New info on the Front Diffs

[HummBebe]

I might need someone to verify before I go forward....


I spoke with a very knowledgable person at the Salt Lake Hummer Dealer. He said the first thing I need to do if I am going to keep wheeling like this is to replace my front and rear ring and pinion gears with Yukons (as in GM). He said either 488's or 513's. If this pans out.....we could have a fix.

F5fstop.....can you verify?

[PARAGON]

I'm not so sure I agree, Phil. If it spun the teeth off the ring gear while stationary, it means there was enough torque flowing through to the pinion to do the job but the ring was not able to handle the torque and make the tires break free and spin over. (this according to what everyone said happened)

A truck "should" have enough strength to break the tires loose if the truck is immovable without breaking something in the drivetrain as long as it's not a jerk on the drivetrain, ie dumping a clutch. Static load vs. dynamic load.

Now, I have no idea if going to a lower gear ratio would solve this if the gear itself is too weak to handle the load.

I'm not real sure about this one.

[NoMoGMPG]

Originally posted by HummBebe:
I might need someone to verify before I go forward....


I spoke with a very knowledgable person at the Salt Lake Hummer Dealer. He said the first thing I need to do if I am going to keep wheeling like this is to replace my front and rear ring and pinion gears with Yukons (as in GM). He said either 488's or 513's. If this pans out.....we could have a fix.

F5fstop.....can you verify?

Bebe,
It was very clear to me that crawl ratio is not the issue here, it is gear material strength. It appears that the gears are too brittle for high impact driving, so the 'fix' would be a stronger material. As an example, the ring and pinion gears used in a 200 HP S10 Blazer 7.625" differential are exactly identical physically to an SS Camaro LS1 with 330 HP. The difference is that the Camaro gears are made for high impact driving. They are made to absorb the shock by being more resilient.

I would venture to say that GM will probably come out with a different material replacement R&P for vehicles with your 'symptoms'. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[NEOCON1]

hey phil , bebe and i are wondering if they ment the gears for a yukon or gears from a company called yukon ?

and thanks for the input NoMo maybe we should be looking for a stronger material http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

thanks guys

still in moab http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif drinkin beers

[PARAGON]

Interesting info NoMo. AAM has something called PowerDense ring/pinions they are using in the front (I don't know about the back). I don't like the idea of something that has to have a special name to do something it is already supposed to do.

Anyway, Phil, I think you and I are on the same page. I just couldn't necessarily see that a lower gear ratio would mean a stronger gear, but could see how it would break the tires free sooner, but that's as far as I could make it. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Here is a link to some more info that was started in the H3 tech section on this:

http://elcova.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/4871031121/m/9351068971

[f5fstop]

Originally posted by PhilD:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NoMoGMPG:
the 'fix' would be a stronger material. That is good advice, stronger gears of the same ratio is a far better idea than the dealers on of running 5.13's. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would have to vote for stronger gears too. From surfing through this thread and many others, my first glance is a hardening problem. But I will see what I can find out...unofficially.

[HummBebe]

Originally posted by f5fstop:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PhilD:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NoMoGMPG:
the 'fix' would be a stronger material. That is good advice, stronger gears of the same ratio is a far better idea than the dealers on of running 5.13's. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would have to vote for stronger gears too. From surfing through this thread and many others, my first glance is a hardening problem. But I will see what I can find out...unofficially. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks, I appreciate everyone's opinions on this.

Going from a 4:56 with 35" tires to 4:88's with 35" tires, may not make that much more of a difference. But I appreciate the comments. BebeRhino is my daily driver, however most of it is city, or congested freeways. No real need for high speeds.

As long as the Yukons are a stronger material, I may still look at this as a viable option.

Someone has to be a guinea pig http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[ketcat]

Just my 2 cents.....

4.88:1 with 35's puts you back to about stock with 33's so that sounds good. Problem is the lower (higher numerically) the gear the more teeth which equals less metal per tooth so in theory with all things being equal a 4.88:1 is weaker than a 4.56:1.

As I recall the H1 uses an AMC model 20 differential which was used in CJ’s etc……and not known to be the most durable differential in the world especially the two piece axles. The reason it holds together in an H1 is because they run a 2.56:1 or 2.73:1 gear ratio and multiply at the geared hub.

My opinion if people are breaking gears finding stronger ones is a good idea but I’m not sure going to a lower gear is the best idea. At least if it’s stock the dealer will warranty it for 50k miles.

[HummerNewbie]

Originally posted by f5fstop:
...my first glance is a hardening problem.

Here is a shot in the dark but how close were the built dates on Neo's and Bebe's rigs? Could it possibly be that there was a problem in the production/hardening of these gears and by dumb luck, they both had gears from this batch? Sorry Bebe and Neo, just looking for a silver lining for the rest of us http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

[CLAYDOG]

Originally posted by HummerNewbie:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by f5fstop:
...my first glance is a hardening problem.

Here is a shot in the dark but how close were the built dates on Neo's and Bebe's rigs? Could it possibly be that there was a problem in the production/hardening of these gears and by dumb luck, they both had gears from this batch? Sorry Bebe and Neo, just looking for a silver lining for the rest of us http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

My feeling is, this is likely the problem, and wouldn't afect most owners unless they're really pushing the truck hard. Something as straight forward as a high load ring gear failure would have shown up in preproduction testing if it was a design issue and not a manufacturing issue.

[Desert Dan]

HummBebe

I missed the story on how you broke the gears.

Do you have an auto or 5-speed and do you have 35" tires?

KetKat is right about the 4.88's having smaller (more) teeth on the gears. Also with lower gears in the diff and bigger tires the cv joint might start to blow??

Also if you change out the front you have to do the rear (not under waranty) too.

[HummerJim]

I agree with the previous posts. You are going to be very unhappy with that high a numerical ratio on the road, unless this is for offroad use only. When you go with the stronger gears, everything needs beefing up in the drivetrain. Years of drag racing has proven to me, that EVERYTHING in the drivetrain must be compatible or the weakest link will break. I've seen universals twist off of driveshafts, transmission splines stripped, pinion gears without teeth etc. It's boils down to how fast you unload the torque to the drivetrain from the engine, and I would just go with stronger diff gears. Quaife will make you berylium hardened gear sets that are virtually indestructible, but they are VERY EXPENSIVE and then you have to wonder if the transfer case, tranny or clutch, driveshaft etc will handle that torque.

[cestwick]

Hello all..new to forum first post but I thought I would put in my 2 cents. I am a Hummer tech in Sioux Falls SD. We have only had one H3 blow a front diff here. Actually happened on our Demo out on the test track. Truck had 800 miles on it. Got stuck in the mogals (snow and mud) we hooked a chain and pulled it out. Very little if any wheel spin but it was in 4low and as soon as front wheels got to solid ground all the torque was at the front and it shaved the teeth right off the ring gear. Last Dec. I was in South Bend talking to several other techs and at that time the only bigger things they were fixing was the front diff's. Like has been eluded to previously I believe the problemm is week material in the ring gear. I used to build and race 4X4's in the mud and clay of florida and we had trucks with a 1000 hp that never broke ring and pinions.

[NEOCON1]

Originally posted by HummerNewbie:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by f5fstop:
...my first glance is a hardening problem.

Here is a shot in the dark but how close were the built dates on Neo's and Bebe's rigs? Could it possibly be that there was a problem in the production/hardening of these gears and by dumb luck, they both had gears from this batch? Sorry Bebe and Neo, just looking for a silver lining for the rest of us http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


hey newbie , you may be on to something there , bebe and i both got our trucks early in the production run . not sure of production dates we have both had our trucks since aug. 05

[NEOCON1]

Originally posted by Desert Dan:
HummBebe

I missed the story on how you broke the gears.

Do you have an auto or 5-speed and do you have 35" tires?

KetKat is right about the 4.88's having smaller (more) teeth on the gears. Also with lower gears in the diff and bigger tires the cv joint might start to blow??

Also if you change out the front you have to do the rear (not under waranty) too.

hey dan , we were trying to get up a set of steps between waist and chest high a its a pretty gnarly obstacle . we both have auto's , adventures and 35's .

ther are alot of details in the h2 area under 06 moab thread .

still in moab drinkin beers http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[f5fstop]

Originally posted by NEOCON1:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HummerNewbie:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by f5fstop:
...my first glance is a hardening problem.

Here is a shot in the dark but how close were the built dates on Neo's and Bebe's rigs? Could it possibly be that there was a problem in the production/hardening of these gears and by dumb luck, they both had gears from this batch? Sorry Bebe and Neo, just looking for a silver lining for the rest of us http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


hey newbie , you may be on to something there , bebe and i both got our trucks early in the production run . not sure of production dates we have both had our trucks since aug. 05 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

VINs are ok, but I would like to track the date stamp on the axles. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[HummerNewbie]

Originally posted by cestwick:
I used to build and race 4X4's in the mud and clay of florida ...

Thanks for the input and welcome to the forum. Now I have a question for you. Where the hell is there to wheel in FL?!?! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Not looking for mud runs but looking for good placed to get some all around wheeling fun in. I know there are more than a few of us that would like to know.

[f5fstop]

One question for Neo and Bebe, did you have traction control turned Off?
Also, was a front wheel in the air, and then it hit rock, or were both on the ground when the axle took a dump?

[NEOCON1]

hey f5 , we were in low with rear locked tractin cotrol off message is always shown for me when in 4 low we were BTMing with all four tires on the ground .

thanks for the input on all this .

[FormerJeeper]

Sounds like the front diff is as weak as ARB were claimimg.

Can one say solid front axle swap?

-C

[cestwick]

Thanks for the welcome Newbie. Most of what we did was mud runs but when we went out to play we used to camp and wheel in the Oceola national forest. Find a campsite, pick a trail and see where it goes. Obveously not as good rough stuff but we had fun. I had a 79 Blazer, 38" swampers 383 stroker and 4:56's. It would do a 200' mud hole in 5 seconds.

[Sewie]

Originally posted by NEOCON1:
hey f5 , we were in low with rear locked tractin cotrol off message is always shown for me when in 4 low we were BTMing with all four tires on the ground .


If mine broke when I think it did, I was doing the same thing. Only difference was I was on a dirt/gravel ledge, not on slickrock.

BTW, I got my truck last July, around the same time as Bebe and Neo.

[HummerNewbie]

Originally posted by cestwick:
Thanks for the welcome Newbie. Most of what we did was mud runs but when we went out to play we used to camp and wheel in the Oceola national forest. Find a campsite, pick a trail and see where it goes. Obveously not as good rough stuff but we had fun. I had a 79 Blazer, 38" swampers 383 stroker and 4:56's. It would do a 200' mud hole in 5 seconds.

Thanks, I have looked into going to Oceola.

[HummBebe]

Originally posted by f5fstop:
One question for Neo and Bebe, did you have traction control turned Off?
Also, was a front wheel in the air, and then it hit rock, or were both on the ground when the axle took a dump?

Yes.
When the truck is in 4lo lock with the rear locker on, the Stabilitrak system is turned off. Both of my wheels, front and rear were on the ground. I was essentially crawling up when mine spun.

[HummerNewbie]

Originally posted by Alec W:
You have 35s too if I am not mistaken?

I have my opinion and think the H3s drive train is weaker then the input power vs. output resistance. But… I wonder if 35s is what’s making the difference.


I guess time will tell us.

Oh sure, just repeat what I said http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Sewie]

Originally posted by Alec W:

You have 35s too if I am not mistaken?


Not yet. But I had planned on getting them before going to Moab in August.

[f5fstop]

I personally cannot go into great detail on this subject. I can say that there are very few reports of broken front diffs similar to that in the photo from Bebe.
I believe, traction control is active until it is manually turned off. However, stability control is deactivated automatically when the transfer case is shifted into 4-wheel low lock. These are two different systems, even if controlled basically by the same computer.
However, if no one turned the TC off manually, then the TC was operational, and that solves that question.

[PARAGON]

It's apparent that there are is not some widespread issue with the front diffs. What's sort of wierd is that there were probably other things that Bebe and Neo did that one would think would have popped the ring long before they made it to the stairs that day.

I think someone on one of the threads probably hit on the likely issue. It sounds like maybe there could be a ring or two here and there that was not "hardened", or whatever the process is, to the degree others are and to where it should be.

I doubt we see this occur very often.

[ketcat]

I don’t know if the gears were hardened correctly or not but I do know this has happened more then we have discussed. I can’t be specific but I heard about a couple of issues in the PHX area back in September.

People might not like me for this but I think the differential is too small. We are talking about a 4900 lb vehicle with 33” to 35” tires and a 56:1 to 69:1 crawl ratio. That’s a lot of traction, weight and torque multiplication for a 7.2” ring gear to handle.

A Dana 30 which is larger and is probably stronger than the differential in the front of an H3 is marginal in a TJ with 33’s. That’s why Rubicon’s have Dana 44’s front and rear and they run 31’s from the factory.

Someone mentioned SAS which is what I’m thinking although I’m not sure how feasible it is. High pinion Dana 44, 4 link and coilovers.

I love my Hummer but am not going to be left stranded in the Mountains. I'll fix the problem or get an H2 or H1 which I am seriously considering before I walk home. I can fix a tie rod on the trail but not a differential.

[PARAGON]

Originally posted by ketcat:
I don’t know if the gears were hardened correctly or not but I do know this has happened more then we have discussed. I can’t be specific but I heard about a couple of issues in the PHX area back in September.

People might not like me for this but I think the differential is too small. We are talking about a 4900 lb vehicle with 33” to 35” tires and a 56:1 to 69:1 crawl ratio. That’s a lot of traction, weight and torque multiplication for a 7.2” ring gear to handle.

A Dana 30 which is larger and is probably stronger than the differential in the front of an H3 is marginal in a TJ with 33’s. That’s why Rubicon’s have Dana 44’s front and rear and they run 31’s from the factory.

Someone mentioned SAS which is what I’m thinking although I’m not sure how feasible it is. High pinion Dana 44, 4 link and coilovers.

I love my Hummer but am not going to be left stranded in the Mountains. I'll fix the problem or get an H2 or H1 which I am seriously considering before I walk home. I can fix a tie rod on the trail but not a differential. From all accounts you can count on your fingers and maybe toes how many times this has occured throughout all of testing and the thousands and thousands of vehicles that are out on the road now. If it was a stress reason, it's likely you would see the rings shattering. With the type of damage occuring it leads to a flaw in the gear itself.

This was not a grenading of the diff, this was spinning teeth off and is a completely different animal than what is normally seen.

A Dana 60 up front won't make any difference if the gears aren't properly hardened due to some impurity in the process.

I will promise you this. You do a SAS and get into other mods to do wheeling and you WILL be stranded because you are going to break something. It's just the nature of wheeling and you don't have the R&D budget that GM does to figure out what works and what doesn't at the cost of breaking things.

Blowing the front diff does not end your day. If you can do a SAS and fix a tie rod then you should be able to pull half shafts and the front driveline and drive it out in rear drive only.

[NEOCON1]

there are alot of opinions going around . one thing is anyone not with us or not familiar with golden stairs are thinking we were just driving . these steps were vertical and waist to chest high . no one should ever try anything close to this alone . the only trucks we saw were rock buggies and seriously modded jeeps . it is rated the third hardest run in the moab bible http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif this trail has broken 1's 2's an 3's now

loaner white 3 with a little bling

[hmrlvr]

loaner white 3 with a little bling
LMAO http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
come home soon

[NEOCON1]

i dont want to come home man i want to get back to moab ASAP that place is amazing you gotta come with us in AUG. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[PackerFever]

August??? Holy Crapoli! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Its like the hottest time of year. Hot Hot Hot.

[HUMTECH]

Correct, an H-1 uses esentially an AMC model 20, actually A very strong differential just got the bad name as you said the 2 piece axles were the problem. A model 20 has A 8 7/8" ring gear which is only an 1/8 smaller than A ford 9" just doesn't have A pinion pilot bearing to steady the pinion gear like the 9". As for using A lower gear ratio to try to increase strength is backwards. the lower the ratio the smaller the pinion gear gets and creates A new weak point but at the same time requires less input torque to rotate the tires so it's kinda A catch 22 situation.Originally posted by ketcat:
Just my 2 cents.....

4.88:1 with 35's puts you back to about stock with 33's so that sounds good. Problem is the lower (higher numerically) the gear the more teeth which equals less metal per tooth so in theory with all things being equal a 4.88:1 is weaker than a 4.56:1.

As I recall the H1 uses an AMC model 20 differential which was used in CJ’s etc……and not known to be the most durable differential in the world especially the two piece axles. The reason it holds together in an H1 is because they run a 2.56:1 or 2.73:1 gear ratio and multiply at the geared hub.

My opinion if people are breaking gears finding stronger ones is a good idea but I’m not sure going to a lower gear is the best idea. At least if it’s stock the dealer will warranty it for 50k miles.

[Bully13]

Originally posted by PackerFever:
August??? Holy Crapoli! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Its like the hottest time of year. Hot Hot Hot.

Yeah! Gonna be great! Getting stuck and then sweating up a storm. Watchout for desert colored H1s

[ketcat]

I’ve been wheeling for a long time, have had a lot of 4x4’s from a variety of manufacturers, work in the auto industry and have seen a bunch of broken differentials. I’m not anti Hummer and or pro Jeep in fact as I mentioned the Dana 30 (and Dana 35) are probably not up to any type of hard wheeling with larger tires even when upgraded.

You are correct defective gear's in a Dana 60 or what ever can cause a failure. From what I have read we are all guessing what caused the problem, at this point it‘s unknown why they broke.

As I said before the front differential in my opinion is rather small for extreme four wheeling in a 4900 lb vehicle with 33”+ tires and a 55:1+ crawl ratio. Which is why I am considering an H2 or H1. Not that they don’t break, they do.

Pulling a driveline and half shafts is no big deal but I would still rather replace a tie rod. BTW I was not referring to replacing a tie rod on an SAS H3 or saying I was going to do one. I’m sure some off road shops will be or already are working on that. I was saying that I am thinking of getting an H2 or H1 and that I would rather bent a tie rod than blow a diff.

As for the type of terrain they were on when the diff’s broke I’ve been to Moab, in fact my first 4x4 trip with the H3 was to Moab June of 05. I’ve not been on the Golden Stairs but have heard about the difficulty and am sure you could break just about anything on that obstacle. I’m certain the H3 can go off road a bunch and never have a problem. I’ve been on a bunch of trails in AZ, CO, UT and ID with out incident. I'm not anti H3, I love mine!

[f5fstop]

Originally posted by PARAGON:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ketcat:
I don’t know if the gears were hardened correctly or not but I do know this has happened more then we have discussed. I can’t be specific but I heard about a couple of issues in the PHX area back in September.

People might not like me for this but I think the differential is too small. We are talking about a 4900 lb vehicle with 33” to 35” tires and a 56:1 to 69:1 crawl ratio. That’s a lot of traction, weight and torque multiplication for a 7.2” ring gear to handle.

A Dana 30 which is larger and is probably stronger than the differential in the front of an H3 is marginal in a TJ with 33’s. That’s why Rubicon’s have Dana 44’s front and rear and they run 31’s from the factory.

Someone mentioned SAS which is what I’m thinking although I’m not sure how feasible it is. High pinion Dana 44, 4 link and coilovers.

I love my Hummer but am not going to be left stranded in the Mountains. I'll fix the problem or get an H2 or H1 which I am seriously considering before I walk home. I can fix a tie rod on the trail but not a differential. From all accounts you can count on your fingers and maybe toes how many times this has occured throughout all of testing and the thousands and thousands of vehicles that are out on the road now. If it was a stress reason, it's likely you would see the rings shattering. With the type of damage occuring it leads to a flaw in the gear itself.

This was not a grenading of the diff, this was spinning teeth off and is a completely different animal than what is normally seen.

A Dana 60 up front won't make any difference if the gears aren't properly hardened due to some impurity in the process.

I will promise you this. You do a SAS and get into other mods to do wheeling and you WILL be stranded because you are going to break something. It's just the nature of wheeling and you don't have the R&D budget that GM does to figure out what works and what doesn't at the cost of breaking things.

Blowing the front diff does not end your day. If you can do a SAS and fix a tie rod then you should be able to pull half shafts and the front driveline and drive it out in rear drive only. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://hometown.aol.com/f5fstop01/images/iagree.gif

[HIHUMMER]

Originally posted by Sewie:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NEOCON1:
hey f5 , we were in low with rear locked tractin cotrol off message is always shown for me when in 4 low we were BTMing with all four tires on the ground .


If mine broke when I think it did, I was doing the same thing. Only difference was I was on a dirt/gravel ledge, not on slickrock.

BTW, I got my truck last July, around the same time as Bebe and Neo. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

How many miles do you all have on your trucks? I got mine on August 1st and am at 19000 miles. Seeing a pattern? I haven't been offroad since Tellico...but the noises started after that....hummmm...? How can I check the build date?

[ketcat]

Originally posted by PhilD:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ketcat:
I was saying that I am thinking of getting an H2 or H1 and that I would rather bent a tie rod than blow a diff.
Why do you think something in the steering will blow befor something in the driveline? While there is a realtionship, I've seen H2 diffs blow with vehicles with stock tie rods and there was no stress on them at all. Likewise, the H3 tie rods are hardly beefy, and they did not blow instead of the diffs.

The concept that the tie rod is a pressure relief valve for the drivetrain is a false one. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


From what I read an H2 bent 3 tie rods and two different H3's broke differentials. Not saying one would go before the other just the difference in the experience they had with two different vehicles on the same obstacle.

[CO Hummer]

Originally posted by PhilD:
Hardly an osbatcle you'd expect to start blowing diffs on though. One may be expected, but two vehicles blowing stuff on the same obstaacle tends to make me think there is eiether a more general issue with drivetrain strength, or just bad luck.

I totally agree. There IS a general issue with the drivetrain strength. I was standing right there and I couldn't believe it when I saw what happened. Bebe and Neo hardly gave it any gas before I started hearing that ugly sound of the teeth breaking off. Especially Neo - he wasn't even up the part of the steps where both his front and rear were against ledges! Only his back wheels were pressed against the ledge when a little torque shattered everything.

Bebe was fully pressed against two ledges - both front and rear wheels. She had tried it a couple of times, and it snapped around the 3rd attempt. She was being very careful and I was getting on her about needing MORE acceleration. Ironically, when I was telling her about needing more momentum she said "I'm just trying not to break my truck". 30 seconds later....Snap.

Something must be done to beef up those diffs. If not, I would not wheel Golden Spike with an H3 again unless I planned in advance to winch up the H3's over the obstacles requiring serious torque.

[PARAGON]

Originally posted by ketcat:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PhilD:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ketcat:
I was saying that I am thinking of getting an H2 or H1 and that I would rather bent a tie rod than blow a diff.
Why do you think something in the steering will blow befor something in the driveline? While there is a realtionship, I've seen H2 diffs blow with vehicles with stock tie rods and there was no stress on them at all. Likewise, the H3 tie rods are hardly beefy, and they did not blow instead of the diffs.

The concept that the tie rod is a pressure relief valve for the drivetrain is a false one. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


From what I read an H2 bent 3 tie roads and two different H3's broke differentials. Not saying one would go before the other just the difference in the experience they had with two different vehicles on the same obstacle. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>The H2 did not bend 3 tie rods on Golden Stairs. It was on the entire trip that day, that at best is a 9 hour trail day of hard wheeling. Golden Stairs is just one short obstacle where the 2 H3s spun the ring gears.

Huge difference.

[CO Hummer]

One other thing i noticed about the H3s is that they have NOISY rear diffs. At trail stops, I kept hearing noise that sounded like radio static coming from Bebe's rig. I had thought it was her CB and the squelch was turned up t0o high until she informed me that H3 rear diffs were very noisy. It was amazing how loud that rear diff sounds while just sitting there in park!

[CO Hummer]

Originally posted by PARAGON:
The H2 did not bend 3 tie rods on Golden Stairs. It was on the entire trip that day, that at best is a 9 hour trail day of hard wheeling. Golden Stairs is just one short obstacle where the 2 H3s spun the ring gears.

Huge difference.

And....per Rox's recent posts in the Moab picture thread it looks like there is something else going with her entire steering configuration. That might have caused the fluke of 3 tie rods busting on the same trail.

[PARAGON]

Originally posted by CO Hummer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PhilD:
Hardly an osbatcle you'd expect to start blowing diffs on though. One may be expected, but two vehicles blowing stuff on the same obstaacle tends to make me think there is eiether a more general issue with drivetrain strength, or just bad luck.

I totally agree. There IS a general issue with the drivetrain strength. I was standing right there and I couldn't believe it when I saw what happened. Bebe and Neo hardly gave it any gas before I started hearing that ugly sound of the teeth breaking off. Especially Neo - he wasn't even up the part of the steps where both his front and rear were against ledges! Only his back wheels were pressed against the ledge when a little torque shattered everything.

Bebe was fully pressed against two ledges - both front and rear wheels. She had tried it a couple of times, and it snapped around the 3rd attempt. She was being very careful and I was getting on her about needing MORE acceleration. Ironically, when I was telling her about needing more momentum she said "I'm just trying not to break my truck". 30 seconds later....Snap.

Something must be done to beef up those diffs. If not, I would not wheel Golden Spike with an H3 again unless I planned in advance to winch up the H3's over the obstacles requiring serious torque. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>It's looking like this is not systemic problem. Already, it appears that some ring gears can possibly make it through the system into the front of the trucks without proper hardening for the harder type wheeling that Golden Spike requires.

I'm betting that you could take 2 others through there, under the same setup and conditions and not experience that same problem. I can also bet that GM is all over this right now and have even seen the pictures of the Neo's diff since a failure like this is so uncommon. It might fall back on trying to figure out in AAM's process, what could have occured to allow for the metal to not properly cure.

[CO Hummer]

Originally posted by PhilD:
Should be no noise coming from the diff when in park, nothing is moving. Was it something vibrating inside?

It literally sounded like you had a radio on that was not tuned to station - sounded exactly like radio static. No rythmic vibration sound, just static sound. Bebe said something to the tune of "all the H3s diffs sound like this". Apparently it's a known thing. ?

[PARAGON]

Originally posted by CO Hummer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
The H2 did not bend 3 tie rods on Golden Stairs. It was on the entire trip that day, that at best is a 9 hour trail day of hard wheeling. Golden Stairs is just one short obstacle where the 2 H3s spun the ring gears.

Huge difference.

And....per Rox's recent posts in the Moab picture thread it looks like there is something else going with her entire steering configuration. That might have caused the fluke of 3 tie rods busting on the same trail. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I am most assured of that. I honestly don't think soft shocks could cause the tie rods to bend that many times in one day. Unless she was wheel-hopping every time. Something had to be off, and it could possibly be a damaged centerlink or something.

[CO Hummer]

Originally posted by PARAGON:
It's looking like this is not systemic problem. Already, it appears that some ring gears can possibly make it through the system into the front of the trucks without proper hardening for the harder type wheeling that Golden Spike requires.

I don't know.....that seems like too great a coincidence that both trucks would have the same metallurgic problem, both would experience the same effect on the exact same obstacle, etc.

[CO Hummer]

Originally posted by PARAGON:
I am most assured of that. I honestly don't think soft shocks could cause the tie rods to bend that many times in one day. Unless she was wheel-hopping every time. Something had to be off, and it could possibly be a damaged centerlink or something.

I was standing next to the truck only on the 2nd tie rod break. Rox will admit that she deserved that one. She got to the top and I was yelling "STOP" as her rig started to bounce. She back off a second too late and and BOOM, busted tie rod. But by the third one......something was definitely wrong with rig. She barely started crawling up an a ledge and it snapped without any sort of bouncing.

[PARAGON]

Originally posted by CO Hummer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
It's looking like this is not systemic problem. Already, it appears that some ring gears can possibly make it through the system into the front of the trucks without proper hardening for the harder type wheeling that Golden Spike requires.

I don't know.....that seems like too great a coincidence that both trucks would have the same metallurgic problem, both would experience the same effect on the exact same obstacle, etc. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Well, I really, really don't like coincidences and I agree. But there might be a relationship to the two trucks through the front ring/pinions because their build dates are fairly close together.

Not knowing the entire process at the gear manufacturer, it's really hard to speculate further. But they are very into this potential problem and if it was systemic then more than the handful that have shown up would likely have occured.

I have to also question why Golden Stairs. I wonder if the front diffs heated up from the hard wheeling up to the stairs and that changed it's properties some. Undoubtedly, some of the other days would have stressed the diff as much as the stairs did at that time.

[NoMoGMPG]

Originally posted by PARAGON:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by CO Hummer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
It's looking like this is not systemic problem. Already, it appears that some ring gears can possibly make it through the system into the front of the trucks without proper hardening for the harder type wheeling that Golden Spike requires.

I don't know.....that seems like too great a coincidence that both trucks would have the same metallurgic problem, both would experience the same effect on the exact same obstacle, etc. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Well, I really, really don't like coincidences and I agree. But there might be a relationship to the two trucks through the front ring/pinions because their build dates are fairly close together.

Not knowing the entire process at the gear manufacturer, it's really hard to speculate further. But they are very into this potential problem and if it was systemic then more than the handful that have shown up would likely have occured.

I have to also question why Golden Stairs. I wonder if the front diffs heated up from the hard wheeling up to the stairs and that changed it's properties some. Undoubtedly, some of the other days would have stressed the diff as much as the stairs did at that time. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

For some reason, the Stairs claim Hummer axles. We broke a halfshaft on Wednesday when tire spin/hookup occurred. Dan Mick told me once that more axles and t/cases are claimed on that obstacle than any other on the Spike.

Dave

[NEOCON1]

thanks dave , it was a great expierience to wheel with you .

would it be a councidence if a thousand jeeps went thru and 150 busted the same part http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif, this is a risk we all take . Dan Mick and Dave speak the real deal about moab .

we werent just hoping curbs at the mall http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

phil in trucks built up like yours you should make it in 4 hours LOL http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

[Cranky Steve]

Couple tips. Avoid wheel spin on the rocks. If your spinning, your air pressure is too high. Pretend there is a raw egg between your foot and the skinny pedal. Spinning in the dirt does not shock the drive line like it does on the rocks.

A front locker really helps when used correctly.

Switch to high quality synthetic gear oil. Redline is a good choice, and has a broad line up to cover whatever GM calls for. Synthetics will allow the diffs to run cooler, and maintain lubrication in all temps much better than regular gear oils.

As mentioned, increasing Tire diameter can warrant going to a lower gear. There are charts on the net that can help you figure which gear ratio match up correctly.

Yukon gears are Randy's house brand, which means the box may contain gears from several manufacturers. The could be Dana (OEM, good stuff), US Gear (Excellent Aftermarket), etc.

Stay away from Genuine Gear, it's junk.

Lastly, keep in mind, that once you start really offroading, you will find the week links quickly. Not many current 4x4's are really bullet proof anymore like they were in the early 80's.

So, before you start mods, think it through, "Cause and effect". In other words, when you think about changing something, consider how it plays in the overall scheme of things, and make sure the rest of the players are matched.

I can't wait for someone to go for it on an h3 and put a Solid axle in front, Springover the rear, move the low hanging rear shocks, etc. H3's are definitely the right size for all trails!

[PackerFever]

Originally posted by CO Hummer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PhilD:
Should be no noise coming from the diff when in park, nothing is moving. Was it something vibrating inside?

It literally sounded like you had a radio on that was not tuned to station - sounded exactly like radio static. No rythmic vibration sound, just static sound. Bebe said something to the tune of "all the H3s diffs sound like this". Apparently it's a known thing. ? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have not noticed noise like that on mine at all. But I have not been listening for it either. I may get a chance to go off road a bit this morning on my way over to South Park so I will letyou know. I will tryiin 4hi and 4 lo. I donot have a locking differential as far as I know in my five speed.

[NEOCON1]

thanks cranky , bebe should be home anytime now http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

[HummerNewbie]

Originally posted by PARAGON:
...But there might be a relationship to the two trucks through the front ring/pinions because their build dates are fairly close together...

I agree completely especially since there are now three since HI's has to be replaced. I would really like to see some investigation into this since the three vehicles that I know of with this problem were all purchase right at the same time. Of course any one of them could have been sitting on the lot for a while but I really think this needs to be looked into. Based on VIN numbers I would think it would be fairly easy to check the lot numbers for the gears in each truck. If the lot numbers are all different then that probably counts out a hardening issue but if they are all the same it would narrow down the possible problems in my book.

[PARAGON]

Originally posted by HummerNewbie:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
...But there might be a relationship to the two trucks through the front ring/pinions because their build dates are fairly close together...

I agree completely especially since there are now three since HI's has to be replaced. I would really like to see some investigation into this since the three vehicles that I know of with this problem were all purchase right at the same time. Of course any one of them could have been sitting on the lot for a while but I really think this needs to be looked into. Based on VIN numbers I would think it would be fairly easy to check the lot numbers for the gears in each truck. If the lot numbers are all different then that probably counts out a hardening issue but if they are all the same it would narrow down the possible problems in my book. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I promise, it's being investigated.

[ketcat]

Cranky Steve:

I'm agree with you.

[ketcat]

PARAGON:

"The H2 did not bend 3 tie rods on Golden Stairs. It was on the entire trip that day, that at best is a 9 hour trail day of hard wheeling. Golden Stairs is just one short obstacle where the 2 H3s spun the ring gears.

Huge difference."
________________________________________________
Correct, it's a huge difference! Thanks for setting me straight.

[Chinkierol30]

I’ve been off-line for a while (moved to a new house without cable) so I do not know if this has been suggested yet.

Would it be possible to strip a broken front differential down, find the broken teeth and use JB Weld to glue them back on again? I know this probably would be a bad idea for a permanent fix but it might get you off the trail?

[Chinkierol30]

Originally posted by PhilD:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chinkierol30:
find the broken teeth and use JB Weld to glue them back on again? This is special, just like your idea of super gluing lug nuts on.

For future reference, fixing vehicles is more of a mechanical thing, and less of an arts & crafts thing http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
So you don't think it will work?

According to their advertising it’s an alternative to welding!!

“Our flagship product, J-B WELD is the world's finest cold-weld compound. It's a remarkably easy, convenient, and inexpensive alternative to welding, soldering, and brazing. J-B WELD is the smart way to repair something ...”

Or are you saying you can’t use a regular welder to re-attach the teeth either?

[evldave]

chances are if you have access to a welder in the field, you've also got access to someone that can pull half-shafts & DS and you can just drive out in 2WD.

I think you'd have just as much luck with bubble gum vs JB weld on ring gears...

[ree]

Originally posted by Chinkierol30:
According to their advertising it’s an alternative to welding!!

“Our flagship product, J-B WELD is the world's finest cold-weld compound. It's a remarkably easy, convenient, and inexpensive alternative to welding, soldering, and brazing. J-B WELD is the smart way to repair something ...”

Or are you saying you can’t use a regular welder to re-attach the teeth either?

OMG, no winky?!?!?! You can't be serious. Have you ever tried to glue anything that broke (that excludes glues carpentry and rubber patches where vulcanization happening)...it never works. If there's enough force to break a [suposedly] homogenous material, then glue's not going to hold it.

[HummBebe]

Originally posted by evldave:
chances are if you have access to a welder in the field, you've also got access to someone that can pull half-shafts & DS and you can just drive out in 2WD.

I think you'd have just as much luck with bubble gum vs JB weld on ring gears...

I don't think we can do that on the three's, has something to do with the computer thingy.

[f5fstop]

Originally posted by PARAGON:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HummerNewbie:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
...But there might be a relationship to the two trucks through the front ring/pinions because their build dates are fairly close together...

I agree completely especially since there are now three since HI's has to be replaced. I would really like to see some investigation into this since the three vehicles that I know of with this problem were all purchase right at the same time. Of course any one of them could have been sitting on the lot for a while but I really think this needs to be looked into. Based on VIN numbers I would think it would be fairly easy to check the lot numbers for the gears in each truck. If the lot numbers are all different then that probably counts out a hardening issue but if they are all the same it would narrow down the possible problems in my book. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I promise, it's being investigated. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh yes, it is being investigated, and maybe some more.

A few notes on other comments.
The axles already come with synthetic fluid, and the fluid is not the problem. The problem appears to be hardness.

Does GM put the minimal parts in the vehicle? Yes and no. The specs on these axles was high, whether or not AAM is cutting corners remains to be seen.

They won't put the largest axle available, for that would be a waste of money, but they won't put the weakest either; especially in something they know will be off-roaded by a certain number at places most would mess their drawers thinking about.

All I can say on this board is that as the numbers of destroyed axles rises, and as of yesterday, there were very very few, people will start asking questions. The three that we have on this board have not hit the warranty reports until the repairs are completed, and the dealer submits the labor op for payment. That is how the warranty numbers are run by engineering.

I can say, that some are raising their eyebrows with just the one photo I sent to engineering and mentioned there were two of these on one day. Tomorrow, I will let them know there are three that I personally know of.

If they jump on this like the cylinder head issue, it will not take many more to explode. The cylinder head issue was researched and the head re-designed with an extremely low number of failures; especially considering the number of these engines are on the road since '04.
I can't say for sure, since I'm low on the totem pole, but I would bet if there is a problem found, there would never be a recall, due to the low numbers of axles that will be replaced. However, I would bet a lunch, that if a problem is found, new axle specs will be established, and these new axles will be put into production, and shipped to service parts, so that the replacement axles, if needed, will be the stronger axle.

That is all I can really say on the matter; except please stop breaking your H3s. For some odd reason, when something big happens on one of these vehicles, I get pushed into the middle to help the situation, and I'm already busier than a one legged man in an ass kicking contest. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif (I'm trying to be funny... http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif )

[ChasH3]

All I know if there is a problem I rather have it identified and a recall in place, then wait till I get off road somewhere and get stuck.... http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

[HummBebe]

Originally posted by ChasH3:
All I know if there is a problem I rather have it identified and a recall in place, then wait till I get off road somewhere and get stuck.... http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

It will not likely be recalled.....not enough trucks (H3's) that will wheel enough to break it.

[HummBebe]

Oh and PS....

The first Rule of Wheeling, is to never wheel alone.

[ChasH3]

That true too... I'll just have to carry more beer along just in case. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[ChasH3]

But you are right Bebe... I just hope I have the same group of people around to support me like you did if I ever do break down.... http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[evldave]

Originally posted by HummBebe:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by evldave:
chances are if you have access to a welder in the field, you've also got access to someone that can pull half-shafts & DS and you can just drive out in 2WD.

I think you'd have just as much luck with bubble gum vs JB weld on ring gears...

I don't think we can do that on the three's, has something to do with the computer thingy. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The computer thingy doesn't like bubble gum? http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[evldave]

Originally posted by PhilD:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HummBebe:
I don't think we can do that on the three's, has something to do with the computer thingy. Bet you can, even if you have to start pulling fuses until it works. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Start with the traction control & Stabilitrac and go from there? I've never had electronic anything on my Cherokee or Suburban, but I'd hope you could fool the computer at least enough for 2WD...

[HummBebe]

Originally posted by PhilD:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HummBebe:
I don't think we can do that on the three's, has something to do with the computer thingy. Bet you can, even if you have to start pulling fuses until it works. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok, we discussed that on the trail with the HUMMER mechanic.....I called him 2 seconds after I was off the trail....to order parts :-)

He mentioned that Stabilitrac would/could prevent the whole vehicle from operating if disabled.

That was honestly the first thing I thought of, I just wanted to go home http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

[PARAGON]

Originally posted by HummBebe:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PhilD:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HummBebe:
I don't think we can do that on the three's, has something to do with the computer thingy. Bet you can, even if you have to start pulling fuses until it works. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok, we discussed that on the trail with the HUMMER mechanic.....I called him 2 seconds after I was off the trail....to order parts :-)

He mentioned that Stabilitrac would/could prevent the whole vehicle from operating if disabled.

That was honestly the first thing I thought of, I just wanted to go home http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>You can simply pull the half shafts and front driveline without pulling any fuses.

All of the traction control, Stabilitrack and ABS runs off of the wheel speed sensors and maybe a sensor at the output shafts of the t-case.

If you are moving the wheels are are all turning and the computer doesn't know if power is going to the front or not.

[HummBebe]

Originally posted by Desert Dan:
HummBebe

I missed the story on how you broke the gears.<span class="ev_code_RED">It's a long one, I went up at a crawl, a set of difficult stairsteps. I crawled up the first and the second no problem, when I tried to get the rear wheels up the third the front ring gear went "Bzzzzzzz" Yes I was in 4 Lo, yes I was locked, yes, I was in first, and yes, I was BTM'ing.</span>

Do you have an auto or 5-speed and do you have 35" tires? <span class="ev_code_RED">Lux / Adventure w/ Auto</span>

KetKat is right about the 4.88's having smaller (more) teeth on the gears. Also with lower gears in the diff and bigger tires the cv joint might start to blow?? <span class="ev_code_RED">Understood, but doesn't the higher ratio give you more low-end torque while crawling???</span>

Also if you change out the front you have to do the rear (not under waranty) too.<span class="ev_code_RED">Correct, whatever you do to the front gear, you have to do to the rear gear as well</span>

Let's just say for arguments sake, the problem is not the ratio, but the material. Why wouldn't I want to go to 4:88's? I think I am going to anyway. Not an expensive upgrade....so what the heck?

And besides, slower is better http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[PARAGON]

Originally posted by HummBebe:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Desert Dan:
HummBebe

I missed the story on how you broke the gears.<span class="ev_code_RED">It's a long one, I went up at a crawl, a set of difficult stairsteps. I crawled up the first and the second no problem, when I tried to get the rear wheels up the third the front ring gear went "Bzzzzzzz" Yes I was in 4 Lo, yes I was locked, yes, I was in first, and yes, I was BTM'ing.</span>

Do you have an auto or 5-speed and do you have 35" tires? <span class="ev_code_RED">Lux / Adventure w/ Auto</span>

KetKat is right about the 4.88's having smaller (more) teeth on the gears. Also with lower gears in the diff and bigger tires the cv joint might start to blow?? <span class="ev_code_RED">Understood, but doesn't the higher ratio give you more low-end torque while crawling???</span>

Also if you change out the front you have to do the rear (not under waranty) too.<span class="ev_code_RED">Correct, whatever you do to the front gear, you have to do to the rear gear as well</span>

Let's just say for arguments sake, the problem is not the ratio, but the material. Why wouldn't I want to go to 4:88's? I think I am going to anyway. Not an expensive upgrade....so what the heck?

And besides, slower is better http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>What ratio is in there now? I'm sure I could look it up, but I don't remember off the top of my head.

[ChasH3]

Bebe my stabilitrac shut off the other day while I was driving on the Freeway.. I even got a message saying it was off and needed service and the indicator light on the 4x4(All wheel drive) button was off... The H3 drove fine. Then after I got off the freeway and was able to turn the H3 off and back on everything worked fine... Weird..... http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

[HummBebe]

Originally posted by PARAGON:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HummBebe:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Desert Dan:
HummBebe

I missed the story on how you broke the gears.<span class="ev_code_RED">It's a long one, I went up at a crawl, a set of difficult stairsteps. I crawled up the first and the second no problem, when I tried to get the rear wheels up the third the front ring gear went "Bzzzzzzz" Yes I was in 4 Lo, yes I was locked, yes, I was in first, and yes, I was BTM'ing.</span>

Do you have an auto or 5-speed and do you have 35" tires? <span class="ev_code_RED">Lux / Adventure w/ Auto</span>

KetKat is right about the 4.88's having smaller (more) teeth on the gears. Also with lower gears in the diff and bigger tires the cv joint might start to blow?? <span class="ev_code_RED">Understood, but doesn't the higher ratio give you more low-end torque while crawling???</span>

Also if you change out the front you have to do the rear (not under waranty) too.<span class="ev_code_RED">Correct, whatever you do to the front gear, you have to do to the rear gear as well</span>

Let's just say for arguments sake, the problem is not the ratio, but the material. Why wouldn't I want to go to 4:88's? I think I am going to anyway. Not an expensive upgrade....so what the heck?

And besides, slower is better http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>What ratio is in there now? I'm sure I could look it up, but I don't remember off the top of my head. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Adventure has 4:56's

[ChasH3]

Originally posted by ChasH3:
Bebe my stabilitrac shut off the other day while I was driving on the Freeway.. I even got a message saying it was off and needed service and the indicator light on the 4x4(All wheel drive) button was off... The H3 drove fine. Then after I got off the freeway and was able to turn the H3 off and back on everything worked fine... Weird..... http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif


I was just thinking that since the stabilitrac was shut off that maybe there is a way to disconnect it without preventing the whole vehicle from operating and/or disabled like the mechanic stated....

[ketcat]

Again just my opinion......

4.88:1 would give you more torque and get you back to about a stock overall ratio if you have changed out the 285's for 315's. I like the idea of a 4.88 or maybe even a 5.12ish ratio with 315's. On the other hand there is the possibility that a lower ratio (higher numerically) would be easier to break.

In either case I personally would wait and see if more differentials break because it's under warranty now and once you install aftermarket parts the warranty is gone. If it ends up being a bad gear issue and not related to the differential itself then upgrading is probably a safe beat. If on the other hand it's related to the differential I would not want to change anything.

[HummBebe]

In either case I personally would wait and see if more differentials break because it's under warranty now and once you install aftermarket parts the warranty is gone. If it ends up being a bad gear issue and not related to the differential itself then upgrading is probably a safe beat

Well if the 35" tires don't affect the warranty....really.

Then changing the R&P shouldn't?

It is a minor modification to a inexpensive part.

Why not?

[f5fstop]

All H3s have 4.56:1 gearing.
Now, as for replacing the R&P, the only warranty item that would be affected would be the axle itself. Some overzealous service managers might say a better gear would affect the axle shafts, but my answer to that would be BS. Besides, if you did break an axle shaft, no tech will be removing the cover to see what R&P gear you are running, and most wouldn't know the differnce if they did.

[HummBebe]

Originally posted by f5fstop:
All H3s have 4.56:1 gearing.
Now, as for replacing the R&P, the only warranty item that would be affected would be the axle itself. Some overzealous service managers might say a better gear would affect the axle shafts, but my answer to that would be BS. Besides, if you did break an axle shaft, no tech will be removing the cover to see what R&P gear you are running, and most wouldn't know the differnce if they did.

http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[cestwick]

Originally posted by PARAGON:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HummBebe:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PhilD:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HummBebe:
I don't think we can do that on the three's, has something to do with the computer thingy. Bet you can, even if you have to start pulling fuses until it works. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok, we discussed that on the trail with the HUMMER mechanic.....I called him 2 seconds after I was off the trail....to order parts :-)

He mentioned that Stabilitrac would/could prevent the whole vehicle from operating if disabled.

That was honestly the first thing I thought of, I just wanted to go home http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>You can simply pull the half shafts and front driveline without pulling any fuses.

All of the traction control, Stabilitrack and ABS runs off of the wheel speed sensors and maybe a sensor at the output shafts of the t-case.

If you are moving the wheels are are all turning and the computer doesn't know if power is going to the front or not. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not sure if any of you have ever pulled a front shaft on the H3 but it isn't the simplest job to do. You basically have to pull the front knuckles off to get the shaft out. Also I'm not 100% positive about the H3 at this time but I do know that on most GM 4x4's the outer joint assembly is what holds the hub/bearing togather and is actually suposed to be tightened to 191 ft lbs. I have seen where the drive shaft nut wasn't tightened and the bearing went out in a very short period.

[cestwick]

Originally posted by PhilD:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by cestwick:
I'm not sure if any of you have ever pulled a front shaft on the H3 but it isn't the simplest job to do. Even easier if you've blown a CV.

You basically have to pull the front knuckles off to get the shaft out. Can't you just disconnect the tie rod and swing the knuckle around. That is what you do on a H2, but I haven't looked at a H3 close enough to see if it would be the same.

FWIW The H2 axle nut is only torqued to 155 lb/ft and requires a 35mm socket. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No you can't. On the H2 you have the luxury of a halfshaft that bolts to the diff. H3 the shaft goes into the diff housing. Not enough room to turn knuckle and pull shaft.

[cestwick]

Originally posted by f5fstop:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HummerNewbie:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
...But there might be a relationship to the two trucks through the front ring/pinions because their build dates are fairly close together...

I agree completely especially since there are now three since HI's has to be replaced. I would really like to see some investigation into this since the three vehicles that I know of with this problem were all purchase right at the same time. Of course any one of them could have been sitting on the lot for a while but I really think this needs to be looked into. Based on VIN numbers I would think it would be fairly easy to check the lot numbers for the gears in each truck. If the lot numbers are all different then that probably counts out a hardening issue but if they are all the same it would narrow down the possible problems in my book. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I promise, it's being investigated. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh yes, it is being investigated, and maybe some more.

A few notes on other comments.
The axles already come with synthetic fluid, and the fluid is not the problem. The problem appears to be hardness.

Does GM put the minimal parts in the vehicle? Yes and no. The specs on these axles was high, whether or not AAM is cutting corners remains to be seen.

They won't put the largest axle available, for that would be a waste of money, but they won't put the weakest either; especially in something they know will be off-roaded by a certain number at places most would mess their drawers thinking about.

All I can say on this board is that as the numbers of destroyed axles rises, and as of yesterday, there were very very few, people will start asking questions. The three that we have on this board have not hit the warranty reports until the repairs are completed, and the dealer submits the labor op for payment. That is how the warranty numbers are run by engineering.

I can say, that some are raising their eyebrows with just the one photo I sent to engineering and mentioned there were two of these on one day. Tomorrow, I will let them know there are three that I personally know of.

If they jump on this like the cylinder head issue, it will not take many more to explode. The cylinder head issue was researched and the head re-designed with an extremely low number of failures; especially considering the number of these engines are on the road since '04.
I can't say for sure, since I'm low on the totem pole, but I would bet if there is a problem found, there would never be a recall, due to the low numbers of axles that will be replaced. However, I would bet a lunch, that if a problem is found, new axle specs will be established, and these new axles will be put into production, and shipped to service parts, so that the replacement axles, if needed, will be the stronger axle.

That is all I can really say on the matter; except please stop breaking your H3s. For some odd reason, when something big happens on one of these vehicles, I get pushed into the middle to help the situation, and I'm already busier than a one legged man in an ass kicking contest. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif (I'm trying to be funny... http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

f5fstop
I am sure we still have the front diff I pulled out could you use a pic of it as well? I know it looked almost exactly like The pic on here.

[HummBebe]

YES PLEASE!!! the more the merrier or is it....misery loves company? http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[PARAGON]

Originally posted by cestwick:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by f5fstop:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HummerNewbie:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
...But there might be a relationship to the two trucks through the front ring/pinions because their build dates are fairly close together...

I agree completely especially since there are now three since HI's has to be replaced. I would really like to see some investigation into this since the three vehicles that I know of with this problem were all purchase right at the same time. Of course any one of them could have been sitting on the lot for a while but I really think this needs to be looked into. Based on VIN numbers I would think it would be fairly easy to check the lot numbers for the gears in each truck. If the lot numbers are all different then that probably counts out a hardening issue but if they are all the same it would narrow down the possible problems in my book. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I promise, it's being investigated. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh yes, it is being investigated, and maybe some more.

A few notes on other comments.
The axles already come with synthetic fluid, and the fluid is not the problem. The problem appears to be hardness.

Does GM put the minimal parts in the vehicle? Yes and no. The specs on these axles was high, whether or not AAM is cutting corners remains to be seen.

They won't put the largest axle available, for that would be a waste of money, but they won't put the weakest either; especially in something they know will be off-roaded by a certain number at places most would mess their drawers thinking about.

All I can say on this board is that as the numbers of destroyed axles rises, and as of yesterday, there were very very few, people will start asking questions. The three that we have on this board have not hit the warranty reports until the repairs are completed, and the dealer submits the labor op for payment. That is how the warranty numbers are run by engineering.

I can say, that some are raising their eyebrows with just the one photo I sent to engineering and mentioned there were two of these on one day. Tomorrow, I will let them know there are three that I personally know of.

If they jump on this like the cylinder head issue, it will not take many more to explode. The cylinder head issue was researched and the head re-designed with an extremely low number of failures; especially considering the number of these engines are on the road since '04.
I can't say for sure, since I'm low on the totem pole, but I would bet if there is a problem found, there would never be a recall, due to the low numbers of axles that will be replaced. However, I would bet a lunch, that if a problem is found, new axle specs will be established, and these new axles will be put into production, and shipped to service parts, so that the replacement axles, if needed, will be the stronger axle.

That is all I can really say on the matter; except please stop breaking your H3s. For some odd reason, when something big happens on one of these vehicles, I get pushed into the middle to help the situation, and I'm already busier than a one legged man in an ass kicking contest. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif (I'm trying to be funny... http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

f5fstop
I am sure we still have the front diff I pulled out could you use a pic of it as well? I know it looked almost exactly like The pic on here. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>you damn skippy http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

get some good ones too, like from an angle and chit. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[PARAGON]

Originally posted by cestwick:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PhilD:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by cestwick:
I'm not sure if any of you have ever pulled a front shaft on the H3 but it isn't the simplest job to do. Even easier if you've blown a CV.

You basically have to pull the front knuckles off to get the shaft out. Can't you just disconnect the tie rod and swing the knuckle around. That is what you do on a H2, but I haven't looked at a H3 close enough to see if it would be the same.

FWIW The H2 axle nut is only torqued to 155 lb/ft and requires a 35mm socket. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No you can't. On the H2 you have the luxury of a halfshaft that bolts to the diff. H3 the shaft goes into the diff housing. Not enough room to turn knuckle and pull shaft. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>sawzall? http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[PARAGON]

What about just dropping the lower control arm?

In a had-to situation, I'm talking about. And mind you, I have no clue and am just thinking out loud. But if you get the ball joint undone and can get the knuckle turned and then move the whole upper control arm and knuckle up, would you have enough deflection along with the CVs to get it out?

[f5fstop]

Originally posted by cestwick:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HummBebe:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PhilD:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HummBebe:
I don't think we can do that on the three's, has something to do with the computer thingy. Bet you can, even if you have to start pulling fuses until it works. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok, we discussed that on the trail with the HUMMER mechanic.....I called him 2 seconds after I was off the trail....to order parts :-)

He mentioned that Stabilitrac would/could prevent the whole vehicle from operating if disabled.

That was honestly the first thing I thought of, I just wanted to go home http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>You can simply pull the half shafts and front driveline without pulling any fuses.

All of the traction control, Stabilitrack and ABS runs off of the wheel speed sensors and maybe a sensor at the output shafts of the t-case.

If you are moving the wheels are are all turning and the computer doesn't know if power is going to the front or not. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not sure if any of you have ever pulled a front shaft on the H3 but it isn't the simplest job to do. You basically have to pull the front knuckles off to get the shaft out. Also I'm not 100% positive about the H3 at this time but I do know that on most GM 4x4's the outer joint assembly is what holds the hub/bearing togather and is actually suposed to be tightened to 191 ft lbs. I have seen where the drive shaft nut wasn't tightened and the bearing went out in a very short period. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not easy that is for sure. However, there are four large bolts securing the hub to the knuckle and these bolts are torqued at 180 N.m each. The tire is then attached to the hub. I have never tried it, but the vehicle should be able to be driven without shafts.
The shaft torque is actually 235 N.m (ball buster). The torque is high since the shaft is fairly large.

I may just try this, because I'm not too sure if you really have to remove the knuckle completely. You might (as someone stated) be able to remove the tie bar and get enough swing on the knuckle to slide the shaft out. Happen to have a Hummer on the rack with the cylinder head out. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Maybe if the shafts were weaker, the shaft would go before the diff. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif (Then we could call it a Jeep http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif)

I guess, if you had a metal saw, and didn't mind the extra 200 or so for the shafts, cut 'em and remove. That would be an easy job. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[cestwick]

Originally posted by f5fstop:


Not easy that is for sure. However, there are four large bolts securing the hub to the knuckle and these bolts are torqued at 180 N.m each. The tire is then attached to the hub. I have never tried it, but the vehicle should be able to be driven without shafts.
The shaft torque is actually 235 N.m (ball buster). The torque is high since the shaft is fairly large.

I may just try this, because I'm not too sure if you really have to remove the knuckle completely. You might (as someone stated) be able to remove the tie bar and get enough swing on the knuckle to slide the shaft out. Happen to have a Hummer on the rack with the cylinder head out. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Maybe if the shafts were weaker, the shaft would go before the diff. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif (Then we could call it a Jeep http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif)

I guess, if you had a metal saw, and didn't mind the extra 200 or so for the shafts, cut 'em and remove. That would be an easy job. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/QUOTE]

Not that it matters but I am not sure where you got your shaft torque figure. This is out of SI for the H3.Fastener Tightening Specifications
Application
Specification

Metric
English

Front Wheel Drive Shaft Nut
260 N·m
191 lb ft



I have done an axle swap and tried just turning the knuckle and just undoing the upper ball joint but was just fighting it so did the bottom too.

[cestwick]

Just got back from talking to Parts manager. Was going to get pick of broken diff but we had to send it back to gm. Good indication they are trying to figure out what is going on.

[f5fstop]

Originally posted by cestwick:

Not that it matters but I am not sure where you got your shaft torque figure. This is out of SI for the H3.Fastener Tightening Specifications
Application
Specification

Metric
English

Front Wheel Drive Shaft Nut
260 N·m
191 lb ft



I have done an axle swap and tried just turning the knuckle and just undoing the upper ball joint but was just fighting it so did the bottom too.

Opps; mine was off the engineering drawing which is lower. The 260 N.m is the correct spec for repair.

[f5fstop]

Tire front drive shafts are a beotch to remove, but can be removed from the
vehicle while in the desert.
Disconnect the ABS sensor under the hood, and at the upper control arm
remove the wire from the clip (prevents breaking the wire).
Remove the front axle bolt.
Remove the tie bar from knuckle.
http://images1.snapfish.com/346948%3B74%7Ffp346%3Enu%3D3262%3E738%3E7%3B%3B%3E WSNRCG%3D323368%3A44276%3Anu0mrj
Remove the upper control arm bolt from the knuckle.
http://images1.snapfish.com/346948%3B74%7Ffp33%3B%3Enu%3D3262%3E738%3E7%3B%3B% 3EWSNRCG%3D323368%3A4377%3A7nu0mrj

Flex the knuckle back and down and you can just remove the shaft from the
hub.
However, installing it back into place is just pure joy. It will take two
people, one to flex the knuckle/hub assembly and one to squeeze the shaft
into the knuckle hub after shaft is in the diff.
I would say it would be just as fast to remove the lower control arm to
knuckle bolt and pull the knuckle out of the way and it might save some
time.
http://images1.snapfish.com/346948%3B74%7Ffp345%3Enu%3D3262%3E738%3E7%3B%3B%3E WSNRCG%3D323368%3A44276%3Bnu0mrj

Besides the required wrenches/sockets, etc., you will need one long pry
bar, plenty of beer

Now, let me throw this out. If the front diff is damaged, why not remove the front prop shaft, (eight bolts; four front/four rear), and drive and some good strong duct tape. Worse that could happen is the ring gear is shaved completely, or the vehicle will not move. I mean, drive at a very slow speed. Prop shaft would have to be removed to prevent damage to the T/case, but who would care about more damage to the diff. Yes, an axle might get damaged, but I’m not sure if I would not take the chance.

[PARAGON]

Originally posted by Alec W:
All this is great if you have the time and tools, however with only 2 wheel drive you can’t drive out from the middle of Golden Spike anyway. Sometimes it’s better just to get the tow strap out and drag a dead truck to the shop http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif I'm guessing Golden Spike is not the only place something like this could occur and some people that own the vehicle were interested in know what possibilities were out there.

Doing the above can get you 500 miles back to home on the highway instead of stranded in some small town with a single mechanic or a large tow truck bill.

[cestwick]

Originally posted by Alec W:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Alec W:
All this is great if you have the time and tools, however with only 2 wheel drive you can’t drive out from the middle of Golden Spike anyway. Sometimes it’s better just to get the tow strap out and drag a dead truck to the shop http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif I'm guessing Golden Spike is not the only place something like this could occur and some people that own the vehicle were interested in know what possibilities were out there.

Doing the above can get you 500 miles back to home on the highway instead of stranded in some small town with a single mechanic or a large tow truck bill. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I was merely pointing out that sometimes it might be better to simply tow the broken vehicle off the trail and figure out the longer term solution in the morning. Not all of us are gearheads http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I did however dutifully copy all of the pertinent notes from this thread for future trail side H3 recovery endeavors http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Taht is why you have gearheads like us around..We don't mind gettin dirty.

[RubHer Yellow Ducky]

RubHer Yellow Ducky
Hummer Professional

Posted 04-28-06 04:26 AM
I want all of you who went to Moab to know that yesterday I did the South Florida Neighberhood Speed Bump Challange twice and nothing broke.

I even did the Jump the Curb Side Event and as a BONUS ran over 6 little Blue Haired Old Ladies but I still only placed 4th, behind the Morris Mini, the MGA and the Ford Station Wagon.

BUT

I did get lucky last nite...

SERIOUSLY

I'm glad you all had a good time and wish I could have been there.

OH, also sorry about the breakdowns !

RYD

[Steve - SanJose]

Besides the 2 front diffs breaking, were there other noteworthy breakdowns?

And congrats are in order for the true H3 testers.


S.