<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jennifer:
Whoa! Wait a minute. I think Ed and Paragon misunderstood my post. I was just commenting to Alec's post where he said "What right do people have to force their holiday beliefs at me". I was explaining that the original origins of both decorating a tree and Santa Claus originaly had (past tense) nothing to do with a religion. I thought that it was ironic that it has turned in to a religious symble and now people are upset about it.

Ed, I do like the tradition as is obvious by my original comical (and sarcastic) post. Maybe I wasn't so clear about that when I wrote my second post or maybe you thought I was someone else when you read the post.

Paragon, I'm going to assume (you know what that means and I hope that's not the case! ) that you were being funny. No fire included with my sex dances. Sorry! And, no, I'm not a pagan!

Co-Pilot, what was your friend's findings? Seriously, I'm curious!! This kinda stuff intrigues me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I really don't consider that 7K acre wildfire funny. Were you driving that black H2 that was caught on TV?

How do you figure that Santa is a religous symbol? He is associated with Christmas but most people know that he is the "commercial" part of Christmas. You and your PC idiots need to take a long walk on a short plank. How many people do you know that decorate their neighbors house?

Because of Santa's commercial aspect, most religions celebrate him for the kids. He is a symbol of the human spirit IMO. The holiday decorations will continue to be part of our spirit no matter the religion, they are just pretty.


Separation of church and state is mandatory and is clearly stated in the Constitution. Christian symbols continue to be displayed in this country's monuments and federal establishments. However, the values upon which those establishments were built were derived from the fundaments of Christianity. I view them not as a threat to that separation but as a historical display.

I am not a "churchy" person, I am more scientific, but I certainly believe that the values taught by that particular religion among others, are truths for a civilized conglomerated society. So I don't have a problem with any of those displays, or any display for that matter. I am not easily influenced by things of that nature so I don't feel it a threat to my belief system.

PS- Everybody wang-chung tonight.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by h2co-pilot:
Because of Santa's commercial aspect, most religions celebrate him for the kids. He is a symbol of the human spirit IMO. The holiday decorations will continue to be part of our spirit no matter the religion, they are just pretty.


Separation of church and state is mandatory and is clearly stated in the Constitution. Christian symbols continue to be displayed in this country's monuments and federal establishments. However, the values upon which those establishments were built were derived from the fundaments of Christianity. I view them not as a threat to that separation but as a historical display.

I am not a "churchy" person, I am more scientific, but I certainly believe that the values taught by that particular religion among others, are truths for a civilized conglomerated society. So I don't have a problem with any of those displays, or any display for that matter. I am not easily influenced by things of that nature so I don't feel it a threat to my belief system.

PS- Everybody wang-chung tonight. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Whoops....I've been reading this thread and enjoying it. While I appreciated most of your post, CP, you are just plain factually wrong on the Constitution. Sorry! It's not your fault, the liberal PC, non-religious media has convinced you AND MOST OF THE COUNTRY that "seperation of church and state" is mandated in our founding document and it just plain AIN'T! The words are not in there, and neither is the sentiment as commonly understood today. Look at the document (the Constitution) on-line or in any major dictionary's reference section. The only constitutional mandate regarding religion is commonly refered to today as the "establishment clause" contained in Article I of the Bill of Rights in which the founding fathers wrote that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..." In the few Supreme Court cases, it has been found mostly on the side of the second part of that clause! Allowing a religious display on public property DOES NOT "establish" a national religion. NOT ALLOWING the display, if the majority of citizens desire it, DOES "prohibit the free exercise thereof."

Now, Jennifer was correct to point folks to the Federalist Papers. These incredible documents give legal scholars an insight into the founding fathers "original intent." Upon reading them, it becomes abundantly clear that they NEVER intended to prevent religion from influencing the government. Quite the contrary - they wanted to make certain the government they were creating could not usurp any or all religions in the new nation - think "Church of England" headed by King George!

I usually avoid these touchy posts and threads. This time, I wanted to make sure our adorable CP just had her facts straight.



Sean

Oh, and as a PS.....

Santa Claus. Morphed into his current state from SAINT NICHOLAS. Now I've always thought of Saints as religious figures.....but that's just me. I totally agree with much of CP's last post. I have no strong religious beliefs, but I do respect them in others when they are held and lived up to - and I LOVE the Christmas season. F'd up, huh?

Sean

I'm gonna jump in for some fun here

While Santa can be considered a positive tradition (because it at least encourages good behavior from children), that borders on cultural for many Western societies -- it is not religious (because it motivates with materialistic instead of spiritual rewards; akin to 'praying for wealth' ).

