Just my opinion here, but I don't think anyone is buying the H2 strictly for its off road capabilities. It is, as you mentioned, all the extras such as styling and luxury along with the great off road capabilities that brings them to it. Now those that just buy it for the status are idiots.

Dude I am not defending jeep. "most of the hardcore..." lol now that there is funny. I don't care who you are.

Image and nothing else. lol Those are noobicons.

I took a poll on a rubicon website, 187 responses, 150+ had owned Jeeps or currently own them. But I guess none were "hardcore" they dropped some extra coin for image instead of buying the stickers on e-bay.

I hope you people can put the same amount of passion into keeping trails open as you put into defending your rides.

Now that was funny.

P.S. I hate granite countertops because only snobby people buy them.

Now that is really sad, buying Rubi stickers on Ebay to put on your Jeep. Do some actually do that?

btw

I have a CJ-5 that I have been wheeling/breaking/fixing for the last 15 years (until I broke the frame) so I guess I'm not "hardcore"

and yes they get about 30 bucks for the stickers.

this is what the TK WILL HAVE>>>>>>TAKE IT FROM THE MOON!!!!!!

The new TK and TKL designs will be 2007 model year but will be introduced between January and August 2006, “when” depending entirely upon the construction progress of the new Toledo Jeep assembly plant (presently in the structural steel stage). The 4-door TKL version will be introduced first and 2007 model year production at the new facility will overlap the production of 2006 model year 2-door TJ and Unlimited TJ models at the current Toledo facility. The shorter 2-door TK’s will follow the TKL within 5 weeks. The original Jeep Toledo facility will eventually be demolished.

2) The 2-door TK will be approximately 6” wider than the TJ, and the wheelbase will be around 101”, similar to the Unlimited TJ. The 4-door TKL will share the general dimensions of the Gladiator concept, meaning about 6” wider than the TJ and with a wheelbase of 138”. (Don’t bemoan the larger dimensions, this will allow the factory to safely fit optional 33” diameter tires.) Two different packaged TKL versions will be initially available, these will be called Laredo and Rubicon. Three initial TK versions are planned, to be called SE/Sport/Rubicon.

3) Both TK and TKL will come in a single body version with full height doors and roll-up windows, integral roll cages, rear liftgate, and removable roof panels. The top options will represent solid or tinted transparent plastic – solid panels will be body paint color. Front fenders and rear fender flaress will be body-contrasting bolt-on plastic. Protective plastic body cladding will be used above the sills, save for Rubicon models which substitute diamond plate steel cladding. There is provision for storing the roof panels behind the rear seat.

4) Both TK and TKL will incorporate side impact and head restraint safety systems as well as standard airbags, soft interior surfaces, and anti-dive dashes. Unlike the full-length vehicle frames used in prior Jeep Universals, the TK and TKL will incorporate “shorty” frames with impact-absorbing structures and conventional styled bumpers at both ends. Again, don’t be displeased, an optional winch bumper will be available on front and a tow-rated receiver bumper on the rear. Tow capacity will be greater than TJ but nobody’s speculating by how much.

5) Standard engine for the TK SE will be the 2.4L 4-cylinder gas engine. Available TK optional powerplants will be limited to the 3.7L V-6. The standard TKL engine will be the 3.7L, the available option will be the 5.7-liter Hemi with MDS (multi displacement system, for 4-or-8-cylinder operating modes). Diesel engines will be available for Export vehicles only, not for US models. Available transmissions will initially include the 6-speed manual and a new (for Wrangler) 5-speed automatic. The 5-speed will include the ERS (Electronic Range Select) feature of the current WK, and should satisfy those who cannot decide between manual and automatic.

6) The remaining powertrain pieces include both part time and fulltime 4WD transfer cases derived from Mercedes SUV products, with available options that include the center ELSD (Electronic Limited Slip Differential). The same basic transfer case will be available with two different low range gears, the lower gearing being available only for the Rubicon models. AAM axles will be used on both vehicles with downsized versions standard and an available heavy duty axle for the 3.7L TK, also standard on TKL and Rubicon TK. The standard differentials will be open, with optional helical-gear LSDs “soon”. Rubicon models will have standard electric locking differentials made by AAM. Full-on electronic traction control will be available on “some” models. 4-wheel power disk brakes and power steering are standard in all TK and TKL models.

when you live where I live, know what I know, see what I see, and smell what I smell...then you know why I know

It's not all on the internet DRTYFN

POS jeep frame. Have you got a video of it breaking?

I think you meant me.

And anyway, it's all a lie. You don't know what you are talking about. It's just rumor. That is just prototype stuff you are talking about. Jeep would never do away with the soft top, they would never sell another wrangler. No one knows what Jeep will do for next year. No one has seen the Jeep Rescue..... oops TKL spy pictures.

