Getting out of a ticket

[FishnMan]

:confused: Ok, here's what happened. Going down the highway, I see a pickup pulled over in breakdown lane by two cop cars, lights flashing. I slow down and proceed by (in right lane). Seconds later I see lights flashing behind me and I get pulled over. The cop asks "Do you know why I pulled you over?" Of course, I did not know. He says "you did not pull into the far (left lane) when passing an emergency vehicle "parked" on the side of the road". He said I had plenty of room to change lanes and that I came close to hitting his partner who was out of the vehicle. Well I might have had room to change lanes, but I slowed down and was no way even close to hitting the officer (total BS). So, I get a ticket, no warning ($160...ouch). I am almost 50 y/o and have had only one traffic ticket since getting my licence as a teen...so much for getting a break! Maybe it's because he's never seen an H3 up close!! Anyway, the ticket cited an obscure Alaska Statute # 28.35.185 "Over taking and passing a parked Emergency Vehicle". Hmmm, if i was already in motion, short of stopping on a highway in the middle of traffic, how could I not overtake and pass a vehicle that was pulled off on the side of the road? Doesn't seem to be a very clear citation. Also, the ticket shows the cop wrote a .182, not a .185, which is a totally different offense (failure to stop at direction of peace officer) which was obviously not the issue. Of course, I was VERY polite and just bit my tongue at all of this as I watched the cops daisy chain all the way down the highway, citing vehicle after vehcle. Seems I was not the only one oblivious to this rule! So, I plan on fighting this and here's my defense (not in any particular order):

1. Incorrectly filled out ticket, wrong statute listed for the offense stated.
2. Near spotless 30 plus years driving record...a warning would have sufficed and not affected my ability now to provide for my family
3. This offense is not listed in the Alaska Sate driver training manual (only the rule regarding pulling over and allowing emergency vehicles to pass is).

Are we required to know every State statute? I am a safety compliance officer and there is no way I, or anyone, can ever memorize ALL OSHA, EPA, NFPA, etc regs, we reference, so why must an "everyday" driver know every obscure rule of the road? I believe the State drivers manual should be our bible as that is what our potential drivers are tested on. The manual does not state that we should read and memorize the state statutes as part of being a licensed driver!

Ok, so what am I missing? Any suggestions of how I can fight this ticket?

Thanks all

[marin8703]

I got nothing that can help you out, but that sucks and good luck.:)

[dеiтайожни]

You were supposed to show some leg BEFORE the ticket was written, you're screwed now.

Ok, I kid I kid. Seems like an easy ticket to fight, I think you got it covered.

[Michael1]

I would go to court, and NOT mention anything about the mistake on the citation prior to your court date. The officer CAN correct the citation after the fact. However, if it goes to court with the mistake, you may get it thrown out (it worked for me once). You might even play stupid, and say, "I don't know what I am defending myself against, since there was conflicting information on my ticket."

If you have any lawyer friends, they may be able to work out the best strategy.

Michael

[evldave]

Call the state AG and have the cop fired for incompetence!

Seriously, though, I think nearly all states have that law (Washington does, somewhere hidden in the regulations). You've got everything lined up, I'm sure you will at a minimum get a discount. Emphasize your spotless driving record most of all.

And where were you in Alaska there was a 4 lane highway? That's only Anchorage up to like the Mat-Su valley, right?

[Wisha Haddan H3]

Sorry to hear that fishnman. I'm sure they'll say ignorance of the law is no excuse, but that's a lot of BS.

Going to traffic court in Denver is usually a loss because you give up your automatic plea bargain (lower fine and fewer points for paying early by mail). Unless you just have to show proof of insurance or something, the only way to win is if the officer made a mistake in procedure.

So imo, your officer citing the wrong statute on the ticket is a HUGE plus.

[Mike E]

I would go to court, and NOT mention anything about the mistake on the citation prior to your court date. The officer CAN correct the citation after the fact. However, if it goes to court with the mistake, you may get it thrown out (it worked for me once). You might even play stupid, and say, "I don't know what I am defending myself against, since there was conflicting information on my ticket."

If you have any lawyer friends, they may be able to work out the best strategy.

Michael

^^What he says. Mistakes on tickets will get it thrown out but don't bring it up until you get to court and play the confused route.

[f5fstop]

1. Will not always work for the same reason you stated under your explanation of your job. Do you know every reg number issued by the government? No, and the officer doesn't either. However, that does not mean you don't know something is illegal, and the same goes for the officer.
2. Will sometimes work the best. Some states such as TN will allow you to attend a half-day driver's ed class, and then the ticket is voided if no other moving violation is obtained in six months. In MI, usually the judge will dismiss with the same caveat as above in regard to another citation in six months.
3. No, ignorance is no excuse, and that is a fact, an any Judge I ever knew or met, hated people saying, "I didn't know that was illegal."

Most states have that law (might be all). I believe when I lived in TN, and they instituted that law two or three years ago, it was stated in the paper that by the end of that year, every state would have that law.

It has never affected me, since I have always pulled into another lane, if possible. If not possible, I slow way down just out of courtesy to the officer out there on the road. (Laws usually say you have to change lane or if that is not possible due to safety, or it is a two-lane hwy, you must slow down considerably.)

Just to let you know, these laws also pertain to any emergency vehicle, including tow trucks with their flashers On.

I would go with Option 2 and stress you thought you had slowed down to a speed that did not put the officer in jeopardy. (And hope the Judge got lucky the night before and is in a good mood.):D

[Craig]

1. Your first idea has the greatest potential of getting you out of the ticket. Just make sure you know you are right before you try to argue it and have a back-up plan incase it doesn?t.

2. The only way your second idea will work for you is if you go with the deferred disposition or defensive driving. Other than that, having a ?near spotless? driving record won?t get you anywhere. Don?t even mention the word ?warning? because if warnings were only issued the courthouse wouldn?t be in business.

3. Don?t even try this one! True true true?.ignorance of the law is no excuse in all traffic laws. It?s an excuse they hear too much so I wouldn?t advise even mentioning it.


The law does sound like a chicken sh*t one. HOWEVER, it is a very important law that should be followed by everyone. It is more of a common sense thing than anything else. It should be a common courtesy no matter who is pulled over on the side of the road (cop, stranded motorist, construction crew?etc). As long as your head is anywhere but up your a*s, you should be able to move over long before you get to them.
It?s hard to understand the true value of this law unless you are on the side of the road with potentially deadly machines flying by you.

[deserth3]

No help here.

Utah law states 10 mph under or move over. Started a couple of years ago and made a big deal of it so it was hard not to know about it. But at least a few times a year you hear about an officer being hit or almost hit. Usualy the news will show the video from the police car cam.
Good Luck.

[Grape Ape]

In Michigan we have a similar law that was passed about 3 years ago. Too many police officers, firemen and EMT's have been getting creamed on the freeways.
In 14 years in I have never seen a citation dismissed because the statute number was wrong. The officier in court will testify to the offense written on the citation and the circumstances, not the statute number.
Good luck on claiming ignorance of the law....never saw that one work either.
I dont know about AK, but in Michigan a lot of courts will let you plead to a non reportable to driving record/no points charge if you have a good driving record. This stops you from getting raped later by your insurance company.
I am not sure about the AK drivers manual but the Michigan Motor vehicle code book is about 300 pages thick and has amendments all the time.
My advice is to see if you can work out a deal with either the officer or the prosecutor before you go into the courtroom.

[Steve - SanJose]

Good luck on this one.

S.

[DarthKarl]

Damn shame Walc doesn't post anymore :rolleyes:

[BABHUMV]

Here is a trick I learned. When and if the fine finalizes, overpay it by 5 dollars. When they send you a refund, do not cash the refund check. Therefore the item never clears their books and the ticket does not get recorded.

I tried it in CA once, still haven't seen the ticket on my record:) .

Good luck, sounds like the cop was just having a bad day.

[f5fstop]

Here is a trick I learned. When and if the fine finalizes, overpay it by 5 dollars. When they send you a refund, do not cash the refund check. Therefore the item never clears their books and the ticket does not get recorded.

I tried it in CA once, still haven't seen the ticket on my record:) .

Good luck, sounds like the cop was just having a bad day.

Had a friend try that for a ticket in KY: didn't work.:D

[PARAGON]

Here's a trick I learned.

F'ing pull over. It's coming sense. Not just for emergency vehicles but trucks, cars that a broken down, what ever. It kills me watching people drive 55 MPH right by 5 or 6 feet away from a car stopped on the side of the road w/o regard for the person changing the tire or the fact the LEO might have to take off running.

On a 4 lane interstate, I pull over, even if that means speeding up or slowing down to merge into the traffic.

[Dirtdog74H1]

I'm impressed fishnman with your thread. All you have to do is put that much effort and time into your court hearing as you did writing that thread!
The long and short of it is that your only recourse now is to take a hearing, plead not guilty; the judge may reduce it or the officer may give you a break. I always amend my tickets at district court. 2, if you know any officers in your area or any relatives that are cops, have them call this jerk off and ask a favor. I honor phone calls all the time from other officers. Its good that you caught the incorrect section cited. I wouldn't go in to court with all your marbles hanging on the couple things your made reference to.

Your best bet is to ask nicely for a break from the officer or judge. Don't play hard ball with insufficiant facts. When you sign for you operatos license from the DMV, you are implying that you understand and will follow all the laws of the commonwealth. I know its bull****, but thats how the courts will look at it.
Good luck
Bret
PA

[thedieter]

I looked in the California Driver Manual and couldn't find anything about changing lanes while going past stopped cars, etc. It may be a good idea but with the traffic around here, it could be more dangerous to change lanes.

It did mention double fines in construction zones.

This is a new one on me (changing lanes).:confused:

Best regards, Happy Jack

[HummerNewbie]

I have no idea if it a law down here or not but I have always pull over at least one lane when passing an emergency or disabled vehicle when possible. If changing lanes is not possible I slow down.

[Bully13]

Here's a trick I learned.

F'ing pull over. It's coming sense. Not just for emergency vehicles but trucks, cars that a broken down, what ever. It kills me watching people drive 55 MPH right by 5 or 6 feet away from a car stopped on the side of the road w/o regard for the person changing the tire or the fact the LEO might have to take off running.

On a 4 lane interstate, I pull over, even if that means speeding up or slowing down to merge into the traffic.
dayum... Kick the man while he's down ;)

Truth be had though most of us don't think about that stuff (including me). It's nice to see a Hummer driver actully set a good example rather than be a total jackass like the Hummer mall rats that are everywhere.

Fishn, hope you are able get out of yer ticket. Keep us posted though. No ones perfect. :)

[azsidewinder]

They are cracking down on that law in Arizona its called the gore point law. Its a warning here in Arizona now, but soon they will begin fining for it. 8 cops have been killed in 2 years here with someone pulled over and getting run over or rear ended sending all the cars in the cops direction.

[lotus4s]

I have no idea if it a law down here or not

It is a law here in Fla, just passed in the last year or so...

[HummerHippy]

OK, so you messed up a bit. Now we try to minimize the end result. With a good driving record, I suggest going to court, talking to the assist DA or who ever is prosecuting the case, before the trial. Explain the circumstances why you didn't pull over, what you did do correctly (slowing down, etc), your spotless driving record, express that you are sorry, and ask if it could be reduced to a non moving violation (bad tire, bad muffler). You'll pay a fine and not have the insurance issue.

Good luck.

NY just added this law in the last couple years as well.

[Agriv8r]

seeing all the vids about cops and such being hit, go to court state your case take your medicine...:(

[Disnydad]

Recent law here too.

[thedieter]

I searched through the entire list of numbered citations from California DMV web site and couldn't find it listed.

From that I would assume there is no law here as yet.

If anyone has information, I would like to know as I don't like to be blind-sided.

It is good to have this heads up about the law in other states which I wouldn't have known about otherwise.

Best regards, Happy Jack

[entheos]

These laws on pulling over for emergency vehicles are just such a joke. Sure it is courteous to slow down and /or move to the next available lane when approaching emergency vehicles on the side of the road, and most people do this. But because Cops or some other law enforcement show showed some drunk plowing into a police car and got it on their video system, They easily lobby legislatures to protect those officers who are on the side of the road for 20 minutes at a time.

But for road workers (including laborers, technicians, and professionals) who work on the side of the road for hours at a time (usually not for major work which usually are properly delineated) to conduct site investigations, soil borings, or sign maintenance and only have a weak yellow flashing light and maybe a couple of signs that say "Men Working" or the like, get no courtesy law at all!!!

I'll bet if they did have a law that protected them a cop wouldn't be out there waiting for someone to slow down but not move over and give them a ticket.

Aren't there already laws that say you can't hit cars and people along the road? Self-serving legislatures!

[smh3]

Ignorance is bliss for those who dont work in a dangerous enviroment. You sit behind your desk and thisnk your stress levels are rising becuase your coffee what ever is not at the right tempurature. Pull head from where ever and have some common sense. Stop whining because you got a ticket:have to move over for a police officer or that worker,grandma on the interstate. These people who are shining are the same people who gripe that the police didnt sto the vandals or thieves who broke into their home or car. oh ya they didnt get there fast enough either. They are also the onew who whine about the road being rough and traffic being bad. Let me remind those who think getting a ticket for common sense issues like not moving over for a cop is the end of the world, DRIVING IS A PREVILIGE! NOT A RIGHT!. i hope the cop or fireman these people kill dont need that cop or fireman to someday save their lives. God bless and long live things like Hummers. A cop!:)

[evldave]

Ignorance is bliss for those who dont work in a dangerous enviroment. You sit behind your desk and thisnk your stress levels are rising becuase your coffee what ever is not at the right tempurature. Pull head from where ever and have some common sense. Stop whining because you got a ticket:have to move over for a police officer or that worker,grandma on the interstate. These people who are shining are the same people who gripe that the police didnt sto the vandals or thieves who broke into their home or car. oh ya they didnt get there fast enough either. They are also the onew who whine about the road being rough and traffic being bad. Let me remind those who think getting a ticket for common sense issues like not moving over for a cop is the end of the world, DRIVING IS A PREVILIGE! NOT A RIGHT!. i hope the cop or fireman these people kill dont need that cop or fireman to someday save their lives. God bless and long live things like Hummers. A cop!:)

As an expert on posting drunk, I can say you are quite wasted, aren't you?

[Craig]

Enthios.....I'm sure your state has a law similar to the one here in Texas. The law strongly supports the construction workers on the side of the road. In a construction zone here in Texas the speed limit is lowerd and the fines for moving violations within the construction zone are DOUBLED...YES DOUBLED. Maybe your state doesn't have those laws for the constuction workers, but I would guess that u are one of the one's driving with your head up your a$$ and just haven't noticed the signs.
It sounds like you're just bitter......had a ticket or two in the past???

[entheos]

Enthios.....I'm sure your state has a law similar to the one here in Texas. The law strongly supports the construction workers on the side of the road. In a construction zone here in Texas the speed limit is lowerd and the fines for moving violations within the construction zone are DOUBLED...YES DOUBLED. Maybe your state doesn't have those laws for the constuction workers, but I would guess that u are one of the one's driving with your head up your a$$ and just haven't noticed the signs.
It sounds like you're just bitter......had a ticket or two in the past???

I resign from this forum not that anyone cares. I won't since I won't ever be reading ignorant replies to posts like this. And except for a few good posters like f5stop, if someone asks innocent questions like how to improve their mileage or stand up for laws to protect road workers, all they get is a bunch of name calling and immature posts that we must wade through to get to real information on the H3. FYI, I have worked on the road next to speeding traffic in Michigan that has double traffic fines & prison terms for those that injure or kill a worker. Those laws do not apply to unofficial inspection, engineering, and soil investigations (borings) where a work zone would be too costly to set up or unnecessarily impede traffic (These decisions are made by people higher up than workers on the road). All I was saying is that the legislatures in their zeal to be seen as friends of the police and "law & order" make a law to protect the police that they themselves enforce. I don't blame the police at all for trying to protect themselves. I do blame the legislature for being so self-serving so they can remain in office and ignore others that are just as much if not more in danger along our highways. I was doing soil borings once and saw more than girl just notice us last second and swerve to avoid us. I would have been happy if people just slowed up a bit, and not complained that obey the letter of the law.

Fishnman didn't deserve that ticket. Creig who cannot spell any better than he reads must be a low-life political operative who accuses and calls names of others out of habit deserves a caution sign in front of his residence: "Redneck with an Internet Connection". Go back to your case of Blatz.

Out.

[PARAGON]

I resign from this forum not that anyone cares. I won't since I won't ever be reading ignorant replies to posts like this. And except for a few good posters like f5stop, if someone asks innocent questions like how to improve their mileage or stand up for laws to protect road workers, all they get is a bunch of name calling and immature posts that we must wade through to get to real information on the H3. FYI, I have worked on the road next to speeding traffic in Michigan that has double traffic fines & prison terms for those that injure or kill a worker. Those laws do not apply to unofficial inspection, engineering, and soil investigations (borings) where a work zone would be too costly to set up or unnecessarily impede traffic (These decisions are made by people higher up than workers on the road). All I was saying is that the legislatures in their zeal to be seen as friends of the police and "law & order" make a law to protect the police that they themselves enforce. I don't blame the police at all for trying to protect themselves. I do blame the legislature for being so self-serving so they can remain in office and ignore others that are just as much if not more in danger along our highways. I was doing soil borings once and saw more than girl just notice us last second and swerve to avoid us. I would have been happy if people just slowed up a bit, and not complained that obey the letter of the law.

Fishnman didn't deserve that ticket. Creig who cannot spell any better than he reads must be a low-life political operative who accuses and calls names of others out of habit deserves a caution sign in front of his residence: "Redneck with an Internet Connection". Go back to your case of Blatz.

Out.Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out. Idiot!

How many soil boring putz's been killed by a car on a highway in the US in the last 20 years?

[Craig]

Your resignation is accepted?.

[FishnMan]

Ignorance is bliss for those who dont work in a dangerous enviroment. You sit behind your desk and thisnk your stress levels are rising becuase your coffee what ever is not at the right tempurature. Pull head from where ever and have some common sense. Stop whining because you got a ticket:have to move over for a police officer or that worker,grandma on the interstate. These people who are shining are the same people who gripe that the police didnt sto the vandals or thieves who broke into their home or car. oh ya they didnt get there fast enough either. They are also the onew who whine about the road being rough and traffic being bad. Let me remind those who think getting a ticket for common sense issues like not moving over for a cop is the end of the world, DRIVING IS A PREVILIGE! NOT A RIGHT!. i hope the cop or fireman these people kill dont need that cop or fireman to someday save their lives. God bless and long live things like Hummers. A cop!:)

Have another donut and keep your drunkin dribble to yourself. I only asked for some feedback, so don't lecture me!. As a cop, you should understand that giving a ticket with conflicting information (Violation title with the wrong code number listed) means a day in court, and I WILL beat it! The law here gives two situations when a cops is on side of the road on what to do...., and when it says do this "or" do that, I can't be cited for doing one or the other. I slowed down, as opposed to pull into the far lane. So, we will let a judge decide.

And FYI....here in Alaska, I don't need a cop to protect me from a vandal or thief...we carry our own justice here! Oh, and one last thing, I drive a Hummer, why would I complain about a rough road? Maybe you've hit one too many pot holes on Acadamy Blvd? :eek:

11 Mile Resevoir rules!!!

[dеiтайожни]

Fishnman didn't deserve that ticket. Creig who cannot spell any better than he reads must be a low-life political operative who accuses and calls names of others out of habit deserves a caution sign in front of his residence: "Redneck with an Internet Connection". Go back to your case of Blatz.

Out.

Entheos -- I'm sick of your childish name-calling, this forum would be so much easier to read if all your attack posts were just deleted. Thank you for recognizing your negative impact on our community and leaving.

[Steve - SanJose]

wtf was all that... Bye.


S.

[smh3]

Fishnman, I was not trying to lecture you nor was I drunk. Maybe I should drink but I don't. No excuses but it was a long day. I had to pickup, more like scoop up, another dead person on our roads that day. My beef is not with you for asking but for those who complain about common sense laws. Reference your ticket. The error with the conflicting information, violation title with the wrong code number listed, can be amended by the officer in court at least here in Colorado. Our law states if you can change lanes you must but if not you must slow down. If the citation was given in error by the cop, I do hope you win! "A bad day of fishing is better than a good day at work!":)

[FishnMan]

No Problem smh3, thx:o

[f5fstop]

These laws on pulling over for emergency vehicles are just such a joke. Sure it is courteous to slow down and /or move to the next available lane when approaching emergency vehicles on the side of the road, and most people do this. But because Cops or some other law enforcement show showed some drunk plowing into a police car and got it on their video system, They easily lobby legislatures to protect those officers who are on the side of the road for 20 minutes at a time.

But for road workers (including laborers, technicians, and professionals) who work on the side of the road for hours at a time (usually not for major work which usually are properly delineated) to conduct site investigations, soil borings, or sign maintenance and only have a weak yellow flashing light and maybe a couple of signs that say "Men Working" or the like, get no courtesy law at all!!!

I'll bet if they did have a law that protected them a cop wouldn't be out there waiting for someone to slow down but not move over and give them a ticket.

Aren't there already laws that say you can't hit cars and people along the road? Self-serving legislatures!

Yes, I try and stay neutral, but the laws, in every state, do not just say law enforcment, they say for any type of emergency vehicle, and that includes tow truck drivers, fireman, ambulance driver/technicians, etc.

I have read your post a few times, and I cannot understand where you are coming from; and really don't care.

Goodbye....