Why is a JK Wrangler So Much Better

[almostajeep]

I've read all over different sites that the JK Wrangler is hands down the best offroad vehicle out there, I know it has SFA and Doors & Roof come off, is this a Jeep Thing. Is it that there are so many upgrades & the other vehicles don't have, I see a lot of mods for hummers. I've been on different Jeep Forums and they are hard bunch of guy's to penetrate, sorta like driving a Yamaha to a Harley Event...a real no no. A very exclusive community, seems like they eat, breath, sleep Jeep. If you mention a Hummer or FJ they'll start laughing first & then they'll hammer you....not fun in their forums at all.

[CONRAD II]

The people on the Jeep forums think that Jeeps are superior because they OWN and WHEEL Jeeps. The reason that they hate HUMMERS is they don't OWN or WHEEL one. I own a HUMMER and I really don't give a sh$T what Jeep people think. As far as availability of parts, HUMMERS have an abundant amount of aftermarket parts available for owners to customize their rigs. Why would you go to a Jeep forum to talk about HUMMERS and FJ's anyway? :lame:

[jaxtrip]

Trolling in a Hummer forum, how original.

[DRTYFN]

I've read all over different sites that the JK Wrangler is hands down the best offroad vehicle out there, I know it has SFA and Doors & Roof come off, is this a Jeep Thing. Is it that there are so many upgrades & the other vehicles don't have, I see a lot of mods for hummers. I've been on different Jeep Forums and they are hard bunch of guy's to penetrate, sorta like driving a Yamaha to a Harley Event...a real no no. A very exclusive community, seems like they eat, breath, sleep Jeep. If you mention a Hummer or FJ they'll start laughing first & then they'll hammer you....not fun in their forums at all.
Jeeps...:jump:
47548

47550

47551

[almostajeep]

Trolling in a Hummer forum, how original.
I guess no one wants to answer that,......fiqures..http://www.freesmileys.org/sigs/sigs-animal-005.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)

[almostajeep]

Gee, I really wanted one of those dying beast,..until I saw this...
Surely after this, those guy's covered up H1 & H2 with masking Tape.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFgxTWivzqo&mode=related&search=

[blindzebra]

ummmm, because they got stuck? Everyone gets stuck. If you haven't gotten stuck then you need to get out of the parking lot.

[almostajeep]

ummmm, because they got stuck? Everyone gets stuck. If you haven't gotten stuck then you need to get out of the parking lot.
25 years old,,,,LOL......youngster, go get some time in life & get back to me.. http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/rolleyes005.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)
http://www.freesmileys.org/sigs/sigs-cute-002.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)

[wpage]

Hummer like nothing else!

[KenP]

Hey, is there any good wheeling in Poughkeepsie?

And is there anywhere else to work other then IBM?

Just curious if any jeepers no about this.

[wpage]

Why would you want to pull off your windshield or roof & doors when wheeling. So you can get banged up?
Then store all that stuff somewhere after you break your ass pulling it off...
And when your done put it all back on after your all coverd with road dust. I really dont get the wrangler thing? Not at all on the east coast!

[BlueTJCO]

Why would you want to pull off your windshield or roof & doors when wheeling. So you can get banged up?
Then store all that stuff somewhere after you break your ass pulling it off...
And when your done put it all back on after your all coverd with road dust. I really dont get the wrangler thing? Not at all on the east coast!


If you were wheeling on a nice day, with the top down and the windshield folded down, you would like it..............:beerchug:

[almostajeep]

If you were wheeling on a nice day, with the top down and the windshield folded down, you would like it..............:beerchug:
Yep,,it would, especially Wheeling with the King of Beers.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v647/nam676869/P9210211.jpg

[ssgharkness020147]

Hey, is there any good wheeling in Poughkeepsie?

And is there anywhere else to work other then IBM?

Just curious if any jeepers no about this.


PWN3D! :OWNED: :OWNED: :OWNED:

[wpage]

Yep,,it would, especially Wheeling wirth the King of Beers.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v647/nam676869/P9210211.jpg

If I were a pimp!

[almostajeep]

If I were a pimp!
Your Driving an H3 & your using the word PimP..:confused: :confused: :giggling: at least it's coming from a perfect source.

[wpage]

If it were that or own that Red Rider Jeepy Miracle. Yes Ill be pimpin my H3 any day in style!

[almostajeep]

If it were that or own that Red Rider Jeepy Miracle. Yes Ill be pimpin my H3 any day in style!
Like I said, coming from a perfect souce....no getting around it, the king of the Pimp Mobil's.

