Supercharger Vs Headers

[Centerfire]

I was discussing adding a supercharger to my H2 with Jan D from Realwheels. He brought up a conversion with the people from Balanger Headers (Not sure I spelled correctly). They told him of a test between an H2 with a supercharger and onw with the Balanger Headers(sp). They ran duplicate Numbers in the quarter mile. This is all the info I have.. Anybody else have more.
We also discussed exhausts, as they are now selling Corsa.. Realwheel tested Gibson, Borla, Corsa and a couple others on their Yellow H2 for the SEMA show. They found that the Corsa had the best performance and sound of all tested.

Mike

[Centerfire]

I was discussing adding a supercharger to my H2 with Jan D from Realwheels. He brought up a conversion with the people from Balanger Headers (Not sure I spelled correctly). They told him of a test between an H2 with a supercharger and onw with the Balanger Headers(sp). They ran duplicate Numbers in the quarter mile. This is all the info I have.. Anybody else have more.
We also discussed exhausts, as they are now selling Corsa.. Realwheel tested Gibson, Borla, Corsa and a couple others on their Yellow H2 for the SEMA show. They found that the Corsa had the best performance and sound of all tested.

Mike

[Patriot]

I find it hard to believe that "headers" can add the same HP as a supercharger. If that's the case...he could charge $1500.00 for them and would have lines around the block because it would be half the price of the supercharger.

I think you were fed a line of bull...

[H2 Bill]

I find it hard to believe too. Did he say what kind of SC it was?

2003 H2 Hummer, Yellow,Polished Whipple Supercharged, Edelbrock ceramics, catback,18" Ambush w/mudders,lots of goodies!
Y2K Corvette Millennium Yellow Convert/Blk/Blk, B&B headers, B&B Tri-Flo's, H-Tech MAG,GMS MAF, RM Racing TwinFlow.
1994 Chev 454 Suburban, Blown, Doug Thorley
1970 Trans Am, balanced, blue printed, Hooker ceramics

www.4swimwear.com (http://www.4swimwear.com)

[Centerfire]

Yep.. me too.. I'm just going by what I was told by the gentleman at Realwheels.. I'm not mechanically inclined.. I will email him when I get a chance, perhaps he can send me some detailed info..

Mike

[Centerfire]

Bill

Have you had any difficulties with your H2 since it was SC. I have a Vortech on my 99 Sub and have a few issues.. I have been toying with idea of adding one to my H2. Was looking at Lingenfelter due to their rep and they are only 1.5 hrs away.

Thanks
Mike<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by H2 Bill:
I find it hard to believe too. Did he say what kind of SC it was?

2003 H2 Hummer, Yellow,Polished Whipple Supercharged, Edelbrock ceramics, catback,18" Ambush w/mudders,lots of goodies!
Y2K Corvette Millennium Yellow Convert/Blk/Blk, B&B headers, B&B Tri-Flo's, H-Tech MAG,GMS MAF, RM Racing TwinFlow.
1994 Chev 454 Suburban, Blown, Doug Thorley
1970 Trans Am, balanced, blue printed, Hooker ceramics

http://www.4swimwear.com<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[HummMe]

It is possible to run the same times, but only from driver error. If this statement is true the forced induction H2 must have been driven like crap. Probably a bad launch, spinning tires, possible bad computer program.

[H2 Bill]

Hey Mike,
It runs like a dream. I hate to repeat info but mine was one of the first to have the Whipple installed and I had to have custom tuning done. Now you can get the Whipple programmer to eliminate the torque management, etc. and you shouldn't have any problems. The increase in power makes a huge improvement in the performance both on and off road. It's now a pleasure to drive on long trips esp. in the mountains.

[KenP]

Bill, I do not think it matters what kind of SC it was. I have been racing for too many years and have seen too many false claims to believe garbage like that.

Mike, you know my response. Like Bill, mine was one of the first done by LPE (#4, I believe). They stand by their products...still. Just talked to Tim Dyer today and will be speaking with him again tommorrow about some adjustments they need to come here and fix. Just need to set up the time.

Black Lingenfelter Lux

[Centerfire]

Ken P.

