Dead battery, again ... locating parasitic draw

[ree]

I recently replaced my battery. After a really cold night out doors in Feb, my truck wouldn't start without a jump. In the weeks after that, it started more and more sluggishly every morning until it wouldn't hold a charge over night. So I put the biggest Optima Yellow Top (D34/78) in about a week ago. And everything seemed fine.

This morning, the battery is dead enough that absolutely nothing works. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif I jump it and check that I didn't leave anything on that I shouldn't have. Absolutely nothing looks out of order. But I noticed that I hade the front defrost switched on on the climate control since it was rainy and humid out last night when I was out. I rarely have this turned on and it occurred to me that on the cold day when my factory battery met it's demise a month ago, I had had the front defrost on too.

So I assume I've got some sort of parasitic draw and will take the H2 into the dealer in the very near future. And I'm sure it'll be there for weeks while they try to figure it out http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

But being curious is there some relay that's getting opened and maybe sticking open when you depress the front defrost setting on the climate control? Note this is the front defroster and not the rear defogger which would give me obvious candidates for bad relays. As far as I can tell there's not obvious relay on the front. Might it be the A/C COMP RELAY in the engine compartment fuse box?

[ree]

Originally posted by PhilD:
Don't know if this helps or is related, but I had the same problem a few months ago. It even killed a yellow top, which I exchanged under warranty. I have an after market stereo and the stock one was left in (where the Bose sub used to be). I disconnected and removed it and never had the problem again. When I was sat in th truck with everything turned off, I would hear a cvery faint lick every 20-30 seconds come through the cargo area speakers (which were left connected for OnStar). The stereo was draining the battery flat over night.

I don't have an aftermarket stereo. But I have heard something that sounds like a faint periodic (every ~30 seconds) clicking in some of the speakers with the vehicle off and stereo off but when RAP power is still in effect. So perhaps my stock stereo is still to blame even though it's supposedly wired up right.

[ree]

Originally posted by PhilD:
Not sure I follow, doesn't the front defrost button just direct air to the windshield vents?

I was under the impression that in most reasonably sophisticated vehicles, when you activate front defrost the air flow is redirected. But also, if it's warm enough, the AC compressor is activated to help condense excess humidity in the supply air. I'm just wildly speculating about this though since the front defrost switch is the only thing I've observed to be coincident with these battery failures especially since I almost never have it activated.

[tomp]

Disconnect + side of battery, insert current meter in series with battery lead and battery + terminal. Check for crrent draw on meter. If there is some detected, start removing all fuses and relays - one at a time until the current drops down significantly.

Once you find the fuse/relay that causes the current draw problem, you can hopefully quickly locate the problem.

[ree]

Originally posted by tomp:
Disconnect + side of battery, insert current meter in series with battery lead and battery + terminal. Check for crrent draw on meter. If there is some detected, start removing all fuses and relays - one at a time until the current drops down significantly.

If this turns out to be a very repeatable thing, I might give an ammeter a try. But I'll probably relinquish it to the dealer,as much as I hate to do that, to figure out since it's still under warantee.

[tomp]

BTW, sometimes these problems turn out to be that the total current is caused by multiple devices and can be working properly. Good luck...

[HUMTECH]

Try removing the "AMP" fuse in the under hood fuse box and let it sit overnight see if the battery still drains. Have had issues with the staying powered up and killing batteries. If that doesn't work try again removing the "HVAC" fuse have also seen instances of the hvac module staying awake causing a high draw.

[ree]

Well it happened again :mad: Saturday was very humid and drizzly. I had the defrost on to reduce fogging. Sunday morning, dead battery. I'm 99.9% confident that it's related to the defrost and humidity now.

It's going to the dealer for other stuff. I guess I'm going to have to give it up for a long time for them to be able to reproduce and diagnose...or maybe I should never turn on the defrost again.

[TXSUT]

Well it happened again :mad: Saturday was very humid and drizzly. I had the defrost on to reduce fogging. Sunday morning, dead battery. I'm 99.9% confident that it's related to the defrost and humidity now.

It's going to the dealer for other stuff. I guess I'm going to have to give it up for a long time for them to be able to reproduce and diagnose...or maybe I should never turn on the defrost again.

Did you ever get this resolved? I had my OEM battery die on Thursday of last week, so I mindlessly replaced it with an Optima. Now, 3 days later, the Optima is dying. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

-Pete

[ree]

Nope. I've had one more mysterious dead battery since May, but that's it. It's so spurious that I've just decided that I'll live with the deep cycle battery + jumper.

