Hip-Hop is Dead!

[dеiтайожни]

That doesn't make much sense. You are saying a person can only speak about their current situation. They are entertainers, like actors who may portray people they aren't, ever have been or ever will be. So after a rapper gets their first hit and is a multimillionaire.. they have to start rapping about their new situation? I'm sure they would be popular rapping about the downsides of fame and how long it takes to vacuum an 18,000 sq ft house.

The more money a rapper makes the more attention they get, obviously you aren't going to hear about every new rapper's affairs until they do something worthy of air time.

Again, I don't know what you guys think your qualifications to make these claims are. You have no idea what rap entails besides the 4 songs that the media tells you are bad. You aren't making decisions for yourselves, you are doing as you are told.

[MarineHawk]

Originally Posted by dеiтайожни

That doesn't make much sense. You are saying a person can only speak about their current situation. They are entertainers, like actors who may portray people they aren't, ever have been or ever will be.

It's a nice argument, but one that defies reality. When people see these rap videos on MTV or BET or whatever (I've seen plenty), it seems like these guys are acting like what they really are (in a perhaps exaggerated manner). That's the message they are trying to convey. It's obvious. They are trying to act like they really are violent, anti-establishment, warlord thugs. It increases their revenue and plays to their basest instincts. When Kurt Russell played Snake Plissken or when Peter O'Toole played the murderous Henry II, no one ever thought that O'Toole and Russell were murderers. The rap stars WANT their audience to think they're killers - not so much Russell anbd O'Toole. And the rapper gangstas achive a fair degree of success in that endeavor. That's the difference. You can deny it all you want, but I bet that most people get this intuitively.

Music is only music. I listen to rap, jazz, rock, classical too. And last night I saw Madame Butterfly performed by the San Jose Opera at the fully restored California 1920's theater downtown.

[The ArchiTexan]

Dei, granted, you are an arguer, but your argument is weak. From what I read the anti-rappers win. Your arguments for the positive side not only fall short, but there is no support, facts, or documentation from any ?highly regarded? expert, other than yourself. Most all of us who are for rap?s demise could come up with any number of authoritative citations about the dangerous and detrimental affects of rap on the general culture at large. So continue with your stubborn, narrow minded, blinded opinions. It is useless arguing with youth because you know everything and regard any information contrary to your views as worthless and antiquated.

[dеiтайожни]

Originally Posted by The ArchiTexan

Dei, granted, you are an arguer, but your argument is weak. From what I read the anti-rappers win. Your arguments for the positive side not only fall short, but there is no support, facts, or documentation from any ?highly regarded? expert, other than yourself. Most all of us who are for rap?s demise could come up with any number of authoritative citations about the dangerous and detrimental affects of rap on the general culture at large. So continue with your stubborn, narrow minded, blinded opinions. It is useless arguing with youth because you know everything and regard any information contrary to your views as worthless and antiquated.

I'm shocked, you've been against this the entire time and now you are taking a stand and saying I'm wrong. Listening to you about what rap is, is about as brilliant as asking a 4 year old for retirement planning advice.

You can state that there is violence in the world but I'm telling you it's not because of rap. Go ahead, get rid of rap for a few years. I'm willing to do that to prove to you that violence and the like will still be around without it.

[The ArchiTexan]

Nobody said that getting rid of rap would end violence or crime. Violence and crime will always be with us. Killing rap will end part of the glorification. There is no need to glorify the disgusting, the ugly, or the violent. These are all hallmarks of rap. Although youth must rebel, why is it they mostly choose the most unattractive path. Rarely do youth rebel against their parents or society by surpassing them or making the world more beautiful. Youth have the knack of lowering the standards set by their predecessors. You could be proud to say that you’re definitely part of the ugly mob.

[dеiтайожни]

Originally Posted by The ArchiTexan

Nobody said that getting rid of rap would end violence or crime. Violence and crime will always be with us. Killing rap will end part of the glorification. There is no need to glorify the disgusting, the ugly, or the violent. These are all hallmarks of rap. Although youth must rebel, why is it they mostly choose the most unattractive path. Rarely do youth rebel against their parents or society by surpassing them or making the world more beautiful. Youth have the knack of lowering the standards set by their predecessors. You could be proud to say that you?re definitely part of the ugly mob.

And I'm telling you that rap isn't what you are saying it is. I'm certainly more of an expert on it than you are, as you don't even listen to it. Give me 1 song that glorifies violence and crime and I'll give you 10 that don't. How many people my age do you converse with on a daily basis? How long has it been since you were in high school or college? I think I have a little better idea of what the actual effect of rap is on the people you are worried about than you do.

[dеiтайожни]

Originally Posted by The ArchiTexan

It is useless arguing with youth because you know everything and regard any information contrary to your views as worthless and antiquated.

Playing the age card, huh? Do I take it you are out of the debate then? You really didn't have much to offer anyhow. How old does one have to be before their opinions and views will matter? At what age will you become a push-over and give into the opinion of a majority? As CP mentioned, I'm not much younger than the rest of you.

[The ArchiTexan]

Silly boy, it's time for your nap. You'll know all about the world when you grow up....goodnight.

[dеiтайожни]

Originally Posted by The ArchiTexan

Silly boy, it's time for your nap. You'll know all about the world when you grow up....goodnight.

Nice playing with you. Bye.

[The Green Lantern]

BTT

[dеiтайожни]

Originally Posted by MarineHawk

It's a nice argument, but one that defies reality. When people see these rap videos on MTV or BET or whatever (I've seen plenty), it seems like these guys are acting like what they really are Depp acted like he really was George Jung in Blow (in a perhaps exaggerated manner). That's the message they are trying to convey. It's obvious. They are trying to act like they really are violent, anti-establishment, warlord thugs. It increases their revenue and plays to their basest instincts. When Kurt Russell played Snake Plissken or when Peter O'Toole played the murderous Henry II, no one ever thought that O'Toole and Russell were murderers. The rap stars WANT their audience to think they're killers Actors WANT their audience to think they're what their characters are, too. It wouldn't be too real if Al Pacino acted like Viktor Taransky from Simone while playing Tony Montana in Scarface.- not so much Russell anbd O'Toole. And the rapper gangstas achive a fair degree of success in that endeavor. Bad actors don't make money either, incentive to be good. That's the difference. You can deny it all you want, but I bet that most people get this intuitively.

The difference is, rappers' characters are based on themselves, they market themselves whereas Al Pacino will market Tony Montana, Michael Corleone and Sonny. For rappers, it is what they will always be, they didn't take Kurt Russell and think up an entire fictional movie based around him, it was the opposite. And it's not going to be his character for life, he can go from Escape from New York to Captain Ron freely. P. Diddy can't just switch genres and go be Christina Aguilera for a day.

[RubHer Yellow Ducky]

Originally Posted by dеiтайожни

That doesn't make much sense. You are saying a person can only speak about their current situation. They are entertainers, like actors who may portray people they aren't, ever have been or ever will be. So after a rapper gets their first hit and is a multimillionaire.. they have to start rapping about their new situation? I'm sure they would be popular rapping about the downsides of fame and how long it takes to vacuum an 18,000 sq ft house.

The more money a rapper makes the more attention they get, obviously you aren't going to hear about every new rapper's affairs until they do something worthy of air time.

Again, I don't know what you guys think your qualifications to make these claims are. You have no idea what rap entails besides the 4 songs that the media tells you are bad. You aren't making decisions for yourselves, you are doing as you are told.

Hold on there youngster !!!!!!

No ONE and I mean NO ONE tells me what to like and dislike...

I make my own decisions and I have listened to rap and yes there is some that doesn't talk about killing the man(police) and some that doesn't talk about doin it to someones daughter...

BUT the stuff that gets played over and over, more then not is the stuff thats promotes crime, violence, sex, drugs and death...

I'm 60 and everyday I learn something new, the same way YOUNG kids, teens, 18 & 19 year olds AND Younger Adults do. The younger you are the more influenced you are by your peers and heros. ALL generations before us had there rebels but none of them DEGRADED WOMEN & society the way rap does...

Luckily GOTH never made it big but it still isn't on the same level as rap. Sorry a lot of rap is CRAP.......................

A lot of music is crap. And the crap I avoid. Nobody is going to tell me what to (or not to) listen to. This is American and money talks.

Sweeping statements about one type of music or another don't mean squat. I'll do whatever the f*ck I want.

[The Green Lantern]

Originally Posted by RubHer Yellow Ducky

Hold on there youngster !!!!!!

No ONE and I mean NO ONE tells me what to like and dislike...

I make my own decisions and I have listened to rap and yes there is some that doesn't talk about killing the man(police) and some that doesn't talk about doin it to someones daughter...

BUT the stuff that gets played over and over, more then not is the stuff thats promotes crime, violence, sex, drugs and death...

I'm 60 and everyday I learn something new, the same way YOUNG kids, teens, 18 & 19 year olds AND Younger Adults do. The younger you are the more influenced you are by your peers and heros. ALL generations before us had there rebels but none of them DEGRADED WOMEN & society the way rap does...

Luckily GOTH never made it big but it still isn't on the same level as rap. Sorry a lot of rap is CRAP.......................

Amen

Too much blue!

[h2co-pilot]

[dеiтайожни]

[h2co-pilot]

Originally Posted by dеiтайожни

.

[dеiтайожни]

Originally Posted by h2co-pilot

[h2co-pilot]

OKay here is an interesting article from Friday (bitches ):

Friday, March 09, 2007

Has rap music hit a wall?


March 5, 2007

NEW YORK (Associated Press) -- Maybe it was the umpteenth coke-dealing anthem or soft-porn music video. Perhaps it was the preening antics that some call reminiscent of Stepin Fetchit.

The turning point is hard to pinpoint. But after 30 years of growing popularity, rap music is now struggling with an alarming sales decline and growing criticism from within about the culture's negative effect on society.

Rap insider Chuck Creekmur, who runs the leading Web site Allhiphop.com, says he got a message from a friend recently "asking me to hook her up with some Red Hot Chili Peppers because she said she's through with rap. A lot of people are sick of rap ... the negativity is just over the top now." (Watch how hip-hop can revel in stereotypes -- or highlight injusticeVideo)

The rapper Nas, considered one of the greats, challenged the condition of the art form when he titled his latest album "Hip-Hop is Dead." It's at least ailing, according to recent statistics: Though music sales are down overall, rap sales slid a whopping 21 percent from 2005 to 2006, and for the first time in 12 years no rap album was among the top 10 sellers of the year.

A recent study by the Black Youth Project showed a majority of youth think rap has too many violent images. In a poll of black Americans by The Associated Press and AOL-Black Voices last year, 50 percent of respondents said hip-hop was a negative force in American society.

Nicole Duncan-Smith grew up on rap, worked in the rap industry for years and is married to a hip-hop producer. She still listens to rap, but says it no longer speaks to or for her. She wrote the children's book "I Am Hip-Hop" partly to create something positive about rap for young children, including her 4-year-old daughter.

"I'm not removed from it, but I can't really tell the difference between Young Jeezy and Yung Joc. It's the same dumb stuff to me," says Duncan-Smith, 33. "I can't listen to that nonsense ... I can't listen to another black man talk about you don't come to the 'hood anymore and ghetto revivals ... I'm from the 'hood. How can you tell me you want to revive it? How about you want to change it? Rejuvenate it?"

Hip-hop also seems to be increasingly blamed for a variety of social ills. Studies have attempted to link it to everything from teen drug use to increased sexual activity among young girls.

Even the mayhem that broke out in Las Vegas during last week's NBA All-Star Game was blamed on hip-hoppers. "(NBA Commissioner) David Stern seriously needs to consider moving the event out of the country for the next couple of years in hopes that young, hip-hop hoodlums would find another event to terrorize," columnist Jason Whitlock, who is black, wrote on AOL.

While rap has been in essence pop music for years, and most rap consumers are white, some worry that the black community is suffering from hip-hop -- from the way America perceives blacks to the attitudes and images being adopted by black youth.

But the rapper David Banner derides the growing criticism as blacks joining America's attack on young black men who are only reflecting the crushing problems within their communities. Besides, he says, that's the kind of music America wants to hear.

"Look at the music that gets us popular -- 'Like a Pimp,' " says Banner, naming his hit.

"What makes it so difficult is to know that we need to be doing other things. But the truth is at least us talking about what we're talking about, we can bring certain things to the light," he says. "They want (black artists) to shuck and jive, but they don't want us to tell the real story because they're connected to it."

Criticism of hip-hop is certainly nothing new -- it's as much a part of the culture as the beats and rhymes. Among the early accusations were that rap wasn't true music, its lyrics were too raw, its street message too polarizing. But they rarely came from the youthful audience itself, which was enraptured with genre that defined them as none other could.

"As people within the hip-hop generation get older, I think the criticism is increasing," says author Bakari Kitwana, who is currently part of a lecture tour titled "Does Hip-Hop Hate Women?"

"There was a more of a tendency when we were younger to be more defensive of it," he adds.

During her '90s crusade against rap's habit of degrading women, the late black activist C. Dolores Tucker certainly had few allies within the hip-hop community, or even among young black women. Backed by folks like conservative Republican William Bennett, Tucker was vilified within rap circles.

In retrospect, "many of us weren't listening," says Tracy Denean Sharpley-Whiting, a professor at Vanderbilt University and author of the new book "Pimps Up, Ho's Down: Hip-Hop's Hold On Young Black Women."

"She was onto something, but most of us said, 'They're not calling me a bitch, they're not talking about me, they're talking about THOSE women.' But then it became clear that, you know what? Those women can be any women."

One rap fan, Bryan Hunt, made the searing documentary "Hip-Hop: Beyond Beats and Rhymes," which debuted on PBS this month. Hunt addresses the biggest criticisms of rap, from its treatment of women to the glorification of the gangsta lifestyle that has become the default posture for many of today's most popular rappers.

"I love hip-hop," Hunt, 36, says in the documentary. "I sometimes feel bad for criticizing hip-hop, but I want to get us men to take a look at ourselves."

Even dances that may seem innocuous are not above the fray. Last summer, as the "Chicken Noodle Soup" song and accompanying dance became a sensation, Baltimore Sun pop critic Rashod D. Ollison mused that the dance -- demonstrated in the video by young people stomping wildly from side to side -- was part of the growing minstrelization of rap music.

"The music, dances and images in the video are clearly reminiscent of the era when pop culture reduced blacks to caricatures: lazy 'coons,' grinning 'pickaninnies,' sexually super-charged 'bucks,' " he wrote.

And then there's the criminal aspect that has long been a part of rap. In the '70s, groups may have rapped about drug dealing and street violence, but rap stars weren't the embodiment of criminals themselves. Today, the most popular and successful rappers boast about who has murdered more foes and rhyme about dealing drugs as breezily as other artists sing about love.

Creekmur says music labels have overfed the public on gangsta rap, obscuring artists who represent more positive and varied aspects of black life, like Talib Kweli, Common and Lupe Fiasco.

"It boils down to a complete lack of balance, and whenever there's a complete lack of balance people are going to reject it, whether it's positive or negative," Creekmur says.

Yet Banner says there's a reason why acts like KRS-One and Public Enemy don't sell anymore. He recalled that even his own fans rebuffed positive songs he made -- like "Cadillac on 22s," about staying away from street life -- in favor of songs like "Like a Pimp."

"The American public had an opportunity to pick what they wanted from David Banner," he says. "I wish America would just be honest. America is sick. ... America loves violence and sex."