New to offroading, how does the H3 compare with an Jeep Rubicon?

[fuentex]

I'd agree with everything you said if you are comparing an H3 and a Wrangler X (base model).

I'd agree with a few things if you are comparing a regular Wrangler Rubicon (space is very minimal/restricted and I'd never consider one)

You get a whole new level of functionality with a Rubicon Unlimited (what I own and a much better comparison to an H3). My friend who bought the H3 looked hard at a Rubi LJ too and went with the H3 for the comfort level and passenger room (no agument here on either of those counts).

Having not seen an H3 in person, can you get the 25 fence posts in with the rear seat up? If so, I'm very impressed. If not, are you aware that the rear seat of a Wrangler comes out and in the Unlimited flavor that opens up a very large space in the back. True that it's certainly not the size of the H3 cargo area and you have to plan ahead to take the seat out (does anyone pick up 25 fence posts on the spur of the moment though ), but I helped a friend move with the rear seat out and it held an amazing amount of crap (especially with the hard top that you can just pile things up against, I had the hard top on at the time). I'm not saying it can haul as much/more than an H3 by any means, just that it's WAY more functional than a regular Wrangler if you weren't aware.

I would disagree with the comment about the off-road differences being minimal in some categories, as the suspension flex photos and lack of a front locker would indicate. Both of those, while not being a dealbraker offroad by any means, are quite significant in my mind. Here on the east coast prerunning and sand driving are not real big as there's just no place to do them, so I'm talking from the trail riding/rockcrawling POV and can't speak to that terrain.

And of course, it's obvious that if you want anything that has the word "luxury" in the description, the H3 is the choice as it was for my friend.

Without a single power option, no leather (but the A/C works incredibly well... as opposed to what some people have apparently heard/experienced) and a "Jeep-like" driving experience, the Rubicon Unlimited wouldn't be for you

Just a counterpoint again...

[fuentex]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sfox:
Extending a TJ by 18" does make a difference, but it still doens't have the storage room of a Hummer...or the towing capacity... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I said as much on both points (3500 lb. vs 4500 lb. on towing capacity just so it's here).

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">As to the flex of a STOCK Rubi... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

My picture is a 100% stock Rubicon LJ (unless you count the iPod adapter ).

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">...not particularly impressive </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In all seriousness, do you think an H3 would have all 4 wheels planted on the hill I picutured after looking at the ones I posted? Honestly now... I've never ridden in/with an H3 so I have no choice but to respect your opinion on that (and anyone reading can judge for themselves).


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">...and the width and wheelbase of a Hummer makes up for some flex defeciencies with balance and stability </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Width, yes, it's much wider, but that's still a picture of an H3 in a flexy situation in my initial post and the width didn't really seem to help. I can defintely see the width helping (and hurting BTW) in other situations though.

Wheelbase H3: 111.9, LJ: 103.4 that's 8.5 inches (8.2%) on an already long wheelbase... you decide if that's significant. I would argue that 8.5 inches added to a normal TJ wheelbase would indeed be singnificant, but that once you're already out in the 100+ inch range, it's much less so.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">(and the rear end of H2's and H3's flex more than you probably think). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Possibly, but there's pictures like this. At least they did stick with a solid axle in the rear and I'm sure different springs/shackles could help here.




<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The lack of a front locker is debatable (but cheap to install if you really need one)... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm curious what you consider cheap. To match the Rubi's selectable locker (and the rear selectable in the H3) you're looking at something like this: $899 plus install which (if done "properly") would include resetting the gears. I just paid $150 to have my front D44 Detroit installed in my Scrambler and that was with the axle out of the vehicle and totally stripped down.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">...but honestly most people would be their own worst enemy with a front locker when off-roading. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's one way to look at it. Could have been a nice option in the Adventure (IIRC) package though.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Now let's put the Rubi (even an unlimited) on a nice steep hill climb and put the Hummer on the same hill....which one is gonna be more "uncomfortable" to be in? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have been discussing only the Rubicon Unlimited, as a better comparison to the H3 in size.

See my comment about the difference in wheelbase. I don't really know what you consider "uncomfortable" but neither my Scramber (104" wheelbase) or Unlimited have ever felt anything close to "uncomfortable" on steep hills. I guess it's familiarity with the vehicle maybe? Again, once you're 100+" in wheelbase you're pretty dang stable on hills.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Like I said different vehicles, different strengths....and the Hummer wins walking away as a daily use vehicle. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Except for maybe the "walking away" comment, I'll totally agree with this

[bparker]

fuentex:

Please dont argue (not saying you are as you are debating well but I see this thread starting to digress).

You have made some very nice posts and accurate. I have owned both a higly modified ZJ and now the H3 and you are correct on all points.

I agree the Rubi and the Rubi ULs are different animals and I thinkt he H3 should be compared to a lifted GC myself.

There are pros and cons to everything so only in the eye of the beholder is one of them percieved to be the best. Let that sink in....

[fuentex]

You said it. I didn't post to start anything and that's why I hadn't replied to the last two.

Just wanted a thorough discussion since I was here. I enjoyed this and would always keep it civil, no worries To each his own!

As long as you'll still let me give my friend some good-natured crap for buying a Hummer over a Jeep

[bparker]

sfox:

I will do my talking on the trail and if need be argue face to face and not on the internet.

I doesnt matter if you are driving a monster truck as its all about who is driving it and what THEY are capable of.

I have owned Chevy all my life so please make note. But I do recognize the pros or the Rubis and am not afriad to admit it. But which one did I buy???

Take care,

Brent

[bparker]

Because I have a 10" dong and dont care to argue about it when the proof is on the trial when you make the nae sayers go OMG! Did you see that!! =)

I know what the H3 can do which is why I didnt buy a Rubi Unlimited and lift it then drive a crappy vehichle down the road. I bought an H3 that is 300% better on road and 95% as good on the trail.

/salute

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sfox:
But I don't get why you guys would idly sit by and "be told" how your vehicle is inferior... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[bparker]

hahaha, ya this is true, and I hope I didnt offend anyone. I love my H3 more than I did my Vette. Well maybe my vette just got old to me but I and my GF are having a blast in the H3. I dont care if it was a piece of **** on the trail (which I know its not), I love it!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sfox:
See, you must not be NEARLY as bored at work todayas I am...fighting on the internet can kill an hour faster than just about anything else

S </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[fuentex]

You guys are a trip Sorry I was in a meeting for the last hour and missed out on the fun!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bparker:
I know what the H3 can do which is why I didnt buy a Rubi Unlimited and lift it then drive a crappy vehichle down the road. I bought an H3 that is 300% better on road and 95% as good on the trail.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well said, although lifted TJ/LJs can be made to ride quite well and safely, if you're into the nice street ride/room and all of your other valid points along with great offroad capability go H3. (Note that we're debating levels of greatness in offroad capability, I take issue that I "bagged" the H3 anywhere. I admitted you were right on a number of points!).

Please consider, hard as it may be to believe, some people LIKE the Jeep-like ride on-road just like some people like to drop their rides and put on stiff shocks for the on-road handling (this is straying off the topic of the thread though).

If I had my dream, I'd be driving a restored Scrambler around daily I LIKE feeling like I'm in a Jeep, it's something different than everything else out there. It's NOT for everyone and I never said it was.

I've already offered to go trail riding with my friend in his H3, I'm very interested to see how it stacks up against my different Jeeps! I tried not to draw too many conclusions and asked for informed opinions. Sorry if it came off another way.

If we need another new, larger DD, you BETTER believe that the H3 would be on the list from what I've read around here (probably ahead of a Jeep GC for the reasons you mentioned) and learned from my friend.

Maybe I'll see you all on the trail sometime and you can show me what an H3 can do.

[bparker]

Yea I thought it was cool too for a few years. But I am getting older and wiser so why have a rig that will dart off the road if you let the steering wheel go if you dont need to? LOL

I know LAs makem smooth but dont lie, you know that solid axel in the front wanders like a chicken with its head cut off down the road. Not to mention death wobble after trailing for a weekend and trying to drive home praying to GOD that you dont hit the "right bump".

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by fuentex:
, some people LIKE the Jeep-like ride on-road </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[fuentex]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bparker:
Yea I thought it was cool too for a few years. But I am getting older and wiser so why have a rig that will dart off the road if you let the steering wheel go if you dont need to? LOL

I know LAs makem smooth but dont lie, you know that solid axel in the front wanders like a chicken with its head cut off down the road. Not to mention death wobble after trailing for a weekend and trying to drive home praying to GOD that you dont hit the "right bump".
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Apparently I'm in for a surprise at some point. I have not had this problem nearly to that extent. (Or are you talking about lifted TJs?)

Does it drive like a car? Heck no and I don't want it to. But all my rides back from the trail have been nice cruises at ~80 MPH, it has a real sweet spot in 6th gear on the highway right at 80-85.

[ChevyHighPerformance]

fuentex,

The 1st picture of the H3 looks like the drivers rear tire is about 18 inches below the pass. rear tire and the pass front has about over 16 inches to hit the ground. It looks like the H3 body is being twisted in opposite directions. Would the rubi really be able to keep all 4 wheels on the ground here?

The rubi picture seems to show the rear wheels and pass fron at the same elevation while the drivers front is elevated about 16 inches. It looks like the rubi has a very stiff front sway bar, since the body is aligning with the front wheels.

The 2nd hummer picture seems to show another uneven twist of the h3. The drivers front looks about 10ish inches lower while the pass rear need about 10 more inches to hit the ground.

It could be the way these pitures were taken too.

In both H3 pictures the H3 body seems more flat.

[fuentex]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ChevyHighPerformance:
fuentex,

The 1st picture of the H3 looks like the drivers rear tire is about 18 inches below the pass. rear tire and the pass front has about over 16 inches to hit the ground. It looks like the H3 body is being twisted in opposite directions. Would the rubi really be able to keep all 4 wheels on the ground here?

The rubi picture seems to show the rear wheels and pass fron at the same elevation while the drivers front is elevated about 16 inches. It looks like the rubi has a very stiff front sway bar, since the body is aligning with the front wheels.

The 2nd hummer picture seems to show another uneven twist of the h3. The drivers front looks about 10ish inches lower while the pass rear need about 10 more inches to hit the ground.

It could be the way these pitures were taken too.

In both H3 pictures the H3 body seems more flat. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good points but those are the pictures that I have.

Typically, the TJs (read: solid axles) do a good job in keeping tires down in situations like the first H3 is in because the "high" tire pushes the "low" tire to the ground.

Edit: Kinda like this... this one's lifed and all, but you get the idea. This just happens on both ends independently of the body when opposite corners are "high"

[f5fstop]

Might be a dumb question from an experienced Jeep driver who is seriously looking at getting an H3.
There are many mentions of the H3 not having a front locker; however, no mention that in the picture shown of the H3 with the right wheel in the air, the front left tire might be pulling, while the right tire in the air has no power applied.
No, there is no front locker available for the H3, but the power in the front axle is efficiently transferred to the wheel on the ground (non-spinning wheel if both wheels are on the ground and one is spinning).
As for front lockers; ever see someone who is not experience in driving with a locked from axle?