You mentioned a couple of times that they have to come out and make some adjutments. What kind of adjustments are needed.. I really am wanting to keep the reliablity of stock , yet still have the power from a SC.. However I do no like to mess with stuff. Just put on an drive, not wanting to have to tinker with it all the time.. Is having to tinker with the SC a common problem " Just the nature of the Beast?".

Thanks

Mike

[Bad Dawg]

I also find it hard to believe that headers can run as strong as a super charger, however, to my amazement when we were fine tuning our race engine on the dyno we saw a 100hp difference between the longer "shop" headers and the shorter modular custom headers built for the engine and rig. When we lengthened the center section of the custom headers by 6" we gained back most of the horsepower. The shop headers were perfect flow pipes, not like the custom ones built to go around steering shafts and chassis rails. The point here is that don't underestimate the difference a good freeflowing header can make.

You can never have enough horsepower! Yellow LUX, Airforce intake, stainless headers and exhaust, Gobi rack and ladder, roof mounted off road lights, full wrap brush guard, rear light guards, outside tire carrier, Rancho 4" suspension lift, Ultra "EN4CER" 17x9 wheels, Goodyear 37/12.50R17 MT/R tires, removed side-step bars, 9.5ti warn multi-mount winch.

[KenP]

Mike, all they have to do is reprogram the computer. The truck computer thinks the accelerator is at a position something less than WOT when I mash it. Which is funny because all four tires spin. That's it. No other problems.

With all the problems LPE had the fix has been delayed, that is why it has been mentioned too many times. I should find out today when Graham is coming down here. However, if I get tired of waiting I may head up there. If I do I will let you know.

Black Lingenfelter Lux

[KenP]

Bad Dawg, I think the point here, as I am sure you know, is headers alone will not make comparable HP increases. However, if you have a heavily modified vehicle and test it, then add headers, where you previously had none, you will surely see significant gains. The engine can now expell the gases more effeciently.

Take, for example, a Nextel Cup car and put standard exhaust manifolds on it and run the car. Then add the headers. Huge difference I would suspect. Probably a huge percentage gain.

Black Lingenfelter Lux

[Centerfire]

Ken

Thanks for info, after experience with my 99 Sub I am just a little hesitant to add to H2.

Would like to drive one to see the difference.

Mike

[Bad Dawg]

KenP-
You're right. Not knowing the other modifications to the rig Centerfire was talking about it's hard to know what was really going on. I would guess that if the only mods were bolting on the supercharger and bolting on a set of headers I would think that the supercharger would blow the doors off the header rig. My comment was just to point out the only change made to my engine on the dyno was the header change and it REALLY surprised me (and depressed me because of the $2500 I spent on the custom headers).

You can never have enough horsepower! Yellow LUX, Airforce intake, stainless headers and exhaust, Gobi rack and ladder, roof mounted off road lights, full wrap brush guard, rear light guards, outside tire carrier, Rancho 4" suspension lift, Ultra "EN4CER" 17x9 wheels, Goodyear 37/12.50R17 MT/R tires, removed side-step bars, 9.5ti warn multi-mount winch.

[AZhummer]

Centerfire, I went to the Balenger factory here in Phoenix and spoke with the owner. He was telling me the same thing. I did not let on that I was a motorhead. He said the same thing that you heard. I said what was your criterium for your claims, he said ET. I said that there was a 4 wheel dyno in town and if he had the teat h2 on that. He said dyno, smyno, I use ET at the track. Is that the strangest thing you have ever heard. How could he possible launch the same way every time??? Wind track temp steering all play factors in et. He said this with a straight face. HA this guy sells the headers to Lund Cadilac for 1575 each and Lund chargers 2700 installed. People here in AZ are buying them like sheep. I have long tube headers on my H2 along with an volant intake and bassini exhaust, reflash with the diablo pretator. My h2 runs great but I know a super charger would do better in every speed range.
The boys at balenger live in a dream world. BTW my ceramic long tubes are from AZ Speed & Marine. 625 good guy price, installed by me. So what do you think? I think these after market people think we are morons but, I must say the poser's line up at the dealers for all this crap. Wow I am being harsh, sorry guys, but I hate when people try to fool the average man.

