Questions from a potential buyer..

[BEST 4x4xFAR]

Morning All,

Hope I don?t get branded a troll here, but I?ve been looking at possibly purchasing an H3 as an everyday driver/vacation vehicle. I want it to be capable, but ultimate off-road ability is not a concern (have a dedicated vehicle for this). I?m looking for something safe, capable and with ample room in the backseat for car seats, and in the cargo area for a family of ? to take vacation needs with them. Being a dedicated gear head of sorts, the mechanicals and specs are more important to me than they probably should be, and information seems a bit hard to come by. Though I am sure I?d be looking for the locking rear diff and manual transmission. For my better half, concerns are ride quality of the rear leaf sprung suspension, cargo capacity, car seat fitment and safety. So here are our questions if anyone can throw answers back for them that would be great?

~> What make and model is the manual transmission?
~> Does the transfer case have an open, or a limited slip center differential?
~> Is the 8.5? of ground clearance listed to the rear axles diff, or frame?

~> Anyone fitted a large, rear facing car seat like a Britax Boulevard in the back seat?
~> Will it fit in any of the three positions, and are their LATCH anchors for all three seating positions?
~> If the car seat is center mounted, is there still room for a passenger on either side?
~> How much cargo space/capacity is there? MSN auto?s comparison tool numbers don?t seem right. If they are, the cargo area of the H3 is actually smaller than my wife?s current Subaru Outback, has less cargo volume seats up/seats down, and the is only rated to carry 25 lbs more cargo than her Outback? Doesn?t seem quite right.

~> How comfortable do the ladies find the H3 to drive? Quiet and smooth enough for most? We realize it is a truck, but we want to make sure it is reasonably comfortable.
~> I?m gathering that real world fuel mileage doesn?t exactly match the EPA numbers, they seem awfully optimistic given the H3?s weight, small engine or not?
~> And just how lacking In power is the H3? I read a magazine review that said 5th gear was unusable on anything but dead level highway travel?

Thanks in advance. We are of course planning to go and test drive one, but we are having trouble finding an area dealer with a manual transmission to drive. Area dealers list over a 100 H3s in stock, but all autos?!?!?

[TomV]

Well, I only have the truck for 10 days now, and I?ll let the experts here answer your technical questions - I?d just comment on the last issue:

I have the manual trans and I was glad to find out that the power
IS ABSOLUTELY ADEQUATE - and I had V8 WJ Jeep before H3...
I can imagine that with auto trans the power could feel marginal at times.
Also,the engine is quite torquey - it has 90% of tq as low as 1600 rpm..

IMHO you don?t have to worry about the power - but it woun?t hurt to have some other car for going FAST :D :D

[TomV]

BTW - as you probably know: for 2007 MY the engine will be bored to 3,7 L :cool:

[usetosellhummer]

big bang for the money and nice ride off road, solid

[Michael1]

Morning All,

Hope I don?t get branded a troll here, but I?ve been looking at possibly purchasing an H3 as an everyday driver/vacation vehicle. I want it to be capable, but ultimate off-road ability is not a concern (have a dedicated vehicle for this). I?m looking for something safe, capable and with ample room in the backseat for car seats, and in the cargo area for a family of ? to take vacation needs with them. Being a dedicated gear head of sorts, the mechanicals and specs are more important to me than they probably should be, and information seems a bit hard to come by. Though I am sure I?d be looking for the locking rear diff and manual transmission. For my better half, concerns are ride quality of the rear leaf sprung suspension, cargo capacity, car seat fitment and safety. So here are our questions if anyone can throw answers back for them that would be great?

~> What make and model is the manual transmission?
~> Does the transfer case have an open, or a limited slip center differential?
~> Is the 8.5? of ground clearance listed to the rear axles diff, or frame?

~> Anyone fitted a large, rear facing car seat like a Britax Boulevard in the back seat?
~> Will it fit in any of the three positions, and are their LATCH anchors for all three seating positions?
~> If the car seat is center mounted, is there still room for a passenger on either side?
~> How much cargo space/capacity is there? MSN auto?s comparison tool numbers don?t seem right. If they are, the cargo area of the H3 is actually smaller than my wife?s current Subaru Outback, has less cargo volume seats up/seats down, and the is only rated to carry 25 lbs more cargo than her Outback? Doesn?t seem quite right.