Very wierd timing there Moon.

yep it was you. I just remembered reading his comment and hoped someone else would since I didnt quote it........ weird timing

Wow more high school insults! LOL, your mommy know your on her 'puter?

I just meant that the discussion was had just yesterday and POP you show up with the details.

Hmmm..... where are our furry little friends that just couldn't believe.

Wow more high school insults! LOL, your mommy know your on her 'puter? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>BAM!!!!!!!!!

Wow more high school insults! LOL, your mommy know your on her 'puter? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Damnit, NO!

Dont let this guy breed, it would down the average IQ of the entire H2 community.

Dont let this guy breed, it would down the average IQ of the entire H2 community. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Much the way you did to the poor ole' jeep community... Oh wait, you did it TIMES 2!

Have you heard me say that much bad about the video? The first thing I said about it was that it had false info...You guys made it clear that was its intention...OK. I actually said the video was funny comming from a Hummer owners perspective.

The biggest problem I have with the video, some of you here and the rest of the Hummer owners with the bad attitudes is simply the fact that...well...everything I have felt about Hummers and there drivers has just been strengthend by what I have read here.

Even though I figured it was a waste of time I thought maybe I could come here and see that maybe the "me and my hummer are better then you" attitude wouldn't be as strong as I see in the real world.

I was wrong..Its even stronger here. You all seem to think your **** don't stink. I have heard how much better Hummers are then ANYTHING else out there yet I have seen nothing to back that up. This thread is going on thirty pages and nowhere have I seen anything that proves you guys are so much better then the rest of us.

I've gone "head to head" as you would say, with a couple Rubicon owners myself. I got much farther, with less damage, and made it look much easier then any of them did. (Eagle Rock) I would guarantee that a Rubicon (other than the height) is much more capable of a vehicle then my TJ. So, again, IMHO......Driver 60%.....RIG 40%...... I'll keep throwing that out there cause this "anyone wanna challenge a rubicon" crap is kinda funny to me..........I'm open front and rear, and run a Dana 35c, anyone want some.?????

I think this would depend on where you live. Around here most of the ones I see have been either built up more to wheel or wheeled hard stock.

In other parts of the country I bet its the other way around.

To be honest I have the same problem with lots of Rubicon owners and I do H2 owners.

The 5 or 10% of people who buy them because they look cool or because its the cool thing to do are jerks. Almost always.

Same thing with hummers. Im sure you guys who wheel your H2s hard are cool people. Most likely you aren't the pretentous type of ******* that gives the H2 its bad name in the wheeling world.

But without knowing true numbers I would be willing to bet that you unpretentous non-*******s that wheel your hummers make up about 5-10% of all the H2s sold.

So basicly you guys here are really getting the short end of the shaft...

Not only do you have to defend the fact that you wheel your rigs but you also have to defend the fact that you aren't a pretentous ******* with a big wallet and a small peter.
Thats gotta be rough...

You got the attitude because you're full of **** and you're lieing.You came here to start trouble, not check our attitudes. You're a lieing sack of ****.

I think this would depend on where you live. Around here most of the ones I see have been either built up more to wheel or wheeled hard stock.

In other parts of the country I bet its the other way around.

To be honest I have the same problem with lots of Rubicon owners and I do H2 owners.

The 5 or 10% of people who buy them because they look cool or because its the cool thing to do are jerks. Almost always.

Same thing with hummers. Im sure you guys who wheel your H2s hard are cool people. Most likely you aren't the pretentous type of ******* that gives the H2 its bad name in the wheeling world.

But without knowing true numbers I would be willing to bet that you unpretentous non-*******s that wheel your hummers make up about 5-10% of all the H2s sold.

So basicly you guys here are really getting the short end of the shaft...

Not only do you have to defend the fact that you wheel your rigs but you also have to defend the fact that you aren't a pretentous ******* with a big wallet and a small peter.
Thats gotta be rough... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You are spot on about those here that wheel their H2s are cool. You are also correct that it is probably close to 10% of H2 owners that will take them off road, at least around here. In the overall Jeep market, I would guess that the figure isn't much higher. That is too bad for both brands. As far as your mentioning in the previous post that the Hummer owners are say that "Me and My Hummer are better than you are" (or something to that effect) really isn't true. Not from the people here that is. If you read through the thread, you don't really find comments like that IMHO. For the most part, the members of this forum and the first to say to those that drive other vehicles, just come on out with us to wheel, we will show you what it can do and you decide and we will all have a good time. If we all just stop this pissing match, there could probably be some great friendships built here.

I would venture to say it's pretty much the same everywhere regardless of what kind of vehicle you drive.

A good percentage of people buy "capable" off road vehicles because they think they look cool or because they buy into the outdoorsy vehicle marketing.

A smaller percentage of those same people then take thos vehicles and bolt all kinds of aftermarket parts onto them so they look (maybe are) even more capable off road.

A still smaller percentage of those same people will actually take those vehicles off road and demonstrate that they (the individual, not the vehicle) have very little capability offroad.

This last group makes up the bulk of the web wheelers on most Internet forums, IMO. They talk about modifications. They talk about how to wheel. They talk a lot but if/when you meet them in person you find out the truth.

Finally, there is a very small percentage of people who buy off road-capable vehicles to use them off road. Some of them modify the vehicles. Some of them build them from the ground up. Some of them buy them and wheel them stock right off the dealer's lot.

Internet forums have given us the good, the bad and the ugly. Good: those who want to wheel and modify their vehicles have a better means of communication than ever before. Bad: hordes of Web Wheelers are out there bragging about stuff they've never done and giving advice they're not qualified to give. The Ugly: Once in a while the Internet enables a "War of the Roses" and neither side is big enough to step back and let it end.

H2's suck.....I towed one out once. Hey did anyone see that video of the H2 breaking the Tie Rod? THose tie rods sure are weak. You have to have a small dick to own or even want to buy an H2....... Feeling any more feisty?

I don't like Rubicon's because my airhead sister in law bought one. It's called cognitive dissonance...displaced anger. If I think through it I realize it's not the ride I dislike. DrMoab, et al, have suggested similar by sighting perceived attitudes of the drivers and insisting he hates the ride. I detect similar on the Hummer side towards Jeeps.

Me, I've been a gearhead all my life and because I do have some disposable income I like different rides and owned and own a lot of them. So I guess I'm one of those so-called pinhead Hummer owners who bought the H2 simply because it's well, the H2 and I can afford it and I didn't want a more...established...Suburban and the Jeep was too small.

I remember when I bouught a 94 Viper roadster and started autocrossing with the SCCA in Oklahoma where I used to live. I was a rookie driver and of course when everyone beat me it was "Hey! I beat the Viper!"

They didn't beat the Viper, they beat the driver...but I didnt' have any moral high ground to try and explain or argue the point at the time.

US Naval War College Pretty Good Rule #2

Never wrestle with a pig, pig likes it and you both get dirty.

LtCDRAugs, retired.
2003,4 Utah State H Stock SCCA Champion
2004 Rocky Mountain H Stock SCCA Regional Champion
#14 2003 Mini Cooper

Exactly. Great post. Sure, they're not jealous of people with the means to buy one (either and H2 OR Rubi). They're just SO TIRED of the endelss attitude they get from H2 owners. What? I guess I'm guilty as charged. Every time I'm at a gas station filling up I, like 95% of all H2 owners, go running around shouting "I can afford and H2 and you can't, so nah, nah, nah, nah-hah". What a load of crap. He's suggesting that the 95% that don't take their rigs offroad are, by definition, a-holes with attitudes? Give me a break. At least the 95% of H2 owners that don't wheel have the sense to buy a car that has a luxury interior and ride. The 95% of Rubi owners who don't wheel just have a poser vehicle with zero non-wheeling benefits. So who is the bigger idiot?

Think about that statement and please tell me why YOU have a problem AND what that problem that is.

I am really interesting to see how you response to the above question.

There are many things people do in their lives that I have no interest in, however if they have no impact on me why in the world would I have a problem. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Alec, You will never get a real answer to that question (which I'm sure you know). There is no possible explanation other than one which points to ENVY. Not envy of the actual vehicle of course, but the means to buy one (or "throw away" money on).

P.S. I HATE fine wine because MD 20/20 does the same thing for less money.

LMAO

Is it wrong that I know what that is?

But to offset that, I know my cabs.

Is it wrong that I know what that is?

But to offset that, I know my cabs. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

See. There you go, sticking that fine wine crap in my face. I'm so damn sick of you connoisseurs and your "my wine is better than yours" attitude. I run into you people nearly every day. Always flaunting yours ridiculously overpriced wines in my face. But hey, I know that about 5% of you will actually slug down a bottle and tie one one. So a couple of you are ok by me. Let's drink.

Works for me, muddy. Thanks.

Paragon, I thought you saidWith the MD talk, I had to do a double take.

I feel better now Could barely sleep :0 just kidding. Ok, so read as well that the new JP Wrangler, or new model will resemble somewhat the H2, like a mini H2, last JPMagazine. Any info on that?

Gui

I apologize. There, is that better? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

HAHAHAHAH!



Is it wrong that I know what that is?

But to offset that, I know my cabs. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

See. There you go, sticking that fine wine crap in my face. I'm so damn sick of you connoisseurs and your "my wine is better than yours" attitude. I run into you people nearly every day. Always flaunting yours ridiculously overpriced wines in my face. But hey, I know that about 5% of you will actually slug down a bottle and tie one one. So a couple of you are ok by me. Let's drink. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>