FJ in action

[usetosellhummer]

still waiting for one to come play off-road. get real man. Hummer is it all others are a day late and a dollar short.

[The Green Lantern]

..can't wait for the Lexus version....lol

[31_bandits]

Originally Posted by The Green Lantern

..can't wait for the Lexus version....lol

that was funny

i bet it has wood accents

[PARAGON]

Originally Posted by usetosellhummer

still waiting for one to come play off-road. get real man. Hummer is it all others are a day late and a dollar short.

Perhaps if you got offroad yourself, you might see one.

[BlueHUMMERH2]

Ok, this is really coming as an extention of the "If you drive an FJ, you might be a sissy" thread:

I have indeed wheeled with an FJ. Here are the videos:
http://media.putfile.com/FJ1
http://media.putfile.com/FJ2
http://media.putfile.com/FJ3

Now, I'm being as objective as possible from what I've observed. I think, in the hands of a good operator, the FJ would equal an H3 with an equally good operator.

However, in the hands of a novice, the FJ and Wrangler do fare more poorly than the H3. The H3 (any Hummer actually) has an ability to make a novice driver into a somewhat skilled operator. I do not know if it is the traction systems, the feeling of being behind the wheel of a "Hummer", or simply the entire vehicle systems operating together. Having followed Wranglers (most raised, and otherwise modded) for two weekends now, and FJ's for one, the amount of damage and difficulty incurred by novice drivers is much higher in both vehicles than in any Hummer. However, with a skilled operator, the Wrangler is MORE capable at a location such as Paragon, due to the width of a Hummer, the length of the wheelbase, and the proximity of trees. A Hummer has a more difficult time because it has to take a more difficult line. So at a place like Paragon, a Wrangler is more.... eh, not capable, but has more room to pick an easier line, or avoid the more difficult section of the advanced trails. The Hummer has very little choice, as there is usually a factor that forces it to choose the only available line (like trees, cliffs, etc.) And when I say Wrangler, I mean one that you can still drive home legally and comfortably at the end of the day. No trailering.

Now in comparision to the FJ, I had that yellow one above following me at Paragon. It was noisy as hell to start with, more so than the H1, and sounded like a horrible go-kart, and not the nice rumble of a diesel. But I think that if a skilled driver had been in the vehicle, it would have been just fine. The guy in that one didn't even take the steps off, so I suppose that would tell us something about his experience off-highway.

I'd still take the H3, merely for the 4 doors and, IMHO, good looks. I would NOT choose a Wrangler. Even those that were moderately lifted with bigger tires and whatnot struggled where I did not, took a beating, and were a lot more tippy. The reason some Wranglers performed so well, IMHO, is in direct relation to three factors:

1. Width, wheelbase, and ability to avoid the difficult line.
2. Driver experience.
3. Less concern for the preservation of sheet metal and vehicle operability.

I still would like more experience with some stock FJ's on the trail operating alongside stock H3's. I still believe, from what little I've seen, that they would be a fair match. I could make a determination only after such a comparison, which I think has yet to occur with any members on this forum.

[PARAGON]

Originally Posted by BlueHUMMERH2

Ok, this is really coming as an extention of the "If you drive an FJ, you might be a sissy" thread:

I have indeed wheeled with an FJ. Here are the videos:
http://media.putfile.com/FJ1
http://media.putfile.com/FJ2
http://media.putfile.com/FJ3

Now, I'm being as objective as possible from what I've observed. I think, in the hands of a good operator, the FJ would equal an H3 with an equally good operator.

However, in the hands of a novice, the FJ and Wrangler do fare more poorly than the H3. The H3 (any Hummer actually) has an ability to make a novice driver into a somewhat skilled operator. I do not know if it is the traction systems, the feeling of being behind the wheel of a "Hummer", or simply the entire vehicle systems operating together. Having followed Wranglers (most raised, and otherwise modded) for two weekends now, and FJ's for one, the amount of damage and difficulty incurred by novice drivers is much higher in both vehicles than in any Hummer. However, with a skilled operator, the Wrangler is MORE capable at a location such as Paragon, due to the width of a Hummer, the length of the wheelbase, and the proximity of trees. A Hummer has a more difficult time because it has to take a more difficult line. So at a place like Paragon, a Wrangler is more.... eh, not capable, but has more room to pick an easier line, or avoid the more difficult section of the advanced trails. The Hummer has very little choice, as there is usually a factor that forces it to choose the only available line (like trees, cliffs, etc.) And when I say Wrangler, I mean one that you can still drive home legally and comfortably at the end of the day. No trailering.

Now in comparision to the FJ, I had that yellow one above following me at Paragon. It was noisy as hell to start with, more so than the H1, and sounded like a horrible go-kart, and not the nice rumble of a diesel. But I think that if a skilled driver had been in the vehicle, it would have been just fine. The guy in that one didn't even take the steps off, so I suppose that would tell us something about his experience off-highway.

I'd still take the H3, merely for the 4 doors and, IMHO, good looks. I would NOT choose a Wrangler. Even those that were moderately lifted with bigger tires and whatnot struggled where I did not, took a beating, and were a lot more tippy. The reason some Wranglers performed so well, IMHO, is in direct relation to three factors:

1. Width, wheelbase, and ability to avoid the difficult line.
2. Driver experience.
3. Less concern for the preservation of sheet metal and vehicle operability.

I still would like more experience with some stock FJ's on the trail operating alongside stock H3's. I still believe, from what little I've seen, that they would be a fair match. I could make a determination only after such a comparison, which I think has yet to occur with any members on this forum.

I think I've stated this before. Your opinion has as much impact as an ant's fart. Why waste the finger strength?

[BlueHUMMERH2]

I don't seem to have any problem loading them, nor have any others. They're about 20-25Mb.

[BlueHUMMERH2]

Norton Internet Security has zero issues. Nor does McAfee. I appreciate your concern, but the files appear, by all reputable sources, to be virus-free. I'm sorry, but it looks like everyone will be able to view them.

[Wisha Haddan H3]

Originally Posted by BlueHUMMERH2

Norton Internet Security has zero issues. Nor does McAfee. I appreciate your concern, but the files appear, by all reputable sources, to be virus-free. I'm sorry, but it looks like everyone will be able to view them.

I use the ZoneAlarm Security Suite and Spysweeper and had no problems with your links. Took a long time for my DSL to download, but that's due to file size and server speed.

[BlueHUMMERH2]

Originally Posted by Wisha Haddan H3

I use the ZoneAlarm Security Suite and Spysweeper and had no problems with your links. Took a long time for my DSL to download, but that's due to file size and server speed.

I can imagine that in the hands of the same skilled driver the FJ and H3 would perform similarly. Or even that a more skilled driver could take the FJ where a novice couldn't drive the H3. But there's no substitute for wheeling with both trucks at the same time over the same obstacles ... which as you said, no one's seen on this forum yet.

I do think some vehicles take better care of a driver than others, since throttle control, steering input, brakes and traction control are all controlled (or modified) by programming any more. Can't say if hummers take care of you better than jeeps, but it's head and shoulders above my old Blazer ZR2 (which took me up Radical Road and many other serious trails along the divide).

Thanks for the FJ videos. Didn't seem to do well, but I think driver skill was a HUGE factor there. Nice to see an FJ wheeling tho

Thank you for your refreshingly honest, level-headed, polite and sensible opinions. I'm glad you liked the FJ vids. I hope that on the next trip to Paragon I can get some more. Maybe with an H3 following behind!

[Wisha Haddan H3]

Originally Posted by BlueHUMMERH2

Ok, this is really coming as an extention of the "If you drive an FJ, you might be a sissy" thread:

I have indeed wheeled with an FJ. Here are the videos:
http://media.putfile.com/FJ1
http://media.putfile.com/FJ2
http://media.putfile.com/FJ3

Now, I'm being as objective as possible from what I've observed. I think, in the hands of a good operator, the FJ would equal an H3 with an equally good operator.

However, in the hands of a novice, the FJ and Wrangler do fare more poorly than the H3. The H3 (any Hummer actually) has an ability to make a novice driver into a somewhat skilled operator. I do not know if it is the traction systems, the feeling of being behind the wheel of a "Hummer", or simply the entire vehicle systems operating together. Having followed Wranglers (most raised, and otherwise modded) for two weekends now, and FJ's for one, the amount of damage and difficulty incurred by novice drivers is much higher in both vehicles than in any Hummer. However, with a skilled operator, the Wrangler is MORE capable at a location such as Paragon, due to the width of a Hummer, the length of the wheelbase, and the proximity of trees. A Hummer has a more difficult time because it has to take a more difficult line. So at a place like Paragon, a Wrangler is more.... eh, not capable, but has more room to pick an easier line, or avoid the more difficult section of the advanced trails. The Hummer has very little choice, as there is usually a factor that forces it to choose the only available line (like trees, cliffs, etc.) And when I say Wrangler, I mean one that you can still drive home legally and comfortably at the end of the day. No trailering.

Now in comparision to the FJ, I had that yellow one above following me at Paragon. It was noisy as hell to start with, more so than the H1, and sounded like a horrible go-kart, and not the nice rumble of a diesel. But I think that if a skilled driver had been in the vehicle, it would have been just fine. The guy in that one didn't even take the steps off, so I suppose that would tell us something about his experience off-highway.

I'd still take the H3, merely for the 4 doors and, IMHO, good looks. I would NOT choose a Wrangler. Even those that were moderately lifted with bigger tires and whatnot struggled where I did not, took a beating, and were a lot more tippy. The reason some Wranglers performed so well, IMHO, is in direct relation to three factors:

1. Width, wheelbase, and ability to avoid the difficult line.
2. Driver experience.
3. Less concern for the preservation of sheet metal and vehicle operability.

I still would like more experience with some stock FJ's on the trail operating alongside stock H3's. I still believe, from what little I've seen, that they would be a fair match. I could make a determination only after such a comparison, which I think has yet to occur with any members on this forum.

I can imagine that in the hands of the same skilled driver the FJ and H3 would perform similarly. Or even that a more skilled driver could take the FJ where a novice couldn't drive the H3. But there's no substitute for wheeling with both trucks at the same time over the same obstacles ... which as you said, no one's seen on this forum yet.

I do think some vehicles take better care of a driver than others, since throttle control, steering input, brakes and traction control are all controlled (or modified) by programming any more. Can't say if hummers take care of you better than jeeps, but it's head and shoulders above my old Blazer ZR2 (which took me up Radical Road and many other serious trails along the divide).

Thanks for the FJ videos. Didn't seem to do well, but I think driver skill was a HUGE factor there. Nice to see an FJ wheeling tho

[ZigsRig]

[quote=PARAGON]You are still an idiot. quote] = fat aggression release

[Wisha Haddan H3]

Originally Posted by PARAGON

You are still an idiot. You can scale it down to whatever parameters you want to. The facts remain.

It doesn't matter how YOU draw the comparison. Even on the same obstacle with the same driver. You will simply say the lines were different, the humidity changed, or the wind was blowing a different direction.

No paragon, you're mistaken. The fact remains that between the two of us, I'm the only one who has explained and defended his position on the FJ and H3 or been open-minded enough to consider the other's point of view.

I don't need the H3 to be the better wheeler. I'm ready accept the FJ as a better stock wheeler when I see evidence of it ... pictures, direct observations or an objective assessment by someone who doesn't hate H3s. Your say-so alone isn't enough. And until you explain your reasoning, your opinion is only so much hot air and your so-called facts will remain ... imaginary.

[PARAGON]

Originally Posted by Wisha Haddan H3

No paragon, you're mistaken. The fact remains that between the two of us, I'm the only one who has explained and defended his position on the FJ and H3 or been open-minded enough to consider the other's point of view.

I don't need the H3 to be the better wheeler. I'm ready accept the FJ as a better stock wheeler when I see evidence of it ... pictures, direct observations or an objective assessment by someone who doesn't hate H3s. Your say-so alone isn't enough. And until you explain your reasoning, your opinion is only so much hot air and your so-called facts will remain ... imaginary.

Nope, not mistaken.

You just answered your own riddle. Where have I been seen as an H3 hater besides when I made this comment about the FJ.

Point is that I don't give a shit what you say about your mindedness. Those that have cared to ask sensibly about my thoughts on the FJ know why and how it performed. The idea that you, or any others that question my credibility, views my opinion as hot air and facts as imaginary, is a hoot. It's not my job here to try to impress you.

[ZigsRig]

One thing to point out here...

First, Isnt it interesting how EVERYONE else's oppinion is wrong, or stupid... However, P's oppinion in his own mind are hard fact...

Also, why is it that people only argue with P? Could it be that his arrogant ways have overstayed his welcome?

[DennisAJC]

Originally Posted by ZigsRig

One thing to point out here...


Also, why is it that people only argue with P? Could it be that his arrogant ways have overstayed his welcome?

I'm sorry Zig. It was voted down 12 - 0 . Request denied.

[KenP]

Originally Posted by ZigsRig

One thing to point out here...

First, Isnt it interesting how EVERYONE else's oppinion is wrong, or stupid... However, P's oppinion in his own mind are hard fact...

Also, why is it that people only argue with P? Could it be that his arrogant ways have overstayed his welcome?

Has anyone here wheeled with an FJ other than Paragon? Has anyone here wheeled with 3's and FJ's other than Paragon?

Just curious.

[31_bandits]

Originally Posted by BlueHUMMERH2

1. Width, wheelbase, and ability to avoid the difficult line.
2. Driver experience.
3. Less concern for the preservation of sheet metal and vehicle operability.

.

4. some reasonable % of "trails" were cut through whatever by jeepers for jeeps. Do the same in reverse and get a different answer.

[BlueHUMMERH2]

Originally Posted by 31_bandits

4. some reasonable % of "trails" were cut through whatever by jeepers for jeeps. Do the same in reverse and get a different answer.

Agreed. The Paragon folks will even agree that the trails were cut for:
1. Small wheelbase
2. Skinny width

I think it's actually more fun, and more of challenge to make an H2 follow the Jeeps. The Jeeps are always surprised about how it does.