03 H2

[Bad Dawg]

AZHUMMER,
I'm close to taking the plunge into a programer. I noticed you have the diablo predator and it sounds like you know your engines, so, I already have a few mods (intake, headers and exhaust) and have been looking at the Superchips programer as well as the Diablo. Will the addition of a programer make a noticable difference (mine downshifts at the slightest upgrade)? I realize the larger tires affect this and the programers can take that into account, but I would like to gain another 30hp like the ads claim. Any thoughts on the Superchips compaired to Diablo? (Superchip says theirs work on all 6.0 engines and not just the H2's).

You can never have enough horsepower! Yellow LUX, Airforce intake, stainless headers and exhaust, Gobi rack and ladder, roof mounted off road lights, full wrap brush guard, rear light guards, outside tire carrier, Rancho 4" suspension lift, Ultra "EN4CER" 17x9 wheels, Goodyear 37/12.50R17 MT/R tires, removed side-step bars, 9.5ti warn multi-mount winch.

[Centerfire]

I'm not a motorhead, heck I don't even like to change oil.. I understand the very basics and that is it.. I was just passing on the info.. It sounded like the old Aluminum Siding salesman trying to sell me siding for my Brick house... The guys at Realwheel simply passed it on to me.. I emailed them for more enough. Looks like we already have the info.. Even with my limited knowledge I would like to see dyno tests. As well as dyno tests on the H2 with the different catback systems.. I've bought in to all the different aftemarket HP add ons.. Do not know if they actually help or if it is all in our minds...

I know my Sub goes alot faster with the SC.. I just wish I did not have the heavy spark knock.. I guess when it finally blows up I will just put in the 502 big block as I should have in the beginning .

Mike

[H2 Bill]

KenP, the reason I asked what kind of S/C was that if it was a centrifigal it wouldn't launch anywhere near as well as a "roots" type and the HP doesn't build until the upper rpm range which, I don't believe, lends itself to working well with such a heavy vehicle. (How's that for a run on sentence!)

[Centerfire]

Ken

I've got an email into Lingenfelter asking if the options to the package are needed. If so why or why not.. Example.. Will the stock tranny handle the HP from the Supercharger .
Tranny on the SUb went at 85,000 miles.. Fortunately my wife's step brother has a tranny shop, Didn't save any $$ , I just know it was done right.

Mike

Mike

[KenP]

Mike,

They highly encouraged me to get the trans upgrade. Some others on this forum have upgraded their trans.

Bill, I liked it. I did have to read it twice though. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Black Lingenfelter Lux

[Fastest H-Town Realtor]

Unless the "supercharger" is that Turbonator POS, there is now way a header will ever put out a fraction of a s/c's power output. Period.

[HUMMERcustoms.com/TAZ]

I PM'd KenP on this to get his take on it.
I did not do a 0 to 60 before adding all the after market stuff.

Long neck dynotech stainless catback header sys.
40 series flowmaster dual exhaust sys. custom installed and shaped for best flow by a Pro Exhaust Shop. Improved on exhaust flow but did not mess with header and cat-back much.

Cold air intake by a multiple SEMA award winner from My area. Just helped Me feel better about getting something for My money other than hype.

T-body spacer came from same co. as air intake makers.

Fast Flash handheld perf. programer from same co. that got SEMA for all 3 items mentioned. Comp Cams bought there programer patent they liked it so much.

Throttle body coolant bypass kit to lower air intake temp. Made Myself to insure quality. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Taylor perf. spark plug wires. Have run many years on other apps and the Perf. store I use runs many kinds of cars themselves and builds race engines and have seen with own eyes this is what they use.

Ordered GM dual electric cooling fan sys. with computer tie in to control fan operation. Turn on at 180 degrees. Should gain around 15HP @ Tor

160 degree Ligenfelter thermostat waiting to be installed.

DID MULTIPLE RUNS AT DEAD STOP TO TIME 0 TO 60:
10 seconds on the money.
No tranny preload just dead brake to accelerator foot move.
I did not time before installs so do not know what gain was.
I have added weight since bought. 325X60/20 and rims, Many thousands on billet to replace plastic. Can't estimate weight increase but enough to make diff. so i removed spare and brackets to help some.

Now point being, KenP with SC runs 0 to 60 in 6.5 seconds and has been 6.44 I was told by others. I have video of a Ford turbo lighting losing to Ken.
I have another video of a rice rocket losing to a stock H2 with Radix SC.
I do not in anyway believe I could do this. I may surprise them with a scare though.
But, I have had the fun of increased HP and torque enough to surprise many little cars and f-bodies who think the H2 is a big lunch wagon. My Girl will put You back in the seat and not let up till I let up. It is a very enjoyable ride and thrill for the money spent. If You do not want to spend the kind of money it takes for SC and tuning etc. It is a valid way to get some pep beyond Your expectation and imagination. It will improve towing as i have some hills in north Arkansas to lake that use to make Me down shift and up shift alot and that has been reduced alot. Probably, as I did not keep count, under $2950 with custom labor.
I can get some more perf. gain if i ran high oct. in perf. setting but, I run regular unless I'm towing. Have no problem with preignition but, I do not recommend You do this as I have reduced temp to help that and I have experimented with My other vehicle as it is set up with much the same except exhaust sys. I get no PING AT ALL. It is My decision if I have to buy an engine so if it goes I'll have a Ligenfelter 427 ported, polished, blueprinted. with SC and 750HP plus. I think from what I've read maybe 1000HP with some other addons and tuning if I turned them loose with it. They build what will be safe for every day use by the consumer. I'm impressed enough with just a stock engine with SC I'm working on adding that or twin turbo but, lean towards SC. Waiting to hear from Ligenfelter about maybe letting them have My girl for a week to install what ever i decide on.
It is a matter of what You want to spend and accomplish.
I have raced all My life and I do not believe unless taken in person and seeing it with My own eyes a set of headers will perform like SC.
TAZ (Rick)

[KenP]

At the bottom of this link is a performance chart that includes the stock set up.

http://motortrend.com/features/performance/112_0308_tuner_h2/

BTW, that truck has 33's on it which is close to having 4.56 gears. I did the math a long time ago and it equated to nearly nothing in the performance department.

[HUMMERcustoms.com/TAZ]

I would like to point out here that Ken gets special treatment from Ligenfelter http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif that most of us would not get as he is big buddies with them and one of the first to get a H2 kit well I guess You would call it a prototype situation. Now to expound those guys at LIG. will take good care of You no matter what. Quality and reputation is first in thier book. I do not know where I'm going yet but if SC is it, it will be a Radix Magna Charger via LIG. or a sponsor I'm hopeing to help Me with My show quest for My Baby. Polished pleased!!!!
OH I forgot that if You go with the tame Lig. set up if You call 450HP flywheel tame You can run factory tranny and when it goes send core to Lig. and they will rebuild it or send a rebuild toughed up tranny. I was told by them that the bottom package is the only one they can recommend that on. If You do it KenP's way You better spend and do what ever Lig. says to do. Ken is the expert on what Lig. can and will do so i hate to say talk to Him cause i do hate to over load Him but if You do not know You go to the person Who does. Sorry Ken
Thanks
TAZ

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Centerfire:
Ken

I've got an email into Lingenfelter asking if the options to the package are needed. If so why or why not.. Example.. Will the stock tranny handle the HP from the Supercharger .
Tranny on the SUb went at 85,000 miles.. Fortunately my wife's step brother has a tranny shop, Didn't save any $$ , I just know it was done right.

Mike

Mike </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[HUMMERcustoms.com/TAZ]

Ken My Girl has 34's on it so it is not a big deal but would it change the gear ratio equevilant much?
Thanks
TAZ

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by KenP:
At the bottom of this link is a performance chart that includes the stock set up.

http://motortrend.com/features/performance/112_0308_tuner_h2/

BTW, that truck has 33's on it which is close to having 4.56 gears. I did the math a long time ago and it equated to nearly nothing in the performance department. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[HUMMERcustoms.com/TAZ]

Ken also I would think with 05's coming out with improved Hp and torque as well as a complete software upgrade for 2005 it would be possible tht 05 would have stronger numbers out of factory. From website you listed it would probably be a better baseline but, it may be neglegable.
Thanks
TAZ

[Fastest H-Town Realtor]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RLTAZH2:
I have video of a Ford turbo lighting losing to Ken. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats a supercharged Lightning...yea,i know...but I own one, so I'm nit-picky. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

[HUMMERcustoms.com/TAZ]

Sorry for the brain fart. It was several hours later where I'm at when I made the post. I had umped 12 games and about dead. But, like You said results still the same. By the way i like the Ford Lighting. Almost got one myself.
TAZ