[Vettster]

I guess no one wants to answer that,......fiqures..http://www.freesmileys.org/sigs/sigs-animal-005.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)

I'll take a shot at answering it Almostajerk, :fdance: Oops! I meant Almostajeep.:)

Why not fill out your profile and introduce yourself to the people here?
What's your ride? Tell us a little about it.
What other forums do you belong to?
I think you will find that the majority here have had or still have Jeeps or other 4wd's at one time or the other.

Welcome to the forum.:clapping:

[blindzebra]

Um, i really wasn't trying to be a jerk when I said all trucks get stuck. However, about getting some life under my belt; I was a pro athlete for 6 years and I've wheeled more women, met more people you subsribe to magazines to read about, and seen more of the world, on somebody elses dime, than you will probably before you die. Young I am. That's a fact. Unexperienced? Please don't be another bitter midlife crisis.

[Yetti]

if you want a good laugh try driving past the Chrysler Proving grounds in Chelsea Michigan. take a look in the parking lot and see what people are driving. sure there are Jeeps, there are Dodge's & Chrysler's too. right in the middle is my H2. on the opposite side of the lot in another H2 thats almost a twin to mine. that Guy works for the "Suspension Lab", he's a buddy of mine. I work for the Impact Lab. we do offroad testing on the stuff to make sure the airbags don't fire because you hit a bump too hard. I used to drive "endurance" years ago and it was ok, but nothing like how we abuse stuff at Impact. if I could give more detail I would, but I'll keep my Hummer Thanks.

[almostajeep]

Um, i really wasn't trying to be a jerk when I said all trucks get stuck. However, about getting some life under my belt; I was a pro athlete for 6 years and I've wheeled more women, met more people you subsribe to magazines to read about, and seen more of the world, on somebody elses dime, than you will probably before you die. Young I am. That's a fact. Unexperienced? Please don't be another bitter midlife crisis.
Sorry youngster, your not even close, and thanks for the "Midlife" compliment(I'll take it). and Please don't use the Jeremiah Johnson movie line, "I've skinned more Grizz than you ever will". I'm not even going to go into where I've been & what Rice Paddy or jungle I've walked through, you don't have enough time in life yet.
Your just a Youngster, each day in life your add to your Empty Bag, don't worry, you'll get there, take your time.

[wpage]

Like its parent Daimer/Chrysler Jeep Wrangler is a dying breed. They have followed a flawed path of design and scale. Over time they will be eclipsed by other brands...

[almostajeep]

Like its parent Daimer/Chrysler Jeep Wrangler is a dying breed. They have followed a flawed path of design and scale. Over time they will be eclipsed by other brands...
Well now, I must agree again,.. looking at these pictures below, this is no way to build a JEEP & seeing how it gets so unstable with this outdated design. I feel IFS is a much better / safer design to ride on 3 wheels instead of four(4) when offroad, who needs Articulation in an H3 anyway(I see your point), the girls feel more safe..

This guy should be ashamed driving this outdated design. as can see they never changed that old crappy design from old to new..what were they thinking.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v647/nam676869/RiverRock034.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v647/nam676869/100_1922.jpg

Now this is how the Pro's do it, the heck with all 4 on the ground when crawling. They like more of a challenge.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v647/nam676869/h3flex.jpg

See how much fun this guy had with NO Articulation..He had a blast, and wants everyone to be able to see his IFS up close & personal.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v647/nam676869/hummer2belly2.jpg

So if I was DM/JEEP I would definitely change their Design..

[RazM]

People who place so much importance on solid axles amuse me, but you'll be left in the dust anyway. Most in the field have already figured out that solid axle tech has reached a wall, and that independent suspension solutions are the only logical future.

Besides, it takes bigger balls to take an IFS rig on a trail, feeling every climb/descend is a great thrill, something you solid axle whores just don't get. Continue "floating" over those boulders, not much fun in never having your body roll an inch...

You'd probably cry if you took any HUMMER out on the trail, your Jeep has made you less of a man :fdance:

[almostajeep]

People who place so much importance on solid axles amuse me, but you'll be left in the dust anyway. Most in the field have already figured out that solid axle tech has reached a wall, and that independent suspension solutions are the only logical future.

Besides, it takes bigger balls to take an IFS rig on a trail, feeling every climb/descend is a great thrill, something you solid axle whores just don't get. Continue "floating" over those boulders, not much fun in never having your body roll an inch...

You'd probably cry if you took any HUMMER out on the trail, your Jeep has made you less of a man :fdance:
Date of Birth:
December 1, 1981
Age:
26 WoW!...:clapping:
Location:
Toronto, Ontario, Canada

[RazM]

Date of Birth:
December 1, 1981
Age:
26 WoW!...:clapping:
Location:
Toronto, Ontario, Canada

We're talking about a hobby in which a majority are between 18 - 35... and you're knocking people down because of their age? How retarded are you?

More and more it's clear, the only wheeling you do is when you do groceries at your local Wal-Mart. Typical trailer trash

I hear Wal-Mart has a 50% off special on Fixodent, better hurry on there!

[almostajeep]

We're talking about a hobby in which a majority are between 18 - 35... and you're knocking people down because of their age? How retarded are you?

More and more it's clear, the only wheeling you do is when you do groceries at your local Wal-Mart. Typical trailer trash

I hear Wal-Mart has a 50% off special on Fixodent, better hurry on there!

http://www.freesmileys.org/sigs/sigs-cute-002.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org) I truley understand why you feel this way.. Child, you will out grow the trash talk..

[RazM]

http://www.freesmileys.org/sigs/sigs-cute-002.gif (http://http://www.freesmileys.org/sigs/sigs-cute-002.gif) I truley understand why you feel this way.. Child, you will out grow the trash talk..

Hurry now, you'll run into the lines at the express lane :notallthere:

[wpage]

If you like a 1930's design that just degenerated than stick with the Jeep. The original willy's design was a breakthrough from the mil spec. The early versions were not bad but lately backward...

[RuggedH2]

This is a stupid argument.

Jeeps are good off road, and they can be made incredible off road. If wheeling the very hardest trails (rocks) is the test......solid axles are still the standard. There are reasons for this.

Compromise is true everywhere in life. If you want an incredible off road rig, you will sacrifice road drive ability. Death-wobble, cornering, center of gravity, lockers grabbing on pavement, etc. etc.

Hummers do what they do well right off the showroom floor. They can tackle 90+ percent of Moab's trails - stock. They can drive there and back and run the trails in comfort. It is still a matter of compromise.....if off road ability is paramount......the H1 will outperform the other Hummers, but will not be as comfortable as a daily driver.

I just spent a week wheeling with a modified JK. I took my truck on every trail and every line he did. He has some advantages, for instance he was able to see more than I can, and my rig is much heavier than his, but my H2 did everything his rig did, on some pretty difficult trails.

When it comes to the most difficult rock trails though, the solid axle still has the advantage......strength and articulation are the prime ones.

Neither of us had to tow our rigs down, but on the drive home....the Hummer out performed the Jeep in comfort, speed, hill climbing, passing, etc, etc.

We had a blast running the two different rigs together.

[RuggedH2]

Also,

If I was going to go all out on a rock climbing 4x4.......why start with a Jeep at all? The Jeep also had to be built originally, for use on the road also.

I would skip the all the weight B.S. and get a tube buggy to tow with my H2.

This one was for sale recently for just over $20,000. The tube frame was welded by a welding instructor at a tech school and the vehicle has twice what he's asking for it invested in the parts.

I have no doubt that it will outperform most Jeeps for less money.

47789

47790

[wpage]

Also,

If I was going to go all out on a rock climbing 4x4.......why start with a Jeep at all? The Jeep also had to be built originally, for use on the road also.

I would skip the all the weight B.S. and get a tube buggy to tow with my H2.

This one was for sale recently for just over $20,000. The tube frame was welded by a welding instructor at a tech school and the vehicle has twice what he's asking for it invested in the parts.

I have no doubt that it will outperform most Jeeps for less money.

47789

47790

That is one cool machine for off road...
The balance between having the best of both worlds is where the distinctions get tough!

The JK wrangler fits a narrow application that is passe. It may be better for some really old nostalgic folks who are stuck in the past.

That tube machine is the other end of the spectrum. It wouldn't do much here in the muddy northeast!

[RuggedH2]

Wpage,

The Unlimited JK is a good rig. It wheels very well and in my opinion has the ultimate wheelbase for Moab. My H2 was hanging a tire over soft cliff edges too many times for my taste. :giggling: Wouldn't trade it though.

The JK is a solid rig all around. It wheels very well and can be made outstanding, it rides much better on the road than previous Wranglers. It is very serious competition for the H3.

It is not as luxurious or comfortable as the H3. It is not as refined on the road.

The H3 can come close to the off road ability, but IMO will not be able to match the Rubicon, all else being equal. The upcoming H3 front locker will help.....but in my opinion the articulation available with the Jeep will keep it ahead off road. Jeeps after-market is far larger and more diverse than the Hummers is also.

So what? Most people out there will never need all the ability that is already offered by either vehicle.

The Unlimited existed only as a Jeep lovers fantasy until the H3 came along, after the Unlimited Rubicon was built, Hummer added a cast iron front differential and locker to the H3.

The competition between these companies is very good for the consumers of both brands. :D I want them to build the H4 (the right way ;)).

For the record, many Jeepers have been surprised by what the Hummers can actually do......most have heard too much B.S........that they believe.

[RuggedH2]

Also, showing pics of either vehicle rolled, broken or pimped out proves nothing.

They all can be subjected to that.

47791

47792

[RuggedH2]

Here is a Rubicon with paper thin tires on big blingy wheels towing his off road rig. :giggling:

That sh!t can happen to any decent vehicle......there is no limit to the stupidity out there. :fdance:

47793

[BigPoppa1411]

Imo who cares which vehicle can do what better than the other? I bought my H3 because I like how it looked, love how it rides and could afford it. I like the look of some Jeeps also, especially the really well moded ones. But I get sick and tired of hearing about how Jeep is better or Hummer is better. Its been that way with all kinds of Vechicle Manufacturers. Look at Ford is better than Chevy, or Bmw is better than Mercedes etc. etc.
I think if you like your ride and are proud of its capabilities than great, I just cant see wasting my time and energy being petty about which is better and why.
:soapbox:
Its all about having fun on the trail and being safe that matters to me.:)

[SnakeH2]

Imo who cares which vehicle can do what better than the other? I bought my H3 because I like how it looked, love how it rides and could afford it. I like the look of some Jeeps also, especially the really well moded ones. But I get sick and tired of hearing about how Jeep is better or Hummer is better. Its been that way with all kinds of Vechicle Manufacturers. Look at Ford is better than Chevy, or Bmw is better than Mercedes etc. etc.
I think if you like your ride and are proud of its capabilities than great, I just cant see wasting my time and energy being petty about which is better and why.
:soapbox:
Its all about having fun on the trail and being safe that matters to me.:)

BMW...way better.:fdance:

[wpage]

"My born agains are better than yours" David Koresh Jeep Lover!

[almostajeep]

BMW...way better.:fdance:

Mercedes ANYDAY...:fdance: oh no, here we go again. ?LOL
Give me a JEEP, H3, or FJ, they all Wheel great.

[CO Hummer]

I just spent a week wheeling with a modified JK. I took my truck on every trail and every line he did. He has some advantages, for instance he was able to see more than I can, and my rig is much heavier than his, but my H2 did everything his rig did, on some pretty difficult trails.

There is a caveat here. You arguement holds the logical fallacy that because you you both completed the trails together, both rigs are equally capable. That is simply not true. In reality, the JK will do a lot more than the H2 off-road and the JK could do a lot tougher trails than two drove on.

I drove my H2 through Moab on 7 separate trips. I became very comfortable driving it and knew it inside and out. This year I drove my modified JK thru Moab and it walked everything like it was nothing. I am now looking for new trails to do (Pritchett, BFE, Rusty Nail, etc) because the JK is so capable it's almost boring doing something like GS.

When I ran GS this year I did a lot of things that I could not historically get my H2 to do (The wall - left side, Golden Stairs - slow crawl instead of momentum lurch, Double Whammy (never tried in H2). Almost everything was dead simple easy in the JK. It's simply a more capable off-road rig. I'm not saying it's a "better" rig because that such a stupid idea I'm not going to go there. But it's is more capable off road when you lift if and get some meats on it.

I believe you have to drive both rigs yourself to actually have a perpective on which rig is better offroad. That elminates differences in driver capability.

Finally, I'm not saying the H2 is not good offroad. It is, and I've take mine all over the place and have done things I couldn't believe were possible with such a big rig. I do miss the interior space, the nice quiet road ride, and the power........especially the power.

[RuggedH2]

There is a caveat here. You arguement holds the logical fallacy that because you you both completed the trails together, both rigs are equally capable. That is simply not true. In reality, the JK will do a lot more than the H2 off-road and the JK could do a lot tougher trails than two drove on.


CO,

I realize what you are saying. I've seen it too. The thing is....on those trails, the two different rigs kept the same pace and we took the same lines. All the trails we ran are listed among the top 10 hardest in Moab.

You should be able to run Pritchett and Rusty Nail, but even a lifted and locked JK will be pushing their limits there.

How many trails do you think the JK opened up to you in the Moab area? Five more? Seven? The extra trails available to you now also include the substantial risk of breakage. Most people I know that run those trails....tow their rigs. ;)

How many people out there really wheel their rigs this hard? Hell almost everyone I know thinks I'm crazy for doing this to an H2. :giggling:

I used to consider buying some Franken-fawk rig to beat the crap out of in Moab.

I do like the JK's. There is much to like, not enough to trade my H2 though. This has to be a one rig for everything situation for me, and the Hummer still has more positives than the JK in my situation.

I was serious about the buggy though. I may be running Pritchett with you guys.......Hell, If I'm gonna tow it anyway.

[CO Hummer]

CO,

I realize what you are saying. I've seen it too. The thing is....on those trails, the two different rigs kept the same pace and we took the same lines. All the trails we ran are listed among the top 10 hardest in Moab.

You should be able to run Pritchett and Rusty Nail, but even a lifted and locked JK will be pushing their limits there.

How many trails do you think the JK opened up to you in the Moab area? Five more? Seven? The extra trails available to you now also include the substantial risk of breakage. Most people I know that run those trails....tow their rigs. ;)

How many people out there really wheel their rigs this hard? Hell almost everyone I know thinks I'm crazy for doing this to an H2. :giggling:

I used to consider buying some Franken-fawk rig to beat the crap out of in Moab.

I do like the JK's. There is much to like, not enough to trade my H2 though. This has to be a one rig for everything situation for me, and the Hummer still has more positives than the JK in my situation.

I was serious about the buggy though. I may be running Pritchett with you guys.......Hell, If I'm gonna tow it anyway.

We ran BTR this year and it was a piece of cake. I turned away on that trail when I started out on it in my H2.

Not sure how many more trails it opens up. I'm just starting to look into it. I would think at least a dozen. But it will be fun finding more trails. I've run Hells, GS, etc so many times that's it's getting routine.

I don't buy for a second your argument that if you want to do harder trails - get a buggy. The whole thing is a continuum of user preferences for offroad vs comfort. It's not H2 (for both) and Buggy for off-road only. The JK bridges that gap between those two and that's were some people with a preference for more hardcore and less comfort will go. I did.

If I take you arguement the other way I'd end up saying "If you want more comfort, why don't you just buy a Suburban"? It's a flawed argument.

And, doing harder trails in a JK is no more risk for damage that GS in an H2. The JK is built for harder trails and thus is an equivalent risk, not more.

[RuggedH2]

We ran BTR this year and it was a piece of cake. I turned away on that trail when I started out on it in my H2.

Not sure how many more trails it opens up. I'm just starting to look into it. I would think at least a dozen. But it will be fun finding more trails. I've run Hells, GS, etc so many times that's it's getting routine.

I don't buy for a second your argument that if you want to do harder trails - get a buggy. The whole thing is a continuum of user preferences for offroad vs comfort. It's not H2 (for both) and Buggy for off-road only. The JK bridges that gap between those two and that's were some people with a preference for more hardcore and less comfort will go. I did.

If I take you arguement the other way I'd end up saying "If you want more comfort, why don't you just buy a Suburban"? It's a flawed argument.

And, doing harder trails in a JK is no more risk for damage that GS in an H2. The JK is built for harder trails and thus is an equivalent risk, not more.

Hey CO,

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but to me your tone sounds like you are taking my opinions personally.

Dude......I like the JK's......look at WPage's comments. :giggling:

I have driven the JK....actually a few different ones, both on the road and off.

As far as risk goes, I know several people with bad-ass rigs that I would guess are more capable than where your JK is now.......that have seriously broken on Pritchett. They were not able to fix on the trail, and had to be dragged/winched out by others, and towed home. I know two people that rolled TJ's on Rusty Nail. I would guess the majority of the new trails opened up to you exist in area BFE, and I have yet to see a JK on Helldorado, although I expect that soon one will put out footage.

Alan for me, the H2 fits my needs. I take my family with me wheeling as often as not, 3 kids under 12 and my little girl is in a car seat. They were forced out of the truck almost the entire trail on Moab Rim. This rig does what I need it to do now. I snowboard a lot in the winter and my kids and I have a ton of gear (it all fits in the two).

If you read what I wrote, I think we are saying many of the same things.

Everyone makes choices based on their own circumstances. For me, it comes down to toys and the funds available. I already have a motorcycle worth more than the buggy I posted above. If I was going to run the Helldorado type trails, I would prefer a buggy. Like I said if I'm towing it anyway.......why not?

[CO Hummer]

Hey CO,

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but to me your tone sounds like you are taking my opinions personally.

Dude......I like the JK's......look at WPage's comments. :giggling:

I have driven the JK....actually a few different ones, both on the road and off.

As far as risk goes, I know several people with bad-ass rigs that I would guess are more capable than where your JK is now.......that have seriously broken on Pritchett. They were not able to fix on the trail, and had to be dragged/winched out by others, and towed home. I know two people that rolled TJ's on Rusty Nail. I would guess the majority of the new trails opened up to you exist in area BFE, and I have yet to see a JK on Helldorado, although I expect that soon one will put out footage.

