Ocean City Maryland beach hummer accident

[PARAGON]

911 center releases second tape in Assateague crash



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jennifer Lehman
Staff Writer

(March 18, 2005) Geographical coordinates that OnStar provided Emergency Services the evening of Feb. 5 were not given to Assateague Park rangers, a new 911 tape reveals.
However, whether those coordinates would have helped in the search for 25-year-old Adam Starkey and 24-year-old Jennifer Holly Ashe remains unclear.

The tape, which was released by Emergency Services this week, is a recording of the phone call between a 911 operator and an Assateague Park ranger. The call takes place after Emergency Services spoke to an OnStar representative, who informed them of a distress call from a vehicle located on the national seashore.

OnStar provided rough coordinates — 38.21 latitude and -75.14 longitude — to the 911 operator, but those numbers were not passed onto park rangers at the time.

“The incident we have is going on at the National Parks Service,” the 911 operator informed an Assateague Park ranger. “An emergency button was pushed to OnStar on a vehicle that’s a Hummer somewhere out there and they gave us coordinates, but we have no idea where this is.”

“OK. Did they say if they were on a road or on the beach,” asked the park ranger.

“They said it was on Assateague National Seashore and they gave us coordinates. That’s all they gave us,” replied the 911 operator.

In an earlier report, Robert Fudge, chief of visitor services for Assateague Island National Seashore, said the coordinates from OnStar were not an exact pinpoint of a location, but more of a general area.

“[The rangers] investigated with what they were given,” Fudge said on Feb. 23. “They looked in an area they thought was an appropriate area. It does sound like that it was very hard for them to get an exact location.”

According to Fudge, the park rangers did a thorough search of an area where off-road driving on the beach is permitted.

“They went on an off-road vehicle zone to find anybody that needed help,” Fudge said, adding during their search the park rangers assisted a couple whose vehicle was stuck in the sand. Starkey’s Hummer, however, was located in an area not permitted for off-road vehicles.

Surfers stumbled upon Starkey’s body lying next to his partially submerged 2004 Hummer the morning of Feb. 6. The next day, a park ranger found the body of Ashe.

Autopsy results revealed that Starkey and Ashe died of hypothermia, with contributory injuries from the accident.

Charles Waechter, an attorney representing families of both victims, continues to question why park rangers did such a limited search of the island when they received word of a distress call.

“How much time did [the park rangers] spend assisting the other vehicle and what did they do after that?” Waechter asked.

The recently released tape also reveals that no deputy from the Worcester County Sheriff’s Office was dispatched to the island that evening.

“How far away was your deputy?” the park ranger asked.

“Well, we cancelled him. Do you want us to go ahead and send him back in?” the 911 operator replied.

“…I will go ahead and respond myself,” the park ranger said. “You can tell him to disregard.”

Once the surfers discovered Starkey’s body and vehicle, nearly 12 hours after park rangers were alerted, a multi-agency search and rescue operation was activated.

[PARAGON]

Tale of tape



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jennifer Lehman
Staff Writer

(Feb. 25, 2005) Somebody pushed the emergency button inside the overturned 2004 Hummer the evening of Feb. 5, which subsequently alerted authorities of an accident somewhere on Assateague Island.
According to the 911 tape, which was released Tuesday morning by Worcester County Emergency Services, an OnStar operator told the 911 dispatcher he heard screaming coming from the vehicle, but did not know an exact location of the accident.

“I’m trying to give you a better street, or at least a crossing street, but I don’t have anything,” the OnStar operator said.

"That’s fine. That should be enough," replied the 911 dispatcher. "Did they give you coordinates or anything like that? … Cause there’s not really many streets back there, it’s just an island."

The OnStar operator eventually gave the 911 dispatcher coordinates – 38.21 latitude and -75.14 longitude.

"OK, we’ll see what we can do with that," the 911 dispatcher replied.

According to Robert Fudge, chief of visitor services for Assateague Island National Seashore, the coordinates were not an exact pinpoint of the location, but more of a general area.

"(The rangers) investigated with what they were given," Fudge said on Wednesday. "They looked in an area they thought was an appropriate area. It does sound like that it was very hard for them to get an exact location."

Surfers found the body of 25-year-old Adam Starkey and his partially submerged 2004 Hummer the morning of Feb. 6 – nearly12 hours after authorities received the OnStar alert.

A second body, that of 24-year-old Jennifer Holly Ashe, was found on the beach by a state park ranger on Feb. 7. Her body was located a half a mile south of the Ocean City Inlet and about four miles from the crash site.

According to reports, OnStar sent a distress call to the Worcester County Sheriff’s Office just after 9:30 p.m. on Feb. 5. The Sheriff’s Office subsequently alerted Assateague park rangers who, according to Fudge, did a "thorough search" of an area where off road driving on the beach is permitted, but were unable to locate any vehicles in distress.

"They went on an off road vehicle zone to find anybody that needed help," Fudge said recently. He added that during their search the park rangers assisted a couple whose vehicle was stuck in the sand.

The Hummer, which was severely damaged and found submerged in the ocean’s surf around 8 a.m., was located in an area not permitted for off road vehicles. Starkey’s body and vehicle were found on the beach, north of the park’s Sinepuxent Ranger Station.

The state medical examiner has confirmed Starkey died from a leg injury complicated by hypothermia. Ashe’s autopsy, however, is still pending.

In recent weeks, authorities have kept a tight lid on the investigation – revealing very little about what may have happened during the 12 hour period before the two victims were found.

Hummers typically contain a "Sensing Diagnostic Module" device, similar to a black box found in airplanes. Some SDM devices can reveal information such as the speed, how far the accelerator pedal was pressed, if the brakes were applied and whether the driver’s seatbelt was buckled.

However, it is unclear whether Starkey’s Hummer contained one of these devices or if authorities found it.

"That’s part of the investigation," Fudge said. "That’s the sort of thing law enforcement would be looking into."

[PARAGON]

New Details Emerge In Fatal Assateague Crash



Shawn J. Soper, Staff Writer

OCEAN CITY (02/18/2005) - While investigators may never know exactly what happened on the beach at Assateague Island, nearly two weeks when an off-road vehicle overturned and ultimately claimed the lives of its two occupants, new details emerged this week providing a little more insight into the moments after the crash.

On Saturday, Feb. 5, around 9:30 p.m., the OnStar vehicle-equipped emergency services system received a call from a vehicle in distress on Assateague Island. Using the provided latitude and longitude coordinates provided by OnStar, National Parks Service rangers initiated a search of the island, particularly focusing on the area designated for off-road vehicle traffic, but the search proved fruitless.

Early the next day, surfers discovered an overturned Hummer and the body of its driver, Adam Starky, 25, of Cockeysville, near it on the beach in the surf in an area where off-road vehicles are not allowed. A little more than 24 hours later, a state park ranger found the body of Starky’s passenger, Jennifer Holly Ashe, 24, also of Cockeysville, about a half-mile south of the Ocean City Inlet and roughly five miles north of the Hummer accident scene.

The State Medical Examiners Office this week officially determined the cause of Starky’s death to be leg injuries complicated by hypothermia. The official autopsy results for Ashe are still pending as of yesterday.

Because of the terrain and the lack of roads on the island, OnStar used its high tech global positioning system (GPS) to approximate the location of the distressed vehicle and relayed the information to the appropriate emergency response agencies.

“Our folks took the call and because there are no roads there, we provided longitude and latitude coordinates to emergency responders,” said OnStar Vice President of Communications Terry Sullivan.

While the series of events leading up to the accident may never be known, new details emerged this week about the initial call to OnStar.

The OnStar call center, which provides personalized emergency roadside assistance to equipped vehicles 24 hours a day and 365 days a year, receives calls from vehicles in distress in several different ways. For example, a deployed airbag or sensors on the vehicle detecting a moderate or severe collision can automatically transmit an emergency service call to OnStar.

However, in the case of the Hummer accident on Assateague, the call came from a distressed individual and not from a deployed airbag or other source, according to Sullivan.

“We received an emergency button press from an individual in or near the vehicle,” he said. “An air bag deployment did not trigger this one. The call was clearly made from a woman in distress.”

It now appears Ashe had the wherewithal to push the button to initiate the call to OnStar, but the emergency services facilitator was not able to make a verbal connection with the victim.

“We did receive the emergency key press but were never able to make verbal contact with the caller,” he said. “We could hear a woman in distress on the tape but it was unintelligible. We could hear screams but it was garbled.”

Sullivan said it was possible the caller was no longer in the vehicle when OnStar attempted to respond to her call for help.

“It almost sounded like the caller was outside the vehicle,” he said. “If that was the case, we would have been able to hear her, but she wouldn’t have necessarily been able to hear us.”

[LasVegas]

Very interesting.

[KenP]

38.21 latitude and -75.14 longitude. Looks wet to me. Something weird happened up there.
http://geography.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mapquest.com%2Fm aps%2Flatlong.adp

[LasVegas]

Checking to see if an H2 would float.

[PARAGON]

Less than a quarter of a mile from the ranger station (Toll Booth)

[PARAGON]

I guess the tide was out and they were out playing in the wet sand.

[Klaus]

I'd say if the Hummer was upside down the OnStar GPS unit wouldn't be getting a very good satellite lock, which would make the location less accurate.

[ckhagman]

We all know that Lat/Lon. coordinates are not very accurate but that 911 operator is a moron. She stated, "OK, we’ll see what we can do with that." It is like she didn't know what they would use them for. Of course OnStar has to get better with GPS coordinates. They should be standard practice when giving a location.

[Queen Sheba]

<span class="ev_code_BLUE">I am sorry, but why would they look in a place where they were permitted? Come ON! Human nature says that when we have a vehicle that makes us feel safe, we are going to test the limits anyway? They should have been looking in the place where they shouldn't have been. Maybe they would have found them sooner. That must have been a horrible way to die</span>

[RI Hummer]

28' of water my my chart at that location. I'm surprised the GPS coordinates are that far off

[Andy C]

Originally posted by Queen Sheba:
<span class="ev_code_BLUE">I am sorry, but why would they look in a place where they were permitted? Come ON! Human nature says that when we have a vehicle that makes us feel safe, we are going to test the limits anyway? They should have been looking in the place where they shouldn't have been. Maybe they would have found them sooner. That must have been a horrible way to die</span>

Its a statement like this that makes an ex Scottish Highlands volounteer mountain rescue team member shudder.
We frequently went out on calls looking for idiots "testing their limits in places where they shouldnt be".

Most of those people died horrible deaths as well.

[partsguy]

They have trails back there.I used to camp every
next to last weekend in may.Full of bogs and blood sucking flying ex wives.(mesqitos)I do not know how they got that far out,passed out from drinking maybe..

[MIZZOU H2]

Coulda just as easily been any one of us. Keep it safe folks and try not to wheel alone.

[ROX]

I guess OnStar is only as good as the people that answer the call. OnStar markets their whole system around the fact that they get help when you need it the most! That's supposedly what its for! Those park rangers should have known to keep looking. Why didn't someone alert the Coast Guard? They know what to do with GPS coordinates! I'm upset because it could have been me.

I agree with MIZZOU H2, keep it safe. Sorry for the rant. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

[tower]

Okay. As someone who is currently active in search and Rescue on a regular basis, I feel compelled to say a couple of things. Not having heard the actual tapes, and not being familiar with that part of the country, my comments will be few.

First, I agree that the OnStar operator could have been more emphatic about the significance of the coordinates. I differ with others in that I find GPS coordinates to be tremendously accurate and very helpful even when used for "last sighted" information. He/She also could have given a detailed description of the vehicle make, model, color. license plate number, drivers name, etc. That might have prevented the ranger's possible assumtion that finding "anybody that needed help" or "a couple... stuck in the sand" had disposed of the issue.

Clearly, the rangers didn't realize the seriousness of an OnStar distress call. So probably, there is a gap in their education.

Moreover, most agencies employ an ICS or Incident Command System, whereby no single individual calls off a search without input from a site commander and many other involved parties and agencies. If this system had been used, there probably would have been FLIR equipped helicopters looking for these two in very short order. It is impossible for me to say if this would have been life-saving.

I don't think there is any one person or agency upon whom we can place all the blame. But God knows, I would want things to run a lot more smoothly if I had a loved one out there in distress.

Echoing what others wrote, let's all keep it safe.

[PARAGON]

Tower alluded to this but I think this was simply a system breakdown. This was a breakdown with OnStar as well as the locals. Allow me to read between the lines and I'll explain:

One big key that Onstar has said since this incident is that it was not an airbag notification but someone pushed the button. This obviously lowered the priority of the call for Onstar. The other excuse Onstar gave was that the message was garbled or whatever and that it appeared the female was outside of the vehicle. So Onstar made the obligatory call and gave coordinates but I don't think they care much after that.

Many local emergency responders and 911 operators are not familiar at all with Onstar and/or it's capabilities and I imagine the Onstar operator gave a nonchalant attitude to the 911 operator on the call. I don't know how many false calls Onstar receives but I am thinking this was where the breakdown occured, that no priority was really given the emergency.

Where I do differ from Tower is the continued response and this is where my biggest issue lies with this whole ordeal. Onstar has the ability to track your vehicle for emergency purposes through GPS just like it did with the inital call here. But, if the Rangers went to the general location and didn't find anything, Onstar should have been contacted again to verify the vehicles current location. If it remained the same then they know something is up. If it is at an address in the city, a patrolman could be sent to verify, if there was no signal at all, then you go out in force to find them. There was obviously battery power immediately after the accident because Onstar was contacted. Onstar was able to get some general GPS coordinates from the vehicle. After the first sweep of the area, Onstar should have been contacted again to verify the vehicle's location. It doesn't appear that the full capability of Onstar was utilized at all in this situation.

[tower]

Dear Paragon,

I don't think I disagree with anything you have said. I was assuming that the coordinates that the Onstar operator gave, were the last available and that the vehicle submerged and quit transmitting. Hence, the full search.

I also agree that there was a system breakdown and had better choices been made by any number of individuals at a few different points in time, the outcome might have been less grim. I strongly suspect that there will be significant changes in interdepartmental policies consequent to this investigation. I just get really bummed when people have to pay with their lives for agencies to get their protocols together.

Be well friend,
t~

[Linda]

ok..... Im like really getting upset about this whole thing, and the way it was handled after reading these posts!

I was a dear freind of Adam (the driver of the hummer) and I have been doing so much research on the internet about the whole happenings of that night, when I stumbled upon this site. Very interesting, yet very very disturbing. Without a doubt they BOTH should be alive today if it werent for poor communication along with what appears to be a lot of poor dessions that night. Such as calling of the search the night that they could have been saved.

This is the first I have heard about a second 911 call, does anyone have any further info on that? Last I heard the 911 clearly could heard from the Onstar people that there was a girl in great distress.... to me that would be enough to have a bit more extensive search. Then another site I was on said that bassed on the cords that they gave, they certainly could have at least been in the general vasinity IF they had read them right!!

Sorry, dont mean to rant, but this was my freind!! And it makes me sick to think of him freezing to death out there while Jen went walking to get help and this whole thing could have very possibly ended on a much better note.

I know that Adam did feel fearless in his hummer, and apparently he was doing some pretty wild driving.

Soooo, so sad

-Linda

[PARAGON]

Originally posted by Linda:
ok..... Im like really getting upset about this whole thing, and the way it was handled after reading these posts!

I was a dear freind of Adam (the driver of the hummer) and I have been doing so much research on the internet about the whole happenings of that night, when I stumbled upon this site. Very interesting, yet very very disturbing. Without a doubt they BOTH should be alive today if it werent for poor communication along with what appears to be a lot of poor dessions that night. Such as calling of the search the night that they could have been saved.

This is the first I have heard about a second 911 call, does anyone have any further info on that? Last I heard the 911 clearly could heard from the Onstar people that there was a girl in great distress.... to me that would be enough to have a bit more extensive search. Then another site I was on said that bassed on the cords that they gave, they certainly could have at least been in the general vasinity IF they had read them right!!

Sorry, dont mean to rant, but this was my freind!! And it makes me sick to think of him freezing to death out there while Jen went walking to get help and this whole thing could have very possibly ended on a much better note.

I know that Adam did feel fearless in his hummer, and apparently he was doing some pretty wild driving.

Soooo, so sad

-Linda Linda, maybe you misunderstood or I have misunderstood. I don't think there was ever any mention of a second 911 call. I made the point that after the initial search turned up nothing, a simple call to Onstar to verify the location and/or signal from the truck should have taken place. But since the coordinates were never passed on to the Rangers from the 911 operator, even though Onstar gave the 911 operator the coordinates, I am sure this never crossed anyone's mind.

Also, I haven't read an article stating that the female passenger actually talked to the Onstar people. Here is a quote from OnStar Vice President of Communications Terry Sullivan taken from one of the newspaper articles on it:“We did receive the emergency key press but were never able to make verbal contact with the caller,” he said. “We could hear a woman in distress on the tape but it was unintelligible. We could hear screams but it was garbled.”
To be frank, without any knowledge except for what's been in print, it appears that, from the initial button call to Onstar to calling off the search, this was not given much priority and was an emergency systems failure from beginning to end. There was no sense of emergency from the 911 operators because they called off the sheriff's office and did not pass the coordinates along, there was obviously no sense of emergency to the rangers since they stopped to help get someone unstuck, Onstar keeps pointing to the fact that there was no airbag notification (sounding more like an excuse), and the Rangers' representative said they "looked" in all the places permitted for vehicles (sounds like another excuse).

All of this is just reading between the lines of what happened per the news reports. The fact that the coordinates were not used to begin with and then no one every followed up with Onstar to try to verify the vehicle's location is just lost on me.

[tower]

Dear Linda,

I have no information on this incident other than what I have read on this site. I wish I could be of more help. As things unfold, please know that you have a supportive group of readers on this website and that we would be interested in any enlightenment you might, ultimately, be able to provide. You have my deepest sympathy on the loss of your friend(s).

Be well,

Ron Migdal
Southern California Region Secretary
National Ski Patrol
theTower@SoCalNSP.org

[Linda]

Thank you for your sympathy. Its been really hard, not only to loss someone so young & wonderful, but to know that it may have (should have) been prevented.

In response to Paragon's post: I was referring to second 911, pertaining to your post on 3/17 where u said in the beginning "911 releases second tape".... just wasnt sure what you meant by that.

As for Jenn actually talking to the Onstar people, what I was refering to was the following:
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New Details Emerge In Fatal Assateague Crash



Shawn J. Soper, Staff Writer

OCEAN CITY (02/18/2005) - While investigators may never know exactly what happened on the beach at Assateague Island, nearly two weeks when an off-road vehicle overturned and ultimately claimed the lives of its two occupants, new details emerged this week providing a little more insight into the moments after the crash.

On Saturday, Feb. 5, around 9:30 p.m., the OnStar vehicle-equipped emergency services system received a call from a vehicle in distress on Assateague Island. Using the provided latitude and longitude coordinates provided by OnStar, National Parks Service rangers initiated a search of the island, particularly focusing on the area designated for off-road vehicle traffic, but the search proved fruitless.

Early the next day, surfers discovered an overturned Hummer and the body of its driver, Adam Starky, 25, of Cockeysville, near it on the beach in the surf in an area where off-road vehicles are not allowed. A little more than 24 hours later, a state park ranger found the body of Starky’s passenger, Jennifer Holly Ashe, 24, also of Cockeysville, about a half-mile south of the Ocean City Inlet and roughly five miles north of the Hummer accident scene.

The State Medical Examiners Office this week officially determined the cause of Starky’s death to be leg injuries complicated by hypothermia. The official autopsy results for Ashe are still pending as of yesterday.

Because of the terrain and the lack of roads on the island, OnStar used its high tech global positioning system (GPS) to approximate the location of the distressed vehicle and relayed the information to the appropriate emergency response agencies.

“Our folks took the call and because there are no roads there, we provided longitude and latitude coordinates to emergency responders,” said OnStar Vice President of Communications Terry Sullivan.

While the series of events leading up to the accident may never be known, new details emerged this week about the initial call to OnStar.

The OnStar call center, which provides personalized emergency roadside assistance to equipped vehicles 24 hours a day and 365 days a year, receives calls from vehicles in distress in several different ways. For example, a deployed airbag or sensors on the vehicle detecting a moderate or severe collision can automatically transmit an emergency service call to OnStar.

