Great results from PCM for Less tuning . . .

Originally Posted by HummBebe

Nice....so no updated tune? Even a PM?

I'm not sure what you mean by updated tune? I do each one as it comes in?

[HummBebe]

Meaning a graph with all those little squiggly lines on it..., that was done for an H3. Recently.

I can understand if you don't want to share proprietary information with the whole whirrled.

What about changing the shift points for hauling around a set of 35's, a roof rack, front winch bumper, winch, rock rail-side steps, 2 roof ladders and a rear bumper?

Can it do that? I'm really curious, I'm a girl, you know.....kinda dumb when it comes to all this techie stuff.

Let's see it please. Nothing proprietary about the graph requested.

Originally Posted by HummBebe

Meaning a graph with all those little squiggly lines on it..., that was done for an H3. Recently.

I can understand if you don't want to share proprietary information with the whole whirrled.

What about changing the shift points for hauling around a set of 35's, a roof rack, front winch bumper, winch, rock rail-side steps, 2 roof ladders and a rear bumper?

Can it do that? I'm really curious, I'm a girl, you know.....kinda dumb when it comes to all this techie stuff.

Yes...the shift points are a large part of what we are doing with the transmission tuning. Some of our people on here have the 35's with the tune and tell us it makes a substantial difference.

I do not have any recent H3 graphs, sorry. The majority of truck folks (all trucks, not just H3) that stop by in person to get a tune aren't interested in ponying up the extra cash to get on the dyno. They want the seat of the pants difference...noticeable power, better shifting, etc etc and aren't really interested in knowing what it makes on the dyno.

[ChevyHighPerformance]

Originally Posted by HummBebe

Meaning a graph with all those little squiggly lines on it..., that was done for an H3. Recently.

I can understand if you don't want to share proprietary information with the whole whirrled.

What about changing the shift points for hauling around a set of 35's, a roof rack, front winch bumper, winch, rock rail-side steps, 2 roof ladders and a rear bumper?

Can it do that? I'm really curious, I'm a girl, you know.....kinda dumb when it comes to all this techie stuff.

I just looked at the stock PCM program for the 04, 05, 06 colorado I5 and the 06 H3. The high octane timing table is essentially the same (there are very small differences at low RPMs and low cylinder airmass) for all these vehicles/years. The WOT timing is identical. The commanded air/fuel ratio is identical. The timing and the A/F ratio are the major items that control engine performance. I would look at this 04 Canyon dyno curve and ratio the performance gain.

http://www.pcmforless.com/images/dyn...s/04Canyon.jpg

Stock 166 HP, tuned 182 HP -> ~10% increase in peak power

Stock 174 TQ, tuned 188 TQ -> ~8% increase in peak torque

It's reasonable to assume that the H3 would gain 10% HP and 8% torque with the same tune and octane fuel. This would make the 06's 220 HP -> ~ 242 HP about same as the 3.7L 2007.

The percenatage gain at the wheels would be the same, but the actual gain (delta HP gain) would be less since we have more drivetrain loss than the colorado/canyon. So, the 04 Canyon's HP gain of 16 HP at the wheels might be ~13 HP at the wheels for the H3.

A region that doesn't show up on the dyno plots is the off-idle power/torque. The custom tune really helps in this low RPM range but the range is rarely dyno'd (only felt by the seat-of-the-pants).

The other benefits of the custom tune are better idle quality, better auto tranny shifting RPM/speed and firmness, and many people see an improvement in MPG.

I think PCMforLess has a dynojet (front or rear wheels only) but not a 4-wheel dyno. 4-wheel dynos are expensive and pretty rare to come by and expensive. The problem is that not all wheelbases are the same so it becomes a business return-on-investment issue to buy a 4-wheel dyno. When I was publishing truck articles, I think I was the only person that could dyno an all-wheel drive/4-wheel drive vehicle within my state and all the nearby states.

I wouldn't take the lack of a dyno as something bad.

[HummBebe]

Thanks.

[westhillsat]

I'm getting the 315's put on next Friday.

I'm definitely going to get one of these tunes.

Thanks for everyone's input on this.

[Hunner]

Well somehow I have the heavyest H3 that I know of that has been weighed. 5640. I may go back and double check that. Even Bebe seems to have less than me somehow with all here new armour. I also pull a 3500 pound work trailer or a 14' Whaler. The tune smoothed out all the other mods I made and now it pulls both of these without all that downshifting and high reving even to passing gear just to run the interstate. I have the adventure with auto and 33.1 tires. I also have all kinds of anti-aerodynamic "stuff". I was one of those that did not even ask about hp and ft.lbs. I was more interested in gettin more low end and throttle response on trails and towing and highway shifing. I only recently saw the gains in hp and torque figures. Which are cheap increases. It all adds up.
I have found a way to get really good mileage also!

