What does everything think about the gas/h20 mix for big fuel efficiency..?

[CrackerJackToy]

I got to reading around & looking on youtube, and I noticed that using gas/h20 mix will yeild very high gas mileage increase. You must run two seperate tanks, one for gas, one for water, but should yield 20+mpg on the h2 in the city. It should also yield 28-30mpg in the city for my Corvette, if its as true as the customer testimonials.

I figured I would ask everyones opinion here, since $4 a gallon & only rising really hurts. :soapbox:

[TXSUT]

Snake oil.

[HummerJim]

Water injection on piston and turbine engines is not new. It was used tested by Tom McHale in Mechanics Illustrated in the 50s on a '57 T -bird (yep, I'm an old fart, but I loved his car reviews). His verdict was it did nothing at all. The original Boeing 720, 707 and KC 135 used water injection as a means of increasing the density of the air flowing out of the burner cans, but it used a tremendous amount of water.
The most famous pitson engine with water injection was the Pratt and Whitney R4360 producing 3800 horsepower on the C124, Globemaster. The water injection system required ADI or ADF (anti detonation fluid), but the water injection system was disabled on all the engines in the '70s because of burnt pistons and valves due to uneven combustion caused by water injection. Anti detonation fluid was required because adding water to gas lowers its octane rating (dillutes it) while increasing the mixture's density. Water injection on the R4360 was used to increase horsepower when overgrossed, but had no effect on pounds of fuel burned..

[MDimitri]

If there is no symptom of degradation to valves, pistons, rings and actual Hydrogen & Oxygen burn in the cylinder along with atomized fuel then this is a viable alternative. The below numbers are impressive: Albeit some of the numbers barely get by the 50% mark. A negligible improvement was on the GMC-2500, but still enough for the owner to realize a savings.

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn277/H2Dimitri/HydroAssistFuelCell.jpg

[Fastest H-Town Realtor]

Methanol Inject is a biggie on blown engines where detonation may be a problem, but on a N/A otto cycle auto motor it is nothing but a way to sell water injection kits to folks who believe market hype and in theinlg like the Tornator...or whatever that cut up Coke can thing is they stick in the CAI.

[CrackerJackToy]

If there is no symptom of degradation to valves, pistons, rings and actual Hydrogen & Oxygen burn in the cylinder along with atomized fuel then this is a viable alternative. The below numbers are impressive: Albeit some of the numbers barely get by the 50% mark. A negligible improvement was on the GMC-2500, but still enough for the owner to realize a savings.

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn277/H2Dimitri/HydroAssistFuelCell.jpg

This is exactly what im talking about. Hydrogen based alternative fuel.

(Sorry for putting h20 which is water in the title, guys.) I am FULLY aware of what methanol/alcohol/water injection is, and how it works. I used to drive an evo, and that is the every day norm for evo drivers to do. Although, I am NOT talking about water injection here, rather, I meant hydrogen!

A local guy here on my local car forum has a home made kit he put together for his bike. :eek: He claims before he was getting 60mpg, and after the kit (which I could have swore he said gas and h20 mix), he claims hes getting 150mpg. I believe he is running straight hydrogen though, and not a hydrogen/gas mix.

I figure, why not implement this into the H2, and get 25mpg in the city.

[CrackerJackToy]

Here is a quote from him, from earlier.

I build a hydrogen generator that basically has 2 stainless plates that conduct 20 amps through a very small cell that then produces what is called brown's gas. It splits the Oxygen and hydrogen atoms and converts them to a gas. So you get hyrdrogen (which is the fuel) WITH OXYGEN which makes more power.

It got 60mpg before the cell.

[NoMoGMPG]

If there is no symptom of degradation to valves, pistons, rings and actual Hydrogen & Oxygen burn in the cylinder along with atomized fuel then this is a viable alternative. The below numbers are impressive: Albeit some of the numbers barely get by the 50% mark. A negligible improvement was on the GMC-2500, but still enough for the owner to realize a savings.

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn277/H2Dimitri/HydroAssistFuelCell.jpg

This such a crock of psuedo-science and junk documentation. Hydrogen by itself has virtually no power output when burned. It is also a ganged element, meaning that in natural form, 2 atoms are bonded, i.e. H2. (Clever huh, H2 forum...oh nevermind). In a typical hydrocarbon, there can be up to 26 Hydrogen atoms PER molecule! The claims that a vehicle mounted electralysis device will convert milliliters of water into enough hydrogen to propel a full size vehicle hundreds of kilometers is ludicrious.

HHO gas, or Brown's gas, can and does burn hot. That's it, but as an alternative fuel source? No way. There isn't enough BTU per gram. Also, it is extremely dangerous to store, a single blowback can destroy the generator system very fast, think Hindenberg.

The best way to utilize Hydrogen is the fuel cell, stripping the single electron, utilize the negative charge for "work", then returning it to its proton unchanged where it is combined with oxygen to make water. I'm all for that, bring on the diesel/fuel cell electric Hummer! We would be able to sneak right up and drive over the leaf lickers as they sniff their self-righteous asses and lick psychodelic toad skin.

[CrackerJackToy]

This such a crock of psuedo-science and junk documentation. Hydrogen by itself has virtually no power output when burned. It is also a ganged element, meaning that in natural form, 2 atoms are bonded, i.e. H2. (Clever huh, H2 forum...oh nevermind). In a typical hydrocarbon, there can be up to 26 Hydrogen atoms PER molecule! The claims that a vehicle mounted electralysis device will convert milliliters of water into enough hydrogen to propel a full size vehicle hundreds of kilometers is ludicrious.

HHO gas, or Brown's gas, can and does burn hot. That's it, but as an alternative fuel source? No way. There isn't enough BTU per gram. Also, it is extremely dangerous to store, a single blowback can destroy the generator system very fast, think Hindenberg.

The best way to utilize Hydrogen is the fuel cell, stripping the single electron, utilize the negative charge for "work", then returning it to its proton unchanged where it is combined with oxygen to make water. I'm all for that, bring on the diesel/fuel cell electric Hummer! We would be able to sneak right up and drive over the leaf lickers as they sniff their self-righteous asses and lick psychodelic toad skin.

Ok, so then how about gasoline + hydrogen injection if hydrogen has no power output?.. Hydrogen is very flammable. There is a HUGE amount of people who have test hydrogen injection over the net who have great & positive results. I have yet to come across someone who has tried it & had no results whatsoever. But then again... you & I have never tried, so we cant really give any real input here.

[NoMoGMPG]

Ok, so then how about gasoline + hydrogen injection if hydrogen has no power output?.. Hydrogen is very flammable. There is a HUGE amount of people who have test hydrogen injection over the net who have great & positive results. I have yet to come across someone who has tried it & had no results whatsoever. But then again... you & I have never tried, so we cant really give any real input here.

Unless results are documented in a controlled closed enviroment, any claim to "positive" results are subjective. More like superfluous hyperbole. The simple rule in both chemistry and physics is you cannot get out more energy than you put in, that would be equal to perpertual motion. So, in theory, you will extract the energy from burning H2 and O2 equal to or less than, the energy to seperate the molucule. Hardly substantial.

The only way Hydrogen would be of any benefit to a modern gasoline burning engine is in compressed liquid form, which I highly doubt can be attained by these "huge amount of people" on the net. Those hydrogen bubblers I've seen on Youtube wouldn't produce enough hydrogen to fill a combustion chamber in a minute, let alone at 4-5k RPM.

[CrackerJackToy]

Well I plan to conduct my own testing, & I will update everyone with my findings. :)

[johndjmix1]

Just got back from RAMP Hummer today, got a new battery and clearance light under warantee.

While talking to the service Manager, he told me about a guy they deal with that has put on one of these hydrogen/gas units and it averaging around 27MPG. He said this was confirmed by others that have drive the H2 and by the avg fuel econ display.

Would the display show such an increase? How does the display get a readout? I was thinking from a VAC sensor? Does it actually look at the injector pulses and figure it out from that?

I have to plug the dealer real quick, as their serivce is simply awesome. I didnt even buy the truck from them, but still they are always ready to help. I just show up and they do the work right there, on the spot, and seem to have almost everything in stock. Never have I had an issue, had to argue a point, or to prove anything to them. Even If i have to pay a bit more, I will buy my next truck from them. This is really what helps the brand, dealers like this.

--John

[HUMMERcustoms.com/TAZ]

If hydrogren say were to work. Has anyone thought of the next issue.

Liquid hydrogen is a hazordous material that does require a hazmat endoursement on a CDL license. Perhaps in smaller amounts it is OK?

Just thought I would mention as I'm curious at least on this part.

