man molester Site. The fact is, there is a reason the jeep is bought buy mostly youngsters. 1 is it is cheaper, and 2 is you DA's don't know how to research and make a smart purchase. Their motors are crap. So eaon that?

[almostajeep]

You feel my Group up? Dude this is a forum for Hummers. Thats in 4x4 automobiles. Not some Old Man looking for young man molester Site. The fact is, there is a reason the jeep is bought buy mostly youngsters. 1 is it is cheaper, and 2 is you DA's don't know how to research and make a smart purchase. Their motors are crap. So eaon that?

Well I gave you the benefit of the doubt about growing up,....I was wrong, you'll stay just a (KID) "Dude". I actually feel sorry for you that you'll never get your "Manhood Papers", those are invisable ones you carry in your pocket that you earn over time. WoW! is our country in trouble with all you Boys that just refuse to growup. So "Dude" in your next life time I'll see in the (((Rice Paddy's))) & see if you can growup real QUICK or stand there & cry.. .

[RazM]

Well I gave you the benefit of the doubt about growing up,....I was wrong, you'll stay just a (KID) "Dude". I actually feel sorry for you that you'll never get your "Manhood Papers", those are invisable ones you carry in your pocket that you earn over time. WoW! is our country in trouble with all you Boys that just refuse to growup. So "Dude" in your next life time I'll see in the (((Rice Paddy's))) & see if you can growup real QUICK or stand there & cry.. .

Not to get in between a childish fight... BUT...

For someone who talks about age, maturity, wisdom... your actions on this forum show none of those traits.

If you wish to troll, first and foremost, be CREATIVE. There is nothing worse than a troll that constantly repeats the same lame gibberish all the time.

Come on man, you're giving Jeep troll's a bad name, wake up and use your old brain for a change
:popcorn:

[Badace]

[QUOTE=almostajeep So "Dude" in your next life time I'll see in the (((Rice Paddy's))) & see if you can growup real QUICK or stand there & cry.. .[/QUOTE]

Seriously? This is what you got for me? What in the hell does this even mean? I talk about haw Chrysler motors can't even be mentioned in the same breath as GM because at about 75-85k miles they turn into junk and all you can say is how I need man papers. You sir, are a douche. I can not even comprehend your argument. It has no Basis or bearing on the topic. A jeep is all you probably need to be able to afford. Go enjoy it D-Bag.

[timgco]

In my time away, I did some off-roading with my H2-driving brother, and have some footage to share that will be a nice punctuation to our little thread.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bH5aTFTZrpk

There you go. My H2- driving brother can;t drive for $$it Case-in-point.

QED.

Goodbye.

FIXED

[MikeXML320]

Hey douch-fag, I love the vid, it really showed what a turd you are??wow that was some hard-core wheeling?..can I have your autograph???? You must be really bored to take the time to post such a piece of $hit vid and to continue posting here claiming that you are the king of off-roading in your soccer mom suv?..Go f u ck yourself?.


I have a few vids for you, sally?

LR3 moab? video results 0 - 0 of about 0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPnfQoITD14 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPnfQoITD14)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71pjn-AR8PA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71pjn-AR8PA)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBC_wARCR18 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBC_wARCR18)
:OWNED:

[almostajeep]

Hey, we'll show that "LR3" guy... her's a few good ones also
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSnQX...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JaFA97VNGI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-n4ub...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6an_...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vt4KE...eature=related

[RuggedH2]

Hey, we'll show that "LR3" guy... her's a few good ones also
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSnQX...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JaFA97VNGI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-n4ub...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6an_...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vt4KE...eature=related

You post 5 links and 4 of them say "The URL contained a malformed video ID."

That copy and paste thing must be a real bitch for ya. :D

[DRTYFN]

LR3 rubicon? video results 0 - 0 of about 0
:OWNED:
?LR3 escalator? video results 0 - 0 of about 0
:OWNED:
?LR3 golden spike? video results 0 - 0 of about 0
:OWNED:
?LR3 hell's revenge? video results 0 - 0 of about 0:OWNED:

But at least the LR3 1 for 1 on one search.
?LR3 mall cruising? video results 1 - 1 of about 1
:OWNED:

[Michael1]

LR3_OWNER = trailerpup = BANNED

:OWNED::OWNED::OWNED::OWNED:




Darn! And it was just starting to get good, too.

Michael