However, in the case of the Hummer accident on Assateague, the call came from a distressed individual and not from a deployed airbag or other source, according to Sullivan.

“We received an emergency button press from an individual in or near the vehicle,” he said. “An air bag deployment did not trigger this one. The call was clearly made from a woman in distress.”
----------------------------------

I did not copy the whole article, but just some so you could see what I was refering to. I dont remember where I read it, but somewhere there is a report that they could clearly hear a woman screamin....... to me that is warrant to continue or at least make the search a bit more serious!!

[PARAGON]

Ok, now I see what you were referring to. I think the article is talking about the 2 different tapes. First tape is from the Onstar button push in the vehicle to the Onstar operator and then Onstar operator contacted 911. The second tape would be the 911 person contacting the Rangers station to initiate the search. So it would be a call in/call out situation at the 911 office and not 2 calls TO 911.

[ROX]

http://www.co.worcester.md.us/EmergencyServices/911%20Center.htm
9-1-1 Center

Serving as the Public Safety Answering Point, or PSAP, for Worcester County, the office is responsible for answering all 9-1-1 calls for service placed in Worcester County. This includes Ocean City, a year-round resort that often has a summer time population exceeding 250,000 people. The 9-1-1 Center has 14 9-1-1 trunks to accomodate numerous calls for service at one time. Using five identical Plant Equipment, Inc. consoles, Communication Clerks instantly receive Automatic Number Identification (ANI) and Automatic Location Information (ALI) on their E-911 screens. If the call for service is for an agency we direct dispatch for, the clerk will take down all pertinent information for the call and give to the appropriate clerk for dispatch. If the call for service is for one of the local municipal police department's in the County (we have five), we will transfer that call to them on their dedicated emergency line. We can also transfer callers to our four neighboring county 9-1-1 Centers, Wicomico and Somerset in Maryland, Accomac in Virginia, and Sussex County in Delaware. Along with the Sheriff's Department, the Maryland State Police Barracks in Berlin has primary responsibility for law enforcement within the non-municipal portions of the County. We rotate calls for service with MSP.

Our primary back-up in case of a 9-1-1 failure is Ocean City. Ocean City has elected to direct dispatch their own police and fire units. When a call for service is received for Ocean City, the call is immediately transferred to dispatcher's at the Town of Ocean City Public Safety Center. There, dispatcher's have the same telephone equipment as we do, and instantaneously receive ANI / ALI on their screen's. Ocean City has the ability to dispatch all of our police and fire resources should that need arise, as we also have the ability to dispatch all of their's also.

We also transfer calls for service to the United States Coast Guard and the Maryland Poison Control Center. Utilizing a "Language Line", we are able to assist foreign speaking callers as well.

[KenP]

Linda, sorry for your loss. Please keep us updated with new information. As you can see we are all interested.

[ROX]

This is the whole article for you to read:

National Park Clarifies Details Of Crash Search



Shawn J. Soper, Staff Writer

ASSATEAGUE ISLAND NATIONAL SEASHORE (02/25/2005) - It has been three weeks since the tragic single-vehicle accident in the Assateague Island National Seashore that claimed the lives of its two young occupants and questions still remain unanswered, but parks officials are ready to put the incident behind them and get back to the business of running the facility.

On Saturday, Feb. 5, around 9:30 p.m., the OnStar vehicle-equipped emergency services system received a call from a frantic woman in or near a vehicle in distress from a location determined to be on Assateague Island. While OnStar could not make verbal contact with the victim, it did relay the incident’s estimated latitude and longitude coordinates to Worcester County Emergency Services, which in turn relayed the provided information to park rangers on Assateague.

A subsequent search of the 12-mile designated off-road vehicle area on the island proved fruitless and the search was ultimately called off. Early the next day, surfers discovered an overturned Hummer SUV and the body of its driver, Adam Starkey, 25, of Cockeysville, Md. near it in the surf in an area where off-road vehicles are not allowed.

An all-day-long, multi-agency search-and-rescue operation was initiated because of the uncertainties about the possibility of additional victims, but it was ultimately called off around dusk. A little more than 12 hours later, a state park ranger found the body of Starkey’s passenger, Jennifer Holly Ashe, 24, also of Cockeysville, about a half-mile south of the Ocean City Inlet and nearly five miles north of the Hummer accident scene.

The State Medical Examiners Office last week determined the cause of Starkey’s death to be leg injuries complicated by hypothermia, As of yesterday, the official cause of death for Ashe had still not been determined.

The medical examiner’s report on the official cause of Starkey’s death indicates the victim survived the initial crash and likely perished because of exposure to the elements, but it will never be known if he or his passenger could have been saved had the accident been discovered that first night.

Park rangers did utilize GPS equipment and maps to attempt to find the vehicle in distress using the latitude and longitude coordinates provided by OnStar, but were unable to locate the vehicle, according to Assateague Island National Seashore Chief of Education and Interpretation Robert Fudge.

“We use GPS equipment quite frequently for resource management and we had some information relative to that,” he said. “We were able to do some coordinate work that first evening, but we weren’t able to locate the vehicle in distress.”

Fudge said the information provided by OnStar through Worcester County Emergency Services did not fully explain the gravity of the situation.

“We had very limited information from the OnStar alert,” he said. “We knew that it was a distress call, but it was pretty unclear to the responding rangers that they were looking for an overturned vehicle in the surf.”

Fudge said because of the vast search area and the lack of established roads or other firm landmarks, it was difficult to locate the accident on the first night.

“OnStar gave the coordinates to the county’s emergency services, who in turn passed the information along to us,” he said. “Using the information, we made the best effort we could to pinpoint the vehicle in distress. There are no cross streets on the island and the coordinates we received were not exact to the actual location. We had a general idea but it was a pretty vast area to explore.”

After the park rangers’ initial search was called off late that first night, it wasn’t until the Starky’s body and the Hummer were found early the next morning that a comprehensive multi-agency search was conducted of the entire area. It remains to be seen if a similar search conducted the night before could have possibly found the crash site and the victims.

“The sun was down and it wasn’t until the next morning when the Hummer and the driver’s body were discovered that a multi-agency operation was launched including two helicopters from the DNR and the Coast Guard,” he said. “We can initiate a search-and-rescue operation, but there are a lot of mitigating factors.”

Fudge said the park service routinely reviews its emergency response procedures and policies and no changes were likely to be implemented as a result of the tragic accident.

“There are no plans for any changes in our policies or regulations,” he said. “The regulations we have in place work but the individual did not follow them. He was driving in an area not designated for off-road vehicles, and he was traveling at a high rate of speed, certainly in excess of the speed limit.”

That does not mean the parks service is ready to close the books on the investigation from its end.

“We have measures in place to prevent this type of tragedy from happening, but we always recommit ourselves to taking a closer look at things,” he said. “We feel pretty good about what we have in place, but we will continue to investigate things.”

[tower]

Now I'm Pissed!

First, thanks Roxie, for posting that article in it's entirety.

I know that Fudge(packer) is trying to keep his liability down for the impending lawsuit, but GEEZE!

First he says they “We use GPS equipment quite frequently for RESOURCE MANAGEMENT..."

that means making sure you dynamite the correct tree stump. But no use of GPS for searches? Who's driving this bus?

"...and we had some information relative to that... We were able to do some coordinate work that first evening, but we weren’t able to locate the vehicle in distress.”

They were able to do some coordinate work that evening? That's code for

'We were bumbling around with the GPS, but we couldn't figure out if we were at those coordinates or not, and didn't want to look stupid by calling in a higher authority.'

Looks pretty stupid now, doesn't it?

But you'll notice, he never says that anyone actually used the GPS coordinates and went to the site to search. He in fact says that there are no landmarks, so they couldn't.

NEWSFLASH!!! If you have GPS, you dont need landmarks, that's the benefit of the device.

He says “We knew that it was a distress call, but it was pretty unclear to the responding rangers that they were looking for an overturned vehicle in the surf.”

Holy ****! Does this mean if the woman next door is getting brutally beaten and raped, and I can't give a detailed description of her and her assailant, that the Sheriff's Department won't come?

“There are no plans for any changes in our policies or regulations,” he said. “The regulations we have in place work but the individual did not follow them. He was driving in an area not designated for off-road vehicles, and he was traveling at a high rate of speed, certainly in excess of the speed limit.”

I hope this idiot is lying, because without some serious retraining and policy changes, more people will die. There's nothing quite so arrogant as someone being at least partially responsible for two deaths, and then blaming the victims for being out of area or speeding. Does this make them somehow less deserving of lifesaving resources and the Ranger's best efforts? If so, perhaps instead of letting "out of bounds" skiers know the risks, I should just plug them with a 9mm slug.

Sorry, but this "doublespeak" really pisses me off. My politics may be a shade left of center, but I have a hard time abiding those who don't take responsibility for the mess they've created.

t~

[KIDZBOX]

So this does beg the question of emergency services responding to On Star. I hear all those ads on the radio where everything goes flawlessly. I would have hoped that if On Star contacts an emergency service then that service would do everything possible to locate the vehicle. Obviously from the conversation the On Star operator had with the emergency people it wasn't a crank call.

And why would the ranger need a landmark? Even if the GPS coords are off a little surely you'd see a H2 wouldn't you?

Question is tho is if the girl was found 5 miles away did she walk or was the H2 washed down the coastline for 5 miles or was she? I don't know the area.

If the vehicle was washed away maybe 5 miles does make a difference in a search?

[PARAGON]

This is all adding insult to injury. First is the now the comment the the coordinates WERE passed along to the Rangers, but a previous article that says it was information retained from the tapes says the Rangers DID NOT get the coordinates. Read the first post in this thread on page 1. It specifically says that FROM THE TAPES, the Rangers did not get the coordinates from 911. Now this fudge is saying they did.

This is ridiculous in a situation as serious as this. This cover-your-ass attitude is nothing but an insult in and of itself. But I am infuriated at the quote from Fudge at the end of the article. His position is to blame everything on the driver because he was somewhere he wasn't supposed to be and says he was speeding. This Clintonian double-speak and misdirection is unforgivable. It's sad that it all happened, it's sad that the system broke down, but to say that nothing needs to be changed because they did what they were supposed to and the driver was not following the rules is simply low life cover-your-ass attempts.

I would like to see this guy in front of a hearing on not only the policy but on his conduct since this has happened. I am truly angry about this insolence and just can't put my true thought down in to written words right now. I assure you I am finding someone to write to about this and I suggest others do the same.

[PARAGON]

Email address for Letter to the Editor of the paper that's been reporting:

editor@octnews.com

[Hummoron]

While I am sorry for the family's loss of a loved one, you all are bunch of aholes who believe everything is someone else's mistake.

Let's not forget that this jerk came down to the Shore in his brand new (still had dealer tags :-) "I'm a big man" hummer and acted like an ahole. He decided that he was better than everyone else and didn't need to obey the posted 4-wheeling section. I wonder if he even paid for a permit or decided he was "too good" for that too. Not only did he not respect park rules, he then decided that he was better than Mother Nature and could go screaming up the beach at whatever speed he wanted to do.

Let us imagine for a moment that while he was speeding up the beach in the NO vehicle section, he came over a hill and landed on an innocent couple laying out on the beach. They wouldn't even have had time to react before getting run over by his "I'm a big man with a little penis" hummer.

Fortunately, someone innocent did not die and instead he won the Darwin award. There is karma in the world.

I've read many of your posts. "Yeah, I would have been in the prohibited section too, that is where they should have looked for his sorry ass dead body." Maybe you should learn to respect both Park rules and Mother Nature before you too end up as worm food.

You have a responsibility as a human to respect nature and others. If you can't do that, good riddance. And stop blaming someone else for your own mistakes.

[ROX]

Originally posted by Hummoron:
While I am sorry for the family's loss of a loved one, you all are bunch of aholes who believe everything is someone else's mistake.

Let's not forget that this jerk came down to the Shore in his brand new (still had dealer tags :-) "I'm a big man" hummer and acted like an ahole. He decided that he was better than everyone else and didn't need to obey the posted 4-wheeling section. I wonder if he even paid for a permit or decided he was "too good" for that too. Not only did he not respect park rules, he then decided that he was better than Mother Nature and could go screaming up the beach at whatever speed he wanted to do.

Let us imagine for a moment that while he was speeding up the beach in the NO vehicle section, he came over a hill and landed on an innocent couple laying out on the beach. They wouldn't even have had time to react before getting run over by his "I'm a big man with a little penis" hummer.

Fortunately, someone innocent did not die and instead he won the Darwin award. There is karma in the world.

I've read many of your posts. "Yeah, I would have been in the prohibited section too, that is where they should have looked for his sorry ass dead body." Maybe you should learn to respect both Park rules and Mother Nature before you too end up as worm food.

You have a responsibility as a human to respect nature and others. If you can't do that, good riddance. And stop blaming someone else for your own mistakes.

I ought to find you and give you a good spanking. You're cold blooded and selfish. HummMoron pretty much sums it up for you, Pal. And I suggest the next time you're trying to prove something with your male/female girlfriend on the beach, you keep lookin over your shoulder, cuz it will be me! And I don't need a Hummer to kick your butt. And another thing, Take some F--ing grammar lessons. That's g r a m m a r, with two m's.

Go back to the fuh2 chat room, okay. People like you die shriveled up and lonely. Rest assured no one will be sorry to see you go.

YOU! OUT OF THE GENE-POOL!

[Hummoron]

Wow, H2 Rocks. Your attitude really typifies the egotistical hummer owner and why more of them need to flip upside down in the ocean.

This seagull food hummer (you just gotta know that those birds were picking at him overnight looking for a free meal) owner breaks the law, acts like an idiot and kills himself, but somehow it isn't his fault that he died. Let's blame someone else for his stupid actions. It certainly can't be his fault, he was invincible in his hummer. Let's blame everyone who didn't save him.

Funny, you call me selfish, but it was this prick that was abusing the beach for his own little pleasure and guzzling down gas causing prices to soar. But I guess he was special and deserved to be selfish...and dead.

And contrary to your last sentence, it is he who is out of the gene-pool, not me. Join your friend.

[4churchill]

Let's not let this guy get us all riled up. I would suggest we all just ignore him.

[KenP]

I don't see where anyone is blaming anyone else for this tragedy. What I do see are many owners wondering what mistakes were made and by whom. Specifically AFTER the accident. No one here is calling for offroading in nature preserves. Read about Tread Lightly and all the participant manufacturers and owners.

There are millions of GM built vehicles on the road with OnStar. Those customers pay for it and expect a certain level of service that can be called into question with this accident. That is what has been discussed here.

Now, until you come up with something better just carry your sorry ass back to your ****-hole Rt 13 roadside farm market and hawk some collards. Oh, don't forget to check for crabs. No, not the Blue, the one's your sister gave you. What a tool.

[ROX]

Originally posted by Hummoron:
Wow, H2 Rocks. Your attitude really typifies the egotistical hummer owner and why more of them need to flip upside down in the ocean.

This seagull food hummer (you just gotta know that those birds were picking at him overnight looking for a free meal) owner breaks the law, acts like an idiot and kills himself, but somehow it isn't his fault that he died. Let's blame someone else for his stupid actions. It certainly can't be his fault, he was invincible in his hummer. Let's blame everyone who didn't save him.

Funny, you call me selfish, but it was this prick that was abusing the beach for his own little pleasure and guzzling down gas causing prices to soar. But I guess he was special and deserved to be selfish...and dead.

And contrary to your last sentence, it is he who is out of the gene-pool, not me. Join your friend.

4churchill is right....but I just have a couple more things to say to this troll.

1. I didn't say one word on this thread until HummMoron showed up and insulted Linda and her friends. All that was posted were articles on the accident and some comments from other forum members.
2. I don't appreciate it when someone says "you all are bunch of aholes". (There's that p-sspoor grammar again, probably didn't make it past 3rd grade.)
3. I agree with this HummMoron! "You have a responsibility as a human to respect nature and others. If you can't do that, good riddance." Unfortunately, HummMoron doesn't practice what he preaches! He certainly hasn't shown any respect here, or to those people that died!
4. If he ever falls off his bike down a steep incline on the side of the road someday, even if he isn't riding in a bike lane,I hope someone in a HUMMER responds to his distress call, instead of letting him freeze to death and die of his injuries!
5. About the stupid lame-o remark about driving a gas-guzzler. SO WHAT? Why do you care? You don't need gas on your bicycle! What are you conserving for? HUH?
6. "it is he who is out of the gene-pool, not me. Join your friend." I'm really feelin the love now.
6. GOOD-BYE HUMMMORON!! Next time pick a name that doesn't fit you so perfectly!

4C: I'm done. Thanks.

[HUMMERDOGG]

Gas prices are soaring because we don't have enough refining capacity and the capacity that we do have is 30 year old technology...

[Hummoron]

This is from tower who is clearly blaming the park ranger (who he refers to as "Fudge(packer)" for the deaths:

"I hope this idiot is lying, because without some serious retraining and policy changes, more people will die. There's nothing quite so arrogant as someone being at least partially responsible for two deaths, and then blaming the victims for being out of area or speeding."

And then he adds:

"Sorry, but this "doublespeak" really pisses me off. My politics may be a shade left of center, but I have a hard time abiding those who don't take responsibility for the mess they've created."

Well, it was the driver who created the mess that got himself killed. Yes, it would have been great had everything (Onsat -> 911 -> Ranger) worked and help arrived for them. But when you do something foolish, you have to take responsibility for your own actions and not expect someone else to come and save you.

Had they been in the correct area, another 4-wheeler would have probably come across them. It is amazing just how much traffic that beach sees, even in the winter.

It was the attitude from tower (and a few others) that set me of. The park rangers' job is to manage the park, create maps of the environment, control how it changes, and keep others from destroying it. Responding to someone who is stuck in the sand is not their prime role.

[Klaus]

Park Rangers perform a wide variety of duties in managing parks, historical sites, and recreational areas. Many wear a prescribed uniform.

Duties
Park Rangers supervise, manage and perform work in the conservation and use of resources in national parks and other federally-managed areas. Park Rangers carry out various tasks associated with forest or structural fire control; protection of property; gathering and dissemination of natural, historical, or scientific information; development of interpretive material for the natural, historical, or cultural features of an era; demonstration of folk art and crafts; enforcement of laws and regulations; investigation of violations, complaints, trespass/encroachment, and accidents; search and rescue; and management of historical, cultural, and natural resources, such as wildlife, forests, lakeshores, seashores, historic buildings, battlefields, archaeological properties, and recreation areas. They also operate campgrounds, including such tasks as assigning sites, replenishing firewood, performing safety inspections, providing information to visitors, and leading guided tours. Differences in the exact nature of duties depend on the grade of position, the site's size and specific needs.

http://www.nps.gov/personnel/rangers.htm

[Linda]

Oh my God... still in shock at the careless and unthoughtful remarks of the wonderful person that calls himself "HumMORON" (name does seem to fit though)

First off just to clarify a few things for you about this as you call a "jerk, ahole and a big man with a little penis"...... YOU dont have a clue as to who Adam was - by the way he had a name!! Don't know where your getting your info from but Adam purchased his hummer at Christmas time of LAST year so he did'nt still have his dealer tags on. He got his dream vehicle after many years of hard work. He owned his on construction company that he started from scratch and was doing very, very well. He was hardly a selfish person, he gave and gave to people he knew and did'nt even know. That day that he went 4-wheeling with Jen, it was something she wanted to do for her birthday, so he took her. Yes, granted, he broke the law by going somewhere he shouldnt have.... but if I am hearing you correctly are you actually saying that Adam & Jenn BOTH deserved to die the way they did???? Do you have a heart? I am still just amazed that idiots like you even have the gull to respond to something in this manner.
KNOW your facts MORON --- oops I mean Hummoron before YOU go pointing your nasty/heartless finger!!!

Again, thank you to all those that have offered valuable info., along with your condolences, it means a lot.

4CHRCHILL: I agree with you about lets not let this guy get us riled up..... but Adam was my freind, and since he can't defend himself right now, I felt I had to.

[tower]

Dear Hummoron,

First, let me thank you for thinking enough of what I wrote to quote me. I am relatively new to this forum. To my knowledge, this is the first time that has happened.