[CCMDoc]

Add me to the list of happy PCMforless customers.

I am about as hard-a$$ed when it comes to performance tunes as anyone and more than most. Ask Superchips, Powerchips and Absolut - I have worked with them all with a variety of cars and none were happy with my published and private comments. I dyno'ed my car before and after every single chip change (after doing whatever the chipper suggested was proper break-in) and not once did the dyno back up their claims.

On the other hand, my impression of the PCMforless tune is that "yes" there is modest improvement in power - let's face it 10-15 difference will not be noticeable in vehicles weighing what our H3s weigh. I was most interested in addressing shift points, the lousy feeling of "lugging" all of the time AND having it reprogrammed to account for my 35" MTs. Well, I got what i paid for and am very happy with it. My speedo now correlates with my GPS speed, it doesn't lug as it had, it does feel more peppy AND my gas mileage, which ahd dropped to 12 mpg (corrected for the odometer error associated with larger tires) when I went with 315/75-16 BFG MTs is now back up to 15mpg.

[Gottmud]

x2

[tomp]

I'd like to know exactly what changes are done to the base map. Spill it all out. I train Harley Davidson techs on fuel injection tuning in my spare time, so I understand maps etc.

If you are not tuning on a dyno and have no dyno maps for the H3, then you are telling me you are winging it and probably doing nothing more that bumping up the timing or slightly modifying someone elses canned maps.

Sounds to me as if you guys are paying half as much for a hand held programmer and only getting a single map and no hand-held programmer. On top of that you have to deal with this loaner ECM crap. THen do it each time you want to make a change? How is this a good deal, I'd like to know?

You guys are paying this turd a rediculous amount of money for hardly nothing. He bought the tuning software, makes a 10 second change and charges you how much?

I tell you what, I will do what he's doing and 10 times better for less money. I will take my wifes H3 down to the dyno and custom tune every cell in the map (which I gurantee this turd does not do!) and completely blow his maps away and have the dyno results to prove it.

Bottom line, if he's not dyno tuning every single vehicle, then you are getting a "canned" map and not custom tuned for your vehicle. Do yourself a favor and just by a hand-held programmer. they are very easy to use. If you want more than that, get the custom mapping done on a dyno.

Thanks for putting in the good word

[ChevyHighPerformance]

Originally Posted by tomp

I'd like to know exactly what changes are done to the base map. Spill it all out. I train Harley Davidson techs on fuel injection tuning in my spare time, so I understand maps etc.

If you are not tuning on a dyno and have no dyno maps for the H3, then you are telling me you are winging it and probably doing nothing more that bumping up the timing or slightly modifying someone elses canned maps.

Sounds to me as if you guys are paying half as much for a hand held programmer and only getting a single map and no hand-held programmer. On top of that you have to deal with this loaner ECM crap. THen do it each time you want to make a change? How is this a good deal, I'd like to know?

You guys are paying this turd a rediculous amount of money for hardly nothing. He bought the tuning software, makes a 10 second change and charges you how much?

I tell you what, I will do what he's doing and 10 times better for less money. I will take my wifes H3 down to the dyno and custom tune every cell in the map (which I gurantee this turd does not do!) and completely blow his maps away and have the dyno results to prove it.

Bottom line, if he's not dyno tuning every single vehicle, then you are getting a "canned" map and not custom tuned for your vehicle. Do yourself a favor and just by a hand-held programmer. they are very easy to use. If you want more than that, get the custom mapping done on a dyno.

"I'd like to know exactly what changes are done to the base map. Spill it all out. I train Harley Davidson techs on fuel injection tuning in my spare time, so I understand maps etc."

Why would a tuning company divulge what numbers they change on every tables? How does this make for good business sense?

"If you are not tuning on a dyno and have no dyno maps for the H3, then you are telling me you are winging it and probably doing nothing more that bumping up the timing or slightly modifying someone elses canned maps."

Actually, most real tuners (like LPE) tune so far on the dyno then finalize it on the track/street/strip. The problem is that the inertial dynos (and some other dynos) don't load down the vehicle (or motorcycle) as it is actaully loaded on the road. How do you account for the various riders' heights/frontal areas when loading down the bike when dyno tuning to get the proper aerodynamic drag for proper drivetrain loading? Yeah, that's what I thought.

"Sounds to me as if you guys are paying half as much for a hand held programmer and only getting a single map and no hand-held programmer. On top of that you have to deal with this loaner ECM crap. THen do it each time you want to make a change? How is this a good deal, I'd like to know?"

