Cognito steering support

[Ernie Italy]

Anyone have use this ? What think about this solution ?
Many thanks...
http://www.cognitomotorsports.com/02-06_H2/pitman_idler.htm

[Dewi2005]

Have not used or seen this used... looks like the concept is good and makes sense. I think my pitman arm is going out as my H2 likes to follow wheel ruts in the road now.

[PARAGON]

Interesting

[ree]

So is the claim that "alignment ... can not be held" without the product real? I only ask because every time I've had alignments it feels great for a couple hundred miles and then it reverts to being a rut climber. Or do they mean there's too much slop and their product eliminates this slop?

[PARAGON]

It's the slop, but slop can cause alignment problems since the system isn't "tight."

$200 for a couple of brackets seems steep though, unless they guarantee the pitman/idlers. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[KenP]

They're just stabilizing the arms. I have a sneaky feeling that could be done for a few bucks and sometime at a good hardware store. Now I think I'm going to slide under there and take a look.

[PARAGON]

$200 isn't anything if they really work. If it saved 2 alignments, you would nearly pay for them. If it saves the arms, then much better.

Everyone knows there is a premature wear issue even running stock tires on GM HD trucks. I can see the idea behind how these work IF the premature failure is caused by the front/back flex at the arms.

Sounds like someone like Trail Duty could check with them on a group buy for some of us to try out and see if they work. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[HummerLV]

Originally posted by PARAGON:
$200 isn't anything if they really work. If it saved 2 alignments, you would nearly pay for them. If it saves the arms, then much better.

Everyone knows there is a premature wear issue even running stock tires on GM HD trucks. I can see the idea behind how these work IF the premature failure is caused by the front/back flex at the arms.

Sounds like someone like Trail Duty could check with them on a group buy for some of us to try out and see if they work. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

if phil gets them i'm in for a test of them.

[ree]

Originally posted by PhilD:
I've ordered one and will install one as soon as I get it and do a write up and let you know how it works.
I assume this means you'll be looking for it to:
1) immediately, take up some of the steering slop
2) in the moderate term, allow you to hold alignment better
3) longer term, reduce pitman/idler arm wear
So we'd have a good idea on #1 and #2 in the near future. Correct?

[Ernie Italy]

I've ordered too ...

[KenP]

Phil, do you lose your alignment because of wheeling, or does it just go out?

[ree]

I lose my alignment very quickly just driving on the street. It's not out really bad, but enough for me to easily notice. Most people wouldn't, but I'm a bit more discerning.

[Klaus]

Originally posted by KenP:
Phil, do you lose your alignment because of wheeling, or does it just go out?

Ken, "tomp" is the subject matter expert on alignments. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[RIC-H0]

Originally posted by PhilD:
I've ordered one and will install one as soon as I get it and do a write up and let you know how it works.

NOOOO...It says it must be installed by a professional mechanic!!! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
It also states that it should take 45mins to a hour, so that means it will be an all day job for Phil! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[PARAGON]

So, I used a Rancho 5000 as a steering stab and mounted it just like stock. I've seen some mount them with the aftermarket mount where it has the u-bolts. Is the u-bolt setup where the problems lies?

If so, I should be good to go, then.

[PARAGON]

Originally posted by PhilD:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
Is the u-bolt setup where the problems lies? Yes, at least on the Fabtech one as it uses a plate at the idler arm, and has a hole in it for the idler nut, so it's got to go.

Fabtech also use a different bracket at the other end which fouls on the Cognito support.

If you are using the stock mounts, there should not be a problem. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Cool, I just ordered a set and will report back when I get them on.

[PARAGON]

Originally posted by PhilD:
This is what the Fabtech steering stabilizer mount looks like that causes problems.

http://www.*******club.com/temp/stab_mount.jpg That's different from the OTHER Rancho setup. So, I'm betting that the Rancho stabs would work, regardless.

It doesn't have that "plate" around the nut, I don't think.

Phil I think you might could check one of the Rancho stabs and see if you can replace your Fabtech stab with it. It's a universal mount and "clamps" around the center link, I guess further inboard of the nut.

[PARAGON]

I need a new mechanic and I hate Trail Duty, Hummer and Cognito right now. That is all! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[PARAGON]

Damn idler arm

[KenP]

You didn't shear it, did you?

[PARAGON]

Originally posted by KenP:
You didn't shear it, did you? No, read Phil's next post and you'll get the jist of it. You know it takes me six years to do something.