Second, let me apologize for the "Fudge(packer)" and idiot comments. It was entirely inappropriate in a matter as serious as this. I was beside myself in learning how badly this incident was botched, but that is no excuse for name-calling.

I don’t know how experienced you are in “first hand Darwinism.” I don’t know how many dead bodies you have recovered rather than rescued. I don’t know if you have seen any of my posts, but I am an avid bicyclist, environmentalist, recycler, strict vegetarian and lover of natural wilderness and ski patrolman. I bought my H2 because it best serves me in getting to work to fulfill my rescue responsibilities. I know you don’t like our trucks, but if you or a loved one were in trouble, I don’t think you would give a second thought to how much fuel a rescue helicopter burns per minute. I could be wrong.

Klaus has elucidated the numerous responsibilities of the Ranger. Even if search and rescue weren’t within a ranger’s purview, I think every citizen has responsibility in doing whatever possible (within reason) to protect the life and limb of others.

You hypothetically assume that Adam was intentionally breaking park rules. You may be right, but I can just as easily hypothesize that he was out at night, focused on the woman he was with, and didn’t see the restriction signs. Perhaps the signs were poorly marked, poorly lit by a burnt out bulb or down entirely. Regardless, does this infraction obviate the responsibility of the Emergency Response System to perform to the standard of care mandated by their job description? Do you honestly believe that driving in a restricted area justifies leaving two people to die of hypothermia?

I don’t see how you can criticize Adam. According to your view, he has paid the ultimate price for his transgression. To that extent, he has taken responsibility for his actions. Now how about the rest of the players ponying up?

I won’t list all my titles, but I am involved in training other patrolman at some fairly high levels. A general rule of thumb for assessing rookies in my business at the most basic level is “would you want them working on your loved one?” I would like you to honestly ask yourself this question regarding this incident. If your loved one, whether breaking a rule or innocently wandering off, were in these dire straits, would you be satisfied that the system functioned properly?

I ask you to look at this entire incident without bias. Your preconceived notions about Adam’s attitude are pure conjecture. Comments regarding seagull food and gene pool, while clearly chosen for their inflammatory quality, are disrespectful of the dead and hurtful to their friends and family. I hope we can refrain from any more of that.

Lastly, my love for the great outdoors and environment notwithstanding, I feel compelled to say that in the short time that I have been a member of this forum, I have found many, many bright, considerate people. I am proud to consider myself as one of them.

t~

[H2Finally]

t, OUTSTANDING! Your reply is concise, credible, and (rare in this forum) mature. Drinks on me, buddy!

Hummoron, it is one thing to trash Hummers (it's only a vehicle), but another entirely to speak so lightly about the death of human beings. With so little respect of life, we are not interested in your opinions; but the FBI might.

[Linda]

t~

THANK YOU, what a wonderful response.

-Linda

[Hummoron]

My words were a bit harsh, but it was directed at those of you who want to blame this accident on someone other than the driver.

I first started reading about the accident because I wanted to know what happened. Then I come to this site and read from people like Queen Sheba:

"I am sorry, but why would they look in a place where they were permitted? Come ON! Human nature says that when we have a vehicle that makes us feel safe, we are going to test the limits anyway? They should have been looking in the place where they shouldn't have been. Maybe they would have found them sooner. That must have been a horrible way to die"

She clearly blames someone else for the deaths other than the driver of the vehicle and admits that she is just as stupid. Then I read from tower and others who are calling the Rangers incompetent and bumbling with GPS. While the Park Service does use GPS for a number of things, I have no idea if every vehicle and person is equipped with a hand held GPS and doubt if they are. Most of what I've seen them use are survey grade backpack systems and I'm sure those are only used by the 8-5 work force, not the patrolmen looking for someone in distress. A lesson to be learned, but not one to be punished for.

Hey, that's great tower that you have your hummer for doing search and rescue, but I'm sure most of you don't. And just because you are out driving around in your hummer, doesn't mean you are on a search and rescue effort. He wasn't, he was out for pleasure. As for me worrying about the cost of fuel for a rescue helicopter, I also don't see any helicopter pilots riding around like a wild yahoo just to impress his girlfriend (but no doubt someone has done just that) nor do they use it to fly down the 7-11 to get a six-pack of beer.

When he got his over the sand permit, he would have been given a map and guidelines for that activity. It was his responsibility to become familiar with those rules - no different than doing any other outdoor activity, be it hiking, boating, etc. And no matter what his distractions were, it was still his responsibility to drive carefully. He failed. Yes, it was a harsh lesson, but one none the less and self-inflicted. Sober up and quit blaming others.

Personally I think his estate should be billed for the search and bulldozer used to pull his hummer out of the ocean. I believe it is actually pretty standard that the people getting rescued pay for the rescue. In Greenland, they even have set fees for rescuing people off of the ice.

As for you people wondering how Jen wound up 5 miles from the crash site, I think it is pretty clear what happened.

They drove up the north end of Assateague, turned around and were headed back south. He had the ocean on his left, driving on the waters edge. He was going to fast and hit a hill that rolled the hummer over. Neither were probably wearing their seatbelts, but using their hands pressed against the roof to keep from bouncing as much. They still bounced quite a bit and were enjoying the excitement and thrill of the "roller-coaster" ride. Right up until he said "Hey, watch this."

He was probably tossed from the vehicle when it rolled over and more seriously hurt. She bounced around inside. After coming to a stop, she pressed the OnStar button and then got out to rescue Adam. At best, he was probably only semi-conscious. She then realized the severity of her situation and started screaming. That is what the OnStar person heard. The waves crashing around Jen kept her from hearing the little voice inside the hummer. She then pulled Adam out of the surf and onto the safety of the beach. Before leaving, she kissed him and promised to get help and return. She then turned north toward the lit up sky and walked along the water's edge where the sand was packed.

Normally her choice would have been good. Lights would have meant people and safety. After several hours cold and wet, she reached the north end of Assateague and saw the safety of Ocean City. However, the inlet and bay would make it impossible to cross the otherwise short distance. If it wasn't for the roar of the ocean, she could have easily hollered for help.

As it sunk in that she had just wasted her entire time going in the wrong direction, she turned back south. Cold, tired, scared, and emotionally drained, she eventually collapsed on the packed sand and succumbed to the cold. The tide came up and pulled her body back into the surf.

Truly a tragedy, but one brought on by reckless driving and ignoring the rules, not by the Park Rangers. Yes, it would have been great if help had made it to them and been rescued. It didn't. They got where they were by their own devices, not by someone elses. They both paid the price for his mistakes.

Get over it.

[h2co-pilot]

Just like you had questions that led you here, so did Linda and the people on this forum.

QUESTIONS, about a tragic situation that needs an investigation. You are making it way worse and complicated with your insensitivity and vulgarness.

And now, you sick (have a lot of time on your hands) prick, have managed to come up with a detailed story! Shame on you!...enough is enough.

[Hummoron]

In my postings, I attacked the arrogant hummorons (yes, that name was what I think of you) who believe that you are somehow better than everyone else. After all, you drive your big vehicles so that when you run into someone else, they'll get killed, not you. Despite what other strengths Adam might have had, he also demonstrated the attitude of being above others and allowed to trespass and drive above the posted speed limit (I at least hope he was speeding, or his hummer was less stable than the many 4 wheel drive pickups that drive all over the beach).

In return, you attacked bicyclists and people making a living selling food. Wow, that was really mature. Attack someone who has nothing to do with me or my impression of you. Guess you feel real big now.

Certainly not every hummer owner fits the stereotype, but enough of you do that is the reason the stereotype exists.

[Klaus]

Originally posted by Hummoron:
Truly a tragedy, but one brought on by reckless driving and ignoring the rules, not by the Park Rangers. Yes, it would have been great if help had made it to them and been rescued. It didn't. They got where they were by their own devices, not by someone elses. They both paid the price for his mistakes.

Get over it.

I can see it now... One day Hummoron will suffer a heart attack. Someone calls 911, but they will give up before they get to him. Someone will then say:

"Yes, it would have been great if help had made it to him and he had been rescued. It didn't. He got where he was by eating greasy burgers. He paid the price for his mistake. Get over it."

[h2co-pilot]

Originally posted by Hummoron:
In return, you attacked bicyclists and people making a living selling food. Wow, that was really mature. Attack someone who has nothing to do with me or my impression of you. Guess you feel real big now.



I believe someone was referring to the venereal disease that you contracted from your sister. And I don't own or drive a Hummer and... are you a bike licker?

[H2Finally]

Hummoron, blaming is human nature. For instance, you are blaming us, for blaming those incompetent rescuers.

Pushing the limit is also human nature. For example, hundreds of people die each day driving pass the speed limit.

These were not the issue. The issue is your incredibly insensitive, immature, irresponsible attitude. Freedom of speech does not excuse you from being an *******.

*******.

[Linda]

This information that I have just recently found out is for those that have asked to be updated, and are truely concerned (not for your harsh words or critism HUMMORON, heard more than I care to from you - u seem to THINK u know so much about what happened yet you havent a clue.... your so far off base)

After speaking with the attorney that is representing the deceased family's of Adam & Jenn (by the way Adam & Jenn were JUST long time freinds, Adam was engaged to someone else and Jenn had a long time boyfreind) I discovered that Adam was NOT speeding - infact at the time he hit the drop off, he was going a mere 15 miles per hour! As for the drinking that so many people think was a factor, the autopsy reports on both Adam & Jenn showed absoultely NO traces of alchol.

Found out something else interesting... the reason the Rangers called of the search that night, was because even though they got the call from Onstar... they discovered a vehicle that was stuck after that, and helped them and decided IT was that vehicle in distress --- even though mind you, it had NO onstar!!!! Another bit of news I found interesting was not only the onstar call placed by Jenn pressing the button, but ALSO by the airbags being deployed!!!! Now would'nt you think that they (meaning Onstar & the Rangers) might stop to think that maybe, just maybe this was a bit more serious than simply being stuck in the sand????

-Linda

[PARAGON]

<Table>
<P class=MsoPlainText align=center><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=5>Two
Bodies Recovered After Assateague Accident </FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText></P>


Shawn J. Soper, Staff Writer</P>


ASSATEAGUE ISLAND (02/11/2005)
- Questions remain this week after an off-road joy ride on Assateague Island
last Saturday night turned tragic when a SUV overturned in the surf in the
National Park and ultimately claimed the lives of its two young occupants.</P>
<P class=MsoBodyText>Around daybreak last Sunday morning, surfers on Assateague
found the body of Adam Starky, 25, of Cockeysville, Md. just a few feet from his
severely damaged 2004 Hummer, which was lying on its side half-submerged in the
surf. This discovery answered at least some of the questions from a bizarre
sequence of events from the night before, but did not tell the whole story.</P>
<P class=MsoBodyText>A little more than 24 hours later, a State Park Ranger
found the body of Starky’s passenger, Jennifer Holly Ashe, 24, also of
Cockeysville on Assateague about one-half mile south of the Ocean City Inlet and
roughly five miles north of the Hummer accident scene. Investigators are still
trying to piece together the details of the accident and determine how and why
Ashe’s body was discovered several miles away from the accident scene.</P>
<P class=MsoBodyText>Investigators believe the strength of the ocean currents at
high tide in the area of the crash scene could have moved Ashe’s body out to sea
and up the beach toward Ocean City where it was found on Monday morning. </P>
<P class=MsoBodyText>“The ocean currents are extremely strong in that area and
could have done any number of things to the victims,” said Assateague National
Parks Chief of Visitor Services Robert Fudge. “While we may never be certain,
it’s highly possible the woman victim’s body could have been carried out to sea
by those strong currents.”</P>
<P class=MsoBodyText>The vehicle was found east of the dune line in the path of
the oncoming tide with its roof partially caved in and the doors buckling
outward. Throughout the night Saturday, it was in the path of the changing tide
and was likely completely submerged at high tide. </P>
<P class=MsoBodyText>“The Hummer was found partially submerged and full of water
and sand when it was discovered early Sunday morning, but it would have been
significantly submerged during high tide,” said Fudge.</P>
<P class=MsoBodyText>According to Fudge, the wide, flat stretch of beach is
often completely underwater at high tide, which is why searchers may not have
been able to locate the distressed vehicle the night before, although the
preliminary search focused on the designated off-road vehicle zone and not the
area where the Hummer was ultimately found. “It would have been detectable, but
it was very likely under a lot of water,” said Fudge.</P>
<P class=MsoBodyText>Around 9:30 p.m. on Saturday, the vehicle-equipped OnStar
system received a distress call from a vehicle determined to be Starky’s 2004
Hummer and the satellite locating system loosely located the vehicle somewhere
on Assateague Island. OnStar contacted the Worcester County Sheriff’s
Department, which, in turn, notified the National Parks Service Rangers about a
potential vehicle in distress.</P>
<P class=MsoBodyText>Investigators are still trying to determine if either of
the victims placed the emergency call to OnStar. The motorist emergency service
system is automatically notified if an air bag is deployed on an equipped
vehicle, but that service is not typically available on recreational
vehicles.</P>
<P class=MsoBodyText>Park Rangers immediately initiated a ground search of the
island’s entire 12-mile designated off-road vehicle zone. However, they were
unable to locate the source of the distress call reported by OnStar, and the
search was ultimately called off after several hours. Surfers found the wrecked
Hummer and the body of its driver early the next morning about two miles north
of the Sinepuxent Ranger Station and the entrance to the designated off-road
vehicle zone.</P>
<P class=MsoBodyText>A multi-agency search and rescue operation was initiated
during which National Parks Service personnel were joined by the U.S. Coast
Guard, the County Sheriff’s Department, Maryland Department of Natural Resources
Police, State Park Rangers, Maryland State Police and the Berlin Volunteer Fire
Department.</P>
<P class=MsoBodyText>A Coast Guard rescue boat from Ocean City, a Coast Guard
helicopter from Atlantic City and a Maryland Natural Resources Police helicopter
searched the waters near the accident scene throughout the day on Sunday because
it was uncertain at the time how many victims were involved. Coast Guard
Lieutenant Junior Grade Christopher Lucero said that due to the “level of
uncertainty,” mainly from the OnStar call, the Coast Guard and other agencies
carried out a long search before calling it off late Sunday evening.</P>
<P class=MsoBodyText>As each hour passed, the possibility of finding any
survivors in the frigid waters became more and more remote. Lucero said with
water temperatures in the low 40s, any victims would likely have about an hour
and a half to survive. </P>
<P class=MsoBodyText>“We carried out an aggressive search of the area for
survivors, but unfortunately we found no one at the time,” he said.</P>
<P class=MsoBodyText>As of late Sunday afternoon, investigators had a wrecked
vehicle and a male victim, but they were still uncertain if any other victims
were involved. However, a missing persons report filed in Baltimore County late
Sunday night for a woman believed to be a friend of Starky’s who had accompanied
him on a trip to the Eastern Shore to go four-wheeling. The grim discovery of
Ashe’s body early the next day confirmed her family’s worst fears.</P></Table>

[PARAGON]

<Table>
<TR>
<TD>


<FONT size=3>Transcript of 911 call</FONT>

<HR align=center noShade SIZE=1>
</A>
</TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD>911: Emergency Services?


OnStar: Hi. This is Walter calling from OnStar.


911: OK


OnStar: I have an emergency key press coming in from a vehicle. Right now I
have them located, it looks like they’re on the… is it Assateague or Assateague
Island National Seashore?


911: OK


OnStar: However, I am not finding the street names of where they are.


911: OK


OnStar: Is this your jurisdiction, ma’am?


911: Yes, it is. What’s the phone number you’re calling from?


OnStar: My number is (866) 866 again -5006. …Let me give you the case number.
It’s 614563425.


911: OK and your name and operator number?


OnStar: My name is Walter. I do have a connection with the vehicle, however,
I’m not getting a response. It’s fading in and out, and I do hear screaming
inside the vehicle, but I don’t know what the actual emergency is.


911: OK


OnStar: And I’m trying to give you a better street, or at least a crossing
street but I don’t have anything –


911: That’s fine. That should be enough. Did they give you coordinates or
anything like that?


OnStar: Let me see…


911: Cause there’s not really many streets back there, it’s just an island.


OnStar: OK, now I don’t know how good this is. Right now I’m showing that the
latitude is 38.21


911: 38.21


OnStar: and the long is -75.14.



911: OK, we’ll see what we can do with that.


OnStar: Do you need [unintelligible] with the vehicle or would that be enough
for you?


911: That should be enough. What’s the phone number to the vehicle?


OnStar: The vehicle phone number I have is (443) 845-0323


911: 0323


OnStar: and it’s a 2004 Hummer H2.


911: 2004 Hummer. OK, what color?


OnStar: The color is gray.


911: OK. Alright and all it says is it’s an emergency key press, which is
just that one button on there? They just pressed it?


OnStar: Yes.


911: OK. Alright, we’ll go have somebody stop out there. If you do hear
anything else or if you could get a hold of somebody in the vehicle, if you
don’t mind just giving us a call back?


OnStar: Yes, ma’am.


911: Oh, what’s the owner’s name?


OnStar: I’m showing an Adam Starkey.


911: Adam Starkey—that name sounds familiar. OK and I’m operator 76.


OnStar: 76?


911: Yup.


OnStar: Thank you, ma’am.


911: Uh huh. Bye bye. </P></TD></TR></Table>

[Dug]

Wow , just got to read this thread. Hummermoron did you always suck cock or were you born that way. Its douche bags like you that give us a bad name.

[PARAGON]

<table>


<FONT face="GM Serif" size=2>Every day, an estimated 200,000 calls are made
to 911 using wireless technology, according to the Cellular Telecommunications
& Internet Association (CTIA). OnStar responds to about 13,000 emergency
calls each month. OnStar continues to work closely with emergency personnel to
report thousands of motor vehicle emergencies every year. Between November
2004 and January 2005, OnStar responded to a monthly average of:</FONT></P>


</P>
<UL type=disc>
<LI><FONT face="GM Serif" size=2>900 airbag notifications</FONT>
<LI><FONT face="GM Serif" size=2>400 stolen vehicle location requests</FONT>
<LI><FONT face="GM Serif" size=2>20,000 roadside assistance</FONT></LI>[/list]</table>

[PARAGON]

<Table>http://data2.itc.nps.gov/morningreport/images/mrheader.gif </Table>
<Table>
http://data2.itc.nps.gov/morningreport/images/mornrept.gif </Table>

Monday, February 14, 2005



INCIDENTS

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Assateague Island National Seashore (VA)
Follow-up on Fatal Humvee Accident


On the night of Saturday, February 5th, a Humvee accident on the park’s beach led to the deaths of two park visitors, subsequently identified as Adam Starkey, 25, of Cockeysville, Maryland, and Jennifer Ashe, 24, of Baltimore City, Maryland. Witnesses on the beach said that they saw a Hummer traveling at a high rate of speed down the beach earlier that evening. Surfers found the 2004 H2 Hummer in the surf more than a mile-and-a-half within the posted closed area the following morning. The man’s body was found not far from the vehicle; the woman’s body was found on Monday morning by a Maryland state park ranger about five-and-a-half miles north of the wreck site. A critical incident stress management team arrived in the park on Tuesday to meet with park staff. NPS special agent Tim Alley has been assigned to the investigation.
[Submitted by Mike Anderson, Chief Ranger]

[HUMMERDOGG]

Originally posted by Hummoron:
In my postings, I attacked the arrogant hummorons (yes, that name was what I think of you) who believe that you are somehow better than everyone else. After all, you drive your big vehicles so that when you run into someone else, they'll get killed, not you.

Certainly not every hummer owner fits the stereotype, but enough of you do that is the reason the stereotype exists.

I guess I'm a little confused by the "sterotype" that has suddenly been formed in the past two years regarding owners of H2's. For the most part, I must pass between 10 and 15 H2's a day driving in Northwest Houston. I would say at least 2/3's of the drivers are females between the ages of say 18 and say 48. They definitely appear to be people who would normally be driving a Tahoe but, given the chance to own something different, chose an H2.

