New to offroading, how does the H3 compare with an Jeep Rubicon?

[EricJ]

As the title suggests I'm new to off-roading and I have a couple of co-workers who drive Jeep rubicons that give me crap about the Hummer. I know most of this is just for fun. However, for those who are into off-roading and have some experience, how does the H3 compare with say a new Jeep Rubicon? Will I be able to go on the same expeditions and weekend adventures as my co-workers?

[EricJ]

As the title suggests I'm new to off-roading and I have a couple of co-workers who drive Jeep rubicons that give me crap about the Hummer. I know most of this is just for fun. However, for those who are into off-roading and have some experience, how does the H3 compare with say a new Jeep Rubicon? Will I be able to go on the same expeditions and weekend adventures as my co-workers?

[Desert Dan]

When I get my H3 I will let you know! I hope to keep my Rubicon but add an H3 in the future!

The H3 does not have a front locker but with the Adventure Package you get 4.56:1 axle gears the Rubicon has only 4.11:1 gears.

Most people with Rubicon’s add a lift and a new t-case skid plate to get rid of the factory low hanging "shovel" and add 33" tires. All of this is not under a factory warranty or financing.

The Jeep is much lighter and has a shorter wheelbase. The Jeep will have more per to it since it has much less weight to haul around and the engine is made for low end torque. The Jeep will articulate more if you are into rockcrawling.

But with the Jeep you don't have 4 doors or creature comforts and the H3 has a bigger gas tank and probably better gas mileage. The H3 has more safety features than a basic Wrangler.

The H3 will be better on the road for sure and some places better off road where a long wheel bas come in handy!

[Desert Dan]

I am sure this debate will stir up lots of talk in the Hummer and Jeep crowd......


A few more things to add...

The H3 has a roof rack and more payload and towing capacity.

[richk]

Last year I sold my 2004 Jeep Wrangler. I had upgraded it with 4.5" lift, 33" tires, 4.56 gears. After I finished I was unhappy with the engine performance so I had an avenger super charger installed (which was great). After driving it for 6 months after that here are some of reasons I decided to sell:

The backseat was almost useless. I have 2 teenagers and they were very cramped in the back seat, so much so that we didn't use the Jeep as a family.
Even with the hard top the interior noise was annoying. I was wishing for a quieter car.
The ride was harse for a daily driver.
The gas milease was bad, around 15mpg, and to make matters worse the supercharger required premium fuel.

In the end I decided that the Jeep was too utilitarian for my lifestyle. It would have been great for a 2nd vehicle (toy, etc).

I think the H3 will be a great combination of off-road ruggedness and everyday driveability!

[Rocky Mts]

It's hard to say since the H3 is so new, but I'd guess that the Rubicon is slightly better off-road. The H3 is far superior as an everyday driver, however, and not much more expensive in the base version.

[usetosellhummer]

Skill level will be the factor. You can get the H3 to do almost all of what the Rubi will do. You will need the Adv package and most of all you will need some time to build up your skills. Start out slow and work your way up and take the jeep guys with you. When they see that Hummer twist they will be belivers.

[EricJ]

Thanks for the replies. I know skill will be a big factor and that will take some time to develop. I just hear alot of complaints/bashing especially regarding the H2 from the Jeep crowd here were I work.

[usetosellhummer]

see how many have driven one? Alot of people piss on what they can't have?

[DRTYFN]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by EricJ:
Thanks for the replies. I know skill will be a big factor and that will take some time to develop. I just hear alot of whining like little girls especially regarding the H2 from the Jeep crowd here were I work. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fixed.

[H3 Hummer]

Not good at comparisons with the jeep but according to the professionals at a Hummer happening, they said the H3 was very surprising at off road. Further more with some package with some low gear stuff they said it was excellent.

[FormerJeeper]

Comparing an H3 to a Wrangler Rubicon isn't really fair.
I've built a TJ wrangler all the way up to 38.5" tires, Atlas 2 t-case. shaved D70/D60 axles etc and it's a fun thing to do and great experience but a Wrangler is a lot smaller in every respect to an H3 and will wheel comletely differently.

You need to start with the wheelbase.

A stock Wrangler has 97.4", the Unlimited 101.4". The Grand Cherokee 111" or there abouts.
I believe the H3 is around 111" so if its a Jeep you are comparing, then compare it to the GC.
The H3 is a bit heavier but once you add bigger tires and armour to a GC, it's going to be close.

OK, the H3 with Adventure Package comes with 33" tires and a 4:1 t-case and a full rear locker.
The older ZJ GC can fit 33" tires with 6-7" of lift and a long arm kit for better stability but it's kind scary to drive, suffering from "death wobble" if the lift and allignment isn't performed correctly.

I don't know if anyone has lifted the last model GC, the WJ to fit 33s, but I know the wheel weels are smaller than on the ZJ.
I don't know how anyone would go about lifting the newest model in the front because of the IFS, but I'm sure it's doable at a price.

None of the GC models have a 4:1 t-case or fully locking diferentials.

OK, so suppose that the latest IFS equipped GC can be lifted 6" or so to fit 33s. The cost of the lift kit is going to be close to $2K for a quality long arm kit. Then you have to fit new tires. 5x decent offroad tires are $1K. 5x rims another $1K.
An Atlas 2 t-case for the 4:1 is another $2K. Then there's a fully locking differential like the ARB, add another $700. Regearing both diffs, add another $300+.
Then there's the rear bumper + swing out (for the 33" wheel) + rock rails, skid plates etc and you will be close to $10K on top of the new price, which to begin with is around the price of the H3 + AP.

It also gets worse gas mileage in stock form and now you've added the 33" tires and all the weight and increased the center of gravity and rolling resistance its a lot worse.


See what I'm getting at?

Yes, the Rubicon is a great rig but it's pretty basic in features and comfort. It's noisey, drifts and gets blown all over the highway but it will get you places in stock form that no other vehicle could come close to, until now

I'm too busy to go wheelin every weekend like I used to but it's still in my blood. I love it and miss it a lot.
When I found out the features availabe with H3 + AP, I was already sold.
Two test drives later (Luxury Package followed by AP) convinced me.
I didn't even drive the two blocks further to my local Jeep dealer and test drive the new GC.
The H3 was that impressive.
BTW, I traded a 04 Jeep Unlimited which I was sick of driving on the highway. It has a longer wheelbase than the stock TJ (whcih makes it smoother to drive) but it still got blown all over the road compared to my previous WJ GC.
The H3 by comparrison is like driving a luxury SUV. Smooth, solid and has as much apparent power as the Jeep Unlimited had and simillar, if not better, fuel economy.

Buy the H3

-C

[fuentex]

I have a friend who jsut got an H3 and I came over here to see what was on the internet about them.

I'm a Jeep guy, I own a 97 Cherokee, an 84 Scrambler and an 05 Rubicon Unlimited. I have no intention of starting a war, but I happened to see this and wanted to provide another point of view for you.

I agreee with the post above, comparing the H3 and the Rubicon overall is like comparing the Miata and the Corvette overall because they're both two-door cars. The H3 is a luxury SUV with offroad ability and the Rubicon is a rather utilitarian, offroad, removable-topped vehicle. (neither of those descriptions are meant to be disparaging)

Comparing the H3 to the GC overall is a better comparison... Jeep has yet to try to really deliver a solid offroad GC. I applaud any vehicle that has a locker from the factory, I think Jeep should do it in all of theirs as an option.

However, since the original question was regarding the offroad ability and not luxury, towing capacity, highway ride, etc. I thought that I had a great example of why Jeep people disparage the H2/3 in offroad situations...

H3 flex (stock I assume):


Rubicon Unlimited flex stock (and I didn't disconnect the swaybars, but that wouldn't really make that much more difference):


While simple flex is not the whole deal offroad, combine this with the facts that a Rubicon does have a 4:1 transfercase and two lockers... The 4:11 gears are indeed higher than an H3, but they're matched to the tire size (~31s) similarly to the 4.56 gears are to the 33s.

A BIG part of the issue is simplty attitude. People get in situations like the H3 pictured above and call themselves hardcore offroaders that can go anywhere a _____ can go (and no I'm not saying that is what that person claims, it's just an illustrative example).

If you didn't know, there's a very similar perception of Rubicon owners among other Jeep owners (CJ guys especially). Many buyers of Rubicons are doing it for the look/image and won't ever have their Jeep offroad and probably never in 4Lo... that's the thing that rubs people that really enjoy "hardcore" offroading the wrong way (no I'm not claiming my picture is hardcore). It's about knowing your vehicle, it's equipment for the task and your ability as a driver.

You can decide for yourself which one is more capable offroad in stock form in the hands of identically experienced drivers... I hope that another point of view helps some, I always like to look at both sides (which is why I came over here in the first place ).

Just to cover my bases, nothing in this post is meant to be confrontational or demeaning... I'm not a troll and I'm not trying to cause trouble.

[bparker]

Fuentex - well said and an excellent post.

[HummerJim]

Excellent review Fuentex! I would have to agree with a lot that you said. I was a confirmed Jeep man for many years because of where I live, but now find myself enjoying the differences of my Hummer. The Jeep does have some unique abilities offroad, but I find I can actually hear my radio in the H3 at highway speeds, ride the dog around with out him breathing down my neck, have an air conditioner that really keeps me comfortable, a seat that is really comfortable, and can do almost everything I need it to do offroad that 95% of the SUVs out there won't. Even in its base form the H3 is a luxurious ride. Oh yes, one other thing, this thing attracts attention every time you park it.
When tropical storm Dennis came through MO I got to finally see what the H3 would do in some serious mud driving up the trail to the house and through the creek. It made it where few other SUVs would dare to tread, but yesterday at 5,800 miles I put on 4 Goodyear Wrangler AT/Ss and the spare. I've had a lot of experience with these tires on two past 4 X 4s and became sold on them when I noticed on a vacation in Alberta, Canada, they are used almost exclusively on all the Calgary and Banff rescue 4 X 4s, being fantastic snow tires and those are always excellent mudders too. They seem to have a unique tread design that flexes the tread with remarkable self cleaning abilities and they wear well for such an aggressive tread design with not much noise either. I've had my old Jeep up to the hubs in snow and mud with these and like them - personal preference you might say.
I encountered my first problem when I energetically power washed the mud off the undercarriage last night and got a Check Engine
light followed by a Stability Sytem? annunciation. The H3 ran fine, so I pulled it in the garage and looked underneath and saw no hanging wires. About an hour later I went out and started it up and no annunciations and no problem. I'll have to step down the pressure on my power washer and I'm guessing I probably sprayed high pressure water into some sensor.
Took it out to get the paper this morning and no warning - pfm as we used to say in the Air Force.

[HummerJim]

OK, I won't keep everyone on pins and needles.
When I was a test pilot in the military, many, many, many, many years ago, when an aircraft would depart from the design perameters for an unknown reason, or a system would shut down and start back up and we had no idea why, we would enter PFM in the flight log. As far as I know NASA still uses this terminology today.
pfm = pure f...ing magic

[FormerJeeper]

Another thing to bear in mind if you are comparing an H3 with a GC...

If you have the misfortune of rolling either offroad, chances are you will be able to repair the damage to an H3 due to its solid frame design.

A GC, like all Cherokkes is of unibody construction
and analogous to a beer can. If you roll it off road it is done.
This has happened to more people than I care to remember. I 'almost' rolled my '98 Cherokee with 2000 miles on it coming down the infamous Thomson Hill on the famous Dusy Ershim trail.

Here is a link to this trail for the interested...

http://www.californiajeeper.com/dusy_ershim/review.htm

-C

[HummerNewbie]

PFM, sounds like a good new term for the forum

Great reviews fuentex and Jim.

Jim, where exactly in the Ozarks are you?

[fuentex]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sfox:
As a Hummer owner, I would have to say that the H3 will go places that would set a Rubicon aquiver with fear and admiration. In a head to head competition, the H3 would not only throughly trounce the Rubi, it would mount the Rubi and pee on it's spare tire. C'mon guys, you're buying Hummers now, quit being so wimpy about proclaiming your vehicle's off-road prowess

S </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And here I was so proud of my post for not inciting a riot and I was impressed with the attitude of the H3 folks for accepting another point of view... then this

If that's the conclusion you get after comparing the two in offroad capabilities... I hope there's no pictures if it's a Jeep that happens to get you out if you ever get stuck

Seriously, it's nice to see a board where everyone doesn't read ill intentions into everything posted with an alternative point of view. Happy people liked reading what I had to say.