~> How comfortable do the ladies find the H3 to drive? Quiet and smooth enough for most? We realize it is a truck, but we want to make sure it is reasonably comfortable.
~> I?m gathering that real world fuel mileage doesn?t exactly match the EPA numbers, they seem awfully optimistic given the H3?s weight, small engine or not?
~> And just how lacking In power is the H3? I read a magazine review that said 5th gear was unusable on anything but dead level highway travel?

Thanks in advance. We are of course planning to go and test drive one, but we are having trouble finding an area dealer with a manual transmission to drive. Area dealers list over a 100 H3s in stock, but all autos?!?!?

You do know that your options for a family size (read decent back seat) off-road capable SUV with a manual transmission have dwindled down to exactly three. Sadly, most Americans are more interested in having cars which are a combination kitchen-phone booth-powder room-entertainment room which happens to have a steering wheel and gas pedal, and doesn't leave a free hand for shifting. So for the rest of us interested in actually driving your options are:

Hummer H3
Nissan Xterra
2007 Jeep Unlimited

The FJ Cruiser's back seat is really too small for family use, and has inconvenient rear hinged doors.

To answer a few of your questions. The center diff is limited slip, all wheel drive, which is lockable. I'm not sure if it is torsen or viscous, or what the standard torque split is.

I think ladies find it reasonably comfortable to drive, because 40% of buyers are women from what I have heard. I think the around town ride is very good. The freeway ride I would characterize as "busy", and my personal belief this is because the frame is less stiff than it should be. It is certainly not jarring like the Xterra is, but it is not Lexus GX 470 smooth either. With 33" tires and 75% aspect ratio, potholes don't affect the H3 much.

Noise level in the H3 is excellent. Road noise is almost non-existent. You will get some wind noise around the A-pillar when driving into a headwind, but it is not too loud. We're talking about only 69-70 dBA at 70 mph, which is very good.

Cargo volume with the seat up is 29.5 cu. ft. That's smaller than most, but again bigger than the FJ Cruiser (27.9 cu. ft.). With the back seat down, cargo volume expands to 55.7 cu. ft., and the rear seat does not fold flat The H3 is not a big cargo hauler, but the length of the cargo space is almost 6 ft, which is longer than most, which can be helpful to hauling long items. Payload is 1150 pounds which is slightly better than average.

I asked about the 5th gear usability in another thread, so keep your eyes open for that. I think the press may be exagerating the issue, because I didn't notice any problem on my test drive. GM usually puts very tall high gears in their cars for fuel economy. My Corvette won't even pull 6th gear on a really steep grade. We'll let others with more experience voice their opinions.

By the way, ground clearance is 9.1" with the Adventure Package. Looking at the vehicle, I would guess the low point is the rear diff.

Hope this helps!

Michael

[Wisha Haddan H3]

~> What make and model is the manual transmission?
Manual tranny is the Aisin AR5

~> I?m gathering that real world fuel mileage doesn?t exactly match the EPA numbers, they seem awfully optimistic given the H3?s weight, small engine or not?
The mpg numbers are real on the base model with manual tranny, a light foot, no passengers and no vehicle options, after the engine has broken in ... yeah, it's optimistic, but no more than other vehicles.

~> And just how lacking In power is the H3? I read a magazine review that said 5th gear was unusable on anything but dead level highway travel?
Others may know better from owning one, but based on my 5-spd test drive on I-70 west of Denver, 5th gear was ok in the foothills because of all the low end torque. But to keep up with traffic on the steeper grades, I liked 4th better, and needed 3rd on Floyd Hill. No big surprise there. It does as well as my 5spd Blazer ZR2 (4.3L V6 - 190 HP, 250 Tq, NP233 tranny). .

[humma_H3]

Go test drive, let the wife drive- "insta-sale" My wife is now commenting on wanting to upgrade to an H2 for our next car.... i'll stick with the 3.

matt
cincy oh

[phantom2]

If your looking for a comfortable "everday" driver, you should definitely try a different vehicle.I myself would not recommend an H3 for long trips.I recently took mine on a 2600 mile trip and I found the seats to be very uncomfortable and the engine lacking in power for safe highway driving.Acceleration on highway on ramps and passing another vehicle is a true adventure and requires planning in advance.As far as luggage space is concerned,there is very little for the size of this vehicle.The H3 is an "outstanding" off road vehicle and that is it's strength.I can also say that the H3 has been absolutely trouble free from the day I bought it,it's just not the vehicle for me.

[f5fstop]

T/cases are two-speed full time 4WD, with a 40F/60R split in 4HI unlocked mode. The front and rear shafts are constantly driven. A plantary differential splits the torque between front and rear during unlock mode. When locked in either hi or lo, a lockup collar bypasses the planatary assembly, and locks the mainshaft to the drive sprocket and the output shaft. Rear and front are now driven by equal rpm.

I have an auto and I do not feel it lacks power, until you get up around 70 mph. It is not a Vette off the line, but it is not a VW diesel either. You can pass on an interstate, but on two-lane roads, as someone else said you have to plan ahead. (Actually, when driving a Vette you need to plan ahead too). Do not agree that it is unsafe, and if someone thinks so, it is time to sell, if they feel that way. You cannot power your way onto the freeway like I do in a vette, you have to scare the oncoming vehicles with the size of the vehicle. So far, no problems merging on any freeway, and that includes MI, where it is like a game to allow someone to merge.

I can only speak for the leather seating, but it is comfortable in a 11 hour drive from MI to middle TN. I had absolutly no problems, but I cannot speak for the cloth seats.

My mileage around town is the summer is 15, winter is 13.5-14; and this is solid stop and go, with NO interstate. It is basically drive a mile, stop for a red (sometimes two reds at the same intersection), then go again.
Highway last year with only 2K on the engine was 18.9 average for the trip. From MI to TN, basically half flat, half rolling hills. A/C on, no cruise, and average speed through KY and TN was 80 mph.

I know quite a few woman who love the H3, so let the wife drive and make the decision.

[Sewie]

If your looking for a comfortable "everday" driver, you should definitely try a different vehicle.I myself would not recommend an H3 for long trips.I recently took mine on a 2600 mile trip and I found the seats to be very uncomfortable and the engine lacking in power for safe highway driving.Acceleration on highway on ramps and passing another vehicle is a true adventure and requires planning in advance.As far as luggage space is concerned,there is very little for the size of this vehicle.The H3 is an "outstanding" off road vehicle and that is it's strength.I can also say that the H3 has been absolutely trouble free from the day I bought it,it's just not the vehicle for me.

You're obviously entitled to your opinion, but I'm gonna have to disagree with almost everything you said.

My H3 is my DD (17K+ miles) and it is great on the highway, in traffic, and around town. I've also done some 1000+ mile trips and have been quite comfortable. And I don't even have the leather seats. I wouldn't mind having more cargo space but I've been able to use what is available quite effectively.

Not trying to bash you, but it sounds like you should have been in the market for a different type of vehicle. Everything you complained about should have been evident on the first test drive.

[nafs]

i'll chime in on the car seat.

i have a britax marathon, which is huge and you can place it at any of the three positions. currently I have it in the middle. The britax will not fit side by side with another britax (will fit on both ends) but i have fitted a britax with a booster seat side by side.

The H3 is definately not a minivan, thankfully.

[NM H3]

i'll chime in on the car seat.

i have a britax marathon, which is huge and you can place it at any of the three positions. currently I have it in the middle. The britax will not fit side by side with another britax (will fit on both ends) but i have fitted a britax with a booster seat side by side.

The H3 is definately not a minivan, thankfully.
Are you using the LATCH hooks in the center? My marathon should be here Wednesday, and was wondering about this too.
Is yours rear facing?

[evldave]

My 2 cents:

Now at 12k miles, it's my DD. Coming from a 325i and before that a Cherokee (plus I have a suburban for extended expeditions). I've had it on 4 long weekends (~1000k miles). , It's an auto and cloth seats. I live in the NW, which means anywhere you go, you are climbing a mountain.

That said, it's easily the best balance between being able to drive there in comfort and drive offroad in security in stock form (and it's not hard to make it even better on the cheap). My whole family is GM now (after being Ford for a few decades) and it's much better build quality than either a Tahoe or 1500/2500 pickup. It suffers on the interior storage, but get a roof rack and you've got enough space for 4 people, 2 dogs, and all the camping equipment you need.

As far as power, I don't think it's even underpowered on the freeway. Sure, compared to a vette or a BMW it's a dog, but I cruise @ 80 on the freeway and have no problem with power. It will downshift to speed up, and the cruise control sucks (it appears to be an on-off, instead of incremental, which means when you go up a hill, it floors the throttle and drops down a gear every time).

You can crank the torsion bars to get more clearance. Add 35's (they will fit in stock trim) and you'll get another 1". On road manners won't be an issue, and it's better offroad.

And one thing you didn't ask about. You'll likely get exceptional service. Hummer dealers bend over backwards for their customers, and the brand prides itself on setting a higher standard (regular hummer happenings, etc). Get it through a 5 star dealer and you'll have the best customer service you can get anywhere (including German or Japanese brands). The build quality on a 1st year vehicle seems great, so that's another benefit.

[deserth3]

My previous vehicle was a 2 door Chevy Blazer (I've owned 3 over the years). I find after driving the H3 I don't miss the Blazer.

When I went to test drive one I was leary because of all the negative comments. Personally I find them not true. You are pushing almost 5000 lb down the road and the 3.5 liter does it's job well. I can get up to 75 by the end of the on ramp if no one is in front of me. So far that's the only drawback I've had. Other drivers. Nothing like merging with traffic going 75 when doing 45.

The H3 excells in parking lots. Turn the wheel and it goes straight in.

I haven't had a chance to take a long road trip but I would not hesitate to do so. I've done 5 to 6 hour offroad trips and findit very comfortable.

Drive one yourself.

[Michael1]

Morning All,

Thanks in advance. We are of course planning to go and test drive one, but we are having trouble finding an area dealer with a manual transmission to drive. Area dealers list over a 100 H3s in stock, but all autos?!?!?[/FONT]

You really have to call around to find one with a manual transmission. I finally found one and was impressed. I'm pretty picky, too. The clutch effort was light, and the modulation was fantastic. The shifter works well, and is in a comfortable position.

I had heard the reports of lacking power in 5th gear, and purposely took it out on the freeway to find out. I got it up to 75, and it was still pulling, even in 5th. I came away perplexed about what the magazines were talking about. I think they may be use to many vehicles, which really don't have an economy top gear. I like the tall gears GM uses. It cuts engine wear, engine noise, and boosts fuel economy.

Everybody's bodies are different. Here is a nice thing. Hummer thoughtfully put lumbar adjustments even in the standard cloth driver's seat. Many companies don't. It's a real back saver. If you still think you may have trouble getting comfortable in the cloth seats, get the Luxury Package with the leather seats. It comes with 6 way power adjustment for the base, and power lumbar, plus manual adjustment for backrest angle, for both driver and passenger. After a couple of minutes of adjusting, I was able to get just the right amount of thigh support, and lumbar support for those long trips.

Every woman I know loves heated seats. The Luxury Package includes those.

Do you like a nice sounding stereo? The Monsoon system blew away every other SUV I looked at.

Although the price went up $150 this year:( , the navigation system is still reasonably priced compared to the competition. That's something to keep in mind if you want navigation.

It is also one vehicle you can take off-road without worrying about it getting torn up (I'm talking family outings here). You can also add rock rails (factory accessory) to protect the rocker panels from rocks, and a full underbody cage (also factory accessory) to provide additional protection for the transfer case and transmission.

Another nice thing about the manual, is, if you get the Off-road package with its 4 to 1 transfer case, you get an industry leading crawl ratio of 68.9 to 1. That's 1.7 mph per 1000 rpm. Great to crawling right over those boulders, that could be troublesome otherwise.

I drove the Standard and Adventure Package back to back over the same route, and neither I nor the salesman could detect any difference in the ride. I think many off-road packages have a negative effect on ride, and it's nice this one doesn't appear to.

If you have a family, I would be thinking about safety, too. There are side curtain air bags available as an option, which have rollover activation. Rollover is a leading cause of death in SUVs. The manual transmission models come with Stability Control in '07 which can help prevent rollovers in the first place. The headlights are better than most, too.

Michael

[Steve - SanJose]

Just my 2 cents after 11 months and 19k miles in my H3-lux/auto. Used mostly on the road with some light offroad and snow usage.

Space inside is so-so, many smaller crossover utility vehicles will have more room. The H3 is a real truck with serious offroad capability, not a station wagon on stilts. Actual mpg vs EPA mpg is lower like a vast majority of vehicles. I get 14-15 in town and 16-17 on the freeway (and we drive fast on the freeways here). Yea the H3 is somewhat slow on the road, but if you keep your foot into it and keep the revs up the rig will move. Hopefully the folks with manual trannys will give more feedback. I have 2 much faster cars in the garage but I use the H3 daily. For a truck, the ride and level of refinement is very good. I'm still enjoying it.

S.

[JeffW]

I just went out and measured my ground clearance (on level garage floor) with off-road package. I got 10" under the rear transfer case, and 9.5" under each rear shock. The latter seems to be the lowest point on the vehicle.

[nafs]

On the car seat....

The center latches work fine. I have the britax facing foward beacuse my daughter is 2 yrs old. I really see no problem with the rear facing position because the latch straps are on the metal rods on the side of the chair and the strap can slide foward and back to accomodate both foward and rear facing. remember to hook up the rear tether that is on the back of the chair. If it is rear facing, try to calmp it to some metal at the seats. When foward facing, there is a nice latch on the back of the center seat to accomodate a hook up. The britax becomes super secure. If you have leather seats then a seat protector is a must. I got the prince lionheart seat protector. it is a great combination with the britax.

hope this helps. good luck.

[NM H3]

On the car seat....

The center latches work fine. I have the britax facing foward beacuse my daughter is 2 yrs old. I really see no problem with the rear facing position because the latch straps are on the metal rods on the side of the chair and the strap can slide foward and back to accomodate both foward and rear facing. remember to hook up the rear tether that is on the back of the chair. If it is rear facing, try to calmp it to some metal at the seats. When foward facing, there is a nice latch on the back of the center seat to accomodate a hook up. The britax becomes super secure. If you have leather seats then a seat protector is a must. I got the prince lionheart seat protector. it is a great combination with the britax.

hope this helps. good luck.
Good info. Thank you.

[CLAYDOG]

My 2 cents:

Now at 12k miles, it's my DD. Coming from a 325i and before that a Cherokee (plus I have a suburban for extended expeditions). I've had it on 4 long weekends (~1000k miles). , It's an auto and cloth seats. I live in the NW, which means anywhere you go, you are climbing a mountain.

That said, it's easily the best balance between being able to drive there in comfort and drive offroad in security in stock form (and it's not hard to make it even better on the cheap). My whole family is GM now (after being Ford for a few decades) and it's much better build quality than either a Tahoe or 1500/2500 pickup. It suffers on the interior storage, but get a roof rack and you've got enough space for 4 people, 2 dogs, and all the camping equipment you need.

As far as power, I don't think it's even underpowered on the freeway. Sure, compared to a vette or a BMW it's a dog, but I cruise @ 80 on the freeway and have no problem with power. It will downshift to speed up, and the cruise control sucks (it appears to be an on-off, instead of incremental, which means when you go up a hill, it floors the throttle and drops down a gear every time).

You can crank the torsion bars to get more clearance. Add 35's (they will fit in stock trim) and you'll get another 1". On road manners won't be an issue, and it's better offroad.

And one thing you didn't ask about. You'll likely get exceptional service. Hummer dealers bend over backwards for their customers, and the brand prides itself on setting a higher standard (regular hummer happenings, etc). Get it through a 5 star dealer and you'll have the best customer service you can get anywhere (including German or Japanese brands). The build quality on a 1st year vehicle seems great, so that's another benefit.

Not sure if this is what your talking about, but the cruise is incremental. A single tap on the set button slows 1mph, a tap on the on/off/resume switch 1mph faster.

[Scouts Out]

I have no trouble and consistantly turn over 2000 miles a month on my H3. My biggest complaint remains the seat kill my back. Last trip I had company and I deliberately asked them and they loved the seats. I guess I am just broken

[thedieter]

I wonder why a manual trany for the use you described.

The auto runs at 2500-2700 RPM at 70-75 MPH which is near the sweet spot on the torque curve.

On a manual trany, cruise control would just lug down from 80 MPH to a lower speed and drop out, wouldn't it? Auto tranys do rev up excessively when they downshift (trying to get back to 80 MPH) and that is why CC should not be used in mountains.

Space is at a premium on the H3 as it is 11" shorter than the Taurus that we had before.

Best regards, Happy Jack

[BEST 4x4xFAR]

Well, I want to start off by saying thank you for everyone’s responses. I can’t remember who said what, but wanted to ask some additional questions about responses. I’ll start with the manual transmission. Apparently an Aisin AR5 (I see through further research that GM also calls it an MA5 and uses it in the Solstice, Sky, Colorado (suprise, lol) etc.), with an input torque rating of 225 lb/ft. GM didn’t exactly over engineer this, given the engine’s 225 lb/ft of stock output. Makes me wonder what changes were made for ’07, since the ’07 engine now exceeds this input specification, and would make me worry about the idea of forced induction as well. Oh, and we want a manual transmission because both my wife and I hate driving automatics.

I’d like some additional input on the center differential if anyone has any more information. I saw some exploded views of the t-case (I assume it is a New Venture, anyone have the model number?) in another thread, and those with the poster’s explanation didn’t lead me to believe it was a limited slip differential of any kind. If someone could confirm or deny and share what type of differential it is, that would be helpful.

On the Car seat, a couple have noted that car seats fit, but they seam to be forward facing. I refuse to turn our daughter around until she reaches the Britax Boulevard’s weight limit (33 lbs), and the Boulevard is even larger than the Marathon, so I am still concerned about it fitting. On that note, can anyone confirm how many LATCH anchors there are in the back seat, and in what positions? The Seat will most likely fit in the center, and it is my preferred location anyway, if LATCH anchors are provided for the center (Many cars only provide them for the outboard positions it seems). Can anyone confirm with a large car seat in the center if passengers (not necessarily other car seats) can still use the outboard seating positions?

I am trying really hard to reserve judgment until I can spend some time with it, and drive it, but I have to tell you, I’m more than a bit disappointed to find out that the cargo area dimensions, square footage and capacity numbers I had previously found are correct. Seems hard to phantom that my wife’s Subaru Outback has more cargo capacity, a longer cargo area, and identical width cargo area and can carry all but 25 lbs of what an H3 is rated to. Kind of kills the “tough, heavy duty truck” image Hummer portrays, and it is making it harder to justify to my wife…

[NEOCON1]

just get her a FJ ;) :D

[BEST 4x4xFAR]

just get her a FJ ;) :D

???? Honestly, if it were four door, we'd be considering it as well, but it apparently has even less cargo space, only has rear "access" doors and while we both like the styling, we like the H3 styling better. But I do like the more powerful engine, better history of build quality and reliability, and that the transfer case actually has a shifter, not buttons that electronically shift the t-case...

[Ipedog]

On the Car seat, a couple have noted that car seats fit, but they seam to be forward facing. I refuse to turn our daughter around until she reaches the Britax Boulevard?s weight limit (33 lbs),

How old is your daughter? My son is nearing 3yo and is not 33lbs yet. I know for a FACT that if he were still facing rearwards at this point vehicle rides would be very, very unhappy events. I understand being a cautious parent but before you go nuts on this check with your Pediatrician. I have a feeling that he/she will proably say its okay for your daughter to be facing forward at the one year point.

Also remember that you are going to have this vehicle far longer than you are going to have that car seat, and that Britax makes a variety of seats. I've got a Britax in my H3 (although I can't remember the model, its a Marathon, I think) and it fits fine. I got the H3 after my son was turned to face forwards so I can't comment for sure on the rear facing fit, but I have a feeling that it would have.

At the worst take some car seats with you to the dealership. Stop at Babies R Us before you go and get one of every style and then return the ones that don't work. If the dealer doesn't like it just tell him that they just lost the sale. I have a feeling that all will be good.

Good luck in your decision.

[HummerNewbie]

...we like the H3 styling better.

So you have taste :p

...better history of build quality and reliability, and that the transfer case actually has a shifter, not buttons that electronically shift the t-case...

The FJ has not be out long enough to know what the build quality and reliability is. Now if you are just basing that on Toyota's history, that makes a difference but GM's worst rated vehicle for quality/reliability is built by Toyota. I also don't understand why the shifter is such a big deal to people. To each their own, but not being a long time wheeler I am just wondering why. Is it because that is what you are used to or is it more not wanting to rely on something electronic?

[HummerHippy]

???? Honestly, if it were four door, we'd be considering it as well, but it apparently has even less cargo space, only has rear "access" doors and while we both like the styling, we like the H3 styling better. But I do like the more powerful engine, better history of build quality and reliability, and that the transfer case actually has a shifter, not buttons that electronically shift the t-case...

I need a vehicle that can carry some specific sized cargo (cases). H3 has longer distance from inside rear door to back of front seats (I tested with an approx 63in long case), than FJ. FJ's rear seat bottom, which flips up, gets in the way. Although you are supposed to be able to remove them.
I also have a case that is about 33" x 36". With back seats folded down, it fits in the back of the H3 w/o really touching the rear seats. FJ: about 1 inch shorter so the case sits on the very end of the rear seat in the FJ, and is not supported by the floor at that end. I do see that FJ has more cubic feet for cargo room, but for my particular needs, H3 is "bigger". Perhaps FJ wins in cargo area height?

[BEST 4x4xFAR]

How old is your daughter? My son is nearing 3yo and is not 33lbs yet. I know for a FACT that if he were still facing rearwards at this point vehicle rides would be very, very unhappy events. I understand being a cautious parent but before you go nuts on this check with your Pediatrician. I have a feeling that he/she will proably say its okay for your daughter to be facing forward at the one year point.
Hello Rob,

I appreciate your input. While there are many different styles of car seats, I don?t necessarily prescribe to the thinking that they are all as good as the other since they have to meet certain government standards (just like all cars aren?t as safe, even though to be sold they have to meet standardized criteria). As a result, I don?t want to be forced into a compromise on my choice of seats by the vehicle we buy. I suspect that it will work rear facing in the center of the H3 as it does in center of the Outback (won?t fit rear facing outboard without making the front seat unusable).

And you are correct, that the guidelines set forth by the American Academy of Pediatric Doctors (AAP) say you can turn a child forward facing once they are BOTH one year old and 20 lbs or over in weight. However, the AAP goes on to say ?If a car safety seat accommodates children rear facing to higher weights, for optimal protection, the child should remain rear facing until reaching the maximum weight for the car safety seat, as long as the top of the head is below the top of the seat back.? (http://aappolicy.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/pediatrics%3b109/3/550)

My wife says I research everything to death, so I wasn?t going to leave our daughter?s safety out. After extensive research I am convinced that she is much safer rearward facing (adults would be as well, by the way), hence the statement. We have already taken comments from other parents about having her rear facing, and I am sure it would be difficult to impossible to get a child that is accustomed to riding forward facing to go back, but our daughter doesn?t know any different, and is quite content at 15 months. My wife was actually giving me a hard time about not wanting to turn our daughter around, until she viewed these videos, now she explains why rear facing is safer tot hose who ask why we haven?t turned our daughter around.

Here are a couple of links to check out if you want to do some more research, and a couple of video links that really open people?s eyes up to how much more violent a crash is for a forward facing child in comparison to a rear facing child. Remember, even at one year, children?s bone and muscle structure is still very much under development. Here are those links?

Forward Facing Crash Test Video:

This actually has a forward facing seat in the front, and a rear facing in the background if you look..

http://www.oeamtc.at/netautor/html_seiten/kisitest_2002/videos/test2002/frontcrash/maxicosipriori.mpg

Rear Facing Crash Test Video:

http://www.britax.fi/quicktime/TWside240.AVI

More Rear Facing Info:

http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/stayrearfacing.aspx (first photo is a rear facing, 3 year old boy)

Read through this page, and there are multiple links to follow from there as well.

Sorry, I?ll get down from my soap box now, but information is important for everyone to have. If you still want to turn your children around at one year/20 lbs, I respect that as your decision for your child. Myself, I won't turn her around till she reaches the rear facing maximum weight or height.

[HIHUMMER]

Just my 2cents on the carseat bit..I have a Graco Omega...my son is 13 months but only 18lbs...right now...he is still rear facing. It works out okay as long as the passenger isn't to picky about being moved up a little closer and a little more straight backed.

[Ipedog]

Are you sure you're not looking for one of these?:

http://www.alpineco.com/armored/Hummer/H2.html

;) :) :p ;) :D

[Desert Dan]

My biggest gripe with the H3 is that the back seat doesn't fold flat! Besides that it is great

It is pretty hard to make a 4 door SUV that is off road capable, gets good gas mpg, and small enough to still keep up with 2 door Jeeps etc. The H3 is a great package.

I you need a 3rd row seat or mores buy a bigger SUV like a Suburban, Tahoe, Land Crusier or if you like Rovers go with the LR3 or Defender 110.

[thedieter]

I just want to point out that the auto has a much higher towing capacity which implies, to me, that the auto is stronger.

With regards to rear facing child seats, they seem better if you crash into something (somewhat under your control) but are they also better if you get rear-ended (out of your control)? Just curious.:confused:

Best regards, Happy Jack