Side Slope Measuring Device?

[MisterE]

Hi All,

I'm a novice to 4 Wheeling, as I've said in my other threads most of my other threads my off-roading has been in Dune Buggies which had a super low center of gravity and extra wide wheel base. Well I'm very happy with my H3 but it is BIG change! I know that manual says it can handle a 40% side slope and I am getting ready to go back up to the Sand Dunes. Is there anything out there (other than the good old eyeball test) that you can add to your HUMMER that lets you know when your getting into the danger zone as far as the side slope?

Sorry for the newbie question!

[westhillsat]

You can get a tilt meter from Trail Duty

There is a link to Trail Duty in the thread below

http://www.elcovaforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11735&highlight=meter


Here is a direct link

http://www.trailduty.com/products/trailduty/tiltmeter.html

PhilD a member here is with Trail Duty.

[thedieter]

If I got one I would put a mark at 22 degrees to indicate the 40% rating of the H3.

Best regards, Happy Jack

[Hummer Guy]

any hardware store has "angle locators" for pretty cheap...

[DWPC]

You can buy a small accurate clinometer at a boating supply store for $10 or so. But clinometers made for boats don't look so hot in vehicles and you'll have to be creative mounting it. The ones for sold for 4x4s showing both lateral angle and incline are usually so small and graduated so coarsely that they don't tell you anything useful. Make sure its dampened or it'll bounce around so much it'll be useless.

IIRC, few months back someone posted a pretty slick one here on the H3 forum that they designed and installed , but I don't remember who!

And I assume you know 40% is a little under 22 degrees.

This outfit makes them for the construction equipment: http://www.tiltmeter.com/page9.html

Here's one for the truly paranoid: http://www.tiltmeter.com/page25.html

[KenP]

From must a couple of days ago:

http://www.elcovaforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17958&highlight=west+marine

[NEOCON1]

just stick one of these somewhere ;)

[MisterE]

Sweet Thanks Guys!

Ahh my math sucks...How do you get 22 degrees from 40%? Just curious should I ever need to figure it out for another vehicle.

[NEOCON1]

dont know about that math but have had my levogauge to between 36-38 degrees , scary :eek: :eek: but not even close to max :D truck was super stable :cool:

[MisterE]

Yeah, I would think that it would be able to go more than 22°. As I said my math sucks that was why I wanted to know how to figure it out but a 40% slope at first I would have figured 90° a 100% side slope and 50% or 45° half, then knock another ten percent off that. I was suprised to hear only 22°.

But as I said my math sucks and I totally defer to you guys as the last thing I would trust to my math would be my H3!

Thanks Guys \ Gals!

[thedieter]

The slope % comes from the amount of rise divided by the run.
Example: 1000 ft. rise divided by 3000 ft. run = .60 or 60%

This is the way roads are listed on grade signs.

They use the same method for side slope. 4/10 = .40 or 40%
Calculating the angle gives 21.80 degrees.

The gage must be mounted vertically to be accurate.

Best regards, Happy Jack

[MisterE]

Wow, now I am totally lost, when I do it I get 33% for you example for the rise \ run example.

I am guessing the mounting behind the review mirror is a good place so that it reads 0? on level ground.

Sorry for being so dense, like I said I trust the numbers you guys are giving me I just wish I could understand how you get them so I didn't feel so stupid!

[thedieter]

It would be 1/3 = .33 or 33%

You could think of it in terms of the width of the H3, about 6 ft.:
2 ft. higher on one side gives 2/6 = .33 or 33% Hope there are no bumps.

The gage that Neo shows appears to be stuck on the windshield at an angle which induces an error.