If it's happening regularly for you, take it in. If it's no longer under warranty, you're concerned about the cost of diagnosing it, and you have some educated guess about what system might be the culprit, it might be worth investing in an ammeter. Wire it into your + terminal hookups and note the discharge rates at periodic intervals times while the vehicle is off. I'll look in my manuals for in-spec current's to expect (no promises I'll find the numbers). Then if you seem something larger than those, start pulling fuses in the systems you think might be to blame until the current measured by the ammeter drops to expected levels.

[dochummer]

Nope. I've had one more mysterious dead battery since May, but that's it. It's so spurious that I've just decided that I'll live with the deep cycle battery + jumper.

If it's happening regularly for you, take it in. If it's no longer under warranty, you're concerned about the cost of diagnosing it, and you have some educated guess about what system might be the culprit, it might be worth investing in an ammeter. Wire it into your + terminal hookups and note the discharge rates at periodic intervals times while the vehicle is off. I'll look in my manuals for in-spec current's to expect (no promises I'll find the numbers). Then if you seem something larger than those, start pulling fuses in the systems you think might be to blame until the current measured by the ammeter drops to expected levels.

Don't know if this helps, but the last time my battery died completely, I had noticed some of the instrument lights were on - The odometer reading, and a couple of panel lights to the rear seat heater and radio controls. That was it. We were camping, and had the interior lights set to 'off' with the rear hatch open for quite some time. When I went to close the hatch is when I noticed those lights. I figured they would turn off by themselves...but in the morning, the vehicle was completely dead.

[TXSUT]

If it's happening regularly for you, take it in.

Yep, took it in this morning. We'll see.

Thanks,

Pete

[HUMMERcustoms.com/TAZ]

Sorry to get in here late. Most likely they will tell You a faulty front passenger seat adjustment switch. I do not understand why there has not been a recall on these. It seems if you have a passenger and they adjust seat the switch will be stuck in a closed position and draw current for 2 or 3 days and if not driven daily battery will be dead. I worked with my dealer on this trying different things to help them have an answer. They suspected it but, i played with it by wiggling the switch after shut down of engine and other things. I finally confirmed that it was seat switch they changed out and never had a problem a gain.

But, I do know others on this forum have found other things that caused problem. My dealer for 2 years now have found this to be the problem most of the time not always.

TAZ

[HUMMERcustoms.com/TAZ]

Sorry to get in here late. Most likely they will tell You a faulty front passenger seat adjustment switch. I do not understand why there has not been a recall on these. It seems if you have a passenger and they adjust seat the switch will be stuck in a closed position and draw current for 2 or 3 days and if not driven daily battery will be dead. I worked with my dealer on this trying different things to help them have an answer. They suspected it but, i played with it by wiggling the switch after shut down of engine and other things. I finally confirmed that it was seat switch they changed out and never had a problem a gain.

But, I do know others on this forum have found other things that caused problem. My dealer for 2 years now have found this to be the problem most of the time not always.

TAZ

[TXSUT]

Thanks Taz, I'll pass that along to them. They've charged the battery and keeping it overnight to see if the problem repeats. I guess they have to rule out a weak off-the-shelf battery first.

[mdoyle]

Someone else already mentioned the same problem I'm having- sometimes when I turn off the ignition and take out the key, the shift position indicator will still be lit and a red battery light is displayed.

It's not a big deal to cycle the key again and it goes off, but if anyone else drives it, there is a risk they'll kill the battery if they don't notice it.

It's out of warranty and I mentioned it to the dealer while in for other service, he said it needs adjustment :confused:

I recall seeing a TSB about ignition switches, but I'll be damned if I can find it.

[TXSUT]

When I took mine in a few weeks ago, they supposedly couldn't find any problems. They put a charger on the new Optima battery overnight, thinking that maybe the battery was just weak from sitting on the shelf. Whatever. It took about two weeks, but the battery is drained again. When I called this morning to schedule an appointment, the service manager is already pointing a finger at my non-dealer-installed DVD headrests. Anything to keep it from being claimed under warranty, I guess. :rant: Taking it on Wednesday.

[TXSUT]

Okay, just got a call from my service guy saying that they replaced the (brand new) Optima Yellow Top, and that my problem was that that battery did not have enough cold cranking amps for my truck. Does that make any sense?

[PARAGON]

Okay, just got a call from my service guy saying that they replaced the (brand new) Optima Yellow Top, and that my problem was that that battery did not have enough cold cranking amps for my truck. Does that make any sense?

Nope, been running a Yellow Top with not enough cold cranking amps for 3 years with no problem. I haven't read the rest of this thread yet. But sounds like a copout for something.

[PARAGON]

Pete, a battery place can load test the battery, but your battery is not the problem.

Unless your truck has been sitting still for the 2 weeks, it didn't drain over that time. Your alternator should recharge it and if the battery has a bad cylinder it would not retain a charge for very long EVERY TIME. It sounds as though your problem is more intermittent which leads to some type of draw.

I had it and it was the rear air still cycling overnight while the truck was off. Relays can stick open periodically.

They are just trying to give you an excuse because they can't find one themselves, most likely.

[PARAGON]

Okay, just got a call from my service guy saying that they replaced the (brand new) Optima Yellow Top, and that my problem was that that battery did not have enough cold cranking amps for my truck. Does that make any sense?Take that "brand new" optima to an optima battery dealer and have them test it.

Cold Cranking Amps really have nothing to do with it, in your situation. CCA is the number of amps a battery can provide at 0 degrees for 30 seconds and not drop below 7.2 volts.

[TXSUT]

Thanks Paragon, I appreciate it greatly. I felt like they were copping out, just as they did two weeks ago when all they did was put an overnight charge on the new Optima battery.

As it was before I took it in this morning, if I let the truck sit for anything less than 4 hours, it would start with no problem. Leave it overnight and it would have a tough time. It sat for about 12 hours last night, and this morning I had to jump start it.

Regardless, I guess all I can do at this point is take delivery and wait for this new battery they just installed to die on me...then take it back in and raise holy hell. :rant:

[TXSUT]

I thought I could get another unbiased opinion from a mechanic friend of mine, so I gave him a call. Turns out that he absolutely hates Optima batteries, says they're just a bunch of ****ty marketing hype. Also said he can't count the times customers have come in with new, dead Optima batteries and once replaced with Interstate batteries, voila, no more problems. So much for an unbiased opinion, huh? LOL! He did concur that the CCA story from the dealership was bull****, though.

I also had an issue with the right rear of the truck sitting lower than the left side, and asked them to level it (Z ratio or whatever it's called). The message the service guy left me said "we adjusted your torsion bars to level the rear." WTF?

[PARAGON]

I thought I could get another unbiased opinion from a mechanic friend of mine, so I gave him a call. Turns out that he absolutely hates Optima batteries, says they're just a bunch of ****ty marketing hype. Also said he can't count the times customers have come in with new, dead Optima batteries and once replaced with Interstate batteries, voila, no more problems. So much for an unbiased opinion, huh? LOL! He did concur that the CCA story from the dealership was bull****, though.

I also had an issue with the right rear of the truck sitting lower than the left side, and asked them to level it (Z ratio or whatever it's called). The message the service guy left me said "we adjusted your torsion bars to level the rear." WTF?

ask them how much of an adjustment did they make to the rear torsion bars:giggling: :beerchug:

[PARAGON]

I thought I could get another unbiased opinion from a mechanic friend of mine, so I gave him a call. Turns out that he absolutely hates Optima batteries, says they're just a bunch of ****ty marketing hype. Also said he can't count the times customers have come in with new, dead Optima batteries and once replaced with Interstate batteries, voila, no more problems. So much for an unbiased opinion, huh? LOL! He did concur that the CCA story from the dealership was bull****, though.

I also had an issue with the right rear of the truck sitting lower than the left side, and asked them to level it (Z ratio or whatever it's called). The message the service guy left me said "we adjusted your torsion bars to level the rear." WTF?

He's right. I had one, Phil's had one or two. Sometimes when they come in, one or more of the cylinders are dead. Doesn't matter though, because that yellow top is not getting damaged by you dishcarging it with whatever problem is draining it. That interstate battery will get weaker and weaker the more it's completely discharged.

Also, there's all the other benefits of Optima mat-type batteries.

[usmctopgun]

I am running into this same problem. I had the dealership check the seat switches, but they claimed they were good. I am getting a contant 2amp draw, which kills it if it sits for longer than 7 days. Has anyone else linked the draw to something else?

[mdoyle]

Are there any lights on your dash at all when the key is out? I've got an issue with the ignition switch on mine, sometimes the shift position indicator remains lit and the red battery light stays on when I take the key out.

If I don't reinsert the key and take it out with those lights off, then the battery is dead the next morning. The Dealer said it need an "adjustment" but didn't fix it when it was in for air suspension work.

My suspicion is the switch is damaged and there isn't an adjustment for it.

[usmctopgun]

Not that I know of, but I will verify it when I get back home in a couple of weeks. They actually had to replace the ignition switch right after I got it, because it was causing the whole thing to act up. When the switch went bad, the hummer would start off in second gear, and not shift into fourth. Not sure how an ingnition switch should affect the transmission, but it did. I'll check into that, but if not, I'll be back in a couple of weeks with more questions. Thanks.


Are there any lights on your dash at all when the key is out? I've got an issue with the ignition switch on mine, sometimes the shift position indicator remains lit and the red battery light stays on when I take the key out.

If I don't reinsert the key and take it out with those lights off, then the battery is dead the next morning. The Dealer said it need an "adjustment" but didn't fix it when it was in for air suspension work.