Many Christians go as far as to consider Santa a tradition which undermines and distracts from the birth of Christ -- resulting in Christmas being the only birthday where everyone except the birthday Boy gets the present & attention...

S A N T A --> scrambled --> S A T A N Coincidence? You decide

Oh my loving god!! I walked out back to my trees last night, a lightning bolt struck 2 feet from me, a majority of people were standing around watching (one of them was from the HOA!) and, a very shy but somewhat noticeable spotted owl was peeking through one of the branches at me!!

OH Alec, you have shown me the light!!!

Where's the barfing smiley face when you need it!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by H2Finally:
I'm gonna jump in for some fun here

While Santa can be considered a positive tradition (because it at least encourages good behavior from children), that borders on cultural for many Western societies -- it is not religious (because it motivates with materialistic instead of spiritual rewards; akin to 'praying for wealth' ).

Many Christians go as far as to consider Santa a tradition which undermines and distracts from the birth of Christ -- resulting in Christmas being the only birthday where everyone except the birthday Boy gets the present & attention...

S A N T A --> scrambled --> S A T A N Coincidence? You decide </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's not a coincidence at all! In fact, both Santa (saint) and Satan - the OPPOSITE of a saint, have their roots in ancient Latin and, in a antithetical way, are words dealing with the same subject. You are right - many modern fundamentalist Christians abhore the whole Santa thing. Of course, many Catholics also ignore the golden crosses and fine purple robes which adorn the Vatican and the Pope - while they worship a man who wore sack cloth and was dressed in a purple robe near the time of his execution to HUMILIATE him. Let's not even talk about the radical fundamentalist Islamic community that believes Allah is calling them to suicide and mass murder.....there is enough hypocracy in this world to go around, huh?

I just like seeing little kids smile and giggle when the right jolly old elf comes around once a year.


Sean

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by h2co-pilot:
'Twas the night before Christmas, when all through the land
not a creature was stirring, just yer damn hand.
Jennifer was hung and she didn't care,
but hopes that no one would find it was there.



The members were nestled all snug at their desks,
and visions of good posts danced in their heads.
And Jen in her 'kerchief, with bawls in her lap,
had just settled down for a long forum's nap.



When out on the general section arose a clatter,
I sprang from my desk to see what was the matter.
Away from the screen I flew like a flash,
it was "Jennifer: the wang carrying troll" posting with panache. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Okay, CP, here ya go:

There once was a girl named Jen.
CP swore she had a wang like her Ken!!
Jen said "CP, that's a clit!
You stupid twit!
If YOU had one you'd smile now and then!!"


Please let me add that I agree with your general opinions but you just keep attacking me so you knew I would have to respond eventually in the same appropriate manner!!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jennifer:
TRIED TO PLAY NICE!! JUST DOESN'T WORK YOU GUYS. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> H3Lady?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by H3OwnerDiz:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jennifer:
TRIED TO PLAY NICE!! JUST DOESN'T WORK YOU GUYS. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> H3Lady? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

H3Lady w/ a Wang.

And you...you...Double-O-Dickweed , I avoid subjecting myself to liberal media as much as possible. You know what I was saying.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by h2co-pilot:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by H3OwnerDiz:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jennifer:
TRIED TO PLAY NICE!! JUST DOESN'T WORK YOU GUYS. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> H3Lady? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

H3Lady w/ a Wang. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Iyiyiyiyi!! Okay fine, I give. I have a wang and an H3. However, just so you know, the wang is HUUUGE, takes batteries and vibrates in the most beautiful of ways! And the H3, well, that would be my handsome 3 year old!

This was no fun to read.

I was a History and Political Science major, but I'm not going to get into this. I have a hangover.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Alec W:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jennifer:
Oh my loving god!! I walked out back to my trees last night, a lightning bolt struck 2 feet from me, a majority of people were standing around watching (one of them was from the HOA!) and, a very shy but somewhat noticeable spotted owl was peeking through one of the branches at me!!

OH Alec, you have shown me the light!!!

Where's the barfing smiley face when you need it! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I was joking about the whole thing I am not even close to being religious and could care less about god, the devil, santa or any of them.

I do believe in the mythical being known as the Supreme Hummer Lord though </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Three words. "I LOVE YOU!!!!"

Oh sorry, and, "THANK GOD!!"

Alec's got a boyfriend.......

Merry Christmas.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
Alec's got a boyfriend....... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>