Best regards, Happy Jack

[MisterE]

Is this a good link for the math for our application?

http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/9.3.html

[NEOCON1]

read thru this thread also , lots of good stuff :D

http://www.elcovaforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15039

[Agriv8r]

good rule of thumb;

if the door handle is touching the ground, the slope is too much:D

[NEOCON1]

good rule of thumb;

if the door handle is touching the ground, the slope is too much:D


LMAO thats when i back off too :D :D :D

[Agriv8r]

:D :D

[MisterE]

It would be 1/3 = .33 or 33%

You could think of it in terms of the width of the H3, about 6 ft.:
2 ft. higher on one side gives 2/6 = .33 or 33% Hope there are no bumps.

The gage that Neo shows appears to be stuck on the windshield at an angle which induces an error.

Best regards, Happy Jack

Hey All,

I just got the same gage as Neo. If it is stuck at an angle how much error will it induce? I'm looking for the gauge to tell me if I am getting in the danger zone but I'm not going to be staring at it for an exact measurement. Will the angle make it useless or are we talking a degree or two off, which would be fine. As I said I'm just looking for when I've entered the ballpark of being stupid!

[thedieter]

I am going to have to defer to the experienced wheelers since my only experience is from growing up driving on washboard roads.

I have been following this useful Forum to learn what the H3 is capable of.

You could check how much error is induced by putting the gage at different angles and see what the difference is between having the gage face verticle and at an angle at which you are planning to mount it. It looks like the gage has a ball for the indication so it won't suffer from friction.

I don't know when one gets to the stupid point but the door handle dragging may be it. If nothing is dragging, I can't see a problem. :D

Best regards, Happy Jack

[DWPC]

Hey All,

I just got the same gage as Neo. If it is stuck at an angle how much error will it induce? I'm looking for the gauge to tell me if I am getting in the danger zone but I'm not going to be staring at it for an exact measurement. Will the angle make it useless or are we talking a degree or two off, which would be fine. As I said I'm just looking for when I've entered the ballpark of being stupid!
The gauge will always be somewhat off unless you're on a side slope thats level front-to-back, so don't obsess over it. Its best to use it as an "oh sh*t" meter to keep out of trouble, i.e., be conservative. The exact max angle isn't a fixed figure; its very much different for a rig with two people and lunch cooler than for a heavily loaded rig with a load on the roof.

If you flop on your side, its an expensive "oh sh*t"; but if you keep rolling down the hill, I guarantee it'll spoil your day.

[Desert Dan]

You have to calibrate the "Tip O Meter" to compensate for any the lean in the truck. This should be done on level ground with equal air pressure in the tires.

They are fun to look at but usually when I'm in a bad side hill spot I forget to check the angle. I like having the side hill and up and down angle too.

Also the rollover angle will change with bumps, soft shocks, roof rack load, soft ground, low air pressure in the tires, blowing a bead or getting a flat on the down hill side. Not good.

[marin8703]

I dont know if anyone wants to know this anymore but 100% slope by definition is equal to 45 degrees. The formula to convert between percent and degrees is simple.

angle(degrees) = (180/pi)*arctan(%/100) therefore using this formula

degrees = (180/3.14)*arctan(40/100) = 21.80 degrees, and this is how much slope the H3 can handle.

incase anyone wants to use this formula there is no way to calculate it by hand, you need a scientific calculator. pi by definition is about 3.14, and arctan is tangent to the negative one power(or in other words inverse tangent). to use arctan just look for a button on your calc that says something like tan-1.

hope this helps someone.

[PARAGON]

Tiltmeters are a useful part of the overall equation.

The 22 degrees that GM says is the max is a fully loaded vehicle. Every conceivable capacity is at max and then you are off-road. That includeds whatever is the max capacity the roof will hold + max payload including all seats being filled with people, full tank of gas, etc.

I assure you that no one has been at 38 degrees and felt comfortable and felt like their rig had plenty more to go. 38%? Sure. At 35 degrees to the driver's side in my H2, the washer fluid starts to freely run out of the DS spray nozzle and onto the cowling and windshield if the washer fluid reservoir is full.

The Trail Duty tiltmeter is, so far, the most verstile mounting and most accurate meter on the market. It is utilized by the US Government, certain models are used on Nuclear Subs, in the construction biz, etc. The main reason is that the tubes are accurately bent each and every time and it has a very efficient dampening oil in it unlike any of the others. That means the little ball does bounce around and when you glance at it it is still.

[deserth3]

angle(degrees) = (180/pi)*arctan(%/100) therefore using this formula

degrees = (180/3.14)*arctan(40/100) = 21.80 degrees, and this is how much slope the H3 can handle.

OWCH.....PAIN.......Brain Cramp!!!!!:eek: :D

[MisterE]

Thanks for the formula! And thanks for the mounting tips! Also thanks for pointing out that they indicate a full load with stuff uptop, I never run with anything up there (or haven't yet) so I am sure that drops my center of gravity a bit.

Perhaps velco would be better than 2 sided tape then I could adjust to 0 degrees when I am on flat and air down my tires for sand, but then again if I air down equally or close to are we back to the slim margin of error debate again.

Thanks for helping out a newbie, hope one day I have some informaition useful to someone!

[NEOCON1]

Hey All,

I just got the same gage as Neo. If it is stuck at an angle how much error will it induce? I'm looking for the gauge to tell me if I am getting in the danger zone but I'm not going to be staring at it for an exact measurement. Will the angle make it useless or are we talking a degree or two off, which would be fine. As I said I'm just looking for when I've entered the ballpark of being stupid!

do not worrie about not being flat . this has been argued over and over . these are made for sail boats , when sailing the vessel is pitching and yawing at the sametime and it is designed to still give an accurate reading just figure its acurrate to +/_ 5 degrees . you will be fine :D i know i have tested it to the Max :D

[deserth3]

Simple method for figuring out approach and side angle.

If beer is flowing out of the top of the can in the cup holder.

You have gone too far.

[NEOCON1]

Tiltmeters are a useful part of the overall equation.

The 22 degrees that GM says is the max is a fully loaded vehicle. Every conceivable capacity is at max and then you are off-road. That includeds whatever is the max capacity the roof will hold + max payload including all seats being filled with people, full tank of gas, etc.

I assure you that no one has been at 38 degrees and felt comfortable and felt like their rig had plenty more to go. 38%? Sure. At 35 degrees to the driver's side in my H2, the washer fluid starts to freely run out of the DS spray nozzle and onto the cowling and windshield if the washer fluid reservoir is full.

The Trail Duty tiltmeter is, so far, the most verstile mounting and most accurate meter on the market. It is utilized by the US Government, certain models are used on Nuclear Subs, in the construction biz, etc. The main reason is that the tubes are accurately bent each and every time and it has a very efficient dampening oil in it unlike any of the others. That means the little ball does bounce around and when you glance at it it is still.


had mine to 35 also and have the skid marks in my skivies to prove it ;) :p :D

[PARAGON]

Thanks for the formula! And thanks for the mounting tips! Also thanks for pointing out that they indicate a full load with stuff uptop, I never run with anything up there (or haven't yet) so I am sure that drops my center of gravity a bit.

Perhaps velco would be better than 2 sided tape then I could adjust to 0 degrees when I am on flat and air down my tires for sand, but then again if I air down equally or close to are we back to the slim margin of error debate again.

Thanks for helping out a newbie, hope one day I have some informaition useful to someone!3 degrees or so on the meter is not going to be very noticeable visually. 5 degrees is barely noticeable as it is the division marks.

Get your truck to a relatively flat surface like your garage (which have a very slight slope) and then mount it at 0 degrees. Don't worry about any adjustments from there on out.

You really don't care much about the point at which the truck will roll because you shouldn't be venturing very close to that. The gauge should reallly just be used more of a reference than anything else. When you start to get uncomfortable note where you are and if it says 15 degrees and it's mounted properly, then you know you're a weenie. ;) Seriously, you'll learn each time out that you aren't in that bad of a situation when you hear a bunch of people outside screaming and you show only 30 or so degrees.

30 degrees on loose, bumpy trails is way worse than 35 degrees on slick rock. So you have to have common sense as well and just keep everything relative.

[Sewie]

had mine to 35 also and have the skid marks in my skivies to prove it

I'll take your word for it. :eek: http://www.freesmileys.org/emo/sick007.gif :D

[NEOCON1]

Sewie i like that middle smiley guy :D LOL

[Big Z]

There are two common mistakes made when getting a tiltmeter!

First and foremost--Thinking there is another tiltmeter worth getting other than the TrailDuty! :)

And Second--- Not getting "TWO" the first time, and having to re-order one! :)

[NEOCON1]

Simple method for figuring out approach and side angle.

If beer is flowing out of the top of the can in the cup holder.

You have gone too far.

that is with the can half full ;) ;) :D

[deserth3]

that is with the can half full ;) ;) :D

Doesn't matter... Any spilling of beer is not a good thing..:D

[Jesus Christ]

Your faith in me is all the side slope advice you'll ever need.

[NEOCON1]

thanks Jesus and say hi to god for me :D

[NEOCON1]

Doesn't matter... Any spilling of beer is not a good thing..:D

spillage = alcohol abuse ;) :D

[Jesus Christ]

thanks Jesus and say hi to god for me :D

NEOCON,

Your humor has always been good natured. You will do fine my son. Never stray.

[31_bandits]

jesus, you're cracking me up. but ted kennedy is still funnier.

did anybody post a link to this thing? http://www.savannajones.com/products/94050_02.htm

forward and side slopes + compass. if it had a hummer, it would be the cats rear

[PARAGON]

jesus, you're cracking me up. but ted kennedy is still funnier.

did anybody post a link to this thing? http://www.savannajones.com/products/94050_02.htm

forward and side slopes + compass. if it had a hummer, it would be the cats rearproblem is with that type is that they are typically not dampened very well and will just rock back and forth.

pic of mine

[KenP]

problem is with that type is that they are typically not dampened very well and will just rock back and forth.

pic of mineYou've got a bunch of crap in your truck, don't you?;)

[PARAGON]

You've got a bunch of crap in your truck, don't you?;)umm...... who me? not really. It's all useful and very practical and I still have some more stuff to add.;)

[Alan06SUT]

Ok so for all you brainacs here is a quiz. What is the Angle at 35 degrees??? Let see see if I can find an idiot out there to bite on this!

[MovinH2]

problem is with that type is that they are typically not dampened very well and will just rock back and forth.

pic of mine

Very nice set up. :D

[PARAGON]

Ok so for all you brainacs here is a quiz. What is the Angle at 35 degrees??? Let see see if I can find an idiot out there to bite on this!325;)

[FormerJeeper]

Don't waste your time...

The first decent trail you are on will show you how worthless these tilt meters are.

I bought a special one for my first lifted Cherokee and dumped it after the first trail.

It will basically max out each direction every couple of seconds and you really wont have time to keep your eyes on it.

Experience will tell you when you are going to far - usually when you are going down hill, off-camber, and the front shock is fully compressed while the opposite rear wheel is 3 foot off the ground is a good indicator :)

-C

[PARAGON]

Don't waste your time...

The first decent trail you are on will show you how worthless these tilt meters are.

I bought a special one for my first lifted Cherokee and dumped it after the first trail.

It will basically max out each direction every couple of seconds and you really wont have time to keep your eyes on it.

Experience will tell you when you are going to far - usually when you are going down hill, off-camber, and the front shock is fully compressed while the opposite rear wheel is 3 foot off the ground is a good indicator :)

-Cof course, yer stupid

you don't need a compass either, I guess.

How about you stick to subjects you are more familiar with, like anal lube.