Now granted, those numbers aren't substantiated with the membership that you will see here. For the most part, the group here is mostly male between the ages of 20 and 50. Now, I can tell you, most of the group from what I can tell are professionals who like the look of the H2 and don't mind the gas mileage. The H2 was something different to do, kind of like the Corvette or Viper. Now, speaking from experience, I historically have been a crewcab pickup guy but decided to give the H2 a shot after seeing it and test driving it. I do like it but intend on eventually getting an older model H1 and another crewcab diesel pickup.

I only say all of this because I don't believe people purchase H2's because they think they are better than everybody else. I mean, if that was the case, why stop there. Just go ahead and get a Range Rover, Porsche Cayenne, Mercedes G-wagon, lexus Lx 450(?) or BMW X-5 and truly demonstrate that you have $60K to $90K to spend on a car... When all factored in, the Hummer H2 is a very nicely priced vehicle competitive in price to Tahoe Z-71, Yukon Denali and Cadillac Escalade. (With discounts and rebates you can pick one up for around $600/month which in today's world isn't too bad a deal.) You can't sit there and tell me that everytime you see someone driving a Tahoe, Denali or Escalade, you think the same thing-******* with an attitude...

Now, with regards to "drive your big vehicles so that when you run into someone else, they'll get killed, not you." You really don't believe this, do you? If so, I've got a better forum for you to go to http://www.thedieselstop.com/

There you will find close to 51,000 owners of Ford Diesel Crewcab Longbed Trucks, Duallys, and even the dreaded... "Excursion"... The Ultimate Gas Guzzler and Road Hog. I'm sure the members over there would welcome you with open arms... Especially when you start complaining about how big the trucks are that they drive...

Anyways, I really think when you look at the number of Ford, Chevy, and Dodge Truck Owners in the marketplace, they should be your target audience if your true issue is the size of the vehicle. Crewcab Longbed Trucks make the H2 look small and with their heavier diesel engine make more of an impact in a crash...

[dochummer]

Linda, my condolances to you for the loss of your friends.

[ROX]

tower: You da man! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I da PMS. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Thanks for straightening that out.
Roxie http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[tower]

Aw, shucks, Roxie.

[Hummoron]

Ok, my story about what I thought happened is completely wrong by what is getting reported in the paper now. Most of my key points were what had been reported by the paper and I assumed they were correct.

The beach does not usually have terrain violent enough to roll a pickup (with the exception of the dunes which are off limits because of the fragile vegetation) at normal speeds. The maximum allowed speed is 25 mph and must be reduced to 15 when within 100 feet of another vehicle. Considering the number of people who drive their pickups on the beach without rolling them, it just seemed unlikely that he would roll (what I would assume is) a much more stable hummer going at normal (up to to 35) speeds. I couldn't find anything online that mentioned how often vehicles overturn while on the beach. I'm sure the rangers have some stories to tell, but I didn't find them.

I also assumed that they both made it out of the surf, which would have gave some credence to your hope that the rangers could have saved them. Assuming they rolled at the waters edge and they were unable to get out of the surf and onto the sand, I would also assume that it is pretty unlikely that the rangers could have gotten there on time even if they had gone straight to them. Although they did perish from hypothermia and not drowning according to the current reports) so maybe there was hope.

Now, the map that someone posted showed the gps point as being quite a ways out in the water. I initially assumed that both the coordinates and the map were slightly off and that the accident occurred on the waters edge. However, if they were driving in the ocean (albeit a shallow section), that would also account for the sudden terrain change that could roll a hummer without Adam being able to see and avoid it. After the accident, one or both climbed on top of the vehicle to get out of the water and that is when OnStar got the call. And that is where they stayed waiting for help until the tide rose.

But I just can't imagine anyone being so stupid as to drive their hummer in salt water (which is going to get into every crevice to rot out the metal) and to drive so far out into the OCEAN with it as to be afraid or unable to get back to shore on their own. Just boggles my sick mind. I am honestly open to someone giving a reasonable explanation of how this accident could have occurred without Adam being overly reckless and foolhardy.

Maybe there was a gut cut by a recent storm that rolled the hummer at the waters edge...but they still should have been able to get to the beach and out of the surf.

Regardless of the cause, no one has suggested that someone else did anything that caused the accident. Assuming they weren't attacked by a herd of killer ponies that caused the hummer to roll, the driver of the hummer is the only person responsible for their deaths. Everyone here wants to treat Adam as some kind of saint after his actions caused his own death, but want to belittle the rangers who responded and tried to rescue them (and they didn't have my attitude about humorons).

Despite what others have claimed, the park rangers duties are:


http://www.nps.gov/asis/orv.htm

National Park Service staff can:
•Assist with removing sand from around the tires
•Deflate tires
•Use traction devices such as boards
•Make a phone call on your behalf to friends/family
•Provide information regarding local towing services

National Park Service staff cannot:
•Winch or pull the vehicles out
•Recommend a towing company

Yes, a distress call in the winter is much more important than someone just stuck in the sand in the middle of summer, but overall you are on your own to get yourself out of any jam you get into. Many 4-wheelers have demonstrated that when driving with some sense, the beach can be a fun and safe activity. Act stupid and all bets are off.

[dochummer]

I don't think that anyone here is questioning who is at fault for this horrible accident. I think it's fair to say that we all agree that it most likely was driver error and not a herd of killer ponies. Most of us are only re-acting to the apparent lack of concern by the local authorities in the area. I, for one, upon hearing of this tragic event hope that I never have a family member run into trouble in the area, because I am not confident in the abilities of the local authorities.

On a side note, if this event involved any other vehicle other than an H2 or H1, I believe the members of this forum would have reacted the same way. I'm sure you would have reacted differently if it were a jeep, toyota or whatever you drive. Not all vehicles are immune to accidents or driver error.

[tower]

Dear Hummoron,

Your most recent post is the most humble I have seen from you, and I am grateful for that. You seem, though to a lesser extent, to still want to blame Adam. I still hold that the rangers were delinquent in their duties. I suppose we must simply agree to disagree on this. I greatly appreciate your having the courage to openly recant your original position, at least partially. Thank you for participating in our forum. As the facts of the incident unfold, I suspect there will be enough lessons for us all.

Be safe,
t~

[PARAGON]

So, which one of your schizoid personalities wrote this last tidbit? http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

[ROX]

Originally posted by PARAGON:
So, which one of your schizoid personalities wrote this last tidbit? http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

HumMoron: Welcome back. Is that you?

[Klaus]

Originally posted by Hummoron:
Despite what others have claimed, the park rangers duties are:

http://www.nps.gov/asis/orv.htm

National Park Service staff can:
•Assist with removing sand from around the tires
•Deflate tires
•Use traction devices such as boards
•Make a phone call on your behalf to friends/family
•Provide information regarding local towing services

National Park Service staff cannot:
•Winch or pull the vehicles out
•Recommend a towing company



Look, moron - Read this and let it sink in your thick skull:

Duties
Park Rangers supervise, manage and perform work in the conservation and use of resources in national parks and other federally-managed areas. Park Rangers carry out various tasks associated with forest or structural fire control; protection of property; gathering and dissemination of natural, historical, or scientific information; development of interpretive material for the natural, historical, or cultural features of an era; demonstration of folk art and crafts; enforcement of laws and regulations; investigation of violations, complaints, trespass/encroachment, and accidents; search and rescue; and management of historical, cultural, and natural resources, such as wildlife, forests, lakeshores, seashores, historic buildings, battlefields, archaeological properties, and recreation areas. They also operate campgrounds, including such tasks as assigning sites, replenishing firewood, performing safety inspections, providing information to visitors, and leading guided tours. Differences in the exact nature of duties depend on the grade of position, the site's size and specific needs.

http://www.nps.gov/personnel/rangers.htm

Now you can bet your ass that these guys get paid to perform the above duties. No one forced them to take this job. If it's too much trouble to perform ALL of the duties required of Rangers, then they should turn in their badge and quit.

No one is saying that the Rangers are responsible for the accident. Adam was driving. HOWEVER - Had the Rangers done their job in a professional manner, one or both of the victims would probably be alive today.


Originally posted by Hummoron:
...overall you are on your own to get yourself out of any jam you get into.

Considering the incompetent search and rescue those Rangers provided - I'll have agree with you on this point.

[Hummoron]

Tower,

My problem with Hummer and SUV owners is that their selection of a vehicle ultimately effects me. While some may actually need their vehicle, most do not. At least the roads around here don't require the use of a large vehicle to pickup a bag of groceries. Their fuel guzzling vehicles might not be the primary cause of pump prices rising, but it certainly isn't helping. If more people chose fuel efficient vehicles, it might actually help. It would certainly get the car makers more interested in looking for ways to make safe yet efficient cars. And how many of you haven't silently said to yourself at some point "yeah, he'll move. I'm bigger than him"? How many people driving a BMW M5 has said the same? And I bet it hauls grociers just as well on less fuel.

Adam had what, about 15 miles of beach just for off-road vehicle use? But no, he decided to ruin the outdoors for anyone deciding to enjoy a nice walk along the beach in the pedestrian use only area. Arrogant prick. Or maybe he just couldn't be bothered to learn the rules? Maybe he missed the crossover, but then what was wrong with his GPS? I mean, he's got GPS, what does he need landmarks for? He had no excuse for being in the wrong area.

The next time there is a distress call, I hope the rangers search the prohibited use area first because "when we have a vehicle that makes us feel safe, we are going to test the limits anyway? They should have been looking in the place where they shouldn't have been." - Queen Sheba. But I guess you'd all cry about that too.

Maybe we just need to add a $100K tax to all hummer and suv sales so that the park service can have better and more rangers on duty in the middle of winter on a Saturday evening just in case one of you get in trouble. Cheers.

[HUMMERDOGG]

Hummoron-

Ultimately, what is it you want??? You complain about the type of person who drives an H2. Which is extremely debateable and which I have defended in previous posts since most H2's I see are driven by teenage to middle age women. Now, you complain how the vehicle we drive affects you? You have mentioned how it's gas guzzling and it's unsafe in an accident. Unfortunately, you aren't the first troll to come in here and start berating the choice of vehicle we drive and complain how the increase in the size of the ozone hole, increase in the price of gas, car versus suv accident survival rate, troop presence in Iraq, <insert another dozen or so bs reasons why we shouldn't drive our H2>, has to be a direct result of the emergence of the H2. Give it a break.

The truth of the matter is this- all over the world, economies are growing- specifically for my example India and China, at rates we haven't seen before and that no one could have anticpated three years ago. Therefore, the demand for energy, agricultural products, steel, copper, etc... has risen rapidly in the past two years to account for the rapid rise in demand. This increase in global demand for crude oil, coupled with concerns regarding supply disruptions (keep in mind that Nigeria, Russia, Venezuela, Iraq, etc... aren't the most stable places yet make up a relatively large amount of the daily crude oil production), a weak dollar, along with highly leveraged/well financed/bullish speculating hedge funds have caused this runup. However, keep in mind, as recently as January 05 we were at $42, Sept 03 we were at $26, and Sept 01 we were at $18. Crude prices will continue to erode over the long haul and I truly believe we will see relief at the pump as a result of it. However, it won't happen overnite and it definitely wouldn't just happen overnite if every H2 was taken off the road...

Keep in mind, it's all about supply and demand. Do you think we can keep building the way we are here in the US- homes, apartments, strip centers, etc... and not think at some point we might not have enough electric generation built to supply all the demand growth that is going on. Trust me brother, California will happen all over again. Maybe not in California next but maybe Florida or New York. When it happens, are you going to go bitch to every person who bought a house in that new 5,000 house development across the street. Who, because they bought a home there, are now using the same electricity that you were using before. And since the utility wasn't able to get a new power plant online in time, there isn't enough electricity to go around and you both are now faced with rolling brownouts??? It's inevitable and called progress. As we build more ****, we need more natural gas, heating oil, electricity, water, land fills, highway infrastructure, schools, etc... to keep up with it all. And demand and supply don't hold hands and grow at the same exact convenient pace. Demand typically outstrips supply and then you have high prices... and then everyone comes in to capitalize on the high prices and builds all this supply and then prices fall... Old Supply gets taken down since it's no longer profitable, etc.. then the whole cycle starts all over again... It's the nature of the beast.

Now, I've told you already why the price at the pump you are currently paying is so high. Now that you are armed with that information, go bitch to the big oil companies and tell them you want more refineries built in the US so that US refining capacity can keep up with demand.

With regard to demand, I'd like to hear your opinion on what is fuel efficient. Would you talk **** if I had a diesel H2 and ran it on B100 biodiesel? It be a totally renewable fuel with no impact to the current demand for fossil fuels and no impact to the enviroment.

No, you'd only just go on to bitch about how the thing is dangerous in a wreck, when in all reality, the H2 is no more dangerous than any of those full size pickups that are out on the road... ****, here in Texas, every other Ford/Dodge/Chevy Pickup has one of those Cattle Guard Bumpers. Tell me that thing wouldn't tear up a lot more **** than my H2 if I hit you...

And for your benefit since you brought it up, the top of the line x5 costs at least $20K more than the top of the line H2. X5 drivers aren't saying under their breath-"he'll move, I'm bigger than him"... naw, they are just saying-"I'm richer and better than you so you should move for me..."

[DRTYFN]

Originally posted by Hummoron:
Tower,

My problem with... <span class="ev_code_RED">BLAH-****ING-BLAH</span>
...get in trouble. Cheers.

You whining bitch. Do you ever shut your mouth(when you're not at "work")?

Jesus christo!!! The poor nitwit pulled a Darwinistic move and paid the price. Let it rest.

You don't like the Hummer why? Because some one else has given you an easily recognizable target to focus your limited brain power on and now your concentrating for all your worth on that one thought.

I ran into two of your dip**** brethren today(2 in 1 day is a real bonus). One malcontent little bitch pull her bandana over her face so she could hide her nasty grill before flipping me off. When I circled back around to ask her why, her answer was "I don't like what you drive". I calmly asked her why(while imagining pushing her into traffic) she didn't like what I was driving. The glazed over look I got back confirmed my suspicions- She hadn't been programmed with any further thoughts on the issue. I offered to walk her through the parking lot next to us and help educate her on all of the other vehicles she was missing out on hating, but she pushed her ****ty little bike away while glaring straight ahead, pissed off that she ran into someone that wasn't just going to take her gesture and drive off.
The next brain dead, mid 20's, hippie puke was in a rust bucket, early '70s light blue Volvo wagon that was sitting idling at a red light and spewing smoke several shades darker than its 30 year old paint. I was making a right turn onto the street he had just driven down and he decided he was going to make his statement by clearly & angrily mouthing "**** you" directly at me. Since I knew no one was directly behind me I slammed on the brakes. He suddenly looked like a scared little kid that didn't want to look sideways for fear that the Boogey Man was coming to get him. My window was down and so was his, so I yelled to him(and I know he heard me because he started to shake like a little bitch) to ask why he thought that was something he could mouth to me. Did he give any answer? Noooo. I then tore him a new portal for his ****ting pleasure for being a coward(ok, I think I called him a "little hippie bitch pussy".I'm not exactly sure what I called him because I went into a name calling trance.) He just sat there and stared straight ahead like Death was coming to get him and if he didn't look it might pass him by. The bus driver directly behind him had his window open and he started to laugh at him for getting caught and receiving an ass-chewing for it.

The point of my little stories is that I'd put money on you being the same kind of no-load carrying malcontent, have-not, POS as those two were today. Mouth off all you can on the Internet or someplace where you think someone won't confront you for your cowardly actions or words, but in person you'd dribble piss down your leg like a scared little girl.

You made your opinion clear on the accident, but don't bring your weak ass "I'm going to teach you all the error of your ways" garbage in here. After reading a few of your posts it's very clear that the only thoughts you can regurgitate are the ones fed to you.

[ROX]

Originally posted by Hummoron:
Tower,

My problem with Hummer and SUV owners is that their selection of a vehicle ultimately effects me. While some may actually need their vehicle, most do not. At least the roads around here don't require the use of a large vehicle to pickup a bag of groceries. Their fuel guzzling vehicles might not be the primary cause of pump prices rising, but it certainly isn't helping. If more people chose fuel efficient vehicles, it might actually help. It would certainly get the car makers more interested in looking for ways to make safe yet efficient cars. And how many of you haven't silently said to yourself at some point "yeah, he'll move. I'm bigger than him"? How many people driving a BMW M5 has said the same? And I bet it hauls grociers just as well on less fuel.

Adam had what, about 15 miles of beach just for off-road vehicle use? But no, he decided to ruin the outdoors for anyone deciding to enjoy a nice walk along the beach in the pedestrian use only area. Arrogant prick. Or maybe he just couldn't be bothered to learn the rules? Maybe he missed the crossover, but then what was wrong with his GPS? I mean, he's got GPS, what does he need landmarks for? He had no excuse for being in the wrong area.

The next time there is a distress call, I hope the rangers search the prohibited use area first because "when we have a vehicle that makes us feel safe, we are going to test the limits anyway? They should have been looking in the place where they shouldn't have been." - Queen Sheba. But I guess you'd all cry about that too.

Maybe we just need to add a $100K tax to all hummer and suv sales so that the park service can have better and more rangers on duty in the middle of winter on a Saturday evening just in case one of you get in trouble. Cheers.

Hummoron: You've made it pretty clear by your posts, that you live out there. I'm sorry you have to be so spiteful toward one guy who broke the rules and paid for it with his life.

Your posts really aren't about the accident on the beach, they're about your OPINION on peoples "selection of vehicle". What people in America drive does not cause gas prices to go up or down. But this is not the place to point all that out. This thread is a FACT FINDING mission about an Onstar call that was not followed up on properly. I don't think his being in a Hummer had anything to do with breaking the rules. He may have done it in any 4wd he was driving. It's pure speculation.

Linda wants to find out what went wrong, and why her friends died. She doesn't care if it was a Hummer or a Volkswagon. She wants to know what happened to make her friends die of exposure, when authorities had co-ordinates that would lead them to the scene.

One more thing: Maybe you didn't know this, but Hummers have an Onstar system that can be tracked using GPS. The earlier model Hummers do not have the kind of GPS you would use out on the trails to find out where you've been and where you are. Adams was a 2004, so maybe he did have it. I don't know. So, please don't speculate.

If you'd like to tell us your hatred of big SUV's, save it for another post.

If Linda's post is correct, Onstar recieved an emergency button, and airbag deployment alert. Why didn't they inform 911?

"After the park rangers’ initial search was called off late that first night, it wasn’t until the Starky’s body and the Hummer were found early the next morning that a comprehensive multi-agency search was conducted of the entire area. It remains to be seen if a similar search conducted the night before could have possibly found the crash site and the victims."

They weren't sure if there was someone out there; they weren't sure if it was an actual emergency; they weren't sure why the coordinates were so hard to locate; They just plain old weren't sure of anything. They should have called in the big dogs that night, just to be sure no one was out there.

Let's put it this way.
If the Coast Guard would have recieved that call, Adam and Jen would still be alive! I'm sure of it.

P.S. Take the BIG CAR tax idea and shove it up your ass. K?

[H2Finally]

ELOQUENTLY PUT! Roxs!

[h2co-pilot]

Originally posted by H2 Rocks:
If you'd like to tell us your hatred of big SUV's, save it for another post.



Yeah Humm-yourown, post your gripes on this thread.. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://elcova.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/5106011751/m/7711075411

[Linda]

It is amazing to me how the press oporates.... let me explain:

The is another site that has had a thread going about the hummer accident as well (http://www.stripersonline.com/ubb547/ultimatebb.php/topic/8/1986.html), and it is there that I orginally started posting. Then I found this one, and to be frank I have gottan a ton more info here. Anyway, a day or two ago I posted a message on that site telling anyone who was still interested in finding out the latest on this accident should check out this site. In doing so I must of offended some people because I was basically told to just "let it rest" and "stop blamming". I responed by merely stating that I was NOT trying to blame anyone.... but with out a doubt there were some very serious mistakes made that night, not only by Adam but by the Rangers in their lack of effort that night. I continued to say that there was a LOT of important facts that have surfaced that the papers are NOT publishing in trying to save face. The papers put in there what they want NOT the whole truth, I have never been more aware of this as to now. But anyway what I find amazing is that they DELETED my post, saying that I was making accusations!! Its seems o.k. for people to make accusations about Adam such as saying he was speeding (which has been proved that he was NOT) that he was drunk (which again he was not).... yet when I say something about the lame rescue effort that night I am BANNED form even letting others seeing my post!! WHAT??????

As for letting it rest.... how can I when obviously something is wrong in the way emergencies are handled on the island, and two people are dead as a result. If nothing else, I hope and pray that something good comes of all this, that people will be a bit wiser and learn from all this. Not only the people who 4-wheel but the authorites as well.

-Linda

[VTSTOMPER]

Can we all just agree that is was a tragic event and hope that nothing like this ever happens to anyone ever again? I hope that we all learned something here about 4weeling, and how sometimes every safety measure cannot save everyone, every time. Would I lock this thread if I could? Probably seeing how hummoron is acting in such a way that will only add to more and more replies, wasting bandwidth. Well, at least there are many adults here that are not whining their hatred for Hummers and all basic capitalism. Then only to turn and take it out on the poor soles that are no longer with us. After all it just ends up fueling to the all mighty hummer haters. If you hate my hummer, great, good…I love the fact that you do, after all it's you right. But coming onto a Hummer forum to talk poorly about Hummer is one thing. To start mocking people that have loved ones that died in a tragic death is horrific. Only because they are driving a hummer - holding them to a higher level of stupidity is immensely amazing on its own. As Linda said, mistakes were made…yes! Mistakes by what sounds like everyone involved pretty much had one or two mistakes probably. We like to call that human error. It can happen when you misjudge a cooking recipe…oh well…it can also happen and cost people lives…when this happens it is truly a sickening thing. Please find it in your heart to see your reflection in the mirror and just allow all whom died to rest in piece.

[Salt Lake City HUMMER]

Originally posted by VTSTOMPER:
Can we all just agree that is was a tragic event and hope that nothing like this ever happens to anyone ever again?


Amen

[KenP]

Linda, your last post was edited on that forum: **edited**

Sorry Linda, but this is not going to become a platform for you to toss around speculation and accusations of that sort. We are sorry you lost your friend and many here have expressed their condolences, but it’s way past time to put this one to bed here. If anyone wishes to continue to follow this with Linda I will leave the link up there to the Hummer message board for awhile. Please take it over there and leave it there.

Your cooperation is greatly appreciated.

[ 03-24-2005, 05:49 PM: Message edited by: Bill Klein ] Adam made a mistake and we can all agree on that. What I am interested in is the response, or lack there of. According to the other forum the parents have gotten lawyers. Now that may bother me depending on where they go with it.

[PARAGON]

Originally posted by Salt Lake City HUMMER:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VTSTOMPER:
Can we all just agree that is was a tragic event and hope that nothing like this ever happens to anyone ever again?


Amen </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Guys, what fairytale land are you from. "Let's just HOPE that nothing like this ever happens again" http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gifhttp://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif? To several adults here, this is not some idea you can just keep at arm's length. Please do us all a favor and read all of the posts here before you post your opinion about the subject. To just write off the whole thing and forget about it, you would have to ignore the facts and basically not give a damn as to whether or not something could have been done different. You see, this isn't about one person making a mistake. It is about a standard operation procedure that must be flawed for this to have transpired the way it did.

This same thing could happen on any rural road in any state if the emergency services are not trained properly.

[Marcmedic]

You bet your ass I'd be canned if I pulled anything like that. What they did went way past negligence, and there is no way you can say otherwise. They were lazy, plain and simple. Just becuase Adam was somewhere he wasn't supposed to be, and possibly being careless does not free emergency responders from performing their duties. Maybe the next time a drunk plows into a loaded minivan I'll just leave him there since he was stupid...I think not. The Park Rangers ****ed up, plain and simple, and in the end they'll pay the price with their jobs and a lawsuit. When you call off a search and the people die of exposure because you were lazy...you pay.

[tower]

Gosh,

In some ways, I agree with Vistomper and wish we could lock this thread. It can be emotionally taxing. On the other hand, I find myself bristling at hearing that Linda was censored/muted on another site. (Apparently freedom of speech and the press only apply to those with whom that moderator agrees.) So I wouldn’t want to prevent Hummoron from writing in, I just hope that his judgment continues to improve. Perhaps he might refrain from judging at all.

I’m not interested in vilifying the Onstar operator, the 911 operator or any of the rangers, at least not until all the facts become clear. But as Paragon states, Emergency Service’s protocols necessarily must be evaluated on an ongoing basis if they are to remain current. It is very sad when a tragedy and subsequent lawsuit are the required impetus to effect this reevaluation. When departments stay current of their own accord, tragedies are minimized in severity and number. When departments do otherwise, unfortunately, this is frequently the mechanism that forces the change.

I find this type of dialogue to be very healthy. I would be very surprised if certain involved authorities are not watching the exchange on this site closely. The more we can shed light on what happened, the better. In secrecy, things only fester and worsen.

t~

[KenP]

Just wondering, what do the Rangers have to do between 9:30pm and 8am? Sure, in the morning people are coming through, but what about in the middle of the night. I think, if nothing else, curiosity would get me out there driving along the beach checking things out. What were they doing?

[crystalstarkey]

This is the cousin of adam and the step sister of jen. adam was like a big brother to me. me, jen and him were together every weekend. i know everything there is to know about both of them. Im glad that i wasnt with them, i was sopposed to hang out with them that weekend. but im sure if it was just me adam and jen would both be just as upset as me. i agree with everything that everyone has said. thank you. it means alot. i cant explain how mad and upset it makes me to hear what happend with everything. the coordinates, the rangers not searching long enough... i could go on and on. I just wanted to thank you all for everything.

[tower]

And we all want to express how sorry we are for your loss.

[ROX]

Originally posted by crystalstarkey:
This is the cousin of adam and the step sister of jen....I just wanted to thank you all for everything.

Crystal. Linda. My heart goes out to you both.
Please post new facts as they become available. You'll have our attention.

[beachinJeeper]

If I may, and as a regular on the site mentioned previously, it should be known that many of us there are on the beach 2-3 days at a time fishing, maybe 8 months out of the year, so maybe we know the Island and it's rangers better than alot of people.

Couple things come to mind about the accident, and the roll, as close as I can logically figure is, it was dark, probably not driving in the water but along the adjacent beach, can't say how fast he may have been driving, but from experience, probably faster than the 25mph limit. Along the beach's edge, the tides can create "drop-offs" some I have seen 3' and greater, so, scenerio in my mind would be, travelling slighty (for the sake of argument) more than the posted speed, at night, came upon an "edge" which was either seen too late or not at all, and the vehicle rolled.

What bothers me the most though is the talk about the rangers, and maybe changes need to be made, but shouldn't effect those of us who know the rules and follow them, which may just happen, and thus because of the "stupidity" of the minority, the majority may end up getting screwed. The rangers have about 18 miles of legal ORV area, guess some of which may be 1/2 mile wide or more (not sure), to keep an eye out on, so a vehicle in an emergency situation, it could be assumed by some of the "facts" presented, should have had an ORV permit, known the rules and therefore on the ORV zone. Now, driving from the ORV entrance down to the Virginia line itself is about a half hours drive, then, who nows how much time could be spent driving the reckognized crossovers that take one west toward the bay, but figure one could take another half hour looking in each of theses areas,so I could see one spending almost 4 hours or more searching the ORV area alone. So, maybe, that is where the search was done. Heard quite a few times where vehicles were in an emergincy situations, but by the time the rangers arrived, either others helped them, or managed on their own to get out of, with no call to the rangers, so rangers have looked for vehicles in an emergency situation, of course finding nothing.

Also, off the ORV, and nothing exactly indicated it was on the ORV, there are other access areas toward the bayside, where vehicles are permitted, so maybe those areas another hour or two search. So, a thorough search of allowed vehicle access may take upwards of 5-6 hours or more to accomplish.

Also, the area of the accident was in the area of the rangers station, amazingly enough, where if one had walked west away from the ocean, maybe a five or ten minute walk, help would have been there, so, maybe another reason to focus on the ORV area.

Now can say first hand seen some "inexperiencd" drivers on the ORV when schools get out, driving fast (too fast), doing doughnuts and flat out wrecklessly driving, seen some rollers, but very few in the years there, plenty of burried to the frames, broken axles and blown engines.

Me, don't know for a fact lawsuits filed, it wouldn't surprise me, one can sue for just about anything in this here good ol' US of A, and though, yes a tragic accident, would hate for the Park Service to be blamed for many driver errors that might have occirred that night. Believe it or not, they do their jobs, and feel they do them well,and are more than willing to go above and beyond their "stated duties". But to blame them, when, the driver took his vehicle in a "no vehicles permitted" area, which is clearly signed (and nobody has said whether he had a valid permit or not at this point), probably exceeding the posted speed, and even if not drinking, so will assume they were not, if you are not familiar with the beach, surprises can be just ahead of you, and before you realize it, best case, you are stuck to the frame, or, as in this case, a tragic accident occurs.

I am sorry for the loss of lives, and feel for the families involved, and my prayers are with them, but we here in America must begin to place blame where it belongs, on the individuals, and not looking to pin the blame on others.

Just my two cents worth as an AI regular, so those that feel the need, go ahead and bash away, I am a big boy, I can take it.

Me, nothing against Hummers or the owners, but.

Have Jeep will travel

[Hummers_Suck]

First of all I'd like to say it a shame what happened to these two young people. This should of never happened, but when you don't follow the rules you put yourself and others at risk.

I am a former employee of Assateague during my college days. The rangers that work there are good people and are always willing to help people and go above and beyond what they are asked.

Are the Rangers at fault for Adam's stupidity? Are they at fault he was driving a vehicle that wasn't designed for high rates of speed? Should he have been in an area that was off limits?

I feel like the coast guard in OC should have been involved with a helicopter or such. I'm not sure if it was.

[PARAGON]

Shaggy,

I think maybe you are not seeing the point trying to be made by most here. The Rangers did not do enough. That's indisputable because 2 people are dead that might otherwise would not have been. That's not to say that the individual Rangers are to blame, I don't think anyone here knows enough to state that. The Rangers were the last component of this emergency operation and failed to find them, it's that simple. It's the why that has most here concerned.

Everyone here does know that the driver likely caused his accident and put he and his passenger in the precarious situation. Bad judgement happens every day and sometimes results in this type of accident and we rely on emergency services to provide help in those situations. There was a breakdown here. The vehicle's coordinates were given but not used and there was no attempt to re-connect with the vehicle using the Onstar system. The Rangers, quite frankly, should not have been searching the entire island to begin with. They should have first zeroed in on the coordinates provided to the 911 operator but the Ranger that took the call from the 911 operator did not take the coordinates down and use them.

Maybe some of you don't understand about Onstar and that that is part of the reason for our concern. We pay a fee to have this Onstar service for emergency situations like what transpired on that island and depend upon that system and the subsequent emergency services because Onstar can GPS locate our vehicle in the event of such an emergency. This valuable tool was ignored altogether in this situation.

[beachinJeeper]

You are right, don't know anything about OnStar, besides the radio commercials I hear, and don't use any of the GPS tools out there, and don't believe so don't own a cell phone, so I would be the first to admit, may be that I am technologically challenged.

Don't know if this will work or not, but also with MapQuest (and maybe not a real good indicator) and the coordinates, the location given appears to turn up locations from west of Berlin to in the ocean. Now, if this is the best the coordinates could give for a location (and heard something about seconds not given ?) then the search area is very large. Sounds like maybe the rangers just got a general area, since there are no "intersections or street names" there may have led to some confusion of the where abouts, other than the only thing OnSTar apparently stated was Assateague Island, but still leaves a vast search area, and all I was trying to state was that, in vehicle allowed areas alone, a search could take upwards of 6 hours or more.

That said, maybe the driver had bad judgement, and maybe, in assuming the emergency was in an area where vehicle access was permitted, was bad judgement by the rangers (not that I feel this should be construed as not doing their jobs, or cause for a lawsuit against them), but feel if one was familiar with Assateaque Island (and there is the State Park Area (about 680 acres, and some in the water, but less than 5% of the portion of Assateague situated in the state of Maryland) and Federal Area, (plus the Virginia portion, where no vehicles are allowed)), one may see searching allowed areas could take quite some time, and searching the entire Park complex would indeed be time consuming and challeging since there are many places, some in wooded areas others in no vehicles permitted area that may take a full day or more to search every place a vehicle might have travelled. These facts might show, how, even though the rangers were the last components, may have failed them. Also like stated, they have searched the Island before for vehicles in emergency situations, and found nothing, because the "emergency" was rectified, but the owner of vehicle felt no need to call a let those looking, trying to help, know all was okay. So, they searched the permitted areas, and maybe felt, well, another one got itself out of trouble, so at the time, given past experiences, felt all was okay, only to find out, like all of us, the vehicle did not make it's way out.

Worst thing of the entire situation, the entire truth may never be known, and thus, perfect corrective action plans, from OnStar, Sherrifs and Rangers will never be able to be structured and therefore implemented, and best case scenerio, is what minor changes, given the limited details to the facts, may improve emergency response, but the best plan is to have one know the rules, be aware of conditions, and they can change dramtically, and quickly, and be cautious and aware that for the most Assateague is a wilderness area, maybe not huge, but big enough.

[h2co-pilot]

I will first off admit that I have limited knowledge on GPS and Onstar function. I am concerned because shortly I will be 4 wheeling in a designated park that has limited cellphone reception, but I am sure they have rescue plans and procedures.

Will someone please correct me if I am wrong, but it seems that the problem lies with the category of the Onstar call.

In the 911 tapes that Paragon intelligently posted, the Onstar rep said the button was pressed. But there was screaming heard and no attempt to speak to the rep. The airbags did not deploy then? Or did they deploy and place the call to Onstar? Maybe the airbags placed the call or signal and it was misinterpreted as a less emergent call if it was pressed. Then so the rep would have put a more emergent status which would demand further rescue attempt other than the rangers or police helping another vehicle in the area. The word Hummer was indicated on the tape however. Does anyone know about that? I am confusing myself.

I believe, as most of you do, that those in police and rescue are there for because they want to be and are very diligent and courageous people and I do not want to jump on them because it was a difficult situation.

And Hummers_Suck, the post is well taken but your forum name is needlessly negative.

[h2co-pilot]

And for record, I am not worried about my upcoming trip ( pretty dern syked http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif) because I am going with super-cool and competent individuals. I was just giving others a "for instance situation" on why we are interested in this matter http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

[Hummoron]

First of all let me say that some of my earlier comments were inflammatory and that discussions about hummers off-topic. I allowed myself to get riled up by other people's comments who seemed to think that as a hummer driver, they should be going in more dangerous and otherwise off-limit areas. As a result, I took the extreme opposite position.

Having said that, I think that Shaggy as wonderfully expressed my more true (and level) sentiments on this topic. His firsthand knowledge of both the area and rangers is very insightful. Ruining one or more ranger's life (have some have expressed) over the action's of one person who was clearly breaking the rules and taking several unnecessary life risks on their own would be an injustice. More likely is that the rules will be changed for all ORVs and everyone will be punished.

The rangers searched the area as the past experience would have guided them to do. People are also assuming that the rangers had access to GPS, but that is also speculation (just as I speculated that the driver also had a GPS display).

In the transcripts that I've read, I have never seen where the 911 operator even suggested they had latitude longitude coordinates, just "coordinates". Maybe OnStar should have called the Park directly instead of going through an intermediary.

For those of you paying money for OnStar and perceive this to be an infallible safety net, well, I think this incident shows that it is not.

There are many gaps in the story. Initially I heard that the airbags were not deployed and then a month later, that they were. I don't understand how there could be any confusion over that given the OnStar commercials that I've seen.

After the hummer was recovered, the front windshield and driver's side door were both missing. The back of the hummer was bent in like a V. I am assuming that those damages were done during the roll. Given how many people drive on the beach (and some in 4x4 Vans), I just have a hard time imagining what natural conditions could have existed that would have caused a hummer of all vehicles to roll and suffer that much damage. Hence the speculation that the driver was acting in a way that was way beyond normal beach driving.

I understand that the inside cab of the hummer was also greatly water damaged, suggesting that it had been in deep water for a lengthy amount of time. If the vehicle ended in the ocean in or beyond the breakers as a result of the accident, I am also not surprised that the rangers would have missed it, even if they had driven right by it. In my naivety, I would be shining my spotlight (it was dark, after all) from the water's edge to the dunes. But, I am speculating.

If the rangers did a full out search and rescue for every call they get to the level that would have been necessary in this case, well, who is going to pay for it (I'm imagining at least one, if not several, helicopters and multiple trucks in the search)? As a taxpayer, I certainly don't. That may sound cold, but those searches cost lots of money quickly. The $70/year entrance fee certainly doesn't cover it either. The coast guard getting a call about a boat in distress is a much more obvious need of a full search than someone stuck in the sand (which is where the ORV should have been, in the sand). Given that others don't cancel a search after being "rescued" makes this even more problematic.

I've gone out on the beach in the winter and didn't have OnStar or a cellphone. I was fully aware that if I even got stuck, no one would be the wiser until the next day when I didn't return and I would be responsible for getting my own self out. As a result, I tended to drive more carefully (not that I still didn't do some stupid things). You take risks and accept the consequences. Adam might have been perfectly fine with that.

I also don't know the facts and could be completely off-base (about the accident itself).

And despite one person's claim, I am not against commercialism and people should be able to spend their money on better things. That doesn't mean we can do anythng we want. Just because I can afford a TeraWatt Bass Thumper for my car, doesn't mean I should be playing it all full blast while next to other people. With owning something also comes responsibility.

[KenP]

For lack of a better term I will use "sand cliffs". These often form along the beach in that area as the tide receeds. Adam could have been driving at a moderate speed and caught the edge of one, gotten scared and jerked the wheel. Very easily and rolling into the surf. That would absolve him of driving crazy, not of making a bed decision and going where it was not legal.

I still have a hard time understanding OnStar and the Dispatcher's level of concern. Remember, there was a hysterical woman screaming in the background. Was that relayed to the Rangers?
I like Marcmedics response best: "You bet your ass I'd be canned if I pulled anything like that. What they did went way past negligence, and there is no way you can say otherwise. They were lazy, plain and simple. Just becuase Adam was somewhere he wasn't supposed to be, and possibly being careless does not free emergency responders from performing their duties. Maybe the next time a drunk plows into a loaded minivan I'll just leave him there since he was stupid...I think not. The Park Rangers ****ed up, plain and simple, and in the end they'll pay the price with their jobs and a lawsuit. When you call off a search and the people die of exposure because you were lazy...you pay."

However, I just want to know exactly what happened. I hope the HUMMER's black box was not damaged. That will be telling.

[Hummoron]

That would absolve him of driving crazy, not of making a bed decision and going where it was not legal.

Regardless of the first two, he was still driving in a non-vehicle area. He should not have been where he was. Had he been, the initial search may have been much more successful.

Do the hummers have black boxes to record the driver?! That could really shed a lot of light onto this.

[beachinJeeper]

Personally, don't feel this is a Hummer vs. Jeep, or any other off roader, but individuals choose what they want to drive, me a Jeep, others Hummers, which is all and good, my problem is, and I would hope to feel the same way if it was a Jeep, where should one start looking?

And to quote:

"Just becuase Adam was somewhere he wasn't supposed to be, and possibly being careless does not free emergency responders from performing their duties."

Maybe they DID PERFORM their duties, looking where they SHOULD have been looking, I don't know, see this is all BS, and maybe getting a little PO'd, and for the recird, have no connection personally with the rangers, other than fishing, but check the layout of AI, and the regulations, and where would you look?

Why can it not be a tragic accident, that it was, and not say he or she, shoulda, coulda done this? As far as I can tell, the rangers did look, and did not know the Hummer was on a no vehicle permitted area. They searched the most likely place, and I be damned, but those men and women do their jobs, and more, and I myself, thank them, though in some eyes, they failed.

[DRTYFN]

Originally posted by shaggy:


Could you do everyone a favor and change your screen name? We've already got a Shaggy, and it's just too weird seeing intelligent coherent posts with that name over them. It's like some kind of Bizarro world or Twilight Zone.

Thanks in advance.

[ShaggyX]

Originally posted by DRTYFN:
Could you do everyone a favor and change your screen name? We've already got a Shaggy, and it's just too weird seeing intelligent coherent posts with that name over them. It's like some kind of Bizarro world or Twilight Zone.

Thanks in advance. Yeah...what he said. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

[beachinJeeper]

I'd like to, but everyone knows me as shaggy (nickname since high school many a years ago), and so it is, and thanks, I think, for the compliment about intelligent posts, but the name is what it is, go to stripers on line, or pier and surf, same name same feelings, I don't hide and try where ever, to keep my name, so those who like or dislike know, I have my thoughts and try not to hide behind anything.

Besides, "It's a Jeep thing", and I am comfortable with it.

[Marcmedic]

Just because someone made a mistake does not justify negligence on the part of a public servant/emergency responder. Let's say you're at a pool and choose to ignore the sign that says no diving in the shallow end of the pool. You dive in and knock yourself out. Is the lifeguard justified in just sitting there and letting you drown because you disobeyed the sign??? The Park Rangers has a duty to act and their actions deviated from an accepted standard for emergency responders. You bet your ass they should lose their jobs. They're an disgrace to public saftey workers everywhere. What happens when you set your house on fire and the fire department just sits outside and watches it burn because you left the oven on. Or when the paramedics refuse to take you to the hospital becuase you shouldn't have been running with scissors. Where does your line of thinking draw the line? There is no way you can justify their lack of action on this, and your attemts to do so just show your ignorance in this type of situation.

[beachinJeeper]

Okay, and imagine there is diving allowed in certain areas, and none in others, and imagine the pool is 10,000 acres or more, where would you start looking? Like I have said, I spend a lot of time on AI, and not blaming Adam or Jenn because they were in Hummers, just trying to let those who are not familiar with AI, the area of search that may have or not have been done. I don't know where they actually looked, just saying, the search in best of conditions, during daylight could have taken hours, and believe me, I feel as bad as anyone, because as much time as I spend out there, well, I realize if not cautious, it could be my last. Mistake were made, fact, but don't put more blame on x, y or z.

Have Jeep will travel

[h2co-pilot]

Originally posted by ShaggyZr2:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DRTYFN:
Could you do everyone a favor and change your screen name? We've already got a Shaggy, and it's just too weird seeing intelligent coherent posts with that name over them. It's like some kind of Bizarro world or Twilight Zone.

Thanks in advance. Yeah...what he said. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah...what he said. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

[Hummoron]

From what I've read, the rangers did search, just didn't find them. I'm sure that if they did, they would have done all they could to save them. There is absolutely no indication that the rangers blew off the seach just because it was a hummer. Nor did the blow it off because they were trespassing, we only learned that until later.

If someone calls 911 while jumping from the Empire State Building, are you going to blame the rescue workers for not catching him? Your analogies about fire and scissors are as bad as mine, Marcmedic.

There were a lot of unknowns at the time about the situation. Hindsight is 2020. Why didn't Onstar make a bigger deal out of it? Why didn't they ask to be redirected to the local rescue team instead of only dealing with the 911 middleman? How many rangers were on duty and what level were they? It was a Saturday night in the middle of winter, do they do enough rescue work of this type that requires their top skilled rangers to be on staff 24x7? (and I am by no means knocking the skills of the rangers who were there)

Onstar took the call. They were the only ones who might have fully grasped the severity of the situation. They should have monitored the progress of the search directly. Maybe Onstar needs to have their own rescue people that can be put in to service at these times? They are the ones making the promise about getting rescued.

[Marcmedic]

Mummoron, the problem is that they called off their search. You have repeatedly pointed out that the rangers were not at fault. The fact is this. They died HOURS after the rangers called off the search, and they died of hypothermia. If they kept searching but didn't find them in time, that's another story. They didn't use all of their available resources. The person working at the PSAP that took the call from OnStar is just as much to blame as the rangers. Now you're starting to point the finger at OnStar, saying that they should have made a bigger deal out of it. OnStar is in no way required to do this. They called the local PSAP (public safety answering point) and they are supposed to handle it, not OnStar. Once again the finger gets pointed right back at the park rangers. I could care less about what kind of vehicle they were driving. You made this about the H2. You obviously have no knowledge about how the 911 system works or the responsibilities of emergency responders, yet you come up with these lame theories on who is to blame. Are all park rangers to blame. No. Are all the park rangers at that facility as negligent in performing their duties as the ones on that night? No again. But to think for one minute that the park rangers on duty and their dispatcher that night handled the situation appropriately is just plain ignorant.

[Marcmedic]

And by the way, OnStar makes a promise to inform Police/Fire/EMS in the case of an emergency...which they did. I wasn't aware that on your planet of stupidity that a private business should have to monitor government agencies to make sure they do their damn jobs. You're an idiot, plain and simple. I actually think we're all dumber from reading your posts.

[tower]

Marc's pretty well got you on his 811p.m. post, Hummoron.

[Hummoron]

They died HOURS after the rangers called off the search, and they died of hypothermia.


I'm sorry, but I missed the news reports when they pinpointed the time of death and gave the time table of the park rangers activities. Could you please post that so I can be better informed. Thank you.

[Marcmedic]

Every time you've been proven wrong you come up with something else. Why not address the issues at hand. THEY CALLED OFF THE SEARCH WITHOUT FINDING ANYTHING!!! They never called OnStar back. They never called in any additional resources to help look. A simple call for assistance to any agency with a helicopter with infared capabilities would have been able to find them. You can't tell me that there wasn't time to find them. They both died of exposure, not from injuries sustained in the wreck. And before you paint the finger at OnStar again think about this, can you call for a search and rescue helicopter directly???Neither can OnStar

[Hummoron]

Marcmedic,

I'm just asking to read the same reports that you obviously have that states when they died and when and what the park rangers were doing.

You posted as fact that they called off the search and then the two people died. I am more than willing to believe you, I just want to read it for myself.

Point me to the facts and I'll stop being so stupid....well, I'll try.

[Marcmedic]

Read the first post. They cancelled another agency that was responding, and they didn't start a full blown search and resce operation until AFTER they found the first body over 12 hours after the intial call.

[Hummoron]

Uhm, that post states:

“How far away was your deputy?” the park ranger asked.

“Well, we cancelled him. Do you want us to go ahead and send him back in?” the 911 operator replied.


So, it was 911 that cancelled a police deputy and not the ranger. What is a police car going to do on the beach besides get stuck?

Should the ranger have called for a full blown search and rescue when all he was given was:

“The incident we have is going on at the National Parks Service,” the 911 operator informed an Assateague Park ranger. “An emergency button was pushed to OnStar on a vehicle that’s a Hummer somewhere out there and they gave us coordinates, but we have no idea where this is.”

Almost all (but this one) beach emergencies are a stuck truck. Should he respond to all such calls in the future as if it was this one? Go back and read shaggy's (or whatever his new name is) about what the ranger's life is normally like at this specific park.

[ROX]

Does anyone know if they found the Hummer at or near the GPS coordinates that Onstar relayed to Emergency Services?

What were the actual coordinates the Hummer was at when it was found?

[crystalstarkey]

I have to admit, when i found out about the accident i didnt know there was any evidence of onstar so i automatically blamed them. then later finding out they did respond i emailed them and they sent me a letter back. i learned that they did do what they had to do. but why did they not call back to see if everything was ok? Onstar has told me its not their job to follow up. Why didnt onstar keep them on the line incase they could make verbal contact? I dont know. Im not blaming onstar. the thing that makes me mad is that they cancelled the search with out finding anyone. Adam and Jen died of hypothermia. Which means they could have been saved.

[h2co-pilot]

Did the rangers have access to mobile GPS units? Only recently has a dispatcher been able to shout out coordinates only and say GO!

[Hummoron]

they cancelled the search with out finding anyone


According to Shaggy, people frequently get "rescued" (ie: unstuck) and don't call off the search.

Onstar is still new. Maybe if it was their policy to follow-up, everyone would be better served. Getting a call from Onstar saying "We're tracking the vehicle and see that they're moving again. Did everything go ok?" would certainly avoid wasting a ranger's time looking for someone who was no longer there.

[Marcmedic]

People frequently call 911 with a medical emergency, and then decide to get in their own car and drive to the hospital before units arrive. Does this mean I don't have to continue on the call. The policy where I work is if someone calls 911, then calls back to cancel, we still send a unit to their location to check. Just becuase people are inconsiderate and don't inform them when their "emergency" has resolved itself before the rangers arrive doesn't mean that you can apply that line of thinking to every call. Complacency is a bad thing in my line of work and will get you in a load of trouble. So now you agree with Shaggy and since they've had false calls before it's OK that they treated this like one also. You keep making my point. Thanks. At least 95% of the automatic fire alarms that we go on are false. We still send multiple pieces of equipment and we all run hot to get there. We know it's probably going to be nothing. And it's also a waste of time and resources. But the 5% of the time that it really is a fire it pays off. We treat every call like it's the real thing and don't half-ass routine calls. I think you can see why.

[Hummoron]

The fire alarm goes off in the building I work about twice a year. The fire department doesn't send over the entire force, but just one truck to look for the fire, which turns out to be a faulty sensor (even though they were just tested the week before).

The fire department's response has been more than adequate so far. However, if it ever turned out to be a real emergency, they would have wasted valuable time. From the emotions here, I should be looking for someone's head if that ever happens. Maybe I should start demanding that we get a full fledge response each and every time.

[Marcmedic]

WHat you probably don't see is that they sent several trucks which were cancelled by the first arriving unit when they arrived on scene with no smoke showing. Sometimes the alarms gets reset before the engine arrives. The engine should continue to check while the rest of the incoming units get cancelled.

[Hummoron]

The beach is a big place to search and not easily done. Not quite the same as being sent to a street address. Everytime someone didn't call off a search, they would have to go out with at least a 100 people, helicopters, and vehicles to search the entire island until they could prove that no one was there not accounted for.

I guess it could be done.

A lot cheaper just to close the beach so that we can avoid this in the future. $70/truck (does anyone know how many stickers they issue? 1000? 2000?) just isn't worth it.

[Marcmedic]

Someone stuck in the sand vs. someone screaming in the background after a distress button was pushed should have provoked a different response.

[Hummoron]

WHat you probably don't see is that they sent several trucks which were cancelled by the first arriving unit when they arrived on scene with no smoke showing. Sometimes the alarms gets reset before the engine arrives. The engine should continue to check while the rest of the incoming units get cancelled.


No, I can assue that no other trucks were sent. They might be in the station ready to go, but they don't leave.

[Marcmedic]

I agree, that the search would have been very difficult. Who knows, they may never have found them even with help. It doesn't excuse a lack of effort though.

[Marcmedic]

No, I can assue that no other trucks were sent. They might be in the station ready to go, but they don't leave.
I'm glad you can see their station from your office.

[Hummoron]

Someone stuck in the sand vs. someone screaming in the background after a distress button was pushed should have provoked a different response.


I didn't read where the 911 operator passed that information (someone screaming) along.

While Adam and Jenn were not, a lot of drinking, hollering, and junior behavior goes on at the beach.


“We didn’t receive a discernable response,” said Terry Sullivan, vice president of communication for OnStar. “The advisor indicated that he thought he heard a woman’s voice, but the sounds are unclear.”

Could have been a lot of things. We know different, now.

[Hummoron]

I'm glad you can see their station from your office.


I can.

[Marcmedic]

OnStar: My name is Walter. I do have a connection with the vehicle, however, I’m not getting a response. It’s fading in and out, and I do hear screaming inside the vehicle, but I don’t know what the actual emergency is.

they were unable to locate the source of the distress call reported by OnStar, and the search was ultimately called off after several hours.

[Hummoron]

I agree, that the search would have been very difficult. Who knows, they may never have found them even with help. It doesn't excuse a lack of effort though.

But they did search. They searched the most logical places based on the ranger's past experience. Had they been in the ORV section, they would have been found lickity split. They weren't there. It was dark.

I must be wrong, but I didn't think it was that uncommon to cancel a search until conditions changed (such as becoming light) if the initial search didn't find anything.

[Marcmedic]

OK, we'll try this one more time.
Could have been a lot of things. We know different, now.
This has no bearing on their duty to act. They have a responsibility. So did the Sheriff's department that cancelled themselved off of the call. I'm sure they'll be mentioned in the lawsuit also. Just because it could be something else doesn't relieve you of you duties. Plain and simple.

[Marcmedic]

And when the search in the logical places didn't turn anything up another call should have been placed to OnStar to check the status of the vehicle and the search should have been expanded.

[Marcmedic]

I give up, I'm going to bed. BTW, all the guys here at the staion wish there were more people out there like you who wouldn't hold us accountable so we could get more sleep at work.

[KenP]

Asked by hummoron:
Do the hummers have black boxes to record the driver?! That could really shed a lot of light onto this. Are you reading the posts? About 3" above your comment was this: However, I just want to know exactly what happened. I hope the HUMMER's black box was not damaged. That will be telling. Posted by the OTHER shaggy:
Maybe they DID PERFORM their duties, looking where they SHOULD have been looking, I don't know, see this is all BS, and maybe getting a little PO'd, and for the recird, have no connection personally with the rangers, other than fishing, but check the layout of AI, and the regulations, and where would you look?
According to the coordinates givin, the water. OnStar provided rough coordinates — 38.21 latitude and -75.14 longitude — to the 911 operator, but those numbers were not passed onto park rangers at the time. Moving down the line I can't help but admire the response of marcmedic. He is willing to take responsibility for actions he does, or does not take You dive in and knock yourself out. Is the lifeguard justified in just sitting there and letting you drown because you disobeyed the sign??? The Park Rangers has a duty to act and their actions deviated from an accepted standard for emergency responders. You bet your ass they should lose their jobs. Posted by the other shaggy:
Okay, and imagine there is diving allowed in certain areas, and none in others, and imagine the pool is 10,000 acres or more, where would you start looking? I would start looking where the mayday coordinates dictated. Posted by the moron:
From what I've read, the rangers did search, just didn't find them. I'm sure that if they did, they would have done all they could to save them. Again, here are the coordinates: 38.21 latitude and -75.14 longitude. The coordinates are outside the designated offroad area so why was only the legal Offroad Area searched? The motion of the waves geanerally moves objects north anyway. Any ambiguity as to where the vehicle was should lead an experienced Ranger to check north. Postd by themoron:
They searched the most logical places based on the ranger's past experience. Had they been in the ORV section, they would have been found lickity split. They weren't there. It was dark.
Wrong, they did not search the area of the coordinates provided by OnStar.

It seems that a few new members are jumping in here without reading the entire thread. Furthermore, they are not reading all the info available to them in this thread.

Most here are not castigating the Rangers or the Troopers. If you newbies would read EVERYTHING before posting you would see most of us are merely curious as to the truth. Posted by the moron:
Should the ranger have called for a full blown search and rescue when all he was given was:

“The incident we have is going on at the National Parks Service,” the 911 operator informed an Assateague Park ranger. “An emergency button was pushed to OnStar on a vehicle that’s a Hummer somewhere out there and they gave us coordinates, but we have no idea where this is.” The GPS coordinates makes this response sound elementary. Actually, it's sad. Postd by Pebbles:
Does anyone know if they found the Hummer at or near the GPS coordinates that Onstar relayed to Emergency Services?

What were the actual coordinates the Hummer was at when it was found? Good question. Let's see. An CYA out there?Posted by the moron:
From the emotions here, I should be looking for someone's head if that ever happens. Maybe I should start demanding that we get a full fledge response each and every time. Wrong again. We are merely trying to find out the truth as to what happened by sharing information. As for this incident, let's see. OnStar button pressed, hysterical woman, coordinates in the water. Humm, you aren't that bright are you, hummoron? If nothing else, a man's machismo should demand finding that woman. I guess we know where you stand. If I knew a woman was in danger I'd do anything I could to find here. Even following coordinates.

Of course, I must reiterate, I am not blaming the Rangers. Generally, they do a wonderful job. I just want to know what happened. Plain and simple.

[KenP]

Posted by the moron:
But they did search. They searched the most logical places based on the ranger's past experience. Had they been in the ORV section, they would have been found lickity split. They weren't there. It was dark. No, they did not. The coordinates offered to them is where the search should have started.

Now if I am wrong, then I will have no problem apologizing to all involved.

Again, I just want to know what happened with the rescue effort and what caused the roll.

[dochummer]

Didn't they have the vehicle's number? Could they have called it to follow up on the vehicle themselves?

[H2Finally]

Marcmedic, forget it. Hummoron is not interested in a logical answer. He just felt really bad for being an insensitive moron earlier on. Now he needs to feel better about himself. Therefore, he will continue to argue to the death the syntax of his opinions, since they are the excuse for his earlier assholic posts.

All I can say is if I ever do something stupid and needed serious help, I hope to God I reach emergency personnels with your attitude, and not Hummoron's.

Thanks for doing a good and noble job! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[KenP]

Ditto H2F.

[tower]

Clearly, some of you don't quite understand the way a search works. When a call comes in, an Incident Commander is assigned. It is usually the highest-ranking officer available. He has a scribe, whose job it is to record, on paper, all actions and communications involved in the search as well as the time these occur. He also has assistants assigned to him and he chooses a site commander (the person in charge "on scene", who dispatches everyone there.

The first step is called the bastard search. All of the expected places are checked. This includes bathrooms, restaurants, coves that people frequent. Simultaneously, the assistants are gathering information: cell phone numbers, OnStar numbers, home & work numbers, local accommodation numbers. All of these are called. As much information as possible regarding clothing, ID, provisions and experience of the lost people is gathered and collated. After all this is done, if the person has not absolutely, positively been confirmed as found, what do you think happens?

Well, what is supposed to happen is a full-blown multi-agency search with all available resources begins. Why? Because the standard is that the search continues until those lost are rescued or recovered.

What actually did happen? Somebody said, “Aw shucks, it's a big area to search, it’s late, they're probably gone by now anyway.” No verification of whether or not that was the case. This violates the most basic principles of the search and is the DIRECTLY ATTRIBUABLE cause of these people not being found until they had expired. This sort of assumption is LETHAL and a total F.U. to lost public taxpayers.

When I hear the lame excuses asking "Why didn't someone say longitude and latitude coordinates instead of just coordinates" or "well maybe the ranger didn't have GPS" or how far from the coordinates were they found?" it makes me want to scream. Any ignoramus ranger knows what coordinates are. They all have GPS, and if they don't or don't know how to use them, THEY NEED TO ESCALATE THE SEARCH TO A HIGHER AUTHORITY! When you ask, "What's the Sheriff going to do? Roll a squad car on the sand?" Respectfully, that's none of your damned business!" You have no idea what airships the Sheriff has at his disposal or what interagency agreements exist. NONE OF THIS JUSTIFIES CALLING OFF THE SEARCH. A search NEVER gets called off because someone thinks they're probably okay or gone. This MUST BE VERIFIED and was not. When I hear you say, "They looked in the most likely places" I want to say yes, and they didn't find them. This is like ‘looking for a coin you lost 4 blocks away because the light is better over here.’

Bottom line, this isn’t a question of poor judgment and is not open to conjecture. The wheel doesn’t get invented from scratch when a missing persons call comes in and people don’t sit around and guess what they think happened and they don’t vote on what to do. There are strict protocols to follow and they were not followed. It is entirely possible that, because of this, two young people are dead. NO MORE B.S., NO MORE EXCUSES!

[Hummoron]

quote:
Asked by hummoron:
Do the hummers have black boxes to record the driver?! That could really shed a lot of light onto this.
Are you reading the posts? About 3" above your comment was this:

KenP, I was asking my question in direct response to the post above. I hadn't heard anyone mention the hummers having a black box before, hence my "?!" and the end of sentence. I was surprised. Obviously I don't know all the wonderful details about your chosen vehicle. I was further admitting that it could be a great tool to clear up what actually took place.

[beachinJeeper]

Okay, since the moderator is apparently going to close my account, this is probably close to if not my last post on the subject, but have enjoyed my brief stay here, and mostly see intelligent posts on the accident, even though obviously differring views, and appreciate the mostly civil nature of the replies here. That said, I will try and shed a little more light before being booted.

During the striper run at AI, it is usually only fishermen out on the beach at night, and as said, many of us are out there 2-3 days at a time. From personal experience it seems at night there is usually two or three rangers on duty during the night (probably more scheduled come June when the tourists and school kids arrive, but that is when most of us fishermen find other spots until mid September).

Generally, before dark, most of us find our night time fishing spot and for the majority stay until it gets light out, so patrolling the beach is a fairly easy deal.

Now, as stated before, and know little about GPS, andnot knowing the need of the OnStar operator to give seconds in the co-ordinates, which apparently were not given, and using mapquest, best I could do, seems the co-ordinates give locations from just west of Berlin, MD into the ocean.

Another thing I thought of is "where actually was the vehicle found"? Might have been in the State portion of the Park, and maybe the rangers did check the National Park area, finding nothing, if just driving up and down near the water's edge, might take an hour and a half or so.

Like I said, does not appear all facts have been release about this event, so we are only coming up with scenerios as to the hows, whats and whys.

Anyhow, thanks for letting me share, though to many, my opposing thoughts, and in closing, drive responsible and smartly, because whether Hummers or Jeeps, we are all off roaders, so same family, just different personalities.

Be safe, no need to make people think all offroaders are jerks or idiots, which for the record, as a majority, we are not, we are responsible and appreciate and take care of what areas to have fun on are open to us.

Just in case my account is closed though, goodbye. If not, if I hear of any more relavent facts, I will let ya'll know.

Have Jeep will travel.

[ROX]

Quote by Shaggy:Just in case my account is closed though, goodbye. If not, if I hear of any more relavent facts, I will let ya'll know. UnQuote:

This is the Hummer Forum! You can't get kicked off here! Don't pay any attention to Alec; he's still confused and thinks your the other Shaggy! Don't leave! We need intelligent people to add to the discussion (even if they drive poo-poo Jeeps http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ) You have to say a lot worse than Linda did to get booted. Maybe Stripersonline should think twice about why they did that because it's obvious some of you were interested in the investigation. That's okay, we'll take you and we're glad to have you here. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[beachinJeeper]

Gee, and I just figured the real reason he wanted me gone was that I drive an '87 Jeep Wrangler, and not my name, cause this is a Hummer board, but thanks H2 Rocks, me just wanting to find the facts, and give what info I can about AI and the rangers.

Can't respond about Linda's post, since it was deleted before I read it, but will say stripersonline is just a bunch of fishermen with four wheel drives that, well hang out and fish. Just seems many times things happen, and the consequences are less than appealing to us. Maybe part of our fear is, enough happens there, we lose our priveledges to fish all night, may be selfish, but that is our escape, and night time is the right time for fishing, just not the time for learning the beach. Also, I believe after dark, people on the beach must be actively fishing, not real sure there, might just be a reference to the fact that no sleeping on the beach after dark, but dozing off during sunlight hours while tanning is permissible.

Have Jeep will travel

[DRTYFN]

Shaggy, don't leave, just change your screen name. Our Shaggy has worked hard and taken loads of **** and has earned recognition as our lovable coat hanger-looking, mop-headed, mooching, deluded hippie with a lingering question about his true sexuality.

Do you want to be associated with that rep?http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Just change your name. We need another Jeeper to tease and make our wheeling beer bitch.http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gifhttp://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[beachinJeeper]

Well, except for the last part,about true sexuality, you have described me to a T. Me, don't believe in changing screen names from site to site, because, I is what I is, and if someone reads my posts anywhere, well, I would prefer it be as shaggy, small S.

Now, if I have to, before the moderator closes me, maybe he can change my screen name here to Jeepster or something so all know I am the "black sheep" http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif of the Hummer family, and give me a nice little picture (preferably a Jeep, because it is a Jeep thing), but can't in good conscious, do it myself, and don't know how to make the little ol' pictures.

But, believe it or not, want to get along and play by the rules, so maybe throw some suggestions, and we can have ya'll vote on the final choice.

Have Jeep will travel

Oh yeah, Hummers or not, you guys and gals are okay in my book http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

[tower]

Shag,

Just change you screen name or open a new account as shaggy jeep (shabby jeep? shabby cheap? the other shaggy? the smarter shaggy? you get the idea) or something like that. We'll knkow who you are. Drop the concern about being blocked. If we have tolerated Hummoron for this long, we're certainly not going to cut you.

As far as not having seconds reported on the coordinates, that is another specious arguement. The coordinates given peg the location about 1/4 mile off shore. At that point, you call the boats and choppers out. You do not decide that this very specific location "might be far enough off to be somewhere on shore, so let's not initiate the ICS. No one even TRIED using the coordinates to get a location that night. This is just more after the fact BS in an attempt to cover behinds.

[beachinJeeper]

Okay, with the advice of legal council, and the desire to some, name changed. As the Rolling Stones once sang "please allow me to introduce myself"

shaggy is now beachinJeeper, and wishes all a Happy Holiday (and don't mean to offend those of differring beliefs).

Still would like to get more facts out into the open and to the public, and maybe one day they will.

Still looking to see if I can find out if vehicle was in the Federal or State portion of the Island, could answer some questions, maybe not many, but

Have Jeep will travel http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[KenP]

Who are you and why are you here? http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Linda]

Somone asked about the recovery of the"black box" (dont know if thats really what it is called or not on a Hummer)... but I have found out that they did. It shows the time of the accident the speed at the time of the accident (15 mph) and that the airbags WHERE employed. That is all the further info that I was told. Just thought I would pass that on to those that were asking.

Have a wonderful Easter.
-Linda

[beachinJeeper]

Linda,

Just curious. Do you know if the vehicle was recovered in the State Park area of the Island or the National Park area?

If he was only going 15mph, and have no reason to doubt this as factual, then they hit an oceanside sand cliff (which have seen 3' and larger), which probably was seen too late, and maybe an attempt at overcorrecting, or not seen at all.

Again my condolences to all the family and friends of these two young people.

The deignated beer bitch, and the other ex-shaggy (make mine a Bud Light)


Have Jeep will travel http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[DRTYFN]

Originally posted by Linda:
Somone asked about...balh blah blah...
...blah blah blah...Easter.
-Linda

Ok, great. You can go now.

[beachinJeeper]

Okay, don't know the factuality, if that is a word, but get my drift, or the accuracy, but here is a post from another site, and unfamiliar with OnStar, well those that are may be able to shed light....

"When a vehicle equipped with Onstar receives a "hit" hard enough to deploy the airbags,the Onstar system in the vehicle automatically sends an emergency message to Onstar and the operators call to ask if the occupants are ok. That is the origination of the 911 call in the beach fatalities on Assateague. The vehicle was upside down according to the report. It is my belief that the antenna for Onstar is located in the roof of the vehicles. Upside down in salt water it is not very effective. The prohibited area on Assateague might be there because there is unexploded ordinance in that area. Those "mapping" programs aren't accurate once off the roads.FYI"

Like said, I don't know anything about this aspect, so chime in and straighten me out.

Have Jeep will travel http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[crystalstarkey]

adams hummer did have a blackbox. i dont know if im aloud to tell details because of the investigation and stuff. but i will tell you guys that his black box proved to us that he was going slow. just thought you guys might want to know.

[tower]

1. It is my belief that the antenna for Onstar is located in the roof of the vehicles. Upside down in salt water it is not very effective.

2. Those "mapping" programs aren't accurate once off the roads.FYI"

3. Like said, I don't know anything about this aspect

BJ, lay off the ganja, buddy.

1. Electromagnetic radiation doesn’t give 2 ****s about what you believe is effective! Upside down and immersed in saltwater, OnStar got the coordinates and reported them to the authorities.

2. Those mapping programs ARE DESIGNED to zero in on locations without the use of landmarks (roads). FYI!

3. Self evident. Pretty well covers your 1 & 2.

Peace, t~

[crystalstarkey]

The blackbox did not say he was going 15 mph, however, that was very close. My uncle was saying just the other day that that information may not help us because he could have hydroplaned his hummer, which could have made the blackbox say he was going slow. Just thought you might want to know.

[DRTYFN]

Ok, you can let this thread go away now. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

[Robert Larick]

This will be my first and last reply.

I feel compelled to post because I am the probably the most experienced of anyone with Assateague Island and Hummers. I own both an '99 H1 & '03 H2, I have actively, frequently fish AI (Assateague Island) for the last 6 years using the H1 as my "beach buggy". I use the H2 when I have an overflow of guests. Both Hummers are AI Park permitted.

I have traveled the entire island in all types of weather conditions including snow. I have been trapped by high tides from the Nor'easters that blow here. I have swerved around the items that wash up including a whale! I have carefully found my way over the sand cliffs and high tide washes that frequently form. I have driven into holes left unfilled from kids trying to dig to China. I have traveled that desolate dark island in sleepless stupors and in influenced states.

I have stood the H1 on its nose, jammed feet of wet sand in through the windows, buried it to its running boards. I have also put the h2 on very similar precarious angles both intentionally and accidently. Want to see the repair bills?

The death of 2 young people on that Island is a sobering event and very unfortunate for the families and emergency services related to the incident. I have learned something.

After reading 8 pages of posts, my thoughts are to those who 4-wheel and to those who rescue. I can assure everyone that the accident was due to carelessness and recklessness, plain and simple. No different than a drunk driver who runs off the road. As heartless as it sounds, I believe that if you are going to attempt extreme adventures, then there are rules to follow... If you don't. You play, you pay.

I hope that everyone here on this board learns, thinks and is reinforced about the obvious, that 4-wheeling is inherently dangerous. Don't ever rely on rescue services to save you! Only rely on your common sense, please! There are too many reasons, for me to list here of what I speculate to have happened. As an Hummer and AI expert, I can plainly see the sequence of events that occured and why. However, whatever specifically happened, my sympathy stops short with my condolences.

I come away with this story (and I hope that others do too) that we should never hold the park service people to be held responsible, never hold them into some type of culpability or liability for the lose of those lives in that situation. I am very said for the loss of 2 young people just having "fun", however I am encouraged to use this as an example and lesson to my 10 & 11 yr. old boys, in hopes that they maintain common sense at all times.

Never ever drive or ride unprepared for the worse, in dark or desolate or unfamiliar or illegal areas with out the buddy system, unless you have a death wish.

[tower]

All well and good for you, but it still doesn't absolve the rangers of negligence.

[Marcmedic]

Don't ever rely on rescue services to save you!

I guess you must love paying taxes to support a service that you don't count on to do their jobs.

[Klaus]

Originally posted by Marcmedic:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Don't ever rely on rescue services to save you!

I guess you must love paying taxes to support a service that you don't count on to do their jobs. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bingo! I couldn't agree more with Marc's posts on this subject.

[PARAGON]

Makes you feel pretty darned appreciated, doesn't it Marc and Tower. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

I guess no one should be held responsible for doing their jobs, especially those that are paid with our tax money.

[tower]

Paragon,

For Marc and myself, thank you. It really get's my back up when people make excuses for irresponsible emergency personnel. There are so many of us working hard to do our jobs responsibly. I feel like that’s lumping us all into one category and it makes me feel slimy. Ours is a business where not doing you job can cost lives. But not telling the truth will continue to cost even more.

Sorry for the rant. Thank you, again.

[4atthebeach]

After reading this thread and the last couple of posts I must respond to Tower and Marcmedic.
I see you throwing around words like negligence and incompintence, too lazy to do their job. From your posts Tower,Iam going to assume...something I fear you may have done a lot of,you were 3,000+ miles away from this tragic accident, Marcmedic I do not know where you were. As for me I was asleep in a warm bed. I did not have the information or lack of information that the rangers had. I was not out there planning, searching, or trying to find these people. So how can I evaluate the performance of these people...I can not and I will not. At least not from an internet site where anyone can post and portray to be whomever they choose. Not from the popular media either whose main drive is to sell papers. I too have been involved in EMS and Search and Rescue as a volunteer and proffesional for over 25 years. I have worked an incident, read the report in the paper and not even realized it was the same accident. Be the rescue proffesional you claim to be. If you have hard facts bring them out lets discuss it. It does not help anyone to arm chair quaterback an incident without the true facts. By the way if the media or internet ever starts blaming you, don't worry I've got your back. At least until there is some hard evidence to the contrary and there is documented action taken against you.

Keep those tips up

[Marcmedic]

I too have been involved in EMS and Search and Rescue as a volunteer and proffesional for over 25 years
And you should also be embarrased by their actions. Just curious as to what your involvement is with EMS and search and rescue? Anybody in this field with an ounce of pride in what they do should be outraged at public safety response to this incident.

[h2co-pilot]

4@thebeach, Your a little late on this thread and casting quick judgments as well my friend. I suggest you read the entire thread before you insult these two gentlemen.

[tower]

Marc,
I totally agree.

H2c,
Thank you.

4@tb,
Pony up, I've been doing this since 1980. What's your position and rank and who do you work for?

[PARAGON]

If one chooses to partake in the discussion here, please respect everyone else and at least read all of the prior post. Not only read them, but comprehend them as well. Our ignorance of all of the facts does not preclude us from making some factual assumptions. It is something that many people are forced to do everyday just to save lives, make assumptions that is. So I will further qualify this entire thread that the opinions and comments voiced here are the direct result of the information obtained here. It doesn't appear that the Rangers feel it necessary to review their actions or lack of action, nor does it seem that any additional followup information as related to the facts are flowing. So the opinions here are based on what has been reported thus far and those assumptions are educated guesses based on experience. Got it now. Does that make it easier to understand.

[DRTYFN]

Originally posted by Robert Larick:
This will be my first and last reply.

I feel compelled to post because I am the probably the most experienced of anyone with Assateague Island and Hummers. I own both an '99 H1 & '03 H2, I have actively, frequently fish AI (Assateague Island) for the last 6 years using the H1 as my "beach buggy". I use the H2 when I have an overflow of guests. Both Hummers are AI Park permitted.

I have traveled the entire island in all types of weather conditions including snow. I have been trapped by high tides from the Nor'easters that blow here. I have swerved around the items that wash up including a whale! I have carefully found my way over the sand cliffs and high tide washes that frequently form. I have driven into holes left unfilled from kids trying to dig to China. I have traveled that desolate dark island in sleepless stupors and in influenced states.

I have stood the H1 on its nose, jammed feet of wet sand in through the windows, buried it to its running boards. I have also put the h2 on very similar precarious angles both intentionally and accidently. Want to see the repair bills?

The death of 2 young people on that Island is a sobering event and very unfortunate for the families and emergency services related to the incident. I have learned something.

After reading 8 pages of posts, my thoughts are to those who 4-wheel and to those who rescue. I can assure everyone that the accident was due to carelessness and recklessness, plain and simple. No different than a drunk driver who runs off the road. As heartless as it sounds, I believe that if you are going to attempt extreme adventures, then there are rules to follow... If you don't. You play, you pay.

I hope that everyone here on this board learns, thinks and is reinforced about the obvious, that 4-wheeling is inherently dangerous. Don't ever rely on rescue services to save you! Only rely on your common sense, please! There are too many reasons, for me to list here of what I speculate to have happened. As an Hummer and AI expert, I can plainly see the sequence of events that occured and why. However, whatever specifically happened, my sympathy stops short with my condolences.

I come away with this story (and I hope that others do too) that we should never hold the park service people to be held responsible, never hold them into some type of culpability or liability for the lose of those lives in that situation. I am very said for the loss of 2 young people just having "fun", however I am encouraged to use this as an example and lesson to my 10 & 11 yr. old boys, in hopes that they maintain common sense at all times.

Never ever drive or ride unprepared for the worse, in dark or desolate or unfamiliar or illegal areas with out the buddy system, unless you have a death wish.

Brilliant!!! Why must this be your ONLY post? You belong here.

As Hummer Deity, I command you to stay.http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[LasVegas]

I've stayed out of this one but finally felt compelled to post. My first thought is that none of you have enough facts to make some of the judgements you've posted. Second, Hummoron & others make some valid points (his H2 bashing & callousness notwithstanding). Third, are we evaluating H2s, OnStar or Emergency Services? And forth, my opinion is based on what I've read here, not on investigative facts. I have to equate this to my experience in aviation and since credentials seem to be playing a part I'll start there:

1) 35 yrs flying experience - personal/professional. Ratings not important. 2) Chief pilot/chief flight instuctor/chief check pilot. 3) Accident prevention counselor - Federal Aviation Administration. 4) Investigator/expert witness aviation litigation

With that said, my conclusion will be brief. Regardless of how many qualified individuals there are onboard an airplane, there's only one PIC (pilot in command) and he/she is soley responsible for the outcome of the flight. Same holds true with automobiles. Whoever is driving the vehicle is ultimately responsible for the outcome, period. Others may play a part but only contributory. Take the case of the 1978 USAC aviation accident where many of the officials were killed in a chartered flight from Trenton to Indy. I both investigated & testified in that accident. The PIC was a friend of mine. Both the FAA and the National Weather Bureau were sued in this accident and were found negligent & contributory, but the cause of accident was still judged to be PIC error. He had 60,000 hours flight time but still made a bad judgement that cost many lives. As for this H2 incident, it appears clear that the driver made some very bad judgements, and paid the price along with his passenger. To somehow infer that OnStar, EMS or Rangers caused these deaths is ludicrous. However, if the investigation ultimately shows that they were in fact somehow negligent in carrying out their duties in accordance with the standards set for them, they too will pay a price. And if that proves true, new standards will be set that will possibly save lives in the future. But make no mistake, there's a huge difference between the responsibility of preventing the accident and trying to save lives after the fact.

On a personal note I have to add that it's time people start taking responsibility for their own actions and stop blaming everyone else. The schools are full of it, the courts are full of it and so is society in general. We look in all directions to find someone we can blame for our own decisions. Adam made bad judgements and paid for it. That's the way life works. It won't be the first or the last time. The unfortunate part is that someone else paid a price too.

[H2Finally]

LasVegas, while I feel that I comprehend your point, nevertheless, the analogy seemed inaccurate. A plane crash is often immediately fatal. Not so in this Hummer accident.

In my mind a closer analogy would be if the plane crashed in a remote island, but everyone survived. An SOS was sent and received, but was given a cursory search and rescue effort (ie. no fly over). HOURS LATER, the victims then died of HYPOTHERMIA.

This is less about cause of his death, but more of why wasn't he saved?

I feel that if the search and rescue effort was perhaps closer to the standard that Marcmedic and Tower operate under, we will now be discussing heroism of the rangers involved -- instead of cursing their incompetency.

[hummerNCO]

I have followed this thread since the first post by Paragon and until now I have stayed out of it too. But it has turned out to be such a huge, super long, on-going, thread that would not die, that I have to add my avatar/name for posterity.

So here is what I have to say about it.

" "

That is all. No value added. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

[tower]

LVJ,

I had no idea you were so accomplished. Also, for some reason I thought you were very young. Must be your spirit.

Peace.

[LasVegas]

Originally posted by H2Finally:
LasVegas, while I feel that I comprehend your point, nevertheless, the analogy seemed inaccurate. A plane crash is often immediately fatal. Not so in this Hummer accident. H2Finally...I'm afraid you're proving my point. First, you only see those major headline stories where an airliner crashes and kills 175 people. There are many many other accidents of less significance with survivors that you never hear about so the analogy is sound IMO. Flying, 4 wheeling, or driving in Las Vegas is not inherently safe and the actions & judgement of the responsible operator causes death, not those that attempt to save them from their poor judgement. Should emergency services be held responsible for their actions? Absolutely. Should they be held 100% responsible for deaths caused by someone elses poor judgement because they didn't execute perfectly? Absolutely not. This is not a perfect world, but it would be a lot closer if more people would take full responsibility for their own actions. However, you are correct on the "cause" of death vs possible "saving". But their possible saving will forever be subject to debate where the reason the deaths happened appears to be absolute. In the not too distant past EMS & Rescue Services as we know them today didn't even exist and now we try to cloud our irresponsible acts with their performance.

[LasVegas]

Originally posted by tower:
LVJ,

I had no idea you were so accomplished. Also, for some reason I thought you were very young. Must be your spirit.

Peace. Does that mean we can't be friends anymore? http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Andy C]

Its funny how the blame culture works - last night I was pulling up to an intersection - I was turning right - the light just turned green as I was going to make the turn - a car came barreling through the light - and slammed into a kid in a pick up truck one block down crossing the street through a stop sign.

The kid in the speeding car ran - I tried to chase him down but he went over a wall into trees and I currently have a foot injury that prevents me from walking let alone run - so he got away.

When the cops showed up - about 5 minutes later - they blamed the kid in the pick up for the accident - stating that he had obviously pulled out in front of the car - which on the face of it would appear to have happened.

It wasnt until I stepped in and informed them that the driver of the car had nearly T boned me at the light and that he was probably doing in excess of 60mph in a 30mph zone that they started to realise that the driver of the pick up might not be at fault after all (who luckily was uninjured - the car hit the back end of his truck).

The point that I think that I am trying to make here is that we were not there - we did not witness the incident - we were not involved with the rescue attempts - it would be very interesting to actually talk to someone that was involved - and therefore we are not qualified to make any judgements or assumptions in this case.

The incident that I witnessed last night brought that home to me - one persons assumption of the cause of the outcome was completely different than the actual events that happened.

[KenP]

Posted by LV:
On a personal note I have to add that it's time people start taking responsibility for their own actions and stop blaming everyone else. The schools are full of it, the courts are full of it and so is society in general. We look in all directions to find someone we can blame for our own decisions. That is the best, most accurate thing I've read on this forum in a long time. And I find it sad that so many people in our society are unwilling to take personal responsibility for the decisions and actions they take.

[tower]

LVJ,
Originally posted by LasVegas:
Does that mean we can't be friends anymore? http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I suppose; If I have to. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[ali648]

Andy C,
I am Adam's ex girlfriend. I spent my whole life with that guy. You have no idea how refreshing it is to see another point of view on this thread. I appreciate your contribution to this discussion. You have a good point. No one was there. No one knows exactly what happened. After reading horrible comments, (especially that hummoron made), about my ex boyfriend, I couldn't help but get frustrated, angry, upset, etc. I don't necessarily put the blame on anyone other than Adam, the driver, but I too don't know what happened that night. As a normal human being, I'm angered that ppl can just talk about someone I loved so carelessly (for a lack of better words). People here are entitled to their own opinion, but I know I've been emotionally drained reading this thread. I don't even know why I am putting myself through it. So, thank you for putting a different view on the table for everyone to see. You now know at least one person agrees with you here.

[LasVegas]

Originally posted by ali648:
Andy C,
I am Adam's ex girlfriend. I spent my whole life with that guy. You have no idea how refreshing it is to see another point of view on this thread. I appreciate your contribution to this discussion. You have a good point. No one was there. No one knows exactly what happened. After reading horrible comments, (especially that hummoron made), about my ex boyfriend, I couldn't help but get frustrated, angry, upset, etc. I don't necessarily put the blame on anyone other than Adam, the driver, but I too don't know what happened that night. As a normal human being, I'm angered that ppl can just talk about someone I loved so carelessly (for a lack of better words). People here are entitled to their own opinion, but I know I've been emotionally drained reading this thread. I don't even know why I am putting myself through it. So, thank you for putting a different view on the table for everyone to see. You now know at least one person agrees with you here. Come on ali648, with the exception of a few idiots like hummoron, who's not worth your frustration & anger, I don't think anyone is suggesting Adam deserved to die. Nobody will ever know exactly what happened that night but it's pretty conclusive that Adam placed himself and his passenger in a dangerous situation with terrible results. I'm sure it wasn't intentional, but that doesn't change the outcome. The best that can come from this is for you and others to learn a valuable lesson.

[ali648]

las vegas,
i think you are basically reiterating exactly what i just wrote. hummoron is an ass...he's the one that i personally don't like (and i said exactly that), i had said that no one knows what happened, and i had also said i didn't put the blame on anyone but adam. so what is so wrong with that? why did you tell me to "come on?" just a little confused about that one.

[LasVegas]

why did you tell me to "come on?" just a little confused about that one.
Okay, I'll retract the "come on" as long as you're not including some friends posts that just stated bluntly the obvious facts and results of Adam's poor decisions. And seriously, the good that can come from Adam's death is for 4 wheelers to learn a lesson from this tragedy.

[DRTYFN]

Originally posted by ali648:
Andy C,
I am Adam's ex girlfriend. I spent my whole life with that guy.

Uhm...ok, your "whole" life?
You're not a stalker, are you?

Could you find an answer to my question on the other thread and get back to us, please?
And then feel free to go back to stalking whomever is your current stalkee.

[DRTYFN]

Originally posted by LasVegas:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">why did you tell me to "come on?" just a little confused about that one.
Okay, I'll retract the "come on" as long as you're not including some friends posts that just stated bluntly the obvious facts and results of Adam's poor decisions. And seriously, the good that can come from Adam's death is for 4 wheelers to learn a lesson from this tragedy. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't confuse her. She might stick around like a stray cat if we pay attention to her.
(Notice her stalking tendencies?)

[ali648]

drtyfn,
i'm not quite sure what your problem is. in case you aren't smart enough to comprehend my previous statement: "i spent my whole life with that guy" was supposed to mean that i knew him for a very long time, was good friends with him for 9 years, and dated him for 2 years. so fyi, i'm not a stalker, i was just simply very close with adam. and i don't think you should have any reason to believe i'd stalk you. especially not you.

and for las vegas,
i was only refering to hummoron, no other posts, so i'm glad that is cleared up.

[DRTYFN]

9 years isn't quite your whole life... unless you're 11. Yes, you are a stalker. You're stalking our normally fun & cheery board with your dark cloud and dumped ass.
BTW, why did he dump you? No action from you?

[ali648]

it's something called an exaggeration, dumbass. and don't worry, i'm finished with your threads. everyone else in here seems to have tact, but you, your the biggest ******* in here. so like i said in the other thread, you aren't worth my time.

[DRTYFN]

Originally posted by ali648:
it's something called an exaggeration, dumbass. and don't worry, i'm finished with your threads. everyone else in here seems to have tact, but you, your the biggest ******* in here. so like i said in the other thread, you aren't worth my time.

GFY!!! Please. You can take your stalking dumped ass out of here now. Buh-bye.

[DRTYFN]

Oh, and I've got more tact than you'll ever have. Patience for pathetic whining, attention-whore stalkers is another thing.

[Andy C]

I hate to say this DRTYFN - but your last couple of posts have made you look like an ******* - I have to agree with ali648 on that one - I dont see (unless I have missed something through not being bothered to read everything) how she has posted anything that would warrant being referred to as a pathetic whining attention whore stalker.

Grow up idiot

[DRTYFN]

There's a point to all of this.

She continues to drone on about this tragedy, trying desperately to draw attention to herself. Why does she need to come in here, of all places, to "vent her grief"? Does the word "stalker" mean anything to you? She hasn't offered one god damn bit of information on the subject other than to exaggerate about spending her "whole life" with the guy. Her incessant whining & attention-whoring is really pissing me off.

You want an example of a true tradegy? Go to Pirate4X4 and look up the thread where the guy's wife, that had been suffering from mental illness, disappeared only to turn up dead after committing suicide. He has 2 small children to raise by himself after loosing his wife to a much more tragic event. He doesn't continue to bring it up over and over again. And he's been a member on the god damn board for a lot f*cking longer than this carpet-bagging interloper(meaning 1) (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=interloper).

So you'll forgive me if my patience ran out days ago on these people that feel obligated to come in here to "defend the honor" of the Poor Darwin Award winner. Hell, if it were my friend, or even just an acquaintance, that had, say, wrapped his BMW around a tree, I wouldn't be going into BMW forums to cry about it for friggin days and weeks on end. Once is explainable, but this never-ending spotlight of stalking has got to end.

[Andy C]

I totally agree - I am tired of reading this - but acting like a dickhead unfortunately fuels the embers - she goes off and whines to her buddies that she was treated like **** in here - they turn up defending her and everyone else involved and we have a whole new breed of trolls to deal with for the next few weeks - and it goes on and on.

Can we drop it now please.

[Andy C]

Oh and due to my vunerable sensitivity I now have to sell my BMW because I have a mental image of you not going to BMW forums to cry about me - oh well back to bicycles again.

[Exploding People]

so
people drove their hummer into the ocean
they got stuck
then they died

am i missing something? besides blatant stupidity?

[Marcmedic]

No, I think you've found blatant stupidity simply by looking in the mirror.

[beachinJeeper]

Since there is no new information to be had, and the weather in these necks is really purdy, how bout we just go out somewhere do some responsible four wheeling, and as I am the "beer bitch", will supply some Bud Light, but as responsible four wheelers, we also must drink responsibly. And, no that does not mean, if we don't spill the beer, we are drinking responsibly!

Have Jeep will travel http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[crystalstarkey]

ali,
im sorry that what people say bother you. but you have to remember they dont know adam. this website to to talk about hummers, not adam. im not sayin that it doesnt bother me everyonce in a while, but you just have to remember the reason for the site. As for everyone else, i want to thank you for taking your time to talk about the possiblitys of what may have happened and who should be blamed.

[LasVegas]

.....i want to thank you for taking your time to talk about the possiblitys of what may have happened and who should be blamed. The driver should be blamed.

[DRTYFN]

Originally posted by crystalstarkey:
ali,
im sorry that what people say bother you. but you have to remember they dont know adam. this website to to talk about hummers, not adam. im not sayin that it doesnt bother me everyonce in a while, but you just have to remember the reason for the site. As for everyone else, i want to thank you for taking your time to talk about the possiblitys of what may have happened and who should be blamed.

Couldn't you two have said that in a PM? http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

[tower]

Whoa, there, Sparkey!

I have put many posts on this thread regarding responsibility. Nowhere did I mention blame. Two entirely different notions.

Second, Ali, if your still reading this, please understand that drty LOVES getting a rise out of people. It's a quality I find kind of endearing, but you'll miss that part of it if you can't differentiate his (sometimes harsh) ribbing from his straight talk. I think sometimes even he gets them confused. Lastly, I'm sure you're not a stalker, but just in case you might be, PM me a photo and I'll send you my contact info.

I hope this got at least a small smile out of you. We all grieve, but we all must move on.

[PARAGON]

This is bordering on absurd. This thread shows up at the top of search engines and has had over 5000 views. The content obviously interests some people so give a little more thought to your posts than some of you have.

Jonahs, I orginally ignored your post because I thought it was somewhat not applicable but now feel compelled to correct you. I don't remember anyone on here saying that the accident itself was anyone else's fault except the driver. What has been debated the most here has been the actions taken or not taken by those after the call to Onstar. With that being said let me use your airplane analogy.

Take a plane that drops from radar and is suspected of crashing. It deviated greatly from it's original flight plan but the air controller has the coordinates of the last radar contact. He tells search personnel the plane's flight path but also says that he has the last known coordinates from the last radar contact. What took place with this H2 accident is akin to the search personnel NOT taking the coordinates but going and searching around the plane's original flight path. That would raise a stink no matter what.

This is not an all or nothing affair. The driver is at fault for the accident but why would anyone think it is wrong to question the emergency personnel for a response that seems very lacking. The idea that one can't make assumptions because we weren't there is even more absurd. We have what's been reported and we have a copy of the call from the 911 center to the Rangers. Just because newspapers don't report everything all of the time and get things wrong sometimes does not mean you just walk away and forget that the system might need improvement.

The rangers blatantly said that there will be no review of their systems as they don't feel they did anything wrong. Unfortunately, litigation seems to be the only thing that will get to the truth because as you said, people will not accept their due blame or even open themselves up to it. Litigation is a catch-22. Granted there are frivilous lawsuits but there are many instances in the past where it was the only way to right a wrong.

If for one minute anyone thinks that they would not be upset and not looking for answers if they found out that there was a chance their loved one could have been saved, think again.

[LasVegas]

Paragon
by Jonahs... However, if the investigation ultimately shows that they were in fact somehow negligent in carrying out their duties in accordance with the standards set for them, they too will pay a price. And if that proves true, new standards will be set that will possibly save lives in the future. by Jonahs.... Should emergency services be held responsible for their actions? Absolutely. Should they be held 100% responsible for deaths caused by someone elses poor judgement because they didn't execute perfectly? Absolutely not. And the analogy applies 100%. There is no difference in responsibility between a pilot flying an aircraft and you or anyone else driving your H2. And I can assure you that when you board an aircraft you want to feel secure that the pilot is competent and responsible. Unfortunately that's greatly diminished these days with people and vehicles.

And yes, this thread is too long.

[PARAGON]

Fatal Assateague accident investigation continues



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jennifer Lehman
Staff Writer

(May 27, 2005) As summer quickly approaches and thousands of visitors begin flocking to the Eastern Shore, park rangers at the Assateague Island National Seashore are not planning any major changes to the rules regarding off road vehicles.
In February two people died after their 2004 Hummer overturned into the surf while driving off road at the island – an accident that has spurred an ongoing investigation.

Robert Fudge, chief of visitor services for the national seashore, said Memorial Day weekend is a popular time for visitors to drive along the beaches and no new regulations will be enforced.

“Everything remains the same in the off road vehicle zone in the way it’s marked,” Fudge said.

Meanwhile Attorney Charles L. Waechter, who currently represents families of the victims, is waiting on a lengthy report from the Department of Interior that will detail what may have happened the evening of Feb. 5.

However, the next steps the families will take “is probably premature to say,” Waechter said.

Surfers stumbled upon the body of 25-year-old Adam Starkey and his partially submerged Hummer nearly 12 hours after OnStar alerted authorities of an accident on Assateague the previous night.

OnStar, a vehicle safety device that automatically contacts emergency personnel when involved in an accident, sent a distress call to the Worcester County Sheriff’s Office just after 9:30 p.m. on Saturday, Feb. 5.

The Sheriff’s Office subsequently alerted Assateague park rangers who, according to Fudge, did a thorough search of an area where off road driving on the beach is permitted, but were unable to locate the Hummer.

On Feb. 6 the body of 24-year-old Jennifer Holly Ashe was found by a state park ranger on the beach, about four miles from Starkey’s body and a half mile south of the Ocean City inlet.

According to the state medical examiner, both victims died of hypothermia, which was complicated by injuries they received from the accident.

Over the last few months, authorities have kept a tight lid on the investigation, revealing very little about what may have happened during the 12 hour period before the two victims were found.

According to a 911 tape, somebody from inside the vehicle pushed the OnStar emergency button just after 9:30 p.m. on Feb. 5. While the OnStar operator said he heard screaming, he did not directly speak to the occupants.

“We didn’t receive a discernable response,” said Terry Sullivan, vice president of communication for OnStar. “The advisor indicated that he thought he heard a woman’s voice, but the sounds are unclear.”

The 911 tape also indicates that the OnStar operator could not find an exact location of the accident, but was able to disclose latitude and longitude coordinates.

“They were very exact coordinates,” Sullivan said.

However, Fudge said the coordinates were not an exact pinpoint of the location, but more of a general area.

“[The rangers] investigated with what they were given,” Fudge said on Feb. 23. “They looked in an area they thought was an appropriate area. It does sound like that it was very hard for them to get an exact location.”

[h2co-pilot]

http://instagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/contrib/constrector/scared.gif

[Kevin B]

I am glad to see they are not going to close any more areas down or restrict the rules. As I recall that wasn't the problem, it was communication.

[Buckeye Hummer]

I hate on-star. EVERY time I attempted to call them for directions I lost the connection, basically, get around mountains and forget about getting that stupid cell signal.

Furthermore, they employ a bunch of numbnut idiots in Detroit to answer the calls, most likely with very little education, hardly the person I want answering the phone in an emergency.

[KenP]

Without going back to that thread, it seems some of the details are stated a little differently than before. I guess I'll have to check it out in the morning.

[KenP]

Originally posted by Buckeye Hummer:
I hate on-star.

Furthermore, they employ a bunch of numbnut idiots in Detroit to answer the calls, most likely with very little education, hardly the person I want answering the phone in an emergency. It's worse than that. Those folks are in CANADA! Mostly Toronto. Hey, you know how those Northerners can be. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Big Z]

O.K. I've read the whole thread, and I'll only contribute one thing, and it's about on-star. I've had directions and connections since I've had the truck. I've used it VERY extensively in 7 different states, and very large cities. I've been AMAZED several time at how ACCURATE they are! When they can PINPOINT me and tell me the intersection I'm at, or coming to, and comments like "you just passed such and such street" TAKE IT TO THE BANK!! If they told the lat and lon of the H2, THAT'S WHERE IT WAS!!

[Aubs]

It's so sad to read this story. I spent a week on Assateague last year, and it is barren, and for the most part the lower extremeties are empty. I think this is a champion case for the "Save My Own @ss" theory (SMOA). Maybe a CB, some e-blankets, water, and a first aid kit could have been lifesavers, along with some flares, a flare gun, and bullhorn. The Coast Guard should have whipped out a chopper to scan the island and would have probably found the heat signature from the H2's engine in a matter of 1 hour from dispatch. Unfortunately, the urgency got lost somewhere. Anyway, going back to Assateague in a month, I will now make sure I have enough supplies with to SMOA in case the unforseen happens. I usually have flares, e-blankets, a large first aid kit, and a 1.5 million candlewatt cordless spotlight. I will invest in a CB now before I get down there, and maybe some off-road lights to make the usual nighttime drive out of there a lot easier to see. It is hard to see once the sun goes down, especially if a fog comes in or there's a lot of spray. It's very disorienting out there.

I realize the victims families haven't been here for over a year, but I still send my sympathies to them.

[KenP]

The tide can out out very far and there are some "holes" offshore that they could have hit. If that happened and the tide came in there was no way they'd be seen. They could have been a couple hundred yards out, underwater.

[h2co-pilot]

LET THIS THREAD DIE!!!!!:mad::D

[DRTYFN]

LET THIS THREAD DIE!!!!!:mad::D
Btt

[DRTYFN]

LET THIS THREAD DIE!!!!!:mad::D
:twak:

BTT:jump:

[r3run33]

sorry i usually just go in the h2 mod sections but i came across this and have to put my .02 in both survied the accident so it not thier fault they died !!yes they did something wrong but that does not mean they should pay for it with thier lives!! those climber in colorado they did mistakes and got recued the previous ones did mistakes but they died. as for humoron :people who smoke cigs; should they be denied health care? insane people that do all sort of stuff should they be denied help? besides the regular mebers of this forum all the others missed somethg; everyone is discussing the mistakes after the accident i hate lawyers but i hope they sued the **** out of those guys especially the fudge guy that said all those things in the begginning abouthadam speeding and all that stuff. linda i am sorry for your loss adam is probably driving his h2 in heaven over some puffy white clouds cheers+:)

[h2co-pilot]

http://smilies.vidahost.com/cwm/cwm/eek7.gif http://smilies.vidahost.com/cwm/cwm/eek7.gif http://smilies.vidahost.com/cwm/cwm/eek7.gif http://smilies.vidahost.com/cwm/cwm/eek7.gif http://smilies.vidahost.com/cwm/cwm/eek7.gif http://smilies.vidahost.com/cwm/cwm/eek7.gif http://smilies.vidahost.com/cwm/cwm/eek7.gif http://smilies.vidahost.com/cwm/cwm/eek7.gif http://smilies.vidahost.com/cwm/cwm/eek7.gif




nnNNNNoooooOOO!:crying:

[NewHummerGuy]

sorry i usually just go in the h2 mod sections but i came across this and have to put my .02 in both survied the accident so it not thier fault they died !!yes they did something wrong but that does not mean they should pay for it with thier lives!! those climber in colorado they did mistakes and got recued the previous ones did mistakes but they died. as for humoron :people who smoke cigs; should they be denied health care? insane people that do all sort of stuff should they be denied help? besides the regular mebers of this forum all the others missed somethg; everyone is discussing the mistakes after the accident i hate lawyers but i hope they sued the **** out of those guys especially the fudge guy that said all those things in the begginning abouthadam speeding and all that stuff. linda i am sorry for your loss adam is probably driving his h2 in heaven over some puffy white clouds cheers+:)


huhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh??????????????????????

Is there a period somewhere in this statement. My eyes hurt now. Thanks a lot.:rant:

[r3run33]

sorry i just keep typing; any way im going back to the mod section. ( hey i used a period:beerchug:

[KenP]

huhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh??????????????????????

Is there a period somewhere in this statement. My eyes hurt now. Thanks a lot.:rant:That's it! Next time CP and I head up that way, we're gonna stop in for a drink. I swear I was thinking the EXACT samething. Glad I read it before posting.:beerchug: