Headers - Ordered - Discuss install and options [Archive]

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pdxrealtor

07-17-2012, 08:32 PM

There's been a lot of talk about headers lately, but I haven't seen anyone pull the trigger or any serious talk of complete setups, installation setbacks, etc..

So I'd like to get this all in place.

I ordered the OBX with cats found here :

http://www.racingpartdepot.com/servlet/the-2113/OBX-Catted-Header-00-dsh-05/Detail

My first question is will I loose much by keeping the OEM muffler on the truck? I'm really not after sound, I like it quiet. I like to save money. I don't like to lose out on performance so if I have to I'll weld in a high flow muffler into the existing cat back setup. Why change the OEM pipes? Last thing I want is dual tips hanging out of the back where they obviously aren't meant to be. I like mine nice and hidden.

Any tips for installation? I've read use GM gaskets and bolts. Yes? No? What about high temp red sealant on gaskets and connection points?

Haven't looked into having these ceramic coated but have thought about it if the price is right. Thoughts?

Chip after install? Heard it's worth it. Who does them and which ones are known to be better?

Any other thoughts or advice?

Hellz

07-17-2012, 11:38 PM

i wish i could give you some input, but as of yet, this is still on my wish list.

glad to see you went with long tubes instead of the shorty's.

If you have a tuner, you might be able to contact the manf. and see if they do custom tunes, as you would get the most out of the headers with a tune. cant tell you the $$ for a custom tune except for diablo tuners.besides the cost of the actual tuner, there is a guy is who/ isnt affiliated with diablo who does custom tunes. costs about 150ish. http://www.dslogredux.com/DiabLew_Tune/ if you want to read up more about it.

another company that iirc actually programs your ECM is Nelson performance. http://nelsonperformance.com/
highly recommended, and respected. unless your willing to be out of your H2 for a few days while they program it, then you will need to fork out $$$ for another PCM which i have seen cost from $250 to 500.

if you have a dyno shop around that can do AWD vehicles.. they should be able to program as well.. costs about $300 to $500.

i dont think you would run in to any issues keeping the OEM muffler and pipes except....

you might/will have to have a custom Y pipe made to connect the OBX to the OEM. i would recommend not welding if you dont have to just in case you need to change out the muffler later.

now that i think about it.. another issue you may run in to is that the OEM pipes cant get the exhaust out fast enough and it builds back pressure. the OBX might put out more exhaust and the OEM being just one pipe might not be able to keep up. i doubt this situation would really effect you, but something that my one retarded braincell brought up as i typed this.

if you are doing this yourself, please take some pics or do a brief write up. this seems straight forward to me, but i would be more interested in the tricky or the PITA parts of the install more.

[__--MUD--__]

07-17-2012, 11:46 PM

Because our rides weight as much as they do, there isn't and single mod or even light combo of mods that will make any real "holy ****" noticable performance difference.

I think all the header talk is due to a new generation of used H2 owners taking over and wanting to mod...now that you can pick one up pretty reasonable. I would't spend the money on it unless there are issues w/ stock manifolds leaking or broken bolts.

I've never heard any complaints against the GM gaskets. You definately want to use good high quality header gaskets. The cheap ones will crush and expand giving you constant nightmares keeping the damn bolts tight. Believe me on this...I'm getting the gaskets swapped out on my LS1 on monday after dealing w/ that **** for the last 5 years. The shop is putting GM gaskets on it. I dont have the patience anymore to work on a f-body. ;)

There is no chip on our rides...You are going to want a tune installed. You can get a mail order where you send out your computer to get programmed - starting out around $250. Id check out performancetrucks.net and lstech.com. Alot of good info there. Get a hold of one of the higher volume tuners, you can just tell them your mods and they most likely will already have a dead on tune for your ride.

I'd just keep what you have from cat back untill its rotted out. Again your not going to notice any performance difference.

Ceramic will look like **** after a while also, I wouldn't pay extra for it. My next set will be wrapped- cut down on engine bay heat.

Every motor I've run on stock tune w/ headers has felt like I lost alot of torque. Custom tune has always got that back.

Post pics and make sure to give your opinion on the install, performance, etc..

pdxrealtor

07-18-2012, 03:27 AM

This is all great info! Exactly what I was hoping to get started.

Update- the headers shipped and it looks like they're going to be here Thursday. I was surprised as the payment processing was kind of sketchy... merchant account wouldn't take any of my cards and vendor reply to my emails was not very quick for a retail vendor. Phone wasn't answered and it took about 24 hours for response.

TO NOTE- the website I ordered from is also on EBAY. I saved 90.00 by searching high and low. One company on Google shopping had the matched price but when going to their website it was jacked up to Ebay price. When contacted they would not change their price. Really bugs me when companies do this. I reported them to Google shopping, and OBX, and today they're not showing up under search results. GOOD! They were E something or another. Started with capital E....

Another thing to note. The website I bought them from is now out of stock, but they're EBAY page is still showing one left for sale. Thought I'd point this out in case anyone of the members here who has been talking about headers decides to jump on the purchase. Might want to double check...

Now that all of that is out of the way (did you even read it all?? :redx: LOL) Let's get to discussing.

One thing that's really sticking in my mind is something MUD mentioned. No ceramic coating... OK... makes sense, it was a long shot I was going to spend the time to do it anyways. However wrapping the pipes really got my attention. Should I wrap them for heat purposes? It would also protect them..

It's funny, because I can feel even the littlest mod simply because the H2 is such a dog to begin with. Not expecting much from just the LT headers...

RE: the gaskets- wouldn't it be a good idea to put a bead of high temp red sealant on the header? I did this on all my jet ski exhausts and it worked perfect.

RE: the tune (thanks for the links- good info for the thread!) I'll have to look into the options a bit more. I like the idea of the hand held programmer and paying a bit for the program to throw on the ECU via the programmer, but I haven't priced out the programmers so that comment could be way off! I will surely be looking for a tune. Dyno tune is out.. this is a very mild mod hummer. I did dyno tunes with my past S/C and turbo cars- thousands in mods. One thing that comes to mind with the tune is when I get board in the future I think the fan mod would be something I could do improve horsepower and MPG. In reading recently there's some ECU programming that could need to be done. A side from that I can't imaging what else I'd need to adjust a program for. But that's just the thing... always expect the unexpected... right? With my personality there's a damn good chance I'll end up with a blower, and a head/cam/intake etc.... :notallthere: :notallthere:

I'm really hoping the cat back (OEM) bolts right up. If not I think the shop I'll be using has a guy that's skilled enough to cut and mend the OEM setup for minor adjustments. That's the plan as of now... OEM muffler. Pipes shouldn't matter and I have no desire, as mentioned above, to get fancy tips. HELLZ, you mentioned dual tips/mufflers. Aren't there several cat back systems that are single mufflers anyways? I don't think going from one outlet to two outlets on a muffler would make any difference at all. Now.. having two mufflers, one per side, I can see helping flow. But in this case too much flow would mean less low end torque anyways. At the MOST I'll get a high flow muffler that bolts right up to the OEM cat back and is QUIET QUIET. I had a mustang and got rid of the cats all together. It freakin' screamed, but that sh*t got old on any distance of a trip. Plus that was 10 years ago. My drone/noise threshold has gone way down since then.

This is great discussion... keep opinions and advice coming.

Bolts... is going through the hassle of getting the updated GM bolts going to help with backing out issue? I guess if I'm not going to use the kits gaskets I could pick up bolts too. But what about the red gasket sealer? I hate paying for something just to buy what it lacks. :lame:

I will take pics from start to finish. My buddy whose helping me has helped me on some pretty big projects and I've always taken pics. I just keep the beers cold and flowing and it's all good. :beerchug:

Hellz

07-18-2012, 05:47 AM

forgot all about the bolts.

i have no hard feelings towards Gm products, but if "I" was to go through this process, i would put after market bolts on. afterall, it is the original GM bolts that were snapping and causing all the butt pain.

i would invest in some good ARP bolts. something hat is proven to stand up to the heat, and stress.

LoJac963

07-18-2012, 07:35 AM

Back when I had my LS2 GTO there were many threads regarding welds breaking on headers that had been wrapped. Unless the metal is extremely high quality along with the welds it has been shown that wrapping MAY cause premature failure of the headers, joints, welds, etc.

Ceramic coating is also by far FAR SUPERIOR to wrapping headers. However they have to be coated inside and out to keep the temperature within the primaries. If you do get them coated be sure to use a well respected place-excellent quality product and application should not discolor as described above. I have seen Kooks headers with thousands of miles on them on heavily modded LS2's with ceramic coating and they look just as good as the day they were coated.

Just my two cents for you to consider.

I too will be adding headers eventually to the rig. Not to jump on the mod train as mentioned but aftermarket headers with smooth primaries obvously flow better than cast iron factory manifolds.

NJ H2

07-18-2012, 09:17 AM

H2Much

07-18-2012, 04:19 PM

When you order from Dynatech, they provide you with all of the hardware for install already; stainless bolts, stainless gaskets, everything for the full replacement, so you shouldn't need to purchase additional stuff.

For install, it will be a little complicated as you will need to work to get the old or broken off bolts out, and then get it lifted up to get those things worked up in there to bolt on. They are a little tricky, but if you are just doing headers and nothing else, shouldn't be too bad. Like I said, most of the work is getting the old bolts out and working the headers around to get them fitted up into engine area. Not sure if you are lifted or not, but it is tricky to work them in there.

pdxrealtor

07-18-2012, 10:41 PM

Hmmm.. wouldn't want to wrap them if that causes issues. Good info! I had ceramic shorties on my Mustang and they never started looking old. They were ceramic coated.

What about a powder coat? Just to keep them looking nice? That chrome is going to color up and it will eventually look like ****.

NJ H2- that's a great deal, but won't running those into the OEM restrictive cats kind of negate most of the hard work and payoff??

Whose Gary and why did he tell you to use those bolts? I have an order at my local Fastenal I need to pick up. I'd like more info on the why's as I'll pick them up myself if it's worth it.

What about gaskets? Use the ones in the kit with some high temp or what?

I was told today, by the store I purchased my headers from, that I might need O2 extenders. Anyone know by chance? These aren't stocked locally....

I was able to confirm the OEM cat back will bolt right up. :clapping:

H2Much

07-18-2012, 11:30 PM

O2's will fit on the stock set up the same. I got the headers with the high flow cats and the high flow cats came with extenders to put the stock O2's in and it works fine. The gaskets are stainless and are already designed for racing high temp, same as the bolts, so you should be good with everything they send with it- Don't really understand why someone would tell you to buy different bolts and such if the one's that come with it are already high end high temp.

Either way I would suggest going with high flow cats or straight pipe anyways as you want that exhaust to keep flowing after it runs through the headers. Just my opinion, but I really do like the setup.

pdxrealtor

07-19-2012, 12:21 AM

H2-- I bought the kit from OBX, not from Dynatech. Mine came with the high flow cats, not just the headers. But I don't believe it comes with the extensions.

The OBX are copies of the Dynatechs so if you needed extensions, so will I.

Still would like to hear what role the guy who said get the zinc bolts plays. Is he from Dynatech, AutoAnything, .. ??

EDIT- looks like my kit doesn't come with bolts anyways... solves that problem.

NJ H2

07-19-2012, 08:44 AM

The gaskets are stainless and are already designed for racing high temp, same as the bolts, so you should be good with everything they send with it- Don't really understand why someone would tell you to buy different bolts and such if the one's that come with it are already high end high temp.
.

At first I was just going to replace the gaskets and bolts so I purchased the Fastenal replacements. Garry is a Forum member here is his post:
http://www.elcovaforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41269&highlight=Fastenal
Then I deceided to get the Dynatechs which come with the gaskets and bolts so now I'll have extra set of bolts.
As for the high flow cats I'm going to wait and see. Auto Anything told me that most of the Headers they sell are just headers without the High Flow Cats. If I think I need em I'lll get em but after their statement I couldn't justify an additional $500. for the HF Cats when I could use that $500.00 to get a set of Ridgeds from Timmay :dancingbanana: :D

pdxrealtor

07-19-2012, 08:58 PM

Thanks for posting that NJH2... it's good reading and at the same time almost makes me wish I wouldn't have got these headers. And that's assuming none of my bolts break when I try to remove them. Some of the things Easy Ed posted in that thread, about removing this to get that... geeze.

I actually called an exhaust shop for kicks and was quoted 350.00 for install. No intention on going that route but was curious.

The headers showed up today. Looks complete except no bolts. I'll grab some of those yellow zinc bolts.

I've yet to inspect them carefully....

Hellz

07-19-2012, 09:37 PM

well the removal of the old bolts i woudl assume is going to be easier as you will be removing the old headers anyways.

hell, you could grind of the head of the bolts, slip the header off and WD40 the hell out of the bolt and use vicegrips or something on them. atleast then you would have more options to get at the bolt instead of just the head of it.

pdxrealtor

07-19-2012, 10:15 PM

I can see that going down hill real quick. Anytime bolts need to be removed with vice grips you automatically up the oh sh*t thresh hold.

If getting a socket head in to remove a bolt is a PITA I don't see how getting a grinder in is going to be easier.

I had the pass. fender well out to do the trans cooler install and it seems that would be a very easy way to attach the bolt install/removal.

Hellz

07-19-2012, 11:17 PM

i was just saying that you COULD grind the head off the bolts if you wanted to, but i agree, i wouldnt recommend it myself.

pdxrealtor

07-19-2012, 11:24 PM

Joe

07-20-2012, 08:30 PM

This past Sunday I ordered the Longtube Dynatech SuperMAXX SS Headers Part# 715-84110. Got a pretty smoking Deal from Auto Anything:
Regular Price: $1095.95
Discount Price: $799.99
Coupon 15% Off = $120.00
Paid $679.99 w/Free shipping!

http://a.cdnbrm.com/images/products/med/exhaust_systems/supermaxx_122_841310_header_reducer_hero.jpg

These bolt up to my OEM exhaust/cats. I'm not coating w/ceramic inside or out nor am I wrapping them. As you see them is how I am installing. Except I did get the new upgraded botls. I ordered these with the advice from Garry:
M8-1.25 x 30mm DIN 6921 Class Class 90 Yellow Zinc Serrated Flange Bolt
From Fastenal:
http://www.fastenal.com/web/products/detail.ex?sku=11115929&ucst=t
Seems to be too many possible issues w/extras.
They should be here in about a week. I'll post up after the install! I'm psyched!! :D

How did you get this pricing. Looked at there website and only see the $1099 price. Also any trick to getting the 15% coupon?

I am close to buying new headers as I have the broken bolt problem and was going to also go the OBX route but might reconsider if I could score the Dynatech's at this price.

Regardless. Great info in this post and curious how the installs all go.

seventwozero

07-20-2012, 10:34 PM

Well... just looked at the truck.

1 bolt head gone on driver side, closest to firewall. That's it though. I really hope this is a vice grip situation as that's the tightest spot.

Would it be better to heat the motor up before attempting removal of the header bolts?

You'll have better luck if you start soaking the bolts with a good penetrating (:shhh:) lubricant. When I had my mechanic do mine, he gave me a bottle of spray (triflo) and told me to give em a shot every day till the next time I brought it in (about a week). Aside from the two that were already broken, he managed to get the rest out without breaking them. As for the broken ones, he welded a nut onto what was left of the stud and backed them out.

In regards to your powder coating question, I'm not sure if anyone makes a powder coat that will withstand the temps you'll see on an exhaust manifold. Although, I'm not totally sure what kind of temps you'll see on the manifolds... You might be able to find some sort of a high temp paint, IE: I know guys that use grill paint on motor cycle pipes.

NJ H2

07-21-2012, 06:58 AM

How did you get this pricing. Looked at there website and only see the $1099 price. Also any trick to getting the 15% coupon?
Regardless. Great info in this post and curious how the installs all go.

If you happen to get this before midnight tonight you can use coupon code: EJL1219
They happen to send me an email containing that code. They seemed like wheeler Dealers so if you don't get that code in time I would call them and tell them a forum member just got it for $679. w/ free delivery and maybe they will give it to you at the same price. They were delivered today and will be installed next week. I'm not gonna mess with it I'm going to have them installed by a local shop.

NJ H2

07-24-2012, 01:59 AM

RE: DYNATECH HEADERS:

OK so AutoAnything told me the Dynatech Headers would bolt to my factory Cats!
They won't! :lame:

The shop doing my install called Dynatech and if you want to use Cats the factory Cats must be eliminated.
You must by the whole kit from Dynatech with High Flow Cats!

pdxrealtor

07-24-2012, 02:01 AM

Why is that? Any shop should be able to cut out the factory cats, and weld them back in down the line...

pdxrealtor

07-24-2012, 04:38 AM

You'll have better luck if you start soaking the bolts with a good penetrating (:shhh:) lubricant. When I had my mechanic do mine, he gave me a bottle of spray (triflo) and told me to give em a shot every day till the next time I brought it in (about a week). Aside from the two that were already broken, he managed to get the rest out without breaking them. As for the broken ones, he welded a nut onto what was left of the stud and backed them out.

In regards to your powder coating question, I'm not sure if anyone makes a powder coat that will withstand the temps you'll see on an exhaust manifold. Although, I'm not totally sure what kind of temps you'll see on the manifolds... You might be able to find some sort of a high temp paint, IE: I know guys that use grill paint on motor cycle pipes.

Thanks for the info..

I've been spraying mine with screw loose by CRC. I still haven't ordered the bolts as it might be a bit before I can get these installed.

My buddy with the lift is no longer available to me due to his douche bag boss (long story). so I 'll be spending some time in the drive way on jack stands doing the front end, lower ball joints-idler/pitman/cognito support, and hubs.

If I come across some cash before I'm done with the front end I might just have the exhaust installed although I can't stand the thought of someone else touching my rig....

Joe

07-30-2012, 03:18 AM

pdxrealtor

07-30-2012, 07:55 PM

Hey PDX, did you get your OBX system installed? How is it.

This is pretty much the system I am leaning towards. Dyna just a bit to expensive. For same price has just there headers you can get an OBX from headers all the way back to tips.

Also, expecting any problems with emissions with the hi-flow cats?

No- I just finished up a major service on our 06 Acura plus full detail in and out. It's my wife's car and I neglected it so I got to spend 2 full days on interior and exterior detail work.

This weekend I have my idler/pitman/support kit to install, along with two new hubs, and two new lower ball joints. So... Headers maybe the following weekend.

I better not have any emission issues with the high flow cats. Isn't that the point of the high flow cat? To still pass emissions, but get some better flow??

Geeze if I have to swap cats every two years I'm going to be pissed! :lame:

Joe

07-30-2012, 09:11 PM

I better not have any emission issues with the high flow cats. Isn't that the point of the high flow cat? To still pass emissions, but get some better flow??

Geeze if I have to swap cats every two years I'm going to be pissed! :lame:

lol, i hear you. Just figured I'd see if you heard anything different. Definitely let us know how the install goes and what your thought are. I very likely wont order mind for another week or so since i know with schedule it would just sit in garage anyway

LoJac963

07-31-2012, 01:51 AM

I too can't wait to see the install pics! One would assume the high flow cats would perform as they should, low emissions while providing higher flow. However at the same time you may run into the "you get what you pay for" issues.

Hopefully they do work as intended because I would definitely be interested in the same setup. I agree though, I only buy 1 year tags so that would be highly annoying to swap them out.

[__--MUD--__]

07-31-2012, 10:12 AM

Why is that? Any shop should be able to cut out the factory cats, and weld them back in down the line...

X2- Cut those bitches out and weld'em in where they need to be. Anyone compitent in exhaust work can do this.

pdxrealtor

08-16-2012, 03:43 AM

Picked up my class 90 Zink bolts today from fastenal. $50.00

Torque specs are- first pass to 11lbs, and a second to 18lbs

I will need O2 extenders. But I'm not sure how many... I though I saw 4 sensors. What kind will fit? I can't find any for hummer. Only GM and they all look different. This is a mail order deal so I want to get it right the first time.

What is the O2 socket size, can I just use a wrench? It appears so, but...

H2much ..... You out there? You mentioned jamming these in through the bottom. Is there NO WAY to install them from the top? I'm on wheel ramps or jack stands.

pdxrealtor

08-18-2012, 10:34 PM

This job is officially underway.

Driver side header off with no issues, except the one broken bolt head near the fire wall. Nice size stud sticking out of the head to get a grip on.

About to make sure none of the bolts break on the pass. side then I'll get out the grinder and remove the cat froward.

Been taking pics so I'll post when I'm done.

What I can say is easy easy access with wheel and wheel well liner removed.

Joe

08-19-2012, 02:23 AM

Awesome. Look forward to seeing more

H2Much

08-19-2012, 04:08 AM

Hey, sorry, haven't checked in for a few days. Yah, you will want to feed them through the bottom, but the challenge is getting the truck up high enough in the air. You can also put them in through the top, but you have to pull some stuff out and take it apart to get them in there. If you don't have a way to get it higher in the air, maybe going through the top would be better.

High flow cats should keep you good to go in OR. I too was concerned about it here in UT as they are anal as all hell with everything on emissions and safety. I almost couldn't pass safety instection because of my tires sticking out the side and my lift; though I have a very mild lift in my opinion. Pisses me off as I see trucks much more lifted than mine driving around without any problems getting registered. Anyway, let me know where you are at with this and I can provide you more detailed help if needed.

pdxrealtor

08-19-2012, 08:13 AM

Thx for your reply.

Headers are installed and cat forward to headers fit like a glove. I still need to sinch it all up in places between headers and muffler but it's all in place and I simply ran out of daylight and energy.

The O2 s fit with no extension. There are 3 bungs on each side. I need to get a bung plug (that's what she said! Lol) for 2 bungs.

That one bolt that busted off on driver side had a nice stud sticking out of the head. Turns out I had a full blown craftsman stud extractor kit in my box. I was stoked. Here's the sh*ter....I put the stud extractor piece on the ratchet and turned it a couple times Easy easy.... 2 turns later the bolt broke again... IN THE HEAD.... Damn.

My buddy had top of the line bits and easy outs ...... And skills.... And got it out. Pics to follow in my official write up. I took tons of pics.

Overall it's a one day job if you start early enough, I started at 1pm.

Fyii... OBX does not come with header bolts, and does not come with EGR block off plate which the hummer needs. A side from that fit was perfect.

More in the official thread with pics, to follow soon.

H2Much

08-19-2012, 11:44 PM

Nice man, glad you got it put back together and got it set! I too had to remove broken bolts when I did mine, pain in the a**. Took an entire day's worth of time just working on getting the broken bolts out. Luckily Dynatech sent me all super nice bolts and everything, so I was good to go on that. Looking forward to seeing your pics- I should have documented my work to but didn't think about it.

pdxrealtor

08-21-2012, 02:44 AM

Alrighty-- thanks to all who participated in this thread. It was great to have the discussion in preparation for the install.

My install is done. I'm happy with the mod, it was worth my time and money.

The write up is here http://www.elcovaforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42833

I somehow posted it in the pictures section. I'm hoping GURUERROR can move it for me so that link might change.

Hope it helps... for those who buy and install the headers let us know how it goes for you.