[usetosellhummer]

key word is "lifted"
it helps if youknow where yoy need to be. Hummer as stated 22 degrees. I got mone this week from trail duty and it came in two day with great service. Mounted it Today on dash with the cool little mount it comes with. Remember the dash cluster on the H3t concept with a levo built into the cluster with the pic of the Hummer. Someone needs to make it.
I can't find the pic.

[fourfourto]

Its between the tach and the spedo.:cool:

I came across it some time ago and saved it.
I want one:D

[SeattleH3]

Its between the tach and the spedo.:cool:

I came across it some time ago and saved it.
I want one:D
What do you suppose that costs? $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[NEOCON1]

wish we had that :cool:

[Idaho-Hummer]

x2

[marin8703]

are there any plans of producing that cluster? maybe already being sold????:eek: :D

[usetosellhummer]

Thats it bud! the t was at our auto show in april and i got a up-close look. It would be cool if we could get one.

[usetosellhummer]

I was in a meeting 2 years ago with the head of marketing at the time for hummer, he is either gone with Susan D. or what i don't know mike H. was his nmae. He said the H3 t was not going to be built like the concept. the concept has a one piece body. the said the h3 would be re-woked for a pick-up and that at that time the H4 was in mule form?? testing. The H1 deal cought me by surprise. they made me attend 3 diffrent h1 mgt. schools in 3 years. guess it didn't work.

[fourfourto]

I found out wheelin in Ga its too much trouble moving the level gauge, so 2 would be better.
Anyone find a clinometer that can mount from the back to the windshield(above mirror)
The ones on ebay show you can swivel the back flat for mounting ,but when I got one it wouldnt work as seen in there diagram.Resold it im looking for other options.level gauge seems to work and is cheap.

Why does my brothers VW have a clinometer and a air compressor,air lift and hummers do not?
He didnt want to hit the trails with it when in Ga,He went to the mall that day:D

I guess Ill get another level gauge and leave both mounted.

[PARAGON]

I found out wheelin in Ga its too much trouble moving the level gauge, so 2 would be better.
Anyone find a clinometer that can mount from the back to the windshield(above mirror)
The ones on ebay show you can swivel the back flat for mounting ,but when I got one it wouldnt work as seen in there diagram.Resold it im looking for other options.level gauge seems to work and is cheap.

Why does my brothers VW have a clinometer and a air compressor,air lift and hummers do not?
He didnt want to hit the trails with it when in Ga,He went to the mall that day:D

I guess Ill get another level gauge and leave both mounted.if you look up a few posts, you'll see a picture of mine. Just order it from trailduty.com and be done with it.

[fourfourto]

Yeh I have one velcro mounted.I was going to get another.I see you have 2 :D .
I put velcro on my easy pass for side angle.

[fourfourto]

And on the dash for fwd / back angle.

I need a second one so I can see at a glance any angle.

[FormerJeeper]

PARAGON,

Is that an invitation?

How many "hard" trails have you driven and where are they?

Maybe I know a lot more than you m8?

-C

[PARAGON]

PARAGON,

Is that an invitation?

How many "hard" trails have you driven and where are they?

Maybe I know a lot more than you m8?

-CYou don't, I promise you that.

[FormerJeeper]

Interesting post of yours a while ago...

"We didn't need to know your sexual orientation nor your preference for what prejudices you choose to have. In the future, should you choose to continue to enjoy our community, keep those things to yourself.

I think you will find very few posts exlaiming the heterosexual orientation of other members here. If you find something offensive, move on, it doesn't concern you."

Seems to me you might know something about the old anal lube.
Something you want to share? ;)

[PARAGON]

Interesting post of yours a while ago...

"We didn't need to know your sexual orientation nor your preference for what prejudices you choose to have. In the future, should you choose to continue to enjoy our community, keep those things to yourself.

I think you will find very few posts exlaiming the heterosexual orientation of other members here. If you find something offensive, move on, it doesn't concern you."

Seems to me you might know something about the old anal lube.
Something you want to share? ;)I learned all about it from the PM you sent me