A Hypertech handheld or Jet performance piggyback isn't going to get you to the customization of a personal tune.

"You guys are paying this turd a rediculous amount of money for hardly nothing. He bought the tuning software, makes a 10 second change and charges you how much?"

Do you know these people? Have you done any research? So far I have not seen any complaints about PCMforLess on here, other H3 forums, and colorado/canyon forums.

"I tell you what, I will do what he's doing and 10 times better for less money. I will take my wifes H3 down to the dyno and custom tune every cell in the map (which I gurantee this turd does not do!) and completely blow his maps away and have the dyno results to prove it."

Shut up and do it. Post all of your table changes. Strap your wife's H3 on to your motorcycle dyno and see what happens. (pssst don't stand in front of the H3) Some simple questions:

1) What load are you going to place on the wheels for each cell?
2) How many VE tables does the H3 use?
3) The programming has a table that adjusts timing for different intake air temperatures. Is your dyno in an evironmentally controlled room so that you can tune every cell in the map for every possible intake temperature from -40 to 248 F (since this is the table range).
4) The programming has a table that adjusts timing for engine coolant temperatures. Do you have a coolant heater/cooler to adjust water temperature (over -4 to 284 F - since this is the table range) so that you can tune every cell in the map.

How are you going to do 10 times better? How do you meaure the improvement - horsepower gain? So, if PCMforLess produces 15 HP gain you are going to produce a 150 horsepower gain?

"Bottom line, if he's not dyno tuning every single vehicle, then you are getting a "canned" map and not custom tuned for your vehicle. Do yourself a favor and just by a hand-held programmer. they are very easy to use. If you want more than that, get the custom mapping done on a dyno."

Why would you pay twice as much for a canned map from a hand-held programmer?

[westhillsat]

I guess everyone's entitled to their opinions.

Personally, I'm placing my order for a PCM tune this afternoon.

I have read the threads on PCM for Less on Elcova and on
Hummerforums.com - EVERYONE that has gotten a tune has
been happy with it. There was a major skeptic on Hummerforums
that I understand in the beginning gave major flack about this company
and its tunes, well now he has one of their tunes and is SUPER HAPPY with the tune.

I'm putting 315's on my truck and this tune will do what I want it to:
correct the shift points, show the correct mileage on the speedometer/odometer and give me a smoother ride. I will also get some other benefits as other posters/threads have mentioned, for me that will be great!

ChevyHighPerformance and others with the technical knowledge that I don't have, have looked into this company and are satisfied - so that is good enough for me for what I need done.


If you don't like or care for the company - then don't buy their product.

It is evident to me that tomp doesn't even have the slightest idea of what I do. It is more than changing one map, my friend.

I don't feel as if I have to respond to his post, seeing as I am just a turd anyway.

[tomp]

Originally Posted by ChevyHighPerformance

"I'd like to know exactly what changes are done to the base map. Spill it all out. I train Harley Davidson techs on fuel injection tuning in my spare time, so I understand maps etc."

Why would a tuning company divulge what numbers they change on every tables? How does this make for good business sense?

"If you are not tuning on a dyno and have no dyno maps for the H3, then you are telling me you are winging it and probably doing nothing more that bumping up the timing or slightly modifying someone elses canned maps."

Actually, most real tuners (like LPE) tune so far on the dyno then finalize it on the track/street/strip. The problem is that the inertial dynos (and some other dynos) don't load down the vehicle (or motorcycle) as it is actaully loaded on the road. How do you account for the various riders' heights/frontal areas when loading down the bike when dyno tuning to get the proper aerodynamic drag for proper drivetrain loading? Yeah, that's what I thought.

"Sounds to me as if you guys are paying half as much for a hand held programmer and only getting a single map and no hand-held programmer. On top of that you have to deal with this loaner ECM crap. THen do it each time you want to make a change? How is this a good deal, I'd like to know?"

A Hypertech handheld or Jet performance piggyback isn't going to get you to the customization of a personal tune.

"You guys are paying this turd a rediculous amount of money for hardly nothing. He bought the tuning software, makes a 10 second change and charges you how much?"

Do you know these people? Have you done any research? So far I have not seen any complaints about PCMforLess on here, other H3 forums, and colorado/canyon forums.

"I tell you what, I will do what he's doing and 10 times better for less money. I will take my wifes H3 down to the dyno and custom tune every cell in the map (which I gurantee this turd does not do!) and completely blow his maps away and have the dyno results to prove it."

Shut up and do it. Post all of your table changes. Strap your wife's H3 on to your motorcycle dyno and see what happens. (pssst don't stand in front of the H3) Some simple questions:

1) What load are you going to place on the wheels for each cell?
2) How many VE tables does the H3 use?
3) The programming has a table that adjusts timing for different intake air temperatures. Is your dyno in an evironmentally controlled room so that you can tune every cell in the map for every possible intake temperature from -40 to 248 F (since this is the table range).
4) The programming has a table that adjusts timing for engine coolant temperatures. Do you have a coolant heater/cooler to adjust water temperature (over -4 to 284 F - since this is the table range) so that you can tune every cell in the map.

How are you going to do 10 times better? How do you meaure the improvement - horsepower gain? So, if PCMforLess produces 15 HP gain you are going to produce a 150 horsepower gain?

"Bottom line, if he's not dyno tuning every single vehicle, then you are getting a "canned" map and not custom tuned for your vehicle. Do yourself a favor and just by a hand-held programmer. they are very easy to use. If you want more than that, get the custom mapping done on a dyno."

Why would you pay twice as much for a canned map from a hand-held programmer?

-I never asked for the exact numbers
-It's called a "Load Controlled Dyno" since you don't know
-Exactly wht I referred to a custom tune on a dyno my unknowing friend
-Don't need to know them, just know what they are charging and not doing a thorough tune on top of that. Simply they are making changes by loading canned maps and no personalization is done in the form of a custom tune.
-I have access to auto & bike load-controlled dynos and even 4-wheel drive dyno with load control
-A map can be 10 times better because there is more than just wide open throttle increases. There are variations in VE, (MAP) Manifold Absolute Pressure, throttle position, timing, engine temp, outside temp, etc. There are thousands of different combinations and variances in these different cells, so there can be much more than a 10x improvement/comparison.
-Yes, the Dyno rooms are temp controlled, exhaust evacuation, and forced air provided for cooling. Each Cylinder is also probed and can be tuned independently if you want to get extreme.

And your post is nothing more than a desperate attempt....LOL

[Gottmud]

[tomp]

Originally Posted by keliente

It is evident to me that tomp doesn't even have the slightest idea of what I do. It is more than changing one map, my friend.

I don't feel as if I have to respond to his post, seeing as I am just a turd anyway.

Somehow, I knew you wouldn't respond. Know need to post exact cell numbers, and I never asked for that. But you know you are way overcharging for the few seconds of changes you are doing to each ECM.

(Patiently awaiting your next dance move)

[Gottmud]

Tomp. This kind of slander is uneccessary. Calling someone a turd on a public forum is downright rude. I probably am in the majority of owners on this forum, that were, and are, looking for a quick fix for some improvement in performance. Through word of mouth, and solid media advertising, I was convinced this was the way I needed to go. I am not a gear head, and dynos blah blah has no interest for me. Positive comments from other members on this board was the deciding factor for me to contact kelly and order a PCM. It was quick, painless, and in my opinion, very effective. My mpg has gone from 12 to 15 miles to the gallon, and I really like the new feel of the transmission. IT WAS MY CHOICE TO GO WITH THIS COMPANY. The last time I checked CNN news we had not been invaded, thus I presume we are STILL & ALWAYS WILL BE A FREE COUNTRY. That being said, we have the choice to do biz with any one we choose to, irrelevant if any one else thinks the product is good or bad.
Please keep your potty mouth to yourself

[ChevyHighPerformance]

Originally Posted by tomp

-I never asked for the exact numbers
-It's called a "Load Controlled Dyno" since you don't know
-Exactly wht I referred to a custom tune on a dyno my unknowing friend
-Don't need to know them, just know what they are charging and not doing a thorough tune on top of that. Simply they are making changes by loading canned maps and no personalization is done in the form of a custom tune.
-I have access to auto & bike load-controlled dynos and even 4-wheel drive dyno with load control
-A map can be 10 times better because there is more than just wide open throttle increases. There are variations in VE, (MAP) Manifold Absolute Pressure, throttle position, timing, engine temp, outside temp, etc. There are thousands of different combinations and variances in these different cells, so there can be much more than a 10x improvement/comparison.
-Yes, the Dyno rooms are temp controlled, exhaust evacuation, and forced air provided for cooling. Each Cylinder is also probed and can be tuned independently if you want to get extreme.

And your post is nothing more than a desperate attempt....LOL

You have all this technology and knowledge at your fingertips and you want to know - "I'd like to know exactly what changes are done to the base map. Spill it all out." Why would you want to know what an inferior turd company is doing if you can do it ten times better.

All in the same post: First, you want to know exactly what they are changing. Then, you call them a turd company. Finally, you say you can do it ten times better.

Sounds like you are on the foreskin of technology and really don't need anyone's help.