My suspicion is the switch is damaged and there isn't an adjustment for it.

[Drainbamaged]

They actually had to replace the ignition switch right after I got it, because it was causing the whole thing to act up. When the switch went bad, the hummer would start off in second gear, and not shift into fourth. Not sure how an ingnition switch should affect the transmission, but it did.

There is a 22 awg white wire (2nd ignition) that supplies power to the transmission controller when the ignition is turned on. If the ignition was not making contact with that wire you would have shifting problems like starting in 2nd gear and not shifting into other gears.

sometimes the shift position indicator remains lit and the red battery light stays on when I take the key out.

If I don't reinsert the key and take it out with those lights off, then the battery is dead the next morning. The Dealer said it need an "adjustment" but didn't fix it when it was in for air suspension work.

There is no adjustment that i know of for this problem. The problem you are having is that your ignition switch is actually still making contact to that 22 awg white wire and keeping the 2nd ignition hot. I have had run into problems like this when i was installing remote starter systems into GM trucks.

[BITURBOAMG]

Did this ever get worked out? I am having in issue with the dash saying battery not charging and the batt light on. I have changed the batt and alt and get the same issue? I have no clue what is going on but I have always had problems with the batt light, odo and radio staying on after I take the key out and open the door. I have to lock unlock the truck and open another door for it to turn off. Any info or tips would help.

[ree]

Did this ever get worked out?
Unfortunately, no. It happens very rarely.

I have a suspicion that it's something whacked with the cigarette lighter in the center console. The past three times I've had a dead battery, I am certain that I had a device plugged into that jack for power. The prior times, I can't recall if it was the case, but think it might be. There doesn't seem to be any debris in the lighter jack to make contact, though.

Your problem sounds a lot wierder.

[HUMTECH]

The ignition switch can be adjusted, if they are not installed accuratly they will leave accessory power on. Easy way to check install key halfway and turn lock cylinder forward firmly and see if truck power up. If so ign switch needs to be removed and adjusted until this does not occur, seen it and repaired it many times. As for battery draws elsewhere have seen many air suspension relays fail and cause A draw, as well as onstar, sometimes if your not A subscibed customer the gps will intermittantly look for A signal waking up the module, pull the info fuse if you dont have A subscription. Also hvac control heads and stereo amps have been know to cause A draw.

[H2R]

Hook up a multimeter and start removing fuses, you can narrow it down fast. This will give you an idea where to start to look. To troubleshoot any other way may have you looking much longer.

[tower]

http://www.comedycentral.com/images/shows/southpark/videos/season_3/304_shopclass_m1.jpg Quit screwin' around! You're always screwin' around!

IT's fairly easy to track down a draw. Go to any good auto electric-shop and have them put a field ammeter on your primary battery cable. It has a kind of ring clamp which fits around the cable without even disconnecting or interrupting it. If there is a draw when the vehicle is off it will show up. That will quell the dealer's argument that the problem is with your yellow top (which I doubt). Then they just trace your wiring as it branches off the primary through the fusebox and downstream from there, locating the offending lead. DONE! :dancingbanana::dancingbanana::dancingbanana::danc ingbanana::dancingbanana::dancingbanana:

[HUMTECH]

An amp clamp I believe is what your talking about? if so, they are not near accurate enough as they only measure amps, you need to measure mA. You should see about a 25-40mA draw which is normal once all modules have powered down, typically within 1-5 minutes. any more than that after 5min and the draw is excessive. Install A battery disconnect switch between the neg cable and the neg bat post close the switch so current is flowing, attach amp meter to either side of switch and wait 5 min, open the switch and now the current will flow through the meter. Use the 10A scale so if its high you dont blow the fuse in the meter, should see about 0.025 to 0.040 on that scale.

[tower]

I believe Amp Clamp is a brand name like Kleenex. I know Fluke makes these. However, you are quite correct about the measurement. It is milliamps as opposed to amps. And there are DC clamp meters which go that low. Thanks for your correction, HUMTECH!
:perfect10s::perfect10s::perfect10s::perfect10s:

[mdoyle]

What is the adjustment for the ignition switch? Is is a matter of moving the lock cylinder or some linkage down the column?

I replaced the switch a few months ago and the problem went away, but now within the past few weeks it's come back.

[HUMTECH]

When you remove the ign switch(not the lock cylinder) you will see that it has a plastic wheel with teeth on it. Rotate it a little and reinsert ign switch. test it and readjust if neccessary. The ign switch will just slide out of the housing when A small pick tool is used to depress the retainers on both sides.

[mdoyle]

I'll give that a try, I remember the gear teeth from the replacement so it's no big deal to open it back up and select the next tooth.

[MONSTERMATT]

i have heard lots of good things about these optimas:giggling: :giggling: :lame: