VA Tech

[KenP]

:(

[JamesT]

What a hoffific event. :crying: :confused:

[DennisAJC]

Damn.

[XM DUDE]

This is horrific! I is scary how easy a motivated person can do this, they say he had to have a Gloc and a few clips to do this.

[NewHummerGuy]

Said he had a 9mm and .22 cal pistol. And must have had a bunch of clips.

31 dead now. This is truely insane.:( :( :(

[usetosellhummer]

so sad

[Hummer Aficionado_VT]

Weak stuff. Its like Columbine X3.:(

[BlueTJCO]

WTF is wrong with people these days.................Damn.

[wpage]

All extremists must die!

[Hmmm2]

Now they are saying AT LEAST 32 dead now. This is insane. My friend's brother is a professor in the Engineering Dept there.. and his nephew is an engineering student. Fortunately he was delayed at home grading papers before heading to his office. The nephew was safe in his dorm. What's going on?!?!?!

[BlueHUMMERH2]

Scary stuff. I'm on a campus similar in student body size, physical scale, and accessibility. There are ZERO security protocols on any campus, and it actually takes more identification to get into the gym to use the pool than anything else. I'm surprised events like this, or thefts of sensitive materials haven't been more common. I'm just glad I spend very little time actually on campus, and the majority of it is late at night, or in a computer lab with a locking door.

[BlueTJCO]

Scary stuff. I'm on a campus similar in student body size, physical scale, and accessibility. There are ZERO security protocols on any campus, and it actually takes more identification to get into the gym to use the pool than anything else. I'm surprised events like this, or thefts of sensitive materials haven't been more common. I'm just glad I spend very little time actually on campus, and the majority of it is late at night, or in a computer lab with a locking door.

except unfortunately the same thing could happen shopping for groceries.......These types of things make me really feel fortunate and in turn, make me want to run out and give everyone I love a huge hugg and make sure they know how important they are to me.......

[DennisAJC]

These types of things make me really feel fortunate and in turn, make me want to run out and give everyone I love a huge hugg and make sure they know how important they are to me.......


As sappy as it may sound, I agree with you. Not in a DRTYFN kind of way, but ya, it does make me feel like hugging family and friends and let them know before it's too late.

[mdoyle]

Another tragic aspect is that the gunman was able to continue his rampage 2 hours later across campus, right about the time the email warning finally went out.

Absolutely heartwrenching.

[h2co-pilot]

It's awful and senseless, that's about all I have to say.:(

[KenP]

Another tragic aspect is that the gunman was able to continue his rampage 2 hours later across campus, right about the time the email warning finally went out.

Absolutely heartwrenching.The two may have been unrelated. We'll see.

Damn, Geraldo is there now.

[bparker]

dont get me started...

WTF is wrong with people these days.................Damn.

[westhillsat]

The two may have been unrelated. We'll see.

Damn, Geraldo is there now.


Very sad :(


I was watching some of the live feeds on the sat dish and saw Geraldo wondering around. They mentioned they had 8 anchors there from Fox.

[Alan06SUT]

My thoughts are with the friends and family of the victims. What a cowardly act. It makes me want to carry a weapon at all times. Its getting to the point where if many people out there were armed, people like this guy would think twice about opening fire. Its getting third world.

[K9sH3]

except unfortunately the same thing could happen shopping for groceries.......These types of things make me really feel fortunate and in turn, make me want to run out and give everyone I love a huge hugg and make sure they know how important they are to me.......

I couldn't agree more.... :iagree:

[K9sH3]

As sappy as it may sound, I agree with you. Not in a DRTYFN kind of way, but ya, it does make me feel like hugging family and friends and let them know before it's too late.


Again, words I am sure taken out of alot of our mouths..

I pray that none of us have kids there or friends. And that we never are subject to this type of Horror.

God Bless those that have been taken away way to soon and for all of thier families and friends that are feeling the pain of the loss.

[marin8703]

Trajic stuff. I dont even know what to say. I cant even imagine what the people involved are going through rite now.:( cant really understand why things like this have to happen. like someone already said, just makes you appreciate what you have even more, cauze it can all be gone tomorow.

[XM DUDE]

They are saying this all started over an ex girlfriend, this **** is beyond ridiculous! All of those lives wasted over stupid ****, I just don't get it.

[frenzy1]

Terrible !!
We were discussing this tragedy yesterday evening after watchin' the News. Attacks/accidents/tragedies like that just never ever happened in Belgium.

Frenzy

[ssgharkness020147]

One of my old best friends goes to V Tech. It took FOREVER to be able to get through to his phone, the cellular networks were so busy out there. Luckily he is ok, but he was about two buildings away from one of the shootings. Unfortunatly, one of his friends took a hit to the arm, but he'll be fine. The thing that really made the impact of the severity set in was hearing my buddies voice, I've never heard him so shaken up before. To top it off the guy is a tough ****, he was an Army Ranger and on his way to SF before a medical discharge put him out of the service. For me hearing his distress and knowing his backround and how tough he is made it really disturbing for me.

[KenP]

Cho Seung-Hui, the lone gunman.

This'll be speculated over and over, but I just don't know how he could get off so many rounds without anyone stepping up and taking him down. Really, I just don't get it.

BTW, watch out for the copycats.

[BlueTJCO]

Cho Seung-Hui, the lone gunman.

This'll be speculated over and over, but I just don't know how he could get off so many rounds without anyone stepping up and taking him down. Really, I just don't get it.

BTW, watch out for the copycats.

30 round glock mags........chained doors........unarmed students......

[MarineHawk]

My thoughts are with the friends and family of the victims. What a cowardly act. It makes me want to carry a weapon at all times. Its getting to the point where if many people out there were armed, people like this guy would think twice about opening fire. Its getting third world.

Yes, and even if he didn't think twice, if one or more of the faculty or students in the first classroom had been carrying, about 30 fewer people could have died.

Take the poll!!!: http://abcnews.go.com/US/BeSeenBeHeard/popup?id=3046132

[BlueHUMMERH2]

Apparently he's from South Korea, here on a Green Card... :mad:

[MarineHawk]

Apparently he's from South Korea, here on a Green Card... :mad:

He looks familiar:

[BlueTJCO]

Apparently he's from South Korea, here on a Green Card... :mad:




soooooo what? what difference does that make?

A green card makes him legal correct?

[h2co-pilot]

Yeah, he was legal, I don't think that has anything to do with it. A psycho is a psycho.

He looks familiar:

Yeah, not very malicious or eyebrow raising. Kinda looks like a chick I used to work with.

[Andy C]

Apparently he's from South Korea, here on a Green Card... :mad:

And that is supposed to mean what exactly??????????

[Andy C]

Apparently he's from South Korea, here on a Green Card... :mad:

In fact maybe you should check out some of the profiles of these homegrown arsholes before you even think of bringing country of origin into this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:American_mass_murderers

[evldave]

Apparently he's from South Korea, here on a Green Card... :mad:

Yeah, since like 1992. Psycho's come from everywhere I don't think his race has anything to do with it :(

[Steve - SanJose]

Tragic day.

[Hmmm2]

Students on campus said he was a real loaner. When they would pass him on the way to classes, a few would say 'hello', but he would stay stoned-faced and just walk past them. The students said that's why no one could get to know him. Having been a psychology and education major in college .. it bothers me so much that he went without help his whole life with his psychological problems, and then to have him take all of the innocent lives along with his own, in the end. So tragic.

[NewHummerGuy]

Not sure but I believe he lives (lived) about 5 mins from me. I am going to stroll by his house later. Figured I will know if its the right house or not by the signs of media. Just curious what the home of a mass murderer looks like.

Neighbors have been quoted as saying the family was very quiet and kept to themselves.

[KenP]

Just curious what the home of a mass murderer looks like.The sad thing is, it looks just like anybody else's.

[K9sH3]

BTW, watch out for the copycats.


Thats the real issue, some other ****turd will do this within 6 months, if the media doesn't get off it already.

[Hmmm2]

The sad thing is, it looks just like anybody else's.
They have been showing the home on FoxNews. It's a neatly kept, trim townhome, seemingly in a well-kept neighborhood. His parents live there .. while he was at VT he was in a dorm. His sister graduated from Princeton. Knowing many Asian people here, I have no doubt that his parents were very hard working, honorable people. They run a drycleaning business in their town. Academics play a big part in Asian family life, having their children strive in education. (At least, that is what I witness in my area). Perhaps it was more than this guy could take .. or, was pushed so hard in academics that his behavior went unnoticed. The Chicago Tribune has stated that in the killer's note, he expressed hatred towards the 'rich kids'. He obviously had many issues and a lot of hatred. So many ruined lives now. :crying:

[K9sH3]

30 round glock mags........chained doors........unarmed students......

I have never understood the locked chained doors. Doors can be locked so that you can't get in and have a push bar to get out.
WTF. Even the highschools have locked doors.

[Hmmm2]

I have never understood the locked chained doors. Doors can be locked so that you can't get in and have a push bar to get out.
WTF. Even the highschools have locked doors.

The doors were chained so the students couldn't get out. The push bars from the 'inside' would obviously allow them to push and run out. That's how I understood the report.

[Andy C]

Thats the real issue, some other ****turd will do this within 6 months, if the media doesn't get off it already.

I agree with you on this - I am totally for informative news and in no way condone any sort of censorship - but I do believe that a tragic event such as this should be handled with a lot more dignity and decorum. Why we allow an event like this to be turned into a three ring circus ratings war I will never fully understand.

I saw a reporter this morning actually talking about this being the largest attended media event that he had ever seen - even making the cameraman pan around to show all the dozens of news trucks that were in attendance - I turned off the television in disgust just as he was starting to compare it with Superbowl coverage.

As I said - no censorship - but we need something in place to limit intrusive coverage - the authorities should limit the amount of unbiased journalists into a scene - and not have every quaffed dickhead with a mic and a cameraman run amok through a scene of tragedy looking for that ellusive "exclusive" interview.

There are dozens of people deeply affected by this and I really do not think that a massed pack of sensational seeking press is doing anything to help those people.

[Hmmm2]

I agree with you on this - I am totally for informative news and in no way condone any sort of censorship - but I do believe that a tragic event such as this should be handled with a lot more dignity and decorum. Why we allow an event like this to be turned into a three ring circus ratings war I will never fully understand.

I saw a reporter this morning actually talking about this being the largest attended media event that he had ever seen - even making the cameraman pan around to show all the dozens of news trucks that were in attendance - I turned off the television in disgust just as he was starting to compare it with Superbowl coverage.

As I said - no censorship - but we need something in place to limit intrusive coverage - the authorities should limit the amount of unbiased journalists into a scene - and not have every quaffed dickhead with a mic and a cameraman run amok through a scene of tragedy looking for that ellusive "exclusive" interview.

There are dozens of people deeply affected by this and I really do not think that a massed pack of sensational seeking press is doing anything to help those people.

:iagree:

[MarineHawk]

They have been showing the home on FoxNews. It's a neatly kept, trim townhome, seemingly in a well-kept neighborhood. His parents live there .. while he was at VT he was in a dorm. His sister graduated from Princeton. Knowing many Asian people here, I have no doubt that his parents were very hard working, honorable people. They run a drycleaning business in their town. Academics play a big part in Asian family life, having their children strive in education. (At least, that is what I witness in my area). Perhaps it was more than this guy could take .. or, was pushed so hard in academics that his behavior went unnoticed. The Chicago Tribune has stated that in the killer's note, he expressed hatred towards the 'rich kids'. He obviously had many issues and a lot of hatred. So many ruined lives now. :crying:

Reminds me of the Far Side comic where the guy is lying on the couch in the psychiatrist's office and the psychiatrist writes on his notepad simply: "Just plain nuts."

There's no need to look further. He committed mass murder for no reason because he was CRAZY.

[h2co-pilot]

Some stuff:

Links to students Myspace pages/ Blogs etc (http://clicked.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/04/17/154822.aspx)

Shooters Plays he wrote-

Mr. McBeef (http://news.aol.com/virginia-tech-shootings/cho-seung-hui/_a/richard-mcbeef-cover-page/20070417134109990001) wtf

Mr. Brownstone (http://news.aol.com/virginia-tech-shootings/cho-seung-hui/_a/mr-brownstone-title-page/20070417141309990001)

From the student that published the plays online-



What happened yesterday:

When I first heard about the multiple shootings at Virginia Tech yesterday, my first thought was about my friends, and my second thought was "I bet it was Seung Cho."

Cho was in my playwriting class last fall, and nobody seemed to think much of him at first. He would sit by himself whenever possible, and didn't like talking to anyone. I don't think I've ever actually heard his voice before. He was just so quiet and kept to himself. Looking back, he fit the exact stereotype of what one would typically think of as a "school shooter" ? a loner, obsessed with violence, and serious personal problems. Some of us in class tried to talk to him to be nice and get him out of his shell, but he refused talking to anyone. It was like he didn't want to be friends with anybody. One friend of mine tried to offer him some Halloween candy that she still had, but he slowly shook his head, refusing it. He just came to class every day and submitted his work on time, as I understand it.

A major part of the playwriting class was peer reviews. We would write one-act plays and submit them to an online repository called Blackboard for everyone in the class to read and comment about in class the next day. Typically, the students give their opinions about the plays and suggest ways to make it better, the professor gives his insights, then asks the author to comment about the play in class.

When we read Cho's plays, it was like something out of a nightmare. The plays had really twisted, macabre violence that used weapons I wouldn't have even thought of. Before Cho got to class that day, we students were talking to each other with serious worry about whether he could be a school shooter. I was even thinking of scenarios of what I would do in case he did come in with a gun, I was that freaked out about him. When the students gave reviews of his play in class, we were very careful with our words in case he decided to snap. Even the professor didn't pressure him to give closing comments.

After hearing about the mass shootings, I sent one of my friends a Facebook message asking him if he knew anything about Seung Cho and if he could have been involved. He replied: "dude that's EXACTLY what I was thinking! No, I haven't heard anything, but seriously, that was the first thing I thought when I heard he was Asian."

While I "knew" Cho, I always wished there was something I could do for him, but I couldn't think of anything. As far as notifying authorities, there isn't (to my knowledge) any system set up that lets people say "Hey! This guy has some issues! Maybe you should look into this guy!" If there were, I definitely would have tried to get the kid some help. I think that could have had a good chance of averting yesterday's tragedy more than anything.

While I was hesitant at first to release these plays (because I didn't know if there are laws against it), I had to put myself in the shoes of the average person researching this situation. I'd want to know everything I could about the killer to figure out what could drive a person to do something like this and hopefully prevent it in the future. Also, I hope this might help people start caring about others more no matter how weird they might seem, because if this was some kind of cry for attention, then he should have gotten it a long time ago.

As far as the victims go, as I was heading to bed last night, I heard that my good friend Stack (Ryan Clark) was one of the first confirmed dead. I didn't want to believe that I'd never get to talk to him again, and all I could think about was how much I could tell him how much his friendship meant to me. During my junior year, Ryan, another friend and I used to get breakfast on Tuesdays and Thursdays at Shultz Dining Hall, one of the cafeterias on campus, and it was always the highlight of my day. He could talk forever it seemed and always made us laugh. He was a good friend, not just to me, but to a lot of people, and I'll miss him a lot.

[K9sH3]

I watched as VATech held their candle light cermony tonight, Man I wish I wouldn't watch the news.. I work with kids everyday and I just think of what it must be like to be that parent that has to get the call...That is has to be numbing to the soul.
Like most teachers ( which I am not a school teacher) I try to teach the kids right from wrong and how to be a good person.. As we watched on Monday at the Sk8 park, the kids were looking at me for some answers. I saw in thier eyes the true meaning of being kids. And I couldn't explain such an horrific act by another human. I am sure Thursday when I get back I will be able to talk some more with them.

[Scouts Out]

I have just stopped watching the news, it is so depressing. I have experienced the suicide bombers, the terrorist, being shot at, rocketed, mortored, lost friends over seas. This being close to home, close to the age of my kids... that sad.

[Huck BB62]

Hey, I got it! They should outlaw chains!

On a serious note, people really need to start being aware of their surroundings. If that guy was on the forum here, he'd been ratted out fifteen ways to hell and back (cause nobody'd be worried about huwtin' his wittle feewin's) or looking racists.

I'd also like for some common sense gun store owners to ask questions and quit worrying about making a buck so badly. I'm dead serious, I was standing in the gun store checkin' out a new Kimber and the lunkhead salesman was pumpin' info to this gang banger nutjob about why this gun is better than this one etc. When the banger left, I gave the counter guy an earful and asked him if he'd SERIOUSLY SELL A GUN TO THAT guy!

Same thing about this slaughterhouse turd. No idle chit chat about the gun's useage? No questions about training etc.? There's a sign on the wall "We reserve the right to sell a gun to anyone and not to just anyone!" I guarantee you that five minutes of conversation with someone with this mentality would more than trigger an alarm.

First question: Why would anyone in their right mind sell a gun to someone that lives on campus? Ding frickin' ding ding ding.

I'm not a gun control guy. I shoot almost every day. What I'm in favor of is a little common sense.

Oh, by the way, when a terrorist or bad guy starts lining you up for slaughter, fight back. Get together and attack. He's not trained, somebody's getting through. It's a lot better than being popped like a pig in a sausage factory.

The massive news coverage on this is surely training the next psycho to do a better job. The good news is that he DID use a gun. Had he been truly wicked, he'd done a bomb during those huge rallies they have. I know that sounds morbid but look around us. Look at Iraq. I'm glad the guy was a dumbass and used a gun instead of a bomb, or else he'd have killed hundreds.

[deserth3]

Hey, I got it! They should outlaw chains!

On a serious note, people really need to start being aware of their surroundings. If that guy was on the forum here, he'd been ratted out fifteen ways to hell and back (cause nobody'd be worried about huwtin' his wittle feewin's) or looking racists.

I'd also like for some common sense gun store owners to ask questions and quit worrying about making a buck so badly. I'm dead serious, I was standing in the gun store checkin' out a new Kimber and the lunkhead salesman was pumpin' info to this gang banger nutjob about why this gun is better than this one etc. When the banger left, I gave the counter guy an earful and asked him if he'd SERIOUSLY SELL A GUN TO THAT guy!

Same thing about this slaughterhouse turd. No idle chit chat about the gun's useage? No questions about training etc.? There's a sign on the wall "We reserve the right to sell a gun to anyone and not to just anyone!" I guarantee you that five minutes of conversation with someone with this mentality would more than trigger an alarm.

First question: Why would anyone in their right mind sell a gun to someone that lives on campus? Ding frickin' ding ding ding.

I'm not a gun control guy. I shoot almost every day. What I'm in favor of is a little common sense.

Oh, by the way, when a terrorist or bad guy starts lining you up for slaughter, fight back. Get together and attack. He's not trained, somebody's getting through. It's a lot better than being popped like a pig in a sausage factory.

The massive news coverage on this is surely training the next psycho to do a better job. The good news is that he DID use a gun. Had he been truly wicked, he'd done a bomb during those huge rallies they have. I know that sounds morbid but look around us. Look at Iraq. I'm glad the guy was a dumbass and used a gun instead of a bomb, or else he'd have killed hundreds.

I agree. If half the people who got killed started throughing books, pens, cell phones, backpacks, chairs or even desk at this kid a lot more of them wouuld have lived. It's difficult to aim a gun if all sort of stuff is flying at you.
We are teaching our kids the wrong thing in school. Instead of sitting there and being passive they should teach them how to defened themselves and ask questions.

[K9sH3]

I agree. If half the people who got killed started throughing books, pens, cell phones, backpacks, chairs or even desk at this kid a lot more of them wouuld have lived. It's difficult to aim a gun if all sort of stuff is flying at you.
We are teaching our kids the wrong thing in school. Instead of sitting there and being passive they should teach them how to defened themselves and ask questions.

:iagree:

:beerchug:

[KenP]

First question: Why would anyone in their right mind sell a gun to someone that lives on campus? Ding frickin' ding ding ding.His ID had his parent's address.

Some in the news are making it sound as if you can just walk in and get a gun in Virginia without any checks done. That's not true. You do have a background check done whether the gun is purchased at a store or a gun show.

There's no need for armchair quaterbacking here.

No one could expect ANY gun store owner to research the killer's school writings or history. That's just silly.

The murderer wasn't ever convicted of anything. Nothing would show up on his background check.

[MarineHawk]

No one could expect ANY gun store owner to research the killer's school writings or history. That's just silly.

The murderer wasn't ever convicted of anything. Nothing would show up on his background check.

But he was Asian, just like Ghengis Khan. I'm just saying.

[KenP]

But he was Asian, just like Ghengis Khan. I'm just saying.38527


Just a joke. Dennis knows we love him.:)

[BlueTJCO]

I agree. If half the people who got killed started throughing books, pens, cell phones, backpacks, chairs or even desk at this kid a lot more of them wouuld have lived. It's difficult to aim a gun if all sort of stuff is flying at you.
We are teaching our kids the wrong thing in school. Instead of sitting there and being passive they should teach them how to defened themselves and ask questions.

I thought the same thing..........

except that is real easy to say sitting here entering IP Addresses into computers here in my office. I bet if someone started popping off with two handguns in the office next to me it would be a whole different story...........but I dont know.

I'd love to say I'd be that one "lucky" guy that stopped the shooter.....but I'm guessing under the circumstances that would be much easier said then done.........

[MarineHawk]

I'd love to say I'd be that one "lucky" guy that stopped the shooter.....but I'm guessing under the circumstances that would be much easier said then done.........

I'd like to say the same thing. Of course, if I saved the 30 people from dying, no one would ever know that. Instead, you'd see the Reuters and ABC story about how some gun-crazed guy who violated a Gun Free School Zone by carrying a concealed handgun into a classroom violently shot another crazy gun nut and then went to jail.

[MarineHawk]

A little dated, but still valid:


Hardly mentioned in the massive news coverage of the school-related shootings during the past year is how they ended. Two of the four shootings were stopped by a citizen displaying a gun. In the October 1997 shooting spree at a high school in Pearl, Miss., which left two students dead, an assistant principal retrieved a gun from his car and physically immobilized the shooter while waiting for the police.

More recently, the school-related shooting in Edinboro, Pa., which left one teacher dead, was stopped only after a bystander pointed a shotgun at the shooter when he started to reload his gun. The police did not arrive for another 10 minutes.
Who knows how many lives were saved by these prompt responses?
Anecdotal stories are not sufficient to resolve this debate. Together with my colleague William Landes, I have compiled data on all the multiple-victim public shootings occurring in the U.S. from 1977 to 1995. Included were incidents where at least two people were killed or injured in a public place; to focus on the type of shooting seen in the Ferguson rampage, we excluded gang wars or shootings that were the byproduct of another crime, such as robbery. The U.S. averaged 21 such shootings annually, with an average of 1.8 people killed and 2.7 wounded in each one.
We examined a range of different gun laws, such as waiting periods as well as methods of deterrence, such as the death penalty. However, only one policy was found to reduce deaths and injuries from these shootings: allowing law-abiding citizens to carry concealed handguns. The effect of "shall-issue" concealed handgun laws, which give adults the right to carry concealed handguns if they do not have a criminal record or a history of significant mental illness, was dramatic. Thirty-one states now have such laws. When states passed them during the 19 years we studied, the number of multiple-victim public shootings declined by 84%. Deaths from these shootings plummeted on average by 90%, injuries by 82%. Higher arrest rates and increased use of the death penalty slightly reduced the incidence of these events, but we could not conclusively determine such an effect.

http://www.junkscience.com/news2/lott2.html


Another one:



A terrorist opens fire at a crowded bus stop; a passing Israeli motorist draws his 9mm pistol and cuts him down. A late-arriving security man with an M-16 hoses the twitching terrorist just to make sure.

Another terrorist attempts to trigger an explosive device in a public place. An Israeli housewife draws her pistol and shoots him dead before he can detonate the bomb. The would-be martyr dies alone.
A third terrorist opens fire with an automatic weapon in an Israeli school. What could have been a mass murder on the scale of Columbine or greater is limited to a very short casualty list when Israeli parents and grandparents, who have provided volunteer armed security after receiving state training, open fire and kill him with their concealed pistols.

Note that in each of these episodes, it was an armed citizen who stopped the terror. Not a soldier. Not a security guard. Not a police officer. Just as wolves do not try to seize a lamb under the nose of the sheepdog, terrorists do not strike where armed protectors are known to be present. They scout the turf and select their victims more carefully than that.

http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob81.html

[Huck BB62]

His ID had his parent's address.

Some in the news are making it sound as if you can just walk in and get a gun in Virginia without any checks done. That's not true. You do have a background check done whether the gun is purchased at a store or a gun show.

There's no need for armchair quaterbacking here.

No one could expect ANY gun store owner to research the killer's school writings or history. That's just silly.

The murderer wasn't ever convicted of anything. Nothing would show up on his background check.

Sounds like a nice cop-out. All I'm saying is there's a total lack of common sense. There's been a lot of (well, he didn't have a record so...) At THAT PARTICULAR STORE there's been five murders committed with weapons sold from there.

If we intend to maintain our right to bear arms, and that's my point here, we need and must do more than say things like "He didn't have a record". When a quiet sullen guy shows up with no buddies to buy a gun and you just sell it to him, dontcha think that a little talking may be in order? We've got to get smart, or we're going to get legislated out of existance.

It's more than apparent that EVERY SINGLE PERSON that came into contact with this nut had alarms going off in every brain cell that he wasn't right in the head.

About the Monday morning quarter backing remark: Yeah, I get to do that, and you should too because this is most friggin' certainly going to affect you and I. Next time you're at the gun counter and you see a questionable person buying a gun, it's certainly within your rights to talk to him. Why? Because you, as a salesmen of weapons, will be under the microscope and may lose your business and go to jail.

Quick questions like "What kind of shooting do you like to do?" "Where do you practice?" "This hollow point ammo is kind of expensive for plinkin' ain't it?" "Where do you store your guns? Would you like to see our safes?"

I guarantee you that he'd stumble on one or more of those questions enough to cause concern.

[MarineHawk]

First question: Why would anyone in their right mind sell a gun to someone that lives on campus? Ding frickin' ding ding ding.


Second question: Why the fcuk not?

When I was in college in the 1980s living on campus, I bought a shotgun, which is about as deadly as you can get. I kept it at my brother's house. I used it to shoot doves, quail, and clay pidgeons.

It was stupid for them not to let me keep it in my dorm room. In some countries, like Switzerland, college-aged male ADULTS are in the militia and required to have their issued semi-auto rifle in their dwellings whether on campus or not. I bet you they don't have a lot of mass shootings on campus in Switzerland (which has the lowest violent crime rate in the Western world).

[Huck BB62]

Sceond question: Why the fcuk not?

When I was in college in the 1980s living on campus, I bought a shotgun, which is about as deadly as you can get. I kept it at my brother's house. I used it to shoot doves, quail, and clay pidgeons.

It was stupid for them not to let me keep it in my dorm room. In some countries, like Switzerland, college-aged male ADULTS are in the militia and required to have their issued semi-auto rifle in their dwellings whether on campus or not. I bet you they don't have a lot of mass shootings on campus in Switzerland (which has the lowest violent crime rate in the Western world).

Well, times have changed. I guess here, where a UL listed gunsafe is required, maybe.

My second response to that Marinehawk (and I completely understand your consternation) is that this batch of kids are put together the same way as in years past. Yeah, we partied, we had fun, but we also had a very deep respect for the right and wrong. Have you looked at collegehumor.com, youtube and myspace? Yeah, I WOULD WANT a gun being around these kids, but they have a real disconnect from the real world if you ask me. (you college agers go ahead and unload, I stand firm) Nobody's saying they're all whacked out, I'm saying the percentages are way different, it's a far cry from "Leave it to Beaver" days.

For instance, a story recently aired where the HR people were searching myspace about their applicants. This guy (hmm, an oriental guy) was all cheesed because he never got interviews. On myspace he had all his partying stuff, and bragging about cheating in college on there. It was his opinion that this info shouldn't be used against him if he wanted to work for you!!??!!?? Another was this chick that was a real party animal, her blog read worse than a copy of the Happy Hooker. It was also her opinion that one thing had nothing to do with another. What do you guys think?

Again, if we don't get some common sense going here, we're going to lose it all.

[MarineHawk]

I guess we just disagree Huck. There were crazy-looking people with mohawks walking around the KU campus when I was there talking to themselves. I don't think that that should have been a reason to tell me that I could not own a shotgun. I will never move to California because of all the crazy laws and regs there.

Generally, when you have a country like ours where there are almost as many firearms as people, regardless of whether it would be good or not, you're never going to be able to make guns unavalable to the whackos. Lott's studies and common sense tell me that the more good, responsible people responsibly keeping loaded firearms around, the more outgunned the bad guys are.

People who don't have guns in D.C. (almost 100% of the population) live in fear because the criminals there commit crimes with impunity unless they run into a cop. People who don't have guns in places where guns are legal are safer (the statistics really do prove it) because the criminals don't know they don't have guns. In D.C., the criminals are pretty sure the single woman in the condo is unnarmed and fair game.

[MarineHawk]

This is interesting:

BLACKSBURG, Va. — A Virginia district court found that Virginia Tech killer Cho Seung-Hui (http://javascript<b></b>:siteSearch('Cho Seung-Hui');) was "mentally ill" and was an "imminent danger to others," according to a 2005 temporary detention order.
Cho "is mentally ill and in need of hospitalization, and presents an imminent danger to self or others as mental illness, or is seriously mentally ill as to be substantially unable to care for self, and is incapable of volunteering or unwilling to volunteer for treatment," reads the order, obtained by FOX News.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,266683,00.html

There's another one coming:
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8OJ70L01&show_article=1
That guy is a ticking time bomb too, but I do understand his fluorescent light bulb anger thing.

[NewHummerGuy]

This is interesting:

BLACKSBURG, Va. ? A Virginia district court found that Virginia Tech killer Cho Seung-Hui (http://javascript<b></b>:siteSearch('Cho Seung-Hui');) was "mentally ill" and was an "imminent danger to others," according to a 2005 temporary detention order.
Cho "is mentally ill and in need of hospitalization, and presents an imminent danger to self or others as mental illness, or is seriously mentally ill as to be substantially unable to care for self, and is incapable of volunteering or unwilling to volunteer for treatment," reads the order, obtained by FOX News.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,266683,00.html

There's another one coming:
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8OJ70L01&show_article=1
That guy is a ticking time bomb too, but I do understand his fluorescent light bulb anger thing.


Yeah, but the only problem with the Colorado kid (judging from his dads remarks) is that they will sue the college and probably win for violating his amendments:yawn: :lame: . Then after that his son will murder several people.:rant: :rant: :rant:

[GLBLWARMR]

The way I see it there is not enough people armed with concealed weapons permits. There should be more out there. If there was the fear in people's minds that I do not know who has a gun I think there would be less of these incidents. Granted, I am not saying these incidents would not happen but I would guarantee you that if there were more people carrying guns those 32 innocent people would not have died. Maybe one or two would have got shot before someone put a bullet in the fvcker that was shooting.

You cannot blame the people that legally sold a gun to someone. If they followed the established steps for their state and the guy checked out then why not sell him the gun. There is no way to control this because if you cannot get one at a licensed dealer then you just go and see the local alley vendor and get one. Regardless what steps they try to enforce on gun control, if people want one they will find a way to get one.

All I know is there were a lot of races going fvck I hope this isn't us and when he came up south korean there were a lot of sighs of relief. South Koreans "tag your it." I am not trying to make a joke about what happened but I was sitting there going fvck I hope this wasn't a Marine that got out of the Corps after a couple tours in Iraq and had PTSD. The effects that would have had on everything going on would have thrown more **** into the fire and we do not need it right now.

I feel for the families that lost someone it's to bad but arm more people and I would guarantee 32 people would not have died.

[KenP]

He was a whack job, that's all there is to it.
Pics he sent:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18169776/

The victims:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18143312/

[H2 OHHH!]

Well it seems the media is going to glorify this POS coward. So don't be surprised if it happens again within the next 2 months

[h2co-pilot]

I know! They are giving him what he wanted. Why don't they just bring the cameras on in to the crime scene? The media just plays this crap over and over. I get this in my face this morning.**

It's horrific in conjunction with what he did. Worse than any R/Horror movie I can imagine. I am traumatized by it and I'm only affected as a worried parent and the feeling of a vunerable citizen. I can't imagine what those involved with it feel like being so exposed to this so tardly accented psychofreak.

We don't hide this stuff from our children and we have forgotten decency. And this loss of decency and it's sordid exposure is what I believe to be the whole issue.

In my opinion, nothing could have been done and no one is at fault. Everyone did everything right, from the teachers, immigration, down to the gun salesman....

... with the exception of the media. The assumption that the general public is mature, strong and rational enough to endure such visionary is wrong and as long as it happens- nothing, strongly including "monkey see-monkey do" behavior, can be "prevented".

**(I attached 2 so you didn't have to look at it if you didn't want to)

[MarineHawk]

Well, times have changed. I guess here, where a UL listed gunsafe is required, maybe.

My second response to that Marinehawk (and I completely understand your consternation) is that this batch of kids are put together the same way as in years past. Yeah, we partied, we had fun, but we also had a very deep respect for the right and wrong. Have you looked at collegehumor.com, youtube and myspace? Yeah, I WOULD WANT a gun being around these kids, but they have a real disconnect from the real world if you ask me. (you college agers go ahead and unload, I stand firm) Nobody's saying they're all whacked out, I'm saying the percentages are way different, it's a far cry from "Leave it to Beaver" days.

For instance, a story recently aired where the HR people were searching myspace about their applicants. This guy (hmm, an oriental guy) was all cheesed because he never got interviews. On myspace he had all his partying stuff, and bragging about cheating in college on there. It was his opinion that this info shouldn't be used against him if he wanted to work for you!!??!!?? Another was this chick that was a real party animal, her blog read worse than a copy of the Happy Hooker. It was also her opinion that one thing had nothing to do with another. What do you guys think?

Again, if we don't get some common sense going here, we're going to lose it all.

Ann Coulter responded better than me:



Let's make America a ?sad-free zone?! By Ann Coulter

From the attacks of 9/11 to Monday's school shooting, after every mass murder there is an overwhelming urge to "do something" to prevent a similar attack.


But since Adam ate the apple and let evil into the world, deranged individuals have existed.

Most of the time they can't be locked up until it's too late. It's not against the law to be crazy ? in some jurisdictions it actually makes you more viable as a candidate for public office.

It's certainly not against the law to be an unsociable loner. If it were, Ralph Nader would be behind bars right now, where he belongs. Mass murder is often the first serious crime unbalanced individuals are caught committing ? as appears to be in the case of the Virginia Tech shooter.

The best we can do is enact policies that will reduce the death toll when these acts of carnage occur, as they will in a free and open society of 300 million people, most of whom have cable TV.

Only one policy has ever been shown to deter mass murder: concealed-carry laws. In a comprehensive study of all public, multiple-shooting incidents in America between 1977 and 1999, the inestimable economists John Lott and Bill Landes found that concealed-carry laws were the only laws that had any beneficial effect.

And the effect was not insignificant. States that allowed citizens to carry concealed handguns reduced multiple-shooting attacks by 60 percent and reduced the death and injury from these attacks by nearly 80 percent.

Apparently, even crazy people prefer targets that can't shoot back. The reason schools are consistently popular targets for mass murderers is precisely because of all the idiotic "Gun-Free School Zone" laws.

From the people who brought you "zero tolerance," I present the Gun-Free Zone! Yippee! Problem solved! Bam! Bam! Everybody down! Hey, how did that deranged loner get a gun into this Gun-Free Zone?

It isn't the angst of adolescence. Plenty of school shootings have been committed by adults with absolutely no reason to be at the school, such as Laurie Dann, who shot up the Hubbard Woods Elementary School in Winnetka, Ill., in 1988; Patrick Purdy, who opened fire on children at Cleveland Elementary School in Stockton, Calif., in 1989; and Charles Carl Roberts, who murdered five schoolgirls at an Amish school in Lancaster County, Pa., last year.

Oh by the way, the other major "Gun-Free Zone" in America is the post office.

But instantly, on the day of the shooting at Virginia Tech, the media were already promoting gun control and pre-emptively denouncing right-wingers who point out that gun control enables murderers rather than stopping them. Liberals get to lobby for gun control, but we're disallowed from arguing back. That's how good their arguments are. They're that good.

Needless to say, Virginia Tech is a Gun-Free School Zone ? at least until last Monday. The gunman must not have known. Imagine his embarrassment! Perhaps there should be signs.

Virginia Tech even prohibits students with concealed-carry permits from carrying their guns on campus. Last year, the school disciplined a student for carrying a gun on campus, despite his lawful concealed-carry permit. If only someone like that had been in Norris Hall on Monday, this massacre could have been ended a lot sooner.

But last January, the Virginia General Assembly shot down a bill that would have prevented universities like Virginia Tech from giving sanctuary to mass murderers on college campuses in Virginia by disarming students with concealed-carry permits valid in the rest of the state.

Virginia Tech spokesman Larry Hincker praised the legislature for allowing the school to disarm lawful gun owners on the faculty and student body, thereby surrendering every college campus in the state to deranged mass murderers, saying: "I'm sure the university community is appreciative of the General Assembly's actions because this will help parents, students, faculty and visitors feel safe on our campus."

Others disagreed. Writing last year about another dangerous killer who had been loose on the Virginia Tech campus, graduate student Jonathan McGlumphy wrote: "Is it not obvious that all students, faculty and staff would have been safer if (concealed handgun permit) holders were not banned from carrying their weapons on campus?"
If it wasn't obvious then, it is now.
http://jewishworldreview.com/cols/coulter041907.php3

[RubHer Yellow Ducky]

I'm sorry the inncent are dead.

Lets move on......

[MarineHawk]

I'm sorry the inncent are dead.

Lets move on......

So am I. I didn't realize that no more discussion was allowed by anyone on how to deter this type of event.

If you don't want to read, don't click.

[RubHer Yellow Ducky]

So am I. I didn't realize that no more discussion was allowed by anyone on how to deter this type of event.

If you don't want to read, don't click.

SORRY, wasn't trying to come on like a censor...

Network TV is just showing too much of it.
your right, I won't click this thread anymore

[MarineHawk]

SORRY, wasn't trying to come on like a censor...

Network TV is just showing too much of it.
your right, I won't click this thread anymore

I was probably beating a dead horse. I haven't seen much of the TV coverage. About all I watch anymore are things like Rome, Deadwood, Sopranos, Military Channel, History Channel, etc ...

I guess I am wasting this reply since you're not looking. If you're there RYD, have a good evening.

[Huck BB62]

Ann Coulter responded better than me:

That's very well said, and I can't say I disagree.

I guess my concern comes from the disconnect link in their instacheck system. In my opinion, the mental institutions and courts should be on that database. When a nutjob is well documentented as this sackof**** was, his name should've been flagged, period. If we're going to be able to keep our guns, we need to be able to weed out these people. They're krappin' in the punchbowl. Gun registration is here to stay, it should be worth something more than a revenue generator and a way to hassle the law abiding gun owners. Since we have to do it, let's use it to our advantage and weed out the kooks and criminals and lend legitimacy to our cause. After thousands and thousands of gun laws haven't prevented this kind of thing from happening, perhaps there IS a solution already at hand and we aren't utilizing it? It's all very reminiscent of the 911 attack. People knew, it still happened. As in the 911 attack, the flight instructor schools copped out to "We did nothing against the law, neither did they", the shop that sold sackof**** the guns is saying basically the same thing.

Yeah, technically, nobody did anything wrong, but added up, it sure did add up to a whole hell of a lot of wrong.

Common sense. We're sorely lacking.

[MarineHawk]

That's very well said, and I can't say I disagree.

I guess my concern comes from the disconnect link in their instacheck system. In my opinion, the mental institutions and courts should be on that database. When a nutjob is well documentented as this sackof**** was, his name should've been flagged, period. If we're going to be able to keep our guns, we need to be able to weed out these people. They're krappin' in the punchbowl. Gun registration is here to stay, it should be worth something more than a revenue generator and a way to hassle the law abiding gun owners. Since we have to do it, let's use it to our advantage and weed out the kooks and criminals and lend legitimacy to our cause. After thousands and thousands of gun laws haven't prevented this kind of thing from happening, perhaps there IS a solution already at hand and we aren't utilizing it? It's all very reminiscent of the 911 attack. People knew, it still happened. As in the 911 attack, the flight instructor schools copped out to "We did nothing against the law, neither did they", the shop that sold sackof**** the guns is saying basically the same thing.

Yeah, technically, nobody did anything wrong, but added up, it sure did add up to a whole hell of a lot of wrong.

Common sense. We're sorely lacking.

I wish we could distinguish the truly dangerous types of nuts in advance from the non-dangerous ones, but I'm skeptical. Preventing 9-11 would probably be a lot easier because you had a number of people communicating and planning a group terrorist attack. The VT gunner was a nut, but he was a loner and probably didn't tell anyone he was going to commit mass murder. He just never talked to anybody. He wrote crazy stuff, but there's a lot of that going around. Major mass shootings here have been occuring every eight years in the U.S. I can't see people allowing the state or federal governments to round up the hundreds of thousand of wierdos in this 300,000,000-person country to prevent a mass shooting every eight years or so.

For example I heard Sean Hannity on the XM radio repeatedly express outrage that no one took serious action against the VT gunner, even though he weirdly didn't respond in the dorm to routine hello-type greetings. He just weirdly looked away. It's wierd I know, but a partner in my law firm does the same thing. I can't see them descending on his home, taking his computer, and seriously investigating him on that basis.

It would be open to serious abuse. According to our Surgeon General: "According to current epidemiological estimates, at least one in five people has a diagnosable mental disorder during the course of a year (i.e., 1-year prevalence)." http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/library/mentalhealth/chapter2/sec2_1.html

Are we going to have our government and gun stores identify and investigate 60,000,000 mentally ill people (30M/5) to prevent the next mass shooting? Even if appropriate, I don't think it's possible. We live in a free society. We enjoy great benefits from that. We also face some greater dangers.

Germany has the most absolute form of gun control, and that didn't prevent the Erfurt Massacre--a school shooting there in 2002 involving 16 fatalities. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erfurt_massacre

[Huck BB62]

So we have ourselves a dilemma. We have on the one hand a segment of the society that wants no controls on anything morally, thereby establishing a morally bankrupt society. Products of this society are becoming more commonplace and commit atrocities like this guy did. Now it looks like we get to pay for it twice. We get to live in an ever increasingly morally disfuctional society with all of the costs that this incurs (again, check out the evening news, collegehumor.com, youtube, hell, the entire internet, hell, watch CSPAN!) and we get to lose our rights because their "freedom" is fuggin' up our society?

What a mess.

I do believe we're on the same page here, we've seen the enemy, and it is us.

[GLBLWARMR]

Interesting read:

Signs of Intelligence?

By Fred Thompson

One of the things that's got to be going through a lot of peoples' minds now
is how one man with two handguns, that he had to reload time and time again,
could go from classroom to classroom on the Virginia Tech campus without
being stopped. Much of the answer can be found in policies put in place by
the university itself.

Virginia, like 39 other states, allows citizens with training and legal
permits to carry concealed weapons. That means that Virginians regularly sit
in movie theaters and eat in restaurants among armed citizens. They walk,
joke, and rub shoulders everyday with people who responsibly carry firearms
- and are far safer than they would be in San Francisco, Oakland, Detroit,
Chicago, New York City, or Washington, D.C., where such permits are
difficult or impossible to obtain.

The statistics are clear. Communities that recognize and grant Second
Amendment rights to responsible adults have a significantly lower incidence
of violent crime than those that do not. More to the point, incarcerated
criminals tell criminologists that they consider local gun laws when they
decide what sort of crime they will commit, and where they will do so.

Still, there are a lot of people who are just offended by the notion that
people can carry guns around. They view everybody, or at least many of us,
as potential murderers prevented only by the lack of a convenient weapon.
Virginia Tech administrators overrode Virginia state law and threatened to
expel or fire anybody who brings a weapon onto campus.

In recent years, however, armed Americans - not on-duty police officers -
have successfully prevented a number of attempted mass murders. Evidence
from Israel, where many teachers have weapons and have stopped serious
terror attacks, has been documented. Supporting, though contrary, evidence
from Great Britain, where strict gun controls have led to violent crime
rates far higher than ours, is also common knowledge.

So Virginians asked their legislators to change the university's "concealed
carry" policy to exempt people 21 years of age or older who have passed
background checks and taken training classes. The university, however,
lobbied against that bill, and a top administrator subsequently praised the
legislature for blocking the measure.

The logic behind this attitude baffles me, but I suspect it has to do with a
basic difference in worldviews. Some people think that power should exist
only at the top, and everybody else should rely on "the authorities" for
protection.

Despite such attitudes, average Americans have always made up the front line
against crime. Through programs like Neighborhood Watch and Amber Alert, we
are stopping and catching criminals daily. Normal people tackled "shoe
bomber" Richard Reid as he was trying to blow up an airliner. It was a truck
driver who found the D.C. snipers. Statistics from the Centers for Disease
Control and Prevention show that civilians use firearms to prevent at least
a half million crimes annually.

When people capable of performing acts of heroism are discouraged or denied
the opportunity, our society is all the poorer. And from the selfless
examples of the passengers on Flight 93 on 9/11 to Virginia Tech professor
Liviu Librescu, a Holocaust survivor who sacrificed himself to save his
students earlier this week, we know what extraordinary acts of heroism
ordinary citizens are capable of.

Many other universities have been swayed by an anti-gun, anti-self defense
ideology. I respect their right to hold those views, but I challenge their
decision to deny Americans the right to protect themselves on their campuses
- and then proudly advertise that fact to any and all.

Whenever I've seen one of those "Gun-free Zone" signs, especially outside of
a school filled with our youngest and most vulnerable citizens, I've always
wondered exactly who these signs are directed at. Obviously, they don't mean
much to the sort of man who murdered 32 people just a few days ago.

- Fred Thompson is an actor and former United States senator from Tennessee.

C ABC

[MarineHawk]

I thought that was good too. Another from Goldberg, who is one of my favorites at getting at the point:


... With the light of hindsight, some say the warning signs should have been spotted. But this assumes that strange and disgruntled people are a rarity and that all of them are candidates to become mass murderers. The reality is almost exactly the opposite. Strange minds and tortured souls are all around us, particularly on college campuses.

Shall we now have the psychological equivalent of the zero-tolerance mania that causes children with aspirin to be carted off by police? Shall we unleash the white coats on every misanthrope and muttering grudge holder?

I confess, I’ve played the game of trying to find meaning in tragedy more than once myself and I probably will again. But not this time. Not with Cho. The only meaning I can find supported by the horrific, heartrending evidence is that once again the mystery of evil has been corroborated, the permanence of tragedy confirmed.
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NzQ1NmFjYmE1ODZjODQ5ZGE5YTk4N2YzOTYxMGM2OTE=

[KenP]

- Fred Thompson is an actor and former United States senator from Tennessee.

C ABCAnd hopefully a presidential candidate since Jim Gilmore can't get his off the ground.:(