TAZ

[CrackerJackToy]

Just got back from RAMP Hummer today, got a new battery and clearance light under warantee.

While talking to the service Manager, he told me about a guy they deal with that has put on one of these hydrogen/gas units and it averaging around 27MPG. He said this was confirmed by others that have drive the H2 and by the avg fuel econ display.

Would the display show such an increase? How does the display get a readout? I was thinking from a VAC sensor? Does it actually look at the injector pulses and figure it out from that?

I have to plug the dealer real quick, as their serivce is simply awesome. I didnt even buy the truck from them, but still they are always ready to help. I just show up and they do the work right there, on the spot, and seem to have almost everything in stock. Never have I had an issue, had to argue a point, or to prove anything to them. Even If i have to pay a bit more, I will buy my next truck from them. This is really what helps the brand, dealers like this.

--John

Impressive results. Probably highway results though.

[johndjmix1]

27mpg highway is fine in my book!

--John

[kalantar]

I would be very happy with 27 mpg.

[BlueTJCO]

Just got back from RAMP Hummer today, got a new battery and clearance light under warantee.

While talking to the service Manager, he told me about a guy they deal with that has put on one of these hydrogen/gas units and it averaging around 27MPG. He said this was confirmed by others that have drive the H2 and by the avg fuel econ display.

Would the display show such an increase? How does the display get a readout? I was thinking from a VAC sensor? Does it actually look at the injector pulses and figure it out from that?


--John


You should see what gas mileage I can get my display to read at sometimes......:twak:

[BlueTJCO]

Impressive results. Probably highway results though.

Prob bull **** results. If this was practical and easy on a new vehicle it would be everywhere, and it wouldn't have taken higher gas prices and a forum to dig it up.....

:violin:

[TRUBRIT]

Well.....it is out there.
http://www.water-for-fuel-scam.com/index7bfuel.htm
They have tried these in the Big Rigs too. Not so successful with the Diesel Engine.
On the news the other day they had a test car running around Tokyo running with just a Hydrogen Generator. Only water as the fuel.
Everyone was sceptical about running a Diesel on old cooking oil....now look. XTreme 4x4 was showing in detail how to make your own Bio Fuel. Works out to $1.20. Kit costa $8,000.00.
Don't blow off the Hydrogen idea too quick.

[johndjmix1]

So no one here is going to spend the $65 to $300 to try this out?????

Ive tried out enough stuff (Bud Light, Corona, Miller), your guys turn.

--John

[DRTYFN]

I got to reading around & looking on youtube, and I noticed that using gas/h20 mix will yeild very high gas mileage increase. You must run two seperate tanks, one for gas, one for water, but should yield 20+mpg on the h2 in the city. It should also yield 28-30mpg in the city for my Corvette, if its as true as the customer testimonials.

I figured I would ask everyones opinion here, since $4 a gallon & only rising really hurts. :soapbox:
I'm also currious why you feel the need to troll with such a weak lure?
BTW, you should stay on vehicle sites that are appropriately related to yours.
http://youtube.com/user/abercrombie3607

[BigKofJustice]

HHO water systems are a scam and are geared towards people who fell asleep during Physics classes.

Note I'm not talking about hydrogen fuel cells or water injection here but people that are trying to covert water from hydrogen on the fly in their vehicles.

Hydrogen generation from water has one big hurdle to overcome. The amount of energy you have to spend to convert it.

[wildthing]

Ok Guys I am New Here..I own a company in Canada & we have just finished a hydrogen unit..I also own a H2 & am looking forward to testing our unit on my rig...I have just returned from flordia where i spent a few days learning how to reprogram the E.C.M ..The problem is that when we use the hydrogen
the computor thinks the rig is running lean..and dumps more fuel in .So we have to reprogram the E.C.M. to accept the hydrogen...Our first unit we did was a ford explorer was getting 12 mpg on the highway...After reprograming the ecm & adding the hydrogen we topped out at a amazing 32mpg hwy.We are takeing my rig to flordia first part of august to superchip customing tuning to run some dyno testing on the ecm & hydrogen...Keep you posted if we even get close to the results of the explorer we will have a winner

[devilsfan]

Old thread, but I'm bumping to see if anyone ended up trying this out on their rig.

My dad is adding an HHO system to his Chevy diesel pickup this weekend. 2 close friends of his have it on their trucks and have seen about an 60-90% increase in mpg. A mechanic friend is doing the install.

I'm keeping an eye on it to see if it really works or not. It could get my mileage up to the double digits. My main concern would be if it voided warranty, tho.

Stacy

[lonePalm]

Hey guys I'm trying it also,I'm in the process of building the hydrolyzer cell out of poloycarbonate plastic, what the hell it only cost me $200 in the correct materials, so if it Doesnt work it sure wouldnt be the first $200 I've wasted. What can it hurt......it would be worth an extra 3 miles to a gallon for me. That would also mean something musta worked.....

[HUMMERcustoms.com/TAZ]

I really do wish one of our forum Buds would build and give us updates on it. I have been reading stuff everywhere on this. I think you have to be careful about pushing your engine to lean. You would be adding more air so new tuning may be needed to increase fuel. It may just take larger injectors and maybe cooler plugs at first for caution.

It has me curious to see what it does. I'm thinking you should have wide band air/fuel ratio gauge from the start. I run a supercharger so I'm thinking after you test it and keep us up to date, I'm rattling around in my head about gaining more power without going up on boost more than it is. Then there is the thought of doubling boost and then this kit creating what would I guess boost more without having to change harmonic balancer since I already have as small a SC pulley as I really want to go.

In theory it sounds as it should work which if it does a person could use it for different reasons and in different ways. I could have a tune setup just for MPG running the kit getting even a few MPG's would be interesting. In my book it just adds another tool to create more versatility in my H2.

I am researching CNG setup on the H2 but, I do not like the added weight CNG adds to rig.

Well go for it and let us know what happens and if no one else is interested PM me with test data I would like intense and lot's of data. I normally like to try allot of new stuff but, health situation is slowing me down yet expect to have major problems taken care of by Jan. 1 2009.

We are going to be at SEMA 7 days. I plan to look and see if there are any vendors there demonstrating this technology.

Good Luck Hope it Works,

TAZ

[TRUBRIT]

Here is some interesting reading.
http://www.hydrorunner.com/products.html
This company is involved in the development of this car. 450HP Twin Turbo. 40 mpg estimated. Not clear whether this is with or without the optional twin turbos.
http://www.dupontregistry.com/autos/NewsCenter/NewsCenterDetails.aspx?mmysid=3036

[wildthing]

Well Guys Belive it or not i am running a Hydrogen Generator on my h2 2003 Before installing i was getting 10 mpg at 70 mph at 1900 rpm & now i am getting between 14 & 15 mpg at the same conditions

[Alan06SUT]

I think its Ghey. Get a prius if you want good mileage no some horse **** gimmick.

[wildthing]

Ok well i just showed our unit at the last may 24 canadian hummer club meet & we are going to install a unit on one of the members hummers so he can test & post the results any questions you can email me or log in to the Canadian Hummer Club & read About the Hydrogen Generator & yes we will be showing our unit at sema We should be in the super chip tunning booth..

Ron

[HUMMERcustoms.com/TAZ]

Superchips tuning is provided by HPtuners.com who sponsors my tuning equipment that Dragon and I will be going more in depth than the light tune we use now. They furnish all my software etc. They are good guys. 3 young guys got together and developed this tune which can be checked out at HPtuners.com. They got me setup right a few years back but, have done away with the serial port stuff and moved now to USB etc. the newer tech.
Man no telling how many individual people I have turned onto HPtuners.com. I'm proud of them as you can take a stock engine and use HPtuners on it and do a tune way better than handhelds. The software, laptops, and wideband sensing stuff would be to indepth for your everyday customer but, Superchips or HPtuners should be able to get a real good generic tune on handheld that also should have some choices to give the tune some flexibility.

I'm excited to see where you can go with this and then I may take your system and see what I can do with it on a full range of boost choices with my supercharged engine. Maybe we can work a sponsored kit since the rig will be getting seen by allot of people at carshows plus we plan to media blast the rig for a new paint scheme etc. to enter 2010 spring sema GM only 1 of 20 contest.

We will be at this year sema show so hope to get to catch you there. If it is working good, all the bugs worked out we may have a large distributor to hook you up with unless MSD has that since they own superchips. This would give them a first look. Keep us posted and best of luck.

TAZ



Ok well i just showed our unit at the last may 24 canadian hummer club meet & we are going to install a unit on one of the members hummers so he can test & post the results any questions you can email me or log in to the Canadian Hummer Club & read About the Hydrogen Generator & yes we will be showing our unit at sema We should be in the super chip tunning booth..

Ron