I removed the idler arm support bolts first and it moves everywhere when I try to work on the arm nut so I had to put it back in place and the wrench makes about an 1/8 turn each time.

I hate when I don't get to use an impact or air ratchet or something. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[KenP]

Originally posted by PhilD:
If you haven't already figured it out, some really strong arms come in useful for carrying around those 105lb nuts. Fizzed.

[PARAGON]

Idler side is on. Had to take a break. Whew! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[PARAGON]

Originally posted by PhilD:
Pitman side is a piece of a cake, took 10 minutes. 32mm long handled wrench to remove the big nut, 24mm I think for the smaller one. Does this one fit, no.... does this one fit, no.... does this one fit, no... does this one fit, yep. That's my system.

I don't think I have a 32mm, damn. What is that, like 1 1/2 inch. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[PARAGON]

Originally posted by PhilD:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
I don't think I have a 32mm, damn. What is that, like 1 1/2 inch. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif 300mm (12") adjustable will do the job. May need a rubber mallet to tap it off though. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I'm still on my break http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[KenP]

Paragon: Posted 02-21-06 05:10 PM

Still on break? http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

[PARAGON]

Still on break

[PARAGON]

Still on break

[PARAGON]

anyone have a functioning brain they can donate.... I've seem to have lost mine.

I lied just a teeny bit yesterday. I didn't fully torque the idler nut all the way but didn't think it was that big of a deal. Well I had bolted the idler assembly back up to make it easier to work on the nut and so I wouldn't have anything binding up. I'll be damn if you can get any torque on a wrench to tighten that f'ing nut. I got it tight enough and am going to get one of the techs to torque it up at the dealership when I take it in to get a few things done and to test out a new Tahoe.

Now on to the big nut on the pitman. Sum-bitch. I can't break it. My cheater bar won't fit on my big crescent. I'm thinking about cutting the damn thing off and telling the wife the cat ate it.

BTW, I'm on another break.

[PARAGON]

I tried holding with a hex wrench and it just binds too much because the little hex wrench is so small. So, I had the bright idea of bolting the whole thing back up.

Now I am too lazy to unbolt it (that's a word) so I stare at the pitman side to see if I can scare it loose.

[PARAGON]

I am going to eat some Wheaties and go give it another heave.

[KenP]

Originally posted by PARAGON:
dealership when I take it in to get a few things done and to test out a new Tahoe. I've read the new Tahoe H2 is really cool.

[RIC-H0]

Originally posted by PARAGON:
I am going to eat some Wheaties and go give it another heave.

Might wanna put on one of your depends undergarments!

Just in case you have a blowout!

[PARAGON]

Damn Wheaties worked.

But, alas, no increase in horsepower and that damn squeak is still present. Other than my center link and steering box, my steering is feeling, well bullet resistant, maybe not proof.

The pitman side took about 9 mins 43 secs once I manned up and broke that big damn nut free. I drove it up and down the street and didn't hit any parked cars or anything. Can't tell much with the little driving I did, though.

[PARAGON]

Originally posted by PhilD:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
The pitman side took about 9 mins 43 secs Almost as fast as me, the 10 minutes I referred to earlier was actually a rounded up 9' 41" http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Yeah, but I was counting the 3 seconds it took me to burp http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[KenP]

Originally posted by PhilD:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PhilD:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
The pitman side took about 9 mins 43 secs Almost as fast as me, the 10 minutes I referred to earlier was actually a rounded up 9' 41" http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Yeah, but I was counting the 3 seconds it took me to burp http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>And I counted the 9' 21" it took me to find a 32mm long handled wrench, and I didn't have to burp as I didn't need no wheaties to take off a little girly bolt http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>That brought the laughter!!!!

[PARAGON]

Originally posted by KenP:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PhilD:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PhilD:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
The pitman side took about 9 mins 43 secs Almost as fast as me, the 10 minutes I referred to earlier was actually a rounded up 9' 41" http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Yeah, but I was counting the 3 seconds it took me to burp http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>And I counted the 9' 21" it took me to find a 32mm long handled wrench, and I didn't have to burp as I didn't need no wheaties to take off a little girly bolt http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>That brought the laughter!!!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Shut it, that bolt's big http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[PARAGON]

Two thumbs up on the Cognitos. I hit the interstate for about 15 miles to take the truck into the dealer and there was a defined difference at that speed.

In the back of my head I was wondering why I wasn't noticing my tires feeling slightly out of balance. After putting these on, I could feel it again. I definitely took out that tad bit of slop I thought I was getting.

Also, the new Tahoe is da bomb. Super quiet, push button rear door opening, push button folding second row seats, very smooth ride AND THE SEATS, they are like LAZY BOY RECLINERS

[ree]

So what constitutes a qualified mechanic for this job. I'm not ready for this type of thing yet from the sound of it. I think I know who I'll have do it for me, but before I waste my money on countless labor hours is there some set of prerequisite experience so that I can tell them something like, "if you can do X, Y, and Z then you can do this for me without it taking 5 hours?"

[PARAGON]

A true mechanic with a lift should easily knock it out in 30 minutes time. Also having the right tools available helps. There is nothing technical to it but working on the idler is just a butt because of the original GM design.

[PARAGON]

In all honesty, if you have ever turned a wrench on a car or truck, it's pretty easy to do. I'm just stubborn and like to use air and/or power and basically like to complain a lot.

[ree]

Well, I do think I could do it, but I'd probably have to get a new tool, which might not be so bad, plus something to lift the truck with, which wouldn't be bad either. Plus I don't have a backup car. So I don't really have the luxury of being able to walk away from it our of frustration until the next day and be without a running car. I think I'll just pay someone on this one.

[ree]

Being an auto mechanical noob, I didn't really I understand these things from Cognito's pictures and descriptions. But I've talked to the mechanic, looked at some virgin pitman and idler arms, and crawled under my own truck and peaked up under the skid plate and think I grok it all now.

But I have, hopefully, one last question: how do you tell just how worn your arm links are? If you remove the skid plate can you just grab ahold of the center link and try to twist/rotate it and it'll move if the links are worn, or is the wear not that evident?

[Dewi2005]

checking for wear is more of a two person job. One to move the steering wheel back and forth just until resistance is felt and someone to look at all the joints underneath while the steering is being turned. Any 'slop' on the joints would signify a bad/worn joint. You should be able to move/twist the arms on the joints but not have latteral movement at the joint.

[dochummer]

Originally posted by PhilD:
Lift the front off the ground and "wiggle" the wheel from side to side, top to bottom, and feel for free play.

Ok, it's always fun trying to play catch-up on this message board....way too many posts! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Phil, When you say "wiggle," do you mean to push it side to side, or push to turn the wheels?

[Ernie Italy]

Top to bottom free play is more dangerous than side to side... A-Arms problem !!!

For Phil...
At the end do you think that the COGNITO SUPPORT are ok or no ?
What is the problem you have encoutered to install... I receive mine next week (15 days overseas for delivery....)

Thanks.

[Alan06SUT]

Had to ressurect(sp?) this one...So Paragon, Ernie, Phil, what is the verdict on this product. My 06 has 16K on it and it feels sloppy, the fabtechs and Allignment I had done after Tellico tightened it up, but I will be putting lots of miles on this truck and if this kit could save me an alignment or two and/or keep it from following ruts, I would like to add it. So, whats your verdict?

[Ernie Italy]

I have replaced my idler and pitarms and installed the cognito.
At the moment i can not give you any reply.
My idler and pitman go out after 15-18000 miles and more offroad and more bump on the trail...

[PARAGON]

After Moab, Tellico, and 2 local trips (I didn't have cognitos on for moab or one of the local trips) I still do not need an alignment and I am running 37" and the Fabtech tie rods.

It definitely tightened up my steering, well, not so much as tightened it up but made the feel more actual.

I honestly think the cognitos are no brainers due to the extra support it offers if it didn't do anything else. It doesn't allow for some linear rotation in the centerlink that happens when you are in stock form.

[Alan06SUT]

Thanks guys, I think i'll order them.

[ree]

Ahhhhh! I just got mine put on. Things are noticably tighter now.

I drove home from the shop in some huge heartland of America farm crosswinds and it was easier to control than before. Instead of having the truck lurch sideways in gusts only to have the steering catchup in a time lag, I can feel the truck start to drift in the steering much sooner and correct right away.

My alignment was off, but probably only because I tightened my torsion bars last week.

[tomp]

There is one on ebay cheap!

[Mr. I - Man]

where on ebay?

[MarineHawk]

Yes, I love mine too. I also hope that they will prevent some of the pitman/idler wear as advertised by those crazy TrailDuty people.