Alan for me, the H2 fits my needs. I take my family with me wheeling as often as not, 3 kids under 12 and my little girl is in a car seat. They were forced out of the truck almost the entire trail on Moab Rim. This rig does what I need it to do now. I snowboard a lot in the winter and my kids and I have a ton of gear (it all fits in the two).

If you read what I wrote, I think we are saying many of the same things.

Everyone makes choices based on their own circumstances. For me, it comes down to toys and the funds available. I already have a motorcycle worth more than the buggy I posted above. If I was going to run the Helldorado type trails, I would prefer a buggy. Like I said if I'm towing it anyway.......why not?

I'm not taking your comments personally at all. You are taking my response personally, I think. I'm only commenting on some of the flawed logic. You're a good guy, and I know that. So I'm just commenting since I have a good perspective having owned and driven both rigs on a hard core trail.

I am pointing out that two rigs "completing" the same trail does not mean they are equally capable. I've seen guys with Samurais do GS. Does that mean a Suzuki is as capable as an H2? No way. That, again, would be totally flawed logic. It's a tough trail for a Samurai, and likely for breakage. It's not for an H2 or a JK.

Also...the JK you drove with, I think, is a Sahara with D30s on it. That's not the same as a lifted Rubi with Dana 44s.

Every trail in Moab has caused damage for every single kind of vehicle. I don't really think that's a good barometer. GS is tough for a Samurai. Potato Salad is tough for an H2. Pritchett is tough for a Rubi (assumed, but we'll see), etc. It's all about the relative difficulty compared to the capability of your rig offroad.

Add to that driver skill as well. H2s are made for Hell's revenge. They kill it like it's nothing. But I've seen a dumb-ass H2 drivers like Tower almost kill themselves. :D :D :D

As for Helldorado.......I don't think so for a JK - not Upper. Maybe lower though. I'm interested in trying the lower section.

[CO Hummer]

One of the other reasons I got my JK is that my PRIMARY use for it is wheeling. I drive a Suburban for daily in-town driving. It's a luxury liner compared to the JK and loaded with power.

In the future I'm likely to be chopping up my JK and it will become more and more of a rock buggy. I love to fabricate as a hobby and I have long term plans for a beefy cage, larger tires, etc, etc.

But for now, the suckiness of the JK on the highway (actually, it's not as bad as I'm making it sound) is not of any concern for me. When I go skiing - I take the Burb. When I wanna wheel, I take the JK. I can do 5 hours trips to Moab in the JK and it's not that bad. But I'll not often drive the JK on 1000 mile trips. For that matter, I had stopped taking my H2 on 1000 mile trips because we do those in my Honda Pilot, the ultimate road SUV.

[RuggedH2]

I'm not taking your comments personally at all. You are taking my response personally, I think. I'm only commenting on some of the flawed logic. You're a good guy, and I know that. So I'm just commenting since I have a good perspective having owned and driven both rigs on a hard core trail.

I am pointing out that two rigs "completing" the same trail does not mean they are equally capable. I've seen guys with Samurais do GS. Does that mean a Suzuki is as capable as an H2? No way. That, again, would be totally flawed logic. It's a tough trail for a Samurai, and likely for breakage. It's not for an H2 or a JK.

Also...the JK you drove with, I think, is a Sahara with D30s on it. That's not the same as a lifted Rubi with Dana 44s.

Every trail in Moab has caused damage for every single kind of vehicle. I don't really think that's a good barometer. GS is tough for a Samurai. Potato Salad is tough for an H2. Pritchett is tough for a Rubi (assumed, but we'll see), etc. It's all about the relative difficulty compared to the capability of your rig offroad.

Add to that driver skill as well. H2s are made for Hell's revenge. They kill it like it's nothing. But I've seen a dumb-ass H2 drivers like Tower almost kill themselves. :D :D :D

As for Helldorado.......I don't think so for a JK - not Upper. Maybe lower though. I'm interested in trying the lower section.

I see what you are saying.......and I agree.

My point was.......on those trails, there was no measurable difference in ability, both rigs were capable. I realize that my friends JK could do more, but the trails did not require more, so both ran more or less equal.

The Jeep my friend traded in for his JK was locked front and rear with Dana 44's on both axles with 4.88's. I ran Poison Spider with a locked custom TJ with Dana 60's and four links. He didn't do anything I couldn't do in my H3. That doesn't mean that he couldn't on a harder trail.

However he did roll it on Rusty Nail.

[CO Hummer]

However he did roll it on Rusty Nail.

You got any pics or more info? That trail is the next one we want to do. I'm interest in which obstacle he did that on. The normal trail or was he playing off on the side? Maybe the "no left turn" obstacle?



Oh......and don't bring the H3s into this. :D Our comparison about H2 vs JK is a good discussion. But the H3 doesn't hold a candle to the H2 off road, so it's a moot point. That said, I haven't seen the H3 with the front locker, big engine, and cast iron diff. But you're point about SFA vs IFS is still relevant there!

[RuggedH2]

I wasn't with him when he rolled, I just heard about it through friends.

Chrysler is supposedly going to offer Dana 60's that bolt right on the JK for less money than many of the aftermarket suppliers.

My friend bought a Sahara on purpose, because he didn't like the E-lockers and plans to upgrade the axles, gears, and add ARB's instead. He put a 4" Terra Flex lift on already and is considering the 60's and an Atlas eventually.

I think I get what you have been saying. I never meant to imply that the H2 was as capable as the JK straight across. My point was for the trails I want to run (risk versus reward) the H2 does everything I need. If I get to the point where the risk equals towing a vehicle down....then I will buy a buggy (a good one someone else already invested retail price in parts :D).

The trails we have already run in Moab put us in the top percentage of hard off road trails in the country now....you just want to run the next level, and that level does increase the risk. You'll be towing that thing behind the Burb soon. :giggling: :cool:

[CO Hummer]

I think I get what you have been saying. I never meant to imply that the H2 was as capable as the JK straight across. My point was for the trails I want to run (risk versus reward) the H2 does everything I need. If I get to the point where the risk equals towing a vehicle down....then I will buy a buggy (a good one someone else already invested retail price in parts :D).

Yup. I know where you are with that. I was in the exact same mode as you are now for 5 years. I've simply changed my interest into wheeling something that that's smaller, lighter, and more hard core. Less focus on comfort, more on offroad. But not to the point of buggydome......yet. :D It's not "better" by any objective standard. It's just different, and subjective. In Colorado, wheeling is not like Moab. There are tons of skinny trails, shelf roads, and trees below 11,000 feet. One of the things I got tired of was having a perfectly capably H2, but being slowed down for stupid things like fitting between trees!

[ROX]

I think you guys should just get an H1 It's nothing like either of those and it's a BLAST on the trails! Mine came with a chainsaw. ;) :D I think I'll have it painted to match the brush guard and mount it there. What do you think?

[RuggedH2]

Love the sig line Rox!

Post some pics on the Moab pic thread in the H2 section, will ya?

I couldn't believe that under those nice seats and behind that premium dash.....how much that Alpha rig of yours felt like the Humvees I got to drive for the government. :D

[wpage]

I think I get what you have been saying. I never meant to imply that the H2 was as capable as the JK straight across. My point was for the trails I want to run (risk versus reward) the H2 does everything I need. If I get to the point where the risk equals towing a vehicle down....then I will buy a buggy (a good one someone else already invested retail price in parts :D).

You should consider a H3!

[CO Hummer]

If I get to the point where the risk equals towing a vehicle down....then I will buy a buggy (a good one someone else already invested retail price in parts :D).

You should consider a H3!

LOL. Any trail in Moab runs the risk of towing a vehicle down. I've spent many hours towing H3s adn H2s down the trail. That's an idiotic statement.

Hey Neo, Bebe, Adam, Ken.......You should go buy buggies! :clapping:

Oh yeah, Lyn......Trade in that H1. You got towed off a trail so you need to get a buggy too. :giggling:

[ROX]

LOL

Oh yeah, Lyn......Trade in that H1. You got towed off a trail so you need to get a buggy too. :giggling:Hey! Nothing broke that was even related to wheeling. K? It's the first time I've ever been towed off the trail, (inmoab) and! I looked cool too!:fdance: :D

If I was getting a buggy, I'd get this one anyway.
scorpion (http://http://www.scorpion4x4.com/) not some busted up Jeep that we piece together before and after every trip....:D Where would I put all my shtuff?:confused: :confused: Tractor trailer?

[ROX]

I couldn't believe that under those nice seats and behind that premium dash.....how much that Alpha rig of yours felt like the Humvees I got to drive for the government. :DAlpha! K' chow! Funny how you haven't mentioned how cool the JK interior is.........:grouphug:

[RuggedH2]

WPage,

Where do you wheel? For me it is Moab, mountains and rocks. My judgment is based on what I wheel.

My judgments are based on what I have seen and learned.

Solid axles are stronger, they will take more punishment. They do articulate more which can mean more traction. The Jeeps weigh significantly less which means less load on the moving parts to lift. Visibility is greater in the Jeeps than in the larger Hummers. Stronger, lighter, and smaller with more articulation.

Most of the reasons I like buggies over Jeeps, are the same reasons Jeeps have over Hummers (in rocks). That doesn't mean that Hummers are not capable, they are. It does mean that Hummers require spotters more. It is also a lot easier to change a broken half-shaft on a Hummer than to change a broken axle on a Jeep. I carry a spare half shaft in my H2, I don't think many Jeepers carry around spare axles.

I have an H3 also, I have wheeled it on some damn hard trails. I have wheeled several difficult trails with H3's (with drivers that really push their rigs and have the experience to do it). I have wheeled both Hummers on tough trails.

My H2 is lifted with 38" tall tires.....in my opinion it will outperform my H3 with 35's.

I have a front locker that will be installed this summer with new 4.56 gears. I have built up the steering system to deal with the larger tires, and I also have been talking to a custom fab place about modifying the rear suspension so the damn trailing arms don't hang down and get hung up.

I'm not trying to insult you here, it's not personal, it just is - how it is. How I feel about it doesn't change it. I wouldn't trade my Hummers for Jeeps, but to say my H2 is ready to run Pritchett Canyon is not right. It would require an H1 (or two of them) to drag me out if it broke, and the odds are that it would break. I have seen a JK with only a lift and 35's run Pritchett.

If you look at the premier rock crawlers, they all have solid axles. I was working much harder than my friend in Moab to get past the same obstacles......width, visability, suspension.

On the other hand, it was a good thing for him that I was there because he required a safety strap coming down Moab Rim after taking out a brake line, and I winched him off a monster boulder that was laying on his front drive shaft inches from his oil pan on Strike Ravine.

It does require a better driver to wheel a Hummer well on the same trails. Like COHummer said, one is not better, just different.

I'm happy with my Hummers, but I am objective.

[RuggedH2]

LOL. Any trail in Moab runs the risk of towing a vehicle down. I've spent many hours towing H3s adn H2s down the trail. That's an idiotic statement.

Hey Neo, Bebe, Adam, Ken.......You should go buy buggies! :clapping:

Oh yeah, Lyn......Trade in that H1. You got towed off a trail so you need to get a buggy too. :giggling:

The point I was originally trying to make......was that if I was going to tow a rig "down to Moab", I might as well bring a lightweight tube buggy. If I break that, at least I just have to get it back to the trailer - to get it home. If I was going to have a strictly rock rig, why not get one with all the advantages, for less money?

[wpage]

[QUOTE=CO Hummer]LOL. Any trail in Moab runs the risk of towing a vehicle down. I've spent many hours towing H3s adn H2s down the trail. That's an idiotic statement.

Yes what you said!

Here in the East things are a little different. We mean what we say and usually we are on our own in the woods and the mud...

[RuggedH2]

OK.......what does this mean?

With the advent of the current shift. Source of advent challemnge...
Watch your assests....,
Keep it short to your short hairs...:drama:
Or this?

"My born agains are better than yours" David Koresh Jeep Lover!
;)

Come on dude, the statement above was mis-interpreted.

[wpage]

Your right...
I will stop posting after cocktail hour peace brother:grouphug:

[Badace]

Here is a Rubicon with paper thin tires on big blingy wheels towing his off road rig. :giggling:

That sh!t can happen to any decent vehicle......there is no limit to the stupidity out there. :fdance:

47793

That there is HIIIlarious. What a douchbag.

[BigPoppa1411]

:iagree:

[almostajeep]

:iagree:
But why is it so much better,....????? I don't know, I thought the people that have the second place vehicle would know... Oh wait, the FJ might be second, it also has IFS....

[Badace]

But why is it so much better,....????? I don't know, I thought the people that have the second place vehicle would know... Oh wait, the FJ might be second, it also has IFS....


I like you almostajeep. You remind me of that slow kid in your kids class. Nobody wants to hang out with him and you start talking to him to make him feel important. But deep in your heart, you always know he's going to grow up and become a D-Bag. But you say to yourself, these kids should not be mean to this kid because he is different. But then here I am on a forum, kicking a poor little slow person right in the balls. That is you. It's ok champ. Don't let these/us folks be mean to you. You can do it. But I know, you really can't.

[Badace]

But why is it so much better,....????? I don't know, I thought the people that have the second place vehicle would know... Oh wait, the FJ might be second, it also has IFS....


I like you almostajeep. You remind me of that slow kid in your kids class. Nobody wants to hang out with him and you start talking to him to make him feel important. But deep in your heart, you always know he's going to grow up and become a D-Bag. But you say to yourself, these kids should not be mean to this kid because he is different. But then here I am on a forum, kicking a poor little slow person right in the balls. That is you. It's ok champ. Don't let these/us folks be mean to you. You can do it. But I know, you really can't.