Gunmen Attack National Guard Border Patrol Site in Arizona

[f5fstop]

When, will our legislators and President wake up and put an end to this ****. We arm the NG in Iraq, why can't we arm them in the USA to defend themselves on OUR border from Mexicans shooting at them.

I understand that the Posse Comitatus Act, prevents the the US Military and the National Guard, WHEN FEDERALIZED, from acting in a law enforcement capacity within the US borders. So, let's de-federalize them, let the States control them, and allow them to be armed. If this doesn't work, the President should use the Insurrection Act, which allows for the President to us Federal troops if a natural disaster, epidemic occur, a serious public health emergency, terrorist attack, or other condition, when the President determines that the authorities of the state are incapable of maintaining public order. Not sure about anyone else, but I consider this illegal **** from Mexico to be an epidemic of illegals which is the same as a terrorist attack.
http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m252/f5fstop/rant.gif


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,241783,00.html

Gunmen Attack National Guard Border Patrol Site in Arizona

Friday, January 05, 2007

E-MAIL STORY PRINTER FRIENDLY VERSION
TUCSON, Ariz. ? National Guard troops working at an observatory post near the Mexican border were forced to flee after being approached by a group of armed individuals, authorities said.

The event occurred about 11 p.m. Wednesday at one of the National Guard entrance identification team posts near Sasabe, said National Guard Sgt. Edward Balaban.

He said the troops withdrew safely, no shots were fired and no one suffered injuries.

U.S. Border Patrol officials are investigating the incident and trying to determine who the armed people were, what they were doing and why they approached the post before retreating to Mexico.

The incident occurred in the west desert corridor between Nogales and Lukeville in the vicinity of Sasabe, Balaban said.

"We don't know exactly how many because obviously it took place in the dark," Balaban said. "Nobody was able to get an accurate count."

The Guard troops are not allowed to apprehend illegal entrants.

"We don't know if this was a matter of somebody coming up accidentally on the individuals, coming up intentionally on the individuals, or some sort of a diversion," said Rob Daniels, spokesman for the Border Patrol's Tucson Sector.

The west desert corridor has been the busiest in the Tucson Sector for marijuana seizures since last year.

Agents have seized 124,000 pounds of marijuana there since Oct. 1, Daniels said.

With more Border Patrol agents and National Guard troops patrolling the Arizona section of the U.S.-Mexican border, it has become more difficult to smuggle drugs and people across and "that heightened frustration may have been connected to what took place last night," Daniels said.

Officials will make a decision following the investigation about whether changes need to be made in regard to the entrance identification teams, Balaban said.

Since arriving in mid-June, the Guard has assisted the Border Patrol by manning control rooms, doing vehicle and helicopter maintenance, repairing roads and fences, constructing vehicle barriers and fences and spotting and reporting illegal entrants in entrance identification teams.

There are dozens of National Guard entrance identification teams along the Mexican border, including east and west of both Nogales and Sasabe and on the Tohono O'odham Nation.

The troops stand post on hilltops next to army-green tents and serve as extra eyes and ears for the Border Patrol.

[Arizona Hummerboy]

I would like to see the National Guard have the right to Kick Some Ass when this Sh!t Happends.

[K9sH3]

[QUOTE=f5fstop]When, will our legislators and President wake up and put an end to this ****. We arm the NG in Iraq, why can't we arm them in the USA to defend themselves on OUR border from Mexicans shooting at them.


QUOTE]


:iagree:

Isn't the whole point of them being there is to protect??? or do they collect the cell phones to give back to the Mexican Gov't, so they can give to the next group of illegals.
F5 is right, so damn right! this is shiat

[RuggedH2]

Does anyone actually think the Mexicans would attack if they thought for one second that the Americans would return fire and counter attack?

They know we are so tangled in bureaucracy and political correctness that we are almost helpless. The "regulations" don't even allow us to defend ourselves. This is insane.

We are being invaded by a foreign country. The national mindset seems to be "whatever, they work cheap".

Doesn't look good for the future.

[Wisha Haddan H3]

Agreed, if you're going to co-opt the NG into border security, they need to be able to do more than withdraw if there's a problem.

I'm confused about the article tho. The title says gunmen "attacked", but the article says "no shots were fired". So did the mexicans actually fire their weapons or just wave them in the air? I thought the NG could return fire if fired upon.

[DennisAJC]

I'm confused about the article tho. The title says gunmen "attacked", but the article says "no shots were fired". So did the mexicans actually fire their weapons or just wave them in the air? I thought the NG could return fire if fired upon.

:giggling: Over imaginative, over reactive, paranoid kids there. Probably making up stories again to fuel their boring daily duties. Will they get Purple Hearts for their act of bravery?:giggling:

I had Mexicans stand too close to my rig at an Idaho gas station one time, so I guess I was a victim of an attempted car jacking.

[f5fstop]

This was also on TV. The NG is unarmed at the border due to Posse Comitatus, so they are in an observation mode only. The armed Mexicans were drug runners who surged across the border, causing the NG to retreat since they had not way to defend themselves against armed invaders.
Do shots have to be fired to say that an invasion is armed? If there are a number of Mexicans running surging across the US Border, and they are armed, yes it is an armed invasion of people who are not entering this country legally.
Sad part is if I was on the border as a civilian, I could be legally armed. Some Minutemen are armed...legally. So why not the NG?

I say one way to help this influx of these people, is to arm the NG, and shoot when necessary.

[tanklizard]

The arizona central newspaper has an article about this that explains it alot better:
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0106border-incident0106USE.html

Guard soldiers back off from armed men out of Mexico


Matthew Benson
The Arizona Republic
Jan. 6, 2007 12:00 AM

A Border Patrol official says National Guard troops acted appropriately this week when they abandoned their post near the border southwest of Tucson as four gunmen approached from Mexico.

It is the nearest that Guard members have come to an armed conflict on the border since spring when President Bush pledged up to 6,000 soldiers to help slow illegal immigration along the nation's 1,950-mile southern border.

No shots were fired in the incident, and no one was injured. Border Patrol spokesman Mario Martinez stressed that "there was no attack." advertisementhttp://www.azcentral.com/imgs/clear.gifOAS_AD('ArticleFlex_1')http://www.azcentral.com/imgs/clear.gif

But he added, "It's a serious situation. We're not trying to say it wasn't a serious situation. We've never had an incident where there were gunmen this close to a post."

It also raises questions in the eyes of critics who say the border mission has placed Guard troops in an awkward position. Guardsmen are strictly in a backup role along the border. That means performing administrative functions, building roads and fences, even conducting surveillance in some cases, such as with the team near Tucson.

But they're never to confront or attempt to apprehend border crossers.

"What are we paying our National Guard to do (along the border)? That is the question," said Don Goldwater, who led a failed campaign for governor last year on his promise to crack down on illegal immigration.

"We're putting the National Guard down in harm's way along the border with no intention to allow them to protect themselves."

Goldwater is the nephew of the late Arizona Sen. Barry Goldwater, a former presidential candidate.

The armed confrontation took place about 11 p.m. Wednesday near Sasabe about a quarter-mile north of the border. A team of four or five Guard members, armed with M-16s, were watching for border crossers at an observation post when they spotted four men carrying what appeared to be rifles, Martinez said.

As the men came closer, the soldiers left their post and called for the Border Patrol.

"In order to not be detected, they moved to a safer location," Martinez said. "That's exactly what we want them to do.

"They're armed for their protection. Once they are afraid for their lives, they can defend themselves.

"That was not the case."

Border Patrol agents responded within minutes and scoured the area by helicopter and on the ground, but the gunmen could not be located. Their tracks showed that they had arrived near the observation post after crossing into the United States from Mexico.

Armed individuals crossing remote areas of the border typically are smuggling drugs, Martinez said, though it is unknown who the gunmen were in this incident. It's also uncertain whether the men were scouting the observation post, testing National Guard response or merely stumbled upon the soldiers.

Martinez wouldn't say whether troops have since returned to the observation post, but he noted that "we're still monitoring the area; we'll probably be monitoring the area closely for a while."

Gov. Janet Napolitano's staff was briefed about the incident by the Arizona National Guard, but it deferred comment to the U.S. Department of Homeland Security. A spokesman from that office did not respond to a phone message left by The Arizona Republic.

Barrett Marson, spokesman for state House Speaker Jim Weiers, said "legislative leaders have not been briefed on the situation but would like some information."

State Sen. Chuck Gray, a Republican and retired Mesa police officer, was surprised that Guard members would run in the face of an armed threat, unless they were seeking protective cover.

"I can tell you, as a police officer of 10 years, there was never a policy to flee," he said. "If they're running for cover, that's different than running away."

Illegal immigration moved to the forefront of American politics in the past few years. Polls consistently have said it is one of the top issues in the minds of Arizonans, and Napolitano and New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson declared border emergencies for their respective states in August 2005.

Nearly one year ago to the day, Napolitano used her State of the State address to call for the federal government to pay for the deployment of the National Guard to the border. In the spring, she got her wish with Bush's announcement of Operation Jump Start, a plan to use thousands of Guard members to tighten the border until new Border Patrol agents could be hired and trained.

Roughly 5,700 Guard members are stationed along the border, more than a quarter of whom are in Arizona. It is hoped that they can be pulled back by 2008.

Initial reports indicate the program has reduced illegal crossings. Apprehensions were down 11.4 percent in Arizona from 2005 to 2006, and down 8.5 percent for the four border states.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sounds like the Guardsman did exactely what they were ordered to do. They're not the ones that make policy, they're just the ones that get stuck following it.

Also I kind of doubt the Guardsman said they were "attacked." Much more likely the news came up with that little piece of misinformation to sell more papers with.

[f5fstop]

Very strange, on TV and in one news article they said they could not be arrmed to due the US law.
Either way, armed or not, they should be allowed to shoot anyone crossing the border illegally, and in my opinion...armed or unarmed.

[DennisAJC]

Do shots have to be fired to say that an invasion is armed?

Woah!!!! It was an invasion now??? Sensational!

I love how rumors get inflated and dramtic as it travels down the line. In two weeks the death toll will be at 50.:giggling:


No shots were fired in the incident, and no one was injured. Border Patrol spokesman Mario Martinez stressed that "there was no attack."

Oh the drama. For nothing special.

[DRTYFN]

Oh, that's just great - 4 more armed Mexican illegals in the country.:rolleyes:

[f5fstop]

The word Invasion, I believe, can me any number of people.
Can I ask what the unarmed Canadian border patrol agents would do (throw buffalo chips)? Or did Canada finally arm their own agents?

I was totally shocked a few month ago when crossing the border, to find out that Canadian agents are unarmed, and have to rely on the OPP ( in Ontario) for protection. Here they were, searching me and my vehicle for handguns, and they were armed with Mace and a billy club. Strange a country does not even trust their own law enforcement to be armed, but then again, Canada is just a colony of Great Britain, and most Bobbies are unarmed; as well as all their citizens on the islands.

Well, I guess they will be armed...eventually:
"CEUDA Pleased the Government is Honouring its
Promise to Arm and Double-up Border

AUG 31 ... Today’s announcement by the Right Honourable Prime Minister Stephen Harper that the New Government remains committed to arming Officers at the Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA) and to doubling-up one-person shifts comes as welcome news to the Customs Excise Union Douanes Accise (CEUDA), which represents 9,000 members working in CBSA."

Good to hear, Canada is not identical to Mother England.:twak:

[DennisAJC]

The word Invasion, I believe, can me any number of people.
Can I ask what the unarmed Canadian border patrol agents would do (throw buffalo chips)? Or did Canada finally arm their own agents?
I love how this topic has move from one country to feably attempting to insult next.:giggling:

I was totally shocked a few month ago when crossing the border, to find out that Canadian agents are unarmed, But why do they need to be armed?? and have to rely on the OPP ( in Ontario)Nope, that's wrong again. for protection RCMP here are the best in the world. There's no need;) . Here they were, searching me and my vehicle for handguns HAHAHA!!!:OWNED: , and they were armed with Mace and a billy club. Strange a country does not even trust their own law enforcement to be armed Not about trust. There's just no need., but then again, Canada is just a colony of Great Britain, and most Bobbies are unarmed; as well as all their citizens on the islands.

Good to hear, Canada is not identical to Mother England.:twak: We're still sovreign to the Queen.

I believe guns serve many purposes. But I also have an opposite view to your view that guns make you strong and righteous. It doesn't work as the current global situations prove.;)

[RuggedH2]

Woah!!!! It was an invasion now??? Sensational!

I love how rumors get inflated and dramtic as it travels down the line. In two weeks the death toll will be at 50.:giggling:

Oh the drama. For nothing special.

How many people live in Canada? 35 million yet?

http://www.cnn.com/interactive/us/0603/charts.immigration/frameset.exclude.html?eref=yahoo

So, Canadians don't think America has an invasion? If the suspected number of illegal Mexicans were in Canada, they would be almost 1 in every 3 there.

The incident described above is one situation. They have killed multiple border agents in the last few years. There have been reports of Mexican soldiers firing into the US to provide cover for drug smugglers and human traffickers.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11226144/

It goes on and on, this is not one incident, it's just another example.

[RuggedH2]

Oh, that's just great - 4 more armed Mexican illegals in the country.:rolleyes:

4? I wish I live where you live.

We had a stolen vehicle with 4 armed Mexican Nationals, fire on police last night during a pursuit at 3:00 am. It didn't even make the local news this morning.

[PARAGON]

I believe guns serve many purposes. But I also have an opposite view to your view that guns make you strong and righteous. It doesn't work as the current global situations prove.;)what kinda kooky comment is that. Guns are weapons and used are tools just as any other tool. Don't start.

[Wisha Haddan H3]

The arizona central newspaper has an article about this that explains it alot better:
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0106border-incident0106USE.html

Guard soldiers back off from armed men out of Mexico

"They're armed for their protection. Once they are afraid for their lives, they can defend themselves.

Thanks for that article Tank ... I was sure they could return fire.

You know, I'm fairly liberal, I speak spanish and I sympathize with the desire for a better life, but illegal is still illegal. I'm a citizen but it's not like I get a free ride here. I work, I vote, I pay taxes, I'm subject to the law, and I run the risk of jury duty, the draft and all the rest. In return for these and other responsibilities, I enjoy the benefits of citizenship.

But don't sneak over the border illegally and expect immunity from taxes, accident liability and criminal prosecution, along with free medical care and schools (in spanish) and the right to commit identity theft. It's like saying you deserve a nice car, but refusing to get a license, pay the registration, make the payments or get insurance. And then after carjacking mine, you get mad when the cops pull you over. Dude, it's not your car!

Illegals don't belong here, just as I don't belong in their country. If they can get here legally, sweet. But if they cross illegally, whoever we pay to secure the borders (BP, NG or whoever) should be able to stop them and send them back. If they cross with weapons, we should shoot back. This is our house, and they don't get to move in just because they like it better here.

[wpage]

The guard is better than it was many years ago when they shot down students @ kent state U. The concept of issue guard soldiers guns without live ammo seems silly however it still happens on occasion to prevent errors. Untill the problems with frivolous lawsuits and Justice dept related issues are solved....Guns no bullets!
Stay tuned Nancy and her friends from San Fran have a "Plan"
A Sensitivty Training and relating to Terrorists and thier special needs.
B More Gays in the Guard "Its not your daddy's Armed Forces"
C How to win friends and influence people in Iraq and Iran with flowers
D We found Jimmy Hoffa and he is paying off Ossama for us, cheap!
By 2009 there will be a mass migration of Mexicans to Canada and one problem will be gone by attrition. The US will no longer be a viable tit to leach on.
Democrats score another victory:twak:

[Recmar1]

I gotta say that I agree with Dennis and Drty. I live in California where there is obviously many "illegal" aliens. There are two sides to the equation, yes our healh system is being comprimised, yes, our taxes go up to support the influx of non-nationals (not only hispanics), yes, criminal activity in some parts of the country is up. I agree that some stop gaps need to be put in place - but who of us on this forum can say their families arrived on the Mayflower? I happen to be Irish and as a child heard stories from my Grandfather (who arrived from Ireland and whose name is now at the Ellis Island Museum), about the Irish and how "lazy, stupid, dirty, alcoholic" they were. The people that were complaining the most were those without the Irish Nanny, Irish Handyman, Irish roofer, etc.
I absolutely agree that something needs to be done for our border security, for not only Mexico, but also Canada. Stories tend to take on a life of their own, i.e. border guards being assualted. Our government :giggling: needs to address this, but there is way too much money (since working illegal aliens pay Federal taxes) for them to do anything of significance.
It would be wise for the U.S. to institute what New Zealand has for non-nationals. They are allowed in the Country and if they don't have a job, I believe after three months, they are deported.
I know that the influx in this County is quite different from NZ, but if they can put a man on the moon........

[PARAGON]

I gotta say that I agree with Dennis and Drty. you agree with Drty about what :OWNED:

[DennisAJC]

I bet these NG kids are gonna throw another big story when a bunch of moms pushing strollers decide to walk a little too close.

* National Gaurd under seige by rocket mounted vehicles.*:giggling:


Sure there's a border problem. But don't get all excited by every story the media decides to spoon feed you.:OWNED:

Solve the problem by making claims of WMDs in Mexico. It work for Iraq.:jump:

[RuggedH2]

We better not start suspecting Canada of WMD's.

It might take us a whole twenty minutes to take over up there. :jump:

[Recmar1]

Easy, big guy - was referencing what I thought was sarcasm on DRTY's thread. Perhaps I was wrong and he was serious, but really can't speak for him :OWNED:

[DennisAJC]

We better not start suspecting Canada of WMD's.

It might take us a whole twenty minutes to take over up there. :jump:

That's what you guys said about the spear chucking tribesmen over in Iraq.:giggling: :jump:


America(Along with the French:shhh: ) did attempt to invade Canada twice. They we're easily defeated by a Canadian Army 1/10th their size. Canadians had an opportunity to flatten D.C. but decided not to expose the troops seeing wig wearing men. They just decided to ruin the chicks over in Chicago.:OWNED:



http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/3586/99552

The two Wars that the United States history books desperately want to forget. ... The offensive actions of the United States failed miserably in every attempt to capture Canada after declaring war twice.

[RuggedH2]

Dennis, Iraqi's imported a bunch of zealots to blown themselves up.

Canadians aren't that passionate about anything, except hockey.

You're really going back two hundred years? OK, I'm sure the modern Canadian Military is a formidable bunch of vicious bastards. They are internationally recognized as a superior fighting force. ;) I can't even say that with with a straight face. :giggling:

We never really wanted Canada, even two hundred years ago. Do you guys have lot's of oil? You never know....

Since I'm already editing, I'll quote DRTY (probably out of context) "You're just Northern Messicans". That why you're all sensitive?

[DennisAJC]

Dennis, Saudi Arabia imported a bunch of zealots to blown themselves up.

Iraqi's aren't that passionate about anything, So they'll be easy.

I'm sure the modern Iraqi Military is a formidable bunch of vicious bastards. They are internationally recognized as a superior fighting force. ;) I can't even say that with with a straight face. :giggling:

We never really wanted Iraq. They do have lot's of oil....

Where have I heard that before????:jump:

Fixed and :OWNED: :giggling:

[RuggedH2]

France>Canada :eek:

OK, Ok, even in humor that aint right.

[bparker]

It still imazed me that people still dont get the concept of what "illegal" means. If it is unlawful our lawmen should be properly and politically equiped to STOP IT.

This whole thing is gay!

Try crossing the DMZ from North Korea into South Korea.. you will get the point of what "protecting your border" means...

[DennisAJC]

It still imazed me that people still dont get the concept of what "illegal" means. If it is unlawful our lawmen should be properly and politically equiped to STOP IT.

This whole thing is gay!

Try crossing the DMZ from North Korea into South Korea.. you will get the point of what "protecting your border" means...


Any moron knows what is legal and illegal. Even unsaid. What I find funny is how drama queens get all excited when some kids cry wolf. I find this hilarious and love to poke at the opportunity.

All the "High Tech" toys the Americans sport and still only a handful of troopers watching the entire coastline of Oregon.:giggling:

Instead of snooping on your fellow American with high tech surveilence, alot of those resources could be diverted to easily to solve the border problem.


So busy sending troops and resources to supposedly protect Iraqis and other spear chucking countries (At the same time hearing, "Kill em all" sentiments.:rolleyes: ) from themselves, the government fails to protect Americans from the ones they claim to protect. Saudi Arabia looks down on you guys with a grin.
:OWNED: :OWNED: :OWNED: :OWNED: :OWNED:

[bparker]

:rolleyes:

[PARAGON]

What I find funny is how drama queens get all excited when some kids cry wolf. I find this hilarious and love to poke at the opportunity.Yeah, I liken it to those that get all depressed over the media calling a moron who killed himself and nearly his family, a hero. Remember that one? That one was just the funniest.

[RuggedH2]

Yeah those drama queens down there in the Border Patrol keep whining over nothing. That problem could be solved by Canadians sitting in chairs in no time.

Turns out all we ever had to do to solve every problem, was to consult the Canadians. Damn, all that wasted effort and life spent for nothing. They knew what to do all along.

Gotta bring them in the loop next time. Maybe we should sit down with France and Canada and solve everybody's problems, all without ever leaving our chairs. Cool.

:jump: :rolleyes: Nothing ever ventured, is nothing ever gained.

If we had it to do all over again, maybe England would have eventually let us go the way they did Canada, then we could take our dominant position in the world just like they did.

Seriously, I like Canada, some of my best friends are Canadian :) . Sorry for all the low hits, just having a little fun. ;) Standing by for the flame.

[PARAGON]

Yeah those drama queens down there in the Border Patrol keep whining over nothing. That problem could be solved by Canadians sitting in chairs in no time.

Turns out all we ever had to do to solve every problem, was to consult the Canadians. Damn, all that wasted effort and life spent for nothing. They knew what to do all along.

Gotta bring them in the loop next time. Maybe we should sit down with France and Canada and solve everybody's problems, all without ever leaving our chairs. Cool.

:jump: :rolleyes: Nothing ever ventured, is nothing ever gained.

If we had it to do all over again, maybe England would have eventually let us go the way they did Canada, then we could take our dominant position in the world just like they did.

Seriously, I like Canada, some of my best friends are Canadian :) . Sorry for all the low hits, just having a little fun. ;) Standing by for the flame.meh, Canadians are like Tornado Sirens.... they just sit there and do nothing except whine right before the **** hits the fan;)

but they've got a big mouth

[bparker]

rofl

[DennisAJC]

Seriously, I like Canada, some of my best friends are Canadian :) . Sorry for all the low hits, just having a little fun. ;) Standing by for the flame.


HAHAHA!!! This stuff has been going around since the begining of this Forum. It kills the boredom.:jump:


Nothing is really taken personally since we all have our own oppinions. Obviously, I'm pro American (Hell, I drive one of the most hated rigs here in Canada;) .), I also have alot of friends and business interests there. But we all have criticizm on how our Governments perform and should perform. We'll not most of the time see eye to eye. Hell, America is split down the middle, Bush is in office and Pelosi is running the house.:clapping:

I'm planning on rehashing and going more in depth with this stuff up at the next Moab campfire in April:p . You should go. :beerchug:

[f5fstop]

I gotta say that I agree with Dennis and Drty. I live in California where there is obviously many "illegal" aliens. There are two sides to the equation, yes our healh system is being comprimised, yes, our taxes go up to support the influx of non-nationals (not only hispanics), yes, criminal activity in some parts of the country is up. I agree that some stop gaps need to be put in place - but who of us on this forum can say their families arrived on the Mayflower? I happen to be Irish and as a child heard stories from my Grandfather (who arrived from Ireland and whose name is now at the Ellis Island Museum), about the Irish and how "lazy, stupid, dirty, alcoholic" they were. The people that were complaining the most were those without the Irish Nanny, Irish Handyman, Irish roofer, etc.
I absolutely agree that something needs to be done for our border security, for not only Mexico, but also Canada. Stories tend to take on a life of their own, i.e. border guards being assualted. Our government :giggling: needs to address this, but there is way too much money (since working illegal aliens pay Federal taxes) for them to do anything of significance.
It would be wise for the U.S. to institute what New Zealand has for non-nationals. They are allowed in the Country and if they don't have a job, I believe after three months, they are deported.
I know that the influx in this County is quite different from NZ, but if they can put a man on the moon........

I haven't seen anyone on this board being against LEGAL immigration. But there is a big difference between my Grandfathers who came over from Ireland via Ellis Island or the Detroit Ambassador Bridge, since they both did it legally. In addition, where I grew up in Detroit, it was a mixed neighborhood, full of immigrants from almost any country, and one thing I do remember is, they all made an attempt to learn English, and they followed our laws.
As for what immigration policy we should follow, why not follow the US immigration laws, and state illegals are ILLEGAL and should be deported. I believe New Zealand has a pretty secure border with their neighbors, aren't too many walking across an unsecured border. So I can't imagine why they have a big problem with wetbacks.
If we have to follow any immigration law, other than our own, let's follow Mexico's immigration policy, which means we get to beat and starve them before sending them back.:clapping: