Another Broke Tie Rod

[Bad Dawg]

Was out with the Dealer outing this last Saturday and was climbing a nice hill and sure enough the front end started bouncing (it seems to bounce more that the unlifted stock ones?)as my wife was slowly moving to the top. The spotter stopped us and said the driver side had bent. Edmark Hummer is the dealer and they are great. The service manager was with our group again and he ran all the way back in to the dealer and got another tie rod and came back and replaced the busted one.
My question is that we are close to getting rid of the H2 if we can't feel like we can go out and do some mild playing without feeling safe in doing so. We are looking for some heavy duty tie rods to try first. Does any one know if the 1-ton GMC tie rods fit? If they do, are they bigger? I own a 2001 1-ton but didn't get a chance to go look at it at home yet. I know others on here have gone with after market tie rods, but I can't find a name anywhere for the name of the brands out there. Help.

[Bad Dawg]

Was out with the Dealer outing this last Saturday and was climbing a nice hill and sure enough the front end started bouncing (it seems to bounce more that the unlifted stock ones?)as my wife was slowly moving to the top. The spotter stopped us and said the driver side had bent. Edmark Hummer is the dealer and they are great. The service manager was with our group again and he ran all the way back in to the dealer and got another tie rod and came back and replaced the busted one.
My question is that we are close to getting rid of the H2 if we can't feel like we can go out and do some mild playing without feeling safe in doing so. We are looking for some heavy duty tie rods to try first. Does any one know if the 1-ton GMC tie rods fit? If they do, are they bigger? I own a 2001 1-ton but didn't get a chance to go look at it at home yet. I know others on here have gone with after market tie rods, but I can't find a name anywhere for the name of the brands out there. Help.

[DURAMAX TIM]

The HD2500 and 3500 use same tierods.
I know a guy who makes SS sleeves that go over the rods to increase strength.
PM me and I'll find his info.

[DURAMAX TIM]

The HD2500 and 3500 use same tierods.
I know a guy who makes SS sleeves that go over the rods to increase strength.
PM me and I'll find his info.

[HummerLV]

try this for tie rods
http://www.fly-n-hi.com/FST/steering.htm

[HummerLV]

try this for tie rods
http://www.fly-n-hi.com/FST/steering.htm

[Bad Dawg]

HummerLV - I saw pictures of the Fly-N-Hi ones. They are bigger but aluminum. Have you had any experiance with them?

Duramax Tim - SS sleeve huh? I'll send you an e-mail. By the way, interesting that we have similar rigs. We have a 2001 Chevy D/A CC SLT LB too. Don't you post on the "Diesel Page" too?

[Bad Dawg]

HummerLV - I saw pictures of the Fly-N-Hi ones. They are bigger but aluminum. Have you had any experiance with them?

Duramax Tim - SS sleeve huh? I'll send you an e-mail. By the way, interesting that we have similar rigs. We have a 2001 Chevy D/A CC SLT LB too. Don't you post on the "Diesel Page" too?

[HummerLV]

no first hand experience, but have asked them to get me more info on them, will post any new info as it comes in.

[HummerLV]

no first hand experience, but have asked them to get me more info on them, will post any new info as it comes in.

[SunsetShannon]

BD...
RubberDuck is now making a heavy duty tie-rod for the H2. Although I have not had a chance to try them out personally, he is well known in the H1/H2 arena for custom offraoding parts. Many of us have his undercarriage protection.

www.rubberduck4x4.com (http://www.rubberduck4x4.com)

[SunsetShannon]

BD...
RubberDuck is now making a heavy duty tie-rod for the H2. Although I have not had a chance to try them out personally, he is well known in the H1/H2 arena for custom offraoding parts. Many of us have his undercarriage protection.

www.rubberduck4x4.com (http://www.rubberduck4x4.com)

[kdio]

Here is another link
http://www.unlimitedoffroad.com/

[kdio]

Here is another link
http://www.unlimitedoffroad.com/

[Bad Dawg]

Shannon - Rubber Duck's site doesn't open. Can't see their stuff. I've looked at your rig and their site in the past. Seems like nice stuff

kdio - http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif $710 http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif And $100 to unscrew the old ones off and screw theirs on. Man I hate it when folks charge so much more just because it's for an H2. I guess they think H2 owners got what we have by being dumb and spending money like we haven't earned it.

[Bad Dawg]

Shannon - Rubber Duck's site doesn't open. Can't see their stuff. I've looked at your rig and their site in the past. Seems like nice stuff

kdio - http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif $710 http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif And $100 to unscrew the old ones off and screw theirs on. Man I hate it when folks charge so much more just because it's for an H2. I guess they think H2 owners got what we have by being dumb and spending money like we haven't earned it.

[HummerLV]

• May 2004•


FST (Fabrication Suspension Technology) GM steering upgrade

Press Release
• Chevy and GMC 4x4 •

Immediate Release

FST (Fabrication Suspension Technology) has developed a steering upgrade for GM models that are equipped with inner socket and tie rod style steering. It's easily installed using factory geometry points. Not only does it offer the proven extreme heavy duty durability of ¾" 4130 chrome-moly heim joints and 7075 aircraft aluminum, it has an industrial look as well.

This upgrade heim joint steering kit is available for the following vehicles:

GM HD 1999 - current

GM H2 Hummer 2002 - current

GM Quad Steer Rear 2003 - current

GM Quad Steer Front 2003 - current

GM ¾ ton 1999 - current

GM 1 ton 1999 - current

GM 1 ton dual 1999 - current

GM Avalanche ¾ ton 2003 - current

GM Avalanche ½ ton 2002 - current

GM ½ ton 1999 - current

½ ton Yukon 1999 - current

¾ ton Yukon 1999 - current

½ ton Yukon XLT 1999 - current

¾ ton Yukon XLT 1999 - current


Contact Information:

FST (Fabrication Suspension Technology)
4401 W. Jefferson Phoenix, AZ 85043 602-484-7127.
www.fstmotorsports.com (http://www.fstmotorsports.com)

[HummerLV]

• May 2004•


FST (Fabrication Suspension Technology) GM steering upgrade

Press Release
• Chevy and GMC 4x4 •

Immediate Release

FST (Fabrication Suspension Technology) has developed a steering upgrade for GM models that are equipped with inner socket and tie rod style steering. It's easily installed using factory geometry points. Not only does it offer the proven extreme heavy duty durability of ¾" 4130 chrome-moly heim joints and 7075 aircraft aluminum, it has an industrial look as well.

This upgrade heim joint steering kit is available for the following vehicles:

GM HD 1999 - current

GM H2 Hummer 2002 - current

GM Quad Steer Rear 2003 - current

GM Quad Steer Front 2003 - current

GM ¾ ton 1999 - current

GM 1 ton 1999 - current

GM 1 ton dual 1999 - current

GM Avalanche ¾ ton 2003 - current

GM Avalanche ½ ton 2002 - current

GM ½ ton 1999 - current

½ ton Yukon 1999 - current

¾ ton Yukon 1999 - current

½ ton Yukon XLT 1999 - current

¾ ton Yukon XLT 1999 - current


Contact Information:

FST (Fabrication Suspension Technology)
4401 W. Jefferson Phoenix, AZ 85043 602-484-7127.
www.fstmotorsports.com (http://www.fstmotorsports.com)

[HummerLV]

photos

[HummerLV]

photos

[HummerLV]

photo2

[HummerLV]

photo2

[HummerLV]

info off " The Aluminum Association, Inc" website.

Aluminum plate is used in the manufacture of aircraft and for fuel tanks in spacecraft. An airframe of a modern commercial transport aircraft is 80 percent by weight (MNAB Report #476, "New Materials for Next Generation Aircraft"). Structural components of current United States Navy aircraft are made of fabricated wrought aluminum (forged, machined, and assembled parts). There are efforts underway to persuade the Navy to adopt aluminum casting technology which offers lower manufacturing cost, the ability to form complex shapes, and the flexibility to incorporate innovative design concepts.

Aircraft manufacturers use high-strength alloys (principally alloy 7075) to strengthen aluminum aircraft structures. Alloy 7075 has zinc and copper added for ultimate strength, but because of the copper it is very difficult to weld. It anodizes beautifully. 7075 has the best machinability and results in the finest finish.

http://www.aluminum.org/Content/NavigationMenu/The_Industry/Transportation_Market/Aircraft/Aircraft.htm

I think it would be strong enough for our applications.

[HummerLV]

info off " The Aluminum Association, Inc" website.

Aluminum plate is used in the manufacture of aircraft and for fuel tanks in spacecraft. An airframe of a modern commercial transport aircraft is 80 percent by weight (MNAB Report #476, "New Materials for Next Generation Aircraft"). Structural components of current United States Navy aircraft are made of fabricated wrought aluminum (forged, machined, and assembled parts). There are efforts underway to persuade the Navy to adopt aluminum casting technology which offers lower manufacturing cost, the ability to form complex shapes, and the flexibility to incorporate innovative design concepts.

Aircraft manufacturers use high-strength alloys (principally alloy 7075) to strengthen aluminum aircraft structures. Alloy 7075 has zinc and copper added for ultimate strength, but because of the copper it is very difficult to weld. It anodizes beautifully. 7075 has the best machinability and results in the finest finish.

http://www.aluminum.org/Content/NavigationMenu/The_Industry/Transportation_Market/Aircraft/Aircraft.htm

I think it would be strong enough for our applications.

[PARAGON]

Aluminum alloys would be a much better material for a tie rod. First the strength is not an issue, they can be made as strong as needed. Secondly and more importantly they would be able to absorb more abuse. Aluminum gives more that steel and can "flex" some without distortion. It just costs much more to fabricate aluminum parts compared to steel.

[PARAGON]

Aluminum alloys would be a much better material for a tie rod. First the strength is not an issue, they can be made as strong as needed. Secondly and more importantly they would be able to absorb more abuse. Aluminum gives more that steel and can "flex" some without distortion. It just costs much more to fabricate aluminum parts compared to steel.

[cinci]

Most of the information that I have seen on that type of solution is that the heim joints don't hold up well for street use. I saw a 6"
lifted H2 at windrock that was supercharged and was running 38.5" boggers. Last year he broke four tie rods on one hill and this year he had a similar setup to the ones you have pictured from supposedly SMA. But I was told that after the event his heim joints were worn out.

I will be trying out another set of the Rubber Duck 4x4 tie rods this next week at Kinsalow and will let you know how things work out.

[cinci]

Most of the information that I have seen on that type of solution is that the heim joints don't hold up well for street use. I saw a 6"
lifted H2 at windrock that was supercharged and was running 38.5" boggers. Last year he broke four tie rods on one hill and this year he had a similar setup to the ones you have pictured from supposedly SMA. But I was told that after the event his heim joints were worn out.

I will be trying out another set of the Rubber Duck 4x4 tie rods this next week at Kinsalow and will let you know how things work out.

[Bad Dawg]

Thanks for all the good info. More than I have seen for the H2 on here. However, we may very likely trade back in our H2 afterall. We will be losing money but we feel that we should not be having to replace parts like the tie rods to bring up the quality of a rig like this. The tie rods are an obvious weak point and dispite the fact we have a mild lift we should not be having to improve the parts. We have been building rigs for over 20 years and this is the first time this has happened. Too bad, we really like the H2 otherwise, but we bought it to use it as advertised, not to commute in. We don't feel safe going out on even a mild trail without something else breaking. Good luck to you all who use your rigs.

[Bad Dawg]

Thanks for all the good info. More than I have seen for the H2 on here. However, we may very likely trade back in our H2 afterall. We will be losing money but we feel that we should not be having to replace parts like the tie rods to bring up the quality of a rig like this. The tie rods are an obvious weak point and dispite the fact we have a mild lift we should not be having to improve the parts. We have been building rigs for over 20 years and this is the first time this has happened. Too bad, we really like the H2 otherwise, but we bought it to use it as advertised, not to commute in. We don't feel safe going out on even a mild trail without something else breaking. Good luck to you all who use your rigs.

[Longhorn]

Yes you're totally right. You'd better return the vehicle immediately. God forbid you have to replace a tie rod. Thats reason enough to take a 15-20K loss. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

You might try the tie rod replacement before you throw in the towel.

What else have you broken that has made you so skittish?

[Longhorn]

Yes you're totally right. You'd better return the vehicle immediately. God forbid you have to replace a tie rod. Thats reason enough to take a 15-20K loss. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

You might try the tie rod replacement before you throw in the towel.

What else have you broken that has made you so skittish?

[partsguy]

you also got to think that mabey
the tie rod breaks so another more
important part does not.gm has done
that in the past.00 cavaliers wiper
motors have a crank arm on it,if you
turn it on and the blade are frozen to
the windshield the crank arm breaks
instead of the motor.

[partsguy]

you also got to think that mabey
the tie rod breaks so another more
important part does not.gm has done
that in the past.00 cavaliers wiper
motors have a crank arm on it,if you
turn it on and the blade are frozen to
the windshield the crank arm breaks
instead of the motor.

[Bad Dawg]

Longhorn-
The first time out after we bought it we were climbing a similar hill to the one on the Hummer outing last Saturday along with the Land Cruiser club we belonged to. We made a couple of attempts to get through a slippery spot and decided to give it one more try. We heard a bang and found ourselves with the front differential literally busted in half, the transfer case was toast, the passenger side tie rod was bent in half and the rear end had parts sticking out of the rear cover. This was with the rig completely stock. (Did I mention that none of the other rigs doing the same thing broke during the trip?). The first outing with the dealer Hummer Happening we were going down the same wash board road as the other dozen H2's and suddenly found the steering wheel turned to the left . We pulled over to find both front ball joints at the "A" arms had come completely out of the sockets they were pressed into. We were lucky and found a local guy who had a welder to tack the ball joints on so we could get back to the dealer (Did I mention that we were the only ones who broke anything that day?). It now had the lift on it but the service manager decided it was because of the first breakage that weakened the ball joints. This was the third time going out trail riding with our rig. Then the forth time out, sure enough, for the third time doing what every other rig was doing, we bent the wimpy tie rod on our $60K "Like Nothing Else" rig. My first thought were that folks on here have been through this a LOT and maybe would know of some good "fixes" for this tie rod issue. Understand that all of these breakages happened while doing mild, ordinary 4x4ing. The more I thought about it the more upset I got thinking that I need to consider paying somebody like Fly-n-hi $710 for a couple of tie rods to fix what shouldn't need fixing. I have the same parts and lift on my 1-ton dually which has been through a lot more with no problems. What can I expect if I go out by myself and wife camping and come up to a little hill I need to climb?

We were really hoping we could make it on just one outing without busting something else. I know this forum will blast us for saying all this, and believe me I hate coming to this conclusion, but I don't feel the H2 is what it is advertised to be. It might be fine for those who like fixing broken parts all the time or for those of you who never see the dirt, but I need something I can depend on. Damn, I hate getting rid of it, but we want to USE it. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

partsguy -
A windshield wiper breaking out in the middle of nowhere isn't exactly the same as a busted tie rod. I understand what you are saying about the tie rod going before another more important part does, but these tie rods are bending WAY to quickly. It isn't just the tie rod, I am afraid of what's next.

Sorry for being long winded. We may change our minds again before the hour ends but I'm frustrated.

[Bad Dawg]

Longhorn-
The first time out after we bought it we were climbing a similar hill to the one on the Hummer outing last Saturday along with the Land Cruiser club we belonged to. We made a couple of attempts to get through a slippery spot and decided to give it one more try. We heard a bang and found ourselves with the front differential literally busted in half, the transfer case was toast, the passenger side tie rod was bent in half and the rear end had parts sticking out of the rear cover. This was with the rig completely stock. (Did I mention that none of the other rigs doing the same thing broke during the trip?). The first outing with the dealer Hummer Happening we were going down the same wash board road as the other dozen H2's and suddenly found the steering wheel turned to the left . We pulled over to find both front ball joints at the "A" arms had come completely out of the sockets they were pressed into. We were lucky and found a local guy who had a welder to tack the ball joints on so we could get back to the dealer (Did I mention that we were the only ones who broke anything that day?). It now had the lift on it but the service manager decided it was because of the first breakage that weakened the ball joints. This was the third time going out trail riding with our rig. Then the forth time out, sure enough, for the third time doing what every other rig was doing, we bent the wimpy tie rod on our $60K "Like Nothing Else" rig. My first thought were that folks on here have been through this a LOT and maybe would know of some good "fixes" for this tie rod issue. Understand that all of these breakages happened while doing mild, ordinary 4x4ing. The more I thought about it the more upset I got thinking that I need to consider paying somebody like Fly-n-hi $710 for a couple of tie rods to fix what shouldn't need fixing. I have the same parts and lift on my 1-ton dually which has been through a lot more with no problems. What can I expect if I go out by myself and wife camping and come up to a little hill I need to climb?

We were really hoping we could make it on just one outing without busting something else. I know this forum will blast us for saying all this, and believe me I hate coming to this conclusion, but I don't feel the H2 is what it is advertised to be. It might be fine for those who like fixing broken parts all the time or for those of you who never see the dirt, but I need something I can depend on. Damn, I hate getting rid of it, but we want to USE it. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

partsguy -
A windshield wiper breaking out in the middle of nowhere isn't exactly the same as a busted tie rod. I understand what you are saying about the tie rod going before another more important part does, but these tie rods are bending WAY to quickly. It isn't just the tie rod, I am afraid of what's next.

Sorry for being long winded. We may change our minds again before the hour ends but I'm frustrated.

[HummerLV]

fly-n-hi kit
$950.00 + shipping- tie rod kit
$1650.00+ shipping- tie rods, pitman arm, idler arm.

[HummerLV]

fly-n-hi kit
$950.00 + shipping- tie rod kit
$1650.00+ shipping- tie rods, pitman arm, idler arm.

[Longhorn]

I'm honestly sorry you've had so much trouble. I've been out countless times and have yet to have any serious failures. For that matter, I have yet to witness any failures in person.

Maybe you got a lemon? Maybe the lift is to blame? Maybe you have a heavy right foot? Perhaps you are the worst H2 pilot ever http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif?

It just sounds like there are other forces at play here. I would have some very direct communication with my dealer about these issues if I were you. I hope you decide to hold on to your truck. What would you replace it with?

[Longhorn]

I'm honestly sorry you've had so much trouble. I've been out countless times and have yet to have any serious failures. For that matter, I have yet to witness any failures in person.

Maybe you got a lemon? Maybe the lift is to blame? Maybe you have a heavy right foot? Perhaps you are the worst H2 pilot ever http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif?

It just sounds like there are other forces at play here. I would have some very direct communication with my dealer about these issues if I were you. I hope you decide to hold on to your truck. What would you replace it with?

[BKLYNH2]

Ditto what longhorn said.
One need only look at all the stories and photos on this site to confirm that the H2 is extremely capable and durable.

[BKLYNH2]

Ditto what longhorn said.
One need only look at all the stories and photos on this site to confirm that the H2 is extremely capable and durable.

[Detonate]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LonghornRockcrawler:
Maybe you got a lemon? Maybe the lift is to blame? Maybe you have a heavy right foot? Perhaps you are the worst H2 pilot ever http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Exactly. If driven correctly, these things just don't magically break.

You should know before hand how high the risk is of something breaking.

When I broke my front differential, before I even attempted to bump the ledge, I knew there was a chance something was going to break if the front end bounced. And it did.

[Detonate]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LonghornRockcrawler:
Maybe you got a lemon? Maybe the lift is to blame? Maybe you have a heavy right foot? Perhaps you are the worst H2 pilot ever http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Exactly. If driven correctly, these things just don't magically break.

You should know before hand how high the risk is of something breaking.

When I broke my front differential, before I even attempted to bump the ledge, I knew there was a chance something was going to break if the front end bounced. And it did.

[HummerLV]

check to see if your area has a lemon law on the books, here in NV our lemon law is quite extensive.

[HummerLV]

check to see if your area has a lemon law on the books, here in NV our lemon law is quite extensive.

[Bad Dawg]

I hear what you guys are saying. After the first breakage we realized we could not drive the H2 like all the other rigs we have had in the past. "Slow" is the key word here for the H2 and the front end it has. So, all outings since then have been slow going, with the other H2's in the group. This time out the wife was driving and being spotted by the dealer's reps at the time, going as slow as all the other rigs before her. A couple of bounces later, pow, bent tie rod. The dealer even said we were going slow. Could it be the lift? Maybe, but a 4" lift isn't extreme and if it is for the H2 then the H2's front end is at the edge of it's window for being able to handle off road playing. It was even suggested that the MTR tires, because of the more agressive tread, was to blame! We aren't crazy, extreme four wheelers (we save that for our Mud Drags). I have been reading on here for a couple of years now how a lot of stock rigs have also been bending tie rods and blowing out their front ends. Is ours a lemon? I don't think so, a bent tie rod doesn't make it a lemon. Besides, because we have a lift we would never win that battle. Someone suggested we carry spare tie rods with us, because H2's bend them so much you can expect it to happen to you at some point. Seems like a strange thing to have to do for mild 4 wheeling. If I have some tougher tie rods built (we have an NHRA chassis builder here who built our racing rigs roll cage) then Hummer will certainly write off any coverage for swaping out their parts.
Speaking of that sort of thing, I got a call back from Hummer last night and they said: "It is Hummer's policy to NOT warrentee ANY damage from off road driving, even if it is an H2 sanctioned event. Any damage is concidered road hazard". http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif Hmmm. I wish there had been a sign on the H2 warning buyers that if the H2 is ever taken off road they will not stand behind their product.
The easy answer here is that it's all my fault because of the 4" lift and 37" tires. The H2 has no problems. It's just me.

[Bad Dawg]

I hear what you guys are saying. After the first breakage we realized we could not drive the H2 like all the other rigs we have had in the past. "Slow" is the key word here for the H2 and the front end it has. So, all outings since then have been slow going, with the other H2's in the group. This time out the wife was driving and being spotted by the dealer's reps at the time, going as slow as all the other rigs before her. A couple of bounces later, pow, bent tie rod. The dealer even said we were going slow. Could it be the lift? Maybe, but a 4" lift isn't extreme and if it is for the H2 then the H2's front end is at the edge of it's window for being able to handle off road playing. It was even suggested that the MTR tires, because of the more agressive tread, was to blame! We aren't crazy, extreme four wheelers (we save that for our Mud Drags). I have been reading on here for a couple of years now how a lot of stock rigs have also been bending tie rods and blowing out their front ends. Is ours a lemon? I don't think so, a bent tie rod doesn't make it a lemon. Besides, because we have a lift we would never win that battle. Someone suggested we carry spare tie rods with us, because H2's bend them so much you can expect it to happen to you at some point. Seems like a strange thing to have to do for mild 4 wheeling. If I have some tougher tie rods built (we have an NHRA chassis builder here who built our racing rigs roll cage) then Hummer will certainly write off any coverage for swaping out their parts.
Speaking of that sort of thing, I got a call back from Hummer last night and they said: "It is Hummer's policy to NOT warrentee ANY damage from off road driving, even if it is an H2 sanctioned event. Any damage is concidered road hazard". http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif Hmmm. I wish there had been a sign on the H2 warning buyers that if the H2 is ever taken off road they will not stand behind their product.
The easy answer here is that it's all my fault because of the 4" lift and 37" tires. The H2 has no problems. It's just me.

[Dan]

Sounds like the H2 is not for you. No big deal, just sell it and get something that IS for you.

[Dan]

Sounds like the H2 is not for you. No big deal, just sell it and get something that IS for you.

[Detonate]

If your front end is bouncing, you are doing something wrong.

Try airing down more and using slow steady pressure on the gas pedal, and if you feel it getting bouncing, just back off.

[Detonate]

If your front end is bouncing, you are doing something wrong.

Try airing down more and using slow steady pressure on the gas pedal, and if you feel it getting bouncing, just back off.

[Detonate]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jnsfox:
I've seen H2's with 37's bounce with no problem <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>It might have just been no apparent problem. I didn't realize I had bent my tie rods till weeks later, because the bend was so slight. However the Pitman arm issues are normally pretty apparent rather quickly.

Anytime your front end bounces your wheels pick up speed, and upon touch down all of that torque is transfered somewhere. Whether it be through your tie rods, pitman arms, front diff... Something always has to give.

[Detonate]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jnsfox:
I've seen H2's with 37's bounce with no problem <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>It might have just been no apparent problem. I didn't realize I had bent my tie rods till weeks later, because the bend was so slight. However the Pitman arm issues are normally pretty apparent rather quickly.

Anytime your front end bounces your wheels pick up speed, and upon touch down all of that torque is transfered somewhere. Whether it be through your tie rods, pitman arms, front diff... Something always has to give.

[SunsetShannon]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> It is Hummer's policy to NOT warrentee ANY damage from off road driving, even if it is an H2 sanctioned event. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
This is not entirely true... at all National Hummer Club events there is a parts trailer dedicated to the H2s. Mechanics are on hand to work on repairing damage incurred while on the trails! The cover us at the Hummer Club events the same way they've always covered the H1s http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Hummer Club Events Link (http://www.thehummerclubinc.com/events/upcoming.htm)

[SunsetShannon]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> It is Hummer's policy to NOT warrentee ANY damage from off road driving, even if it is an H2 sanctioned event. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
This is not entirely true... at all National Hummer Club events there is a parts trailer dedicated to the H2s. Mechanics are on hand to work on repairing damage incurred while on the trails! The cover us at the Hummer Club events the same way they've always covered the H1s http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Hummer Club Events Link (http://www.thehummerclubinc.com/events/upcoming.htm)

[Detonate]

You still have to pay for the parts though.

[Detonate]

You still have to pay for the parts though.

[partsguy]

at hummer events if you do as the spotter
tells you and still break it will be covered.
but go off the deep end you'll pay.
at least at our dealership.

[partsguy]

at hummer events if you do as the spotter
tells you and still break it will be covered.
but go off the deep end you'll pay.
at least at our dealership.

[Bad Dawg]

With the Rancho lift the reason for wheels with different off set is to clear the repositioned spot where the tie rod connects at. It is moved from the bottom to the top to keep the angle of the tie rod the same as stock. This gets it closer to the edge of the wheel and would hit the stock wheel. No spacers are used. The stock wheel is 8.5" wide. Mine are 9" with a little more offset to clear the tie rod ends. I don't think it's the lift, but the larger tires and a little more offset could push the front end over the edge more easily than stock. We were told by the dealer spotters that we were driving correctly, nothing we did in our driving caused it (as soon as bounce started we stopped). One added thing...We have the winch mounted when this happens...extra front end weight?

As I watch the videos on here of the rigs that have bent their tie rods, it's is apparent that the bounce, spin and sudden traction is what's causing the tie rods to bend. Just happens way to easily in my mind.

[Bad Dawg]

With the Rancho lift the reason for wheels with different off set is to clear the repositioned spot where the tie rod connects at. It is moved from the bottom to the top to keep the angle of the tie rod the same as stock. This gets it closer to the edge of the wheel and would hit the stock wheel. No spacers are used. The stock wheel is 8.5" wide. Mine are 9" with a little more offset to clear the tie rod ends. I don't think it's the lift, but the larger tires and a little more offset could push the front end over the edge more easily than stock. We were told by the dealer spotters that we were driving correctly, nothing we did in our driving caused it (as soon as bounce started we stopped). One added thing...We have the winch mounted when this happens...extra front end weight?

As I watch the videos on here of the rigs that have bent their tie rods, it's is apparent that the bounce, spin and sudden traction is what's causing the tie rods to bend. Just happens way to easily in my mind.

[BKLYNH2]

I wouldn't put much stock in commentary from a spotter provided at a dealer event. A) they may know next to nothing, b) they may not know much about driving the H2 off road, or c) they may be a bit braindead from dealing with getting 20 vehicles or so(some with inexperienced drivers) through a trail. I went to a few of these dealer outings early on and have since learned that they really don't teach you good technique.

[BKLYNH2]

I wouldn't put much stock in commentary from a spotter provided at a dealer event. A) they may know next to nothing, b) they may not know much about driving the H2 off road, or c) they may be a bit braindead from dealing with getting 20 vehicles or so(some with inexperienced drivers) through a trail. I went to a few of these dealer outings early on and have since learned that they really don't teach you good technique.

[Bad Dawg]

BKLYNH2- Perhaps, however our spotter was the "Hummer Product Manager. With over 30 years of automobile experience and 9+ plus years with Edmark Superstore, Dick is one of the original 63 National Hummer Product Managers". Besides him there were over a dozen other H2's with drivers and passengers as well as perhaps 6 to 8 other Hummer dealers plus the service manager watching. The hill was a straight shot with loose dirt towards the top. No turns.

Just as a point of reference, Dick told me that the front end in the H1 has been redesigned around a half dozen times before getting to where they are now. Breaking lots of tie rods in the process. He also mentioned that the reason my 1 ton (with the same tie rods and lift as my H2) hasn't had any problems and the H2 has is perhaps because the H2 has been stretched out another 2" putting even more torque on the parts than the 1 ton. What this is sounding like to me is that the H2 is built to it's limits, not much margin at all like in an ordinary truck.

This comes as a huge disappointment for us. We figured the H2 was as advertised with overdesigned ruggedness. The take away for folks here is to make sure you understand the limits for how you plan on using your rig. We overestimated the H2 for our needs. Also, thanks to all who gave information for aftermarket parts to help the H2's problems. Obviously there is a market out there for beefing up the H2's tie rods and other front end parts. I wonder why??? http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

[Bad Dawg]

BKLYNH2- Perhaps, however our spotter was the "Hummer Product Manager. With over 30 years of automobile experience and 9+ plus years with Edmark Superstore, Dick is one of the original 63 National Hummer Product Managers". Besides him there were over a dozen other H2's with drivers and passengers as well as perhaps 6 to 8 other Hummer dealers plus the service manager watching. The hill was a straight shot with loose dirt towards the top. No turns.

Just as a point of reference, Dick told me that the front end in the H1 has been redesigned around a half dozen times before getting to where they are now. Breaking lots of tie rods in the process. He also mentioned that the reason my 1 ton (with the same tie rods and lift as my H2) hasn't had any problems and the H2 has is perhaps because the H2 has been stretched out another 2" putting even more torque on the parts than the 1 ton. What this is sounding like to me is that the H2 is built to it's limits, not much margin at all like in an ordinary truck.

This comes as a huge disappointment for us. We figured the H2 was as advertised with overdesigned ruggedness. The take away for folks here is to make sure you understand the limits for how you plan on using your rig. We overestimated the H2 for our needs. Also, thanks to all who gave information for aftermarket parts to help the H2's problems. Obviously there is a market out there for beefing up the H2's tie rods and other front end parts. I wonder why??? http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

[PARAGON]

No way it can be your fault. It's just a GM conspiracy to underbuild the front end so it will cost you more money. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

[PARAGON]

No way it can be your fault. It's just a GM conspiracy to underbuild the front end so it will cost you more money. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

[Bad Dawg]

Yes, it was my fault. I overestimated the H2.I believe that GM/Hummer will eventually redesign the front end as they have on the H1 through the years. Those of you who own H1's know how much beefier they are now.

It was fun while it lasted. Oh well.

[Bad Dawg]

Yes, it was my fault. I overestimated the H2.I believe that GM/Hummer will eventually redesign the front end as they have on the H1 through the years. Those of you who own H1's know how much beefier they are now.

It was fun while it lasted. Oh well.

[PARAGON]

Yep, H1s have beefier front ends now and at one of our happenings an '04 H1 bent a tie rod on an obstacle, no H2 tie rods were bent.

Are you trying to say that a GM 3500 truck has a shorter wheelbase than the H2? What exactly has been stretched out another 2 inches?

[PARAGON]

Yep, H1s have beefier front ends now and at one of our happenings an '04 H1 bent a tie rod on an obstacle, no H2 tie rods were bent.

Are you trying to say that a GM 3500 truck has a shorter wheelbase than the H2? What exactly has been stretched out another 2 inches?

[Bad Dawg]

The WIDTH of the front end. The H2's are wider than the Chevy trucks. This added width must cause things to move and act differently on them. Different stresses basically on the same parts? I have this curse that makes me try to understand why things happen. I'm just trying to understand what happened. I know what I did and did not do. I think I understand now what happened to my H2 and why.

[Bad Dawg]

The WIDTH of the front end. The H2's are wider than the Chevy trucks. This added width must cause things to move and act differently on them. Different stresses basically on the same parts? I have this curse that makes me try to understand why things happen. I'm just trying to understand what happened. I know what I did and did not do. I think I understand now what happened to my H2 and why.

[Longhorn]

Well I really hate to hear it, but I guess the time has come to unload a few rounds into Ole Yeller. Its been a good run though. You'd better part everything out to recover some of your sunk costs.

I'll start the bidding for all your accessories at one dollar. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Do I hear two?

[Longhorn]

Well I really hate to hear it, but I guess the time has come to unload a few rounds into Ole Yeller. Its been a good run though. You'd better part everything out to recover some of your sunk costs.

I'll start the bidding for all your accessories at one dollar. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Do I hear two?

[PARAGON]

The overall width might be 2" in difference but I doubt there is much width difference hub to hub. The biggest difference between 2500 and 3500 4X4s and the H2 is that the H2 has the TC. Some people are getting their front tires up in the air spinning with alot of velocity and "bounce" back down staying on the throttle. The TC is going to kick torque back and forth. An H2 is made to go slow and creep its way along not blast through an obstacle. This one reason why BTMing with the H2 can be a helpful maneuver.

[PARAGON]

The overall width might be 2" in difference but I doubt there is much width difference hub to hub. The biggest difference between 2500 and 3500 4X4s and the H2 is that the H2 has the TC. Some people are getting their front tires up in the air spinning with alot of velocity and "bounce" back down staying on the throttle. The TC is going to kick torque back and forth. An H2 is made to go slow and creep its way along not blast through an obstacle. This one reason why BTMing with the H2 can be a helpful maneuver.

[Bad Dawg]

Well, like I already said, we did not stay on the throttle and we were not blasting through the obstacle. We were climbing up a hill at the same speed four other H2's had just done. Very good advice though for those who haven't wheeled before. I know you guys think the H2 is without any problems and anything that happens has GOT to be the drivers fault (Gee, sounds like the typical Hummer rep response). I am honestly not here to bad mouth the H2. We REALLY liked it. But after three straight outings with breakage we figured we would cut our losses. I shared our experiance to get a conversation going about a known problem and for folks to share solutions they have found, and I thank those who contributed.

The dealer offerd us $44K and we keep the rack, lights, ladder and winch. Happy trails, folks.

[Bad Dawg]

Well, like I already said, we did not stay on the throttle and we were not blasting through the obstacle. We were climbing up a hill at the same speed four other H2's had just done. Very good advice though for those who haven't wheeled before. I know you guys think the H2 is without any problems and anything that happens has GOT to be the drivers fault (Gee, sounds like the typical Hummer rep response). I am honestly not here to bad mouth the H2. We REALLY liked it. But after three straight outings with breakage we figured we would cut our losses. I shared our experiance to get a conversation going about a known problem and for folks to share solutions they have found, and I thank those who contributed.

The dealer offerd us $44K and we keep the rack, lights, ladder and winch. Happy trails, folks.

[BKLYNH2]

Ok- So perhaps my previous post answers a) and b) don't apply, but not neccessarily. A product manager may just be a guy that's good at moving cars off the lot. I'm sure there are a few engineers that designed the H2 that couldn't hold a candle to some of the forum members here, out on a trail. Perhaps the guy was just trying to massage your ego. Did you get your upgrades through him? If you don't want to accept any responsibility for your driving technique then maybe look at the fact that you modified the stock vehicle, and perhaps did not complete the job. Maybe beefing up the tie rods as well as some other components becomes a neccessary evil after lifting the vehicle and increasing tire size, given your style of driving. The guys making lifts don't know if your cruising the mall or running Baja, so why would they tell you that other modifications may be neccessary. I assume that Rod Hall isn't racing H2's with all stock parts either. I'm all for people modifying their H2, but once you start that process you also must accept responsibility for the results. I believe the H2 meets or exceeds the goals of it's design. Comparing the H1's progression and redesign to the H2 isn't really applicable either as the H1 is designed and held to a much different criteria than the H2.
There are far too many great H2 offroad stories and pics on this site alone to give your viewpoint any merit. Sounds more like sour grapes. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

[BKLYNH2]

Ok- So perhaps my previous post answers a) and b) don't apply, but not neccessarily. A product manager may just be a guy that's good at moving cars off the lot. I'm sure there are a few engineers that designed the H2 that couldn't hold a candle to some of the forum members here, out on a trail. Perhaps the guy was just trying to massage your ego. Did you get your upgrades through him? If you don't want to accept any responsibility for your driving technique then maybe look at the fact that you modified the stock vehicle, and perhaps did not complete the job. Maybe beefing up the tie rods as well as some other components becomes a neccessary evil after lifting the vehicle and increasing tire size, given your style of driving. The guys making lifts don't know if your cruising the mall or running Baja, so why would they tell you that other modifications may be neccessary. I assume that Rod Hall isn't racing H2's with all stock parts either. I'm all for people modifying their H2, but once you start that process you also must accept responsibility for the results. I believe the H2 meets or exceeds the goals of it's design. Comparing the H1's progression and redesign to the H2 isn't really applicable either as the H1 is designed and held to a much different criteria than the H2.
There are far too many great H2 offroad stories and pics on this site alone to give your viewpoint any merit. Sounds more like sour grapes. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

[HummerLV]

bad dawg,
since you have to let it go, i don't want you to be upset every time you go into the garage and stub your toe on the rack, ladder and winch, so how much are you willing to sell them for so you have peace of mind??? http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[HummerLV]

bad dawg,
since you have to let it go, i don't want you to be upset every time you go into the garage and stub your toe on the rack, ladder and winch, so how much are you willing to sell them for so you have peace of mind??? http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[BKLYNH2]

He he http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[BKLYNH2]

He he http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[PARAGON]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bad Dawg:
I know you guys think the H2 is without any problems and anything that happens has GOT to be the drivers fault (Gee, sounds like the typical Hummer rep response). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>There is a difference between "having problems" and there being a design flaw, at which you are trying to say. The tie rod is obviously a weak link, but it is a weak link on many vehicles. Personally I would rather be replacing $50 tie rods than replacing a front differential or something. The tie rod bending might be an indicator of something wrong, either in setup or driving and is bending for a reason. It did not bend on the other H2s, as you mentioned, going over the same obstacle, so the only logical reasoning is either your setup caused it or your driving did. Why is that so hard to grasp from our perspective?

As someone has stated on the board before, the tie rod can be considered something like a "fuse" for the front end, bending or breaking before major damage occurs. By the way, many, if not most, off-roaders (before there were H2s or H1s) carried extra tie rods. It is probably the most common breakage on the trail.

[PARAGON]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bad Dawg:
I know you guys think the H2 is without any problems and anything that happens has GOT to be the drivers fault (Gee, sounds like the typical Hummer rep response). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>There is a difference between "having problems" and there being a design flaw, at which you are trying to say. The tie rod is obviously a weak link, but it is a weak link on many vehicles. Personally I would rather be replacing $50 tie rods than replacing a front differential or something. The tie rod bending might be an indicator of something wrong, either in setup or driving and is bending for a reason. It did not bend on the other H2s, as you mentioned, going over the same obstacle, so the only logical reasoning is either your setup caused it or your driving did. Why is that so hard to grasp from our perspective?

As someone has stated on the board before, the tie rod can be considered something like a "fuse" for the front end, bending or breaking before major damage occurs. By the way, many, if not most, off-roaders (before there were H2s or H1s) carried extra tie rods. It is probably the most common breakage on the trail.

[FrgMstr]

I think something VERY important was hit on here but is not being given much merit and that is BTM. I got into several situations in the last two weeks where I have seen other H2s break things. We however did not and I make sure to keep one foot on the break at all times to "stop" any wheel spin when tires come off the ground or lose traction.

If you are not doing this, it is very likely that your front end problems are DRIVER ERROR. I don't see any trucks out there that are going to take the abuse of having huge and heavy 35 or 37 inch tires and wheels slammed back into the ground while rotating fast. You might also have to take into account the 7000 pounds sitting on those tires as well. That energy HAS to be absorbed by something and if the spinning tire is forced into the ground to where it gets traction enough to stop it from spnning that energy is going right into the front end.

Front Locker is next on my list of modifications.

Anyway, that is just my opinion and I am not trying to force it on anyone, but years of 4x4 experience, do not equate to years of H2 driving experience. It is quite a different vehicle.

[FrgMstr]

I think something VERY important was hit on here but is not being given much merit and that is BTM. I got into several situations in the last two weeks where I have seen other H2s break things. We however did not and I make sure to keep one foot on the break at all times to "stop" any wheel spin when tires come off the ground or lose traction.

If you are not doing this, it is very likely that your front end problems are DRIVER ERROR. I don't see any trucks out there that are going to take the abuse of having huge and heavy 35 or 37 inch tires and wheels slammed back into the ground while rotating fast. You might also have to take into account the 7000 pounds sitting on those tires as well. That energy HAS to be absorbed by something and if the spinning tire is forced into the ground to where it gets traction enough to stop it from spnning that energy is going right into the front end.

Front Locker is next on my list of modifications.

Anyway, that is just my opinion and I am not trying to force it on anyone, but years of 4x4 experience, do not equate to years of H2 driving experience. It is quite a different vehicle.

[DURAMAX TIM]

Bad Dog I'm over at the place quite often.
The person making the SS sleeves is over there too.
Seems the tierods won't stand up to 500 or 600hp Dmax 4wd launches on asphalt.
Hate to see u get rid of the H2.
U got a PM and pic.

[DURAMAX TIM]

Bad Dog I'm over at the place quite often.
The person making the SS sleeves is over there too.
Seems the tierods won't stand up to 500 or 600hp Dmax 4wd launches on asphalt.
Hate to see u get rid of the H2.
U got a PM and pic.

[Bad Dawg]

Mr Paragon, one more time....I have already said it was my fault. I overestimated the capabilities of the H2 for my needs. Why is that so hard for you to hear (read)? Could it have been my driving or my wife's? Maybe but if we were going any slower we would have been stopped. That leaves two other explainations. One is that the mild lift, larger more aggressive tires, slightly wider wheels with slightly more offset and a winch on the front all contributed to pushing the H2's tie rod capabilities beyond it's threshhold of strength. The second could simply be that the tie rods (and perhaps the whole front end) need to be beefier. Actually, there could be a third reason, that being a combination of the first two. I believe it's behind door number three.

FRGMSTR - You are so right. I have been wheeling since I came home from Nam in '72 and the H2 is a whole different beast.

DURAMAXTIM - I forgot how to get to the PM ( http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif). Uh, Are you saying you have some experiance with launching a 500 to 600hp Dmax? http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gifWow. I'm impressed. Mine is only 400hp. Thanks for the info. I may look into them for my Dmax. The H2 goes to the dealer as soon as I take off the rack and ladder. Dispite what folks might think, we REALLY liked ours and we wish we could feel confident it would have held up without spending another thousand dollars. Besides, I heard yesterday that regular gas is expected to hit $3 a gallon by July. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Bad Dawg]

Mr Paragon, one more time....I have already said it was my fault. I overestimated the capabilities of the H2 for my needs. Why is that so hard for you to hear (read)? Could it have been my driving or my wife's? Maybe but if we were going any slower we would have been stopped. That leaves two other explainations. One is that the mild lift, larger more aggressive tires, slightly wider wheels with slightly more offset and a winch on the front all contributed to pushing the H2's tie rod capabilities beyond it's threshhold of strength. The second could simply be that the tie rods (and perhaps the whole front end) need to be beefier. Actually, there could be a third reason, that being a combination of the first two. I believe it's behind door number three.

FRGMSTR - You are so right. I have been wheeling since I came home from Nam in '72 and the H2 is a whole different beast.

DURAMAXTIM - I forgot how to get to the PM ( http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif). Uh, Are you saying you have some experiance with launching a 500 to 600hp Dmax? http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gifWow. I'm impressed. Mine is only 400hp. Thanks for the info. I may look into them for my Dmax. The H2 goes to the dealer as soon as I take off the rack and ladder. Dispite what folks might think, we REALLY liked ours and we wish we could feel confident it would have held up without spending another thousand dollars. Besides, I heard yesterday that regular gas is expected to hit $3 a gallon by July. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[PARAGON]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bad Dawg:
Mr Paragon, one more time....I have already said it was my fault. I overestimated the capabilities of the H2 for my needs. Why is that so hard for you to hear (read)? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Ok, Mr. Bill Clinton double-speak. It is very clear what you are saying, that's why you are getting a response.

If you "were going any slower you would have been stopped" then why did your "front end start bouncing", were you jumping up and down on it or something. Only speed, either in wheel spin or vehicle speed is going to cause the front end to start bouncing.

You didn't overestimate the capabilities of the H2, as stated here before, compare what you were doing to the pics and videos from PhilD, FRGMSTR, JNSFOX, ALEC W, Detonate, DRTYFN, etc. You overestimated YOUR common sense and insulting everyone's intelligence by claiming otherwise.

[PARAGON]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bad Dawg:
Mr Paragon, one more time....I have already said it was my fault. I overestimated the capabilities of the H2 for my needs. Why is that so hard for you to hear (read)? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Ok, Mr. Bill Clinton double-speak. It is very clear what you are saying, that's why you are getting a response.

If you "were going any slower you would have been stopped" then why did your "front end start bouncing", were you jumping up and down on it or something. Only speed, either in wheel spin or vehicle speed is going to cause the front end to start bouncing.

You didn't overestimate the capabilities of the H2, as stated here before, compare what you were doing to the pics and videos from PhilD, FRGMSTR, JNSFOX, ALEC W, Detonate, DRTYFN, etc. You overestimated YOUR common sense and insulting everyone's intelligence by claiming otherwise.

[Bad Dawg]

Well, I knew you would get down to this level sooner or later. You usually do. I have been talking about myself, my rig and the problems I have had with it. You, sir, always seem to start attacking people on a personal level as soon as you see the opportunity. You seem to take any critique of the H2 as a personal attack. Don't you get tired of taking almost every thread down to this level where the topic gets lost in your ranting? Get a life. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

For all of those who are reading this to try to find some useful information I appologize for letting the door open for Paragon to trash yet another thread.

[Bad Dawg]

Well, I knew you would get down to this level sooner or later. You usually do. I have been talking about myself, my rig and the problems I have had with it. You, sir, always seem to start attacking people on a personal level as soon as you see the opportunity. You seem to take any critique of the H2 as a personal attack. Don't you get tired of taking almost every thread down to this level where the topic gets lost in your ranting? Get a life. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

For all of those who are reading this to try to find some useful information I appologize for letting the door open for Paragon to trash yet another thread.

[PARAGON]

Right.... attacking..... Right...... How about pointing out the obvious, that would be more accurate. Please, don't flatter yourself.

You are on a public forum that consists mainly of H2 owners and you expect to get away with the comments you have made without any contestation. The truth can be hard to swallow some times can't it? You can't reconcile your many comments on this so you view my comments as "attacking" or "ranting." I think it's only fair that a logical and opposite opinion to yours be offered since your facts seem to be all over the place.

It's is awfully infantile to suggest that by my providing a different opinion than yours, you see it as "trashing yet another thread."

[PARAGON]

Right.... attacking..... Right...... How about pointing out the obvious, that would be more accurate. Please, don't flatter yourself.

You are on a public forum that consists mainly of H2 owners and you expect to get away with the comments you have made without any contestation. The truth can be hard to swallow some times can't it? You can't reconcile your many comments on this so you view my comments as "attacking" or "ranting." I think it's only fair that a logical and opposite opinion to yours be offered since your facts seem to be all over the place.

It's is awfully infantile to suggest that by my providing a different opinion than yours, you see it as "trashing yet another thread."

[Bad Dawg]

Duramaxtim- Thank you for the pictures. I am seriously thinking of using the sleeves on the Duramax. And the price is great, not over priced like most things aimed at the H2 market.

[Bad Dawg]

Duramaxtim- Thank you for the pictures. I am seriously thinking of using the sleeves on the Duramax. And the price is great, not over priced like most things aimed at the H2 market.

[BKLYNH2]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bad Dawg:

My question is that we are close to getting rid of the H2 if we can't feel like we can go out and do some mild playing without feeling safe in doing so. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> However, we may very likely trade back in our H2 afterall. We will be losing money but we feel that we should not be having to replace parts like the tie rods to bring up the quality of a rig like this. The tie rods are an obvious weak point and dispite the fact we have a mild lift we should not be having to improve the parts. We have been building rigs for over 20 years and this is the first time this has happened. Too bad, we really like the H2 otherwise, but we bought it to use it as advertised, not to commute in. We don't feel safe going out on even a mild trail without something else breaking. Good luck to you all who use your rigs.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> We were really hoping we could make it on just one outing without busting something else. I know this forum will blast us for saying all this, and believe me I hate coming to this conclusion, but I don't feel the H2 is what it is advertised to be. It might be fine for those who like fixing broken parts all the time or for those of you who never see the dirt, but I need something I can depend on. Damn, I hate getting rid of it, but we want to USE it.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
So you don't understand how these comments might be inflamatory on this site. Secondly many here may feel that you are passing out misinformation. Those that believe that their H2 is rugged and capable and that someone who may be considering getting an H2 deserves to here both sides of the story. You are entitled to express your viewpoint here just don't expect it to be accepted as gospel. If I wanted to add a few more quotes from you in this thread, I could very well make a strong case for the frequent damage being completely due to your driving technique( with respect to H2)or not willing to make a thorough upgrade to your truck. By the way why was it fine to spend the cash on a lift, larger tires, and increase the engine power, but not beef up the steering components? By placing yourself beyond reproach you attacked everyone else here who is passionate about their H2 and have had many "safe" off road trips.

[BKLYNH2]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bad Dawg:

My question is that we are close to getting rid of the H2 if we can't feel like we can go out and do some mild playing without feeling safe in doing so. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> However, we may very likely trade back in our H2 afterall. We will be losing money but we feel that we should not be having to replace parts like the tie rods to bring up the quality of a rig like this. The tie rods are an obvious weak point and dispite the fact we have a mild lift we should not be having to improve the parts. We have been building rigs for over 20 years and this is the first time this has happened. Too bad, we really like the H2 otherwise, but we bought it to use it as advertised, not to commute in. We don't feel safe going out on even a mild trail without something else breaking. Good luck to you all who use your rigs.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> We were really hoping we could make it on just one outing without busting something else. I know this forum will blast us for saying all this, and believe me I hate coming to this conclusion, but I don't feel the H2 is what it is advertised to be. It might be fine for those who like fixing broken parts all the time or for those of you who never see the dirt, but I need something I can depend on. Damn, I hate getting rid of it, but we want to USE it.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
So you don't understand how these comments might be inflamatory on this site. Secondly many here may feel that you are passing out misinformation. Those that believe that their H2 is rugged and capable and that someone who may be considering getting an H2 deserves to here both sides of the story. You are entitled to express your viewpoint here just don't expect it to be accepted as gospel. If I wanted to add a few more quotes from you in this thread, I could very well make a strong case for the frequent damage being completely due to your driving technique( with respect to H2)or not willing to make a thorough upgrade to your truck. By the way why was it fine to spend the cash on a lift, larger tires, and increase the engine power, but not beef up the steering components? By placing yourself beyond reproach you attacked everyone else here who is passionate about their H2 and have had many "safe" off road trips.

[H2Finally]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BKLYNH2:
By the way why was it fine to spend the cash on a lift, larger tires, and increase the engine power, but not beef up the steering components? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Bad Dawg, that's a darn good question. By all means get rid of something you no longer enjoy. I'm sure you have valid reasons -- but bad tie-rod ain't it.

[H2Finally]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BKLYNH2:
By the way why was it fine to spend the cash on a lift, larger tires, and increase the engine power, but not beef up the steering components? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Bad Dawg, that's a darn good question. By all means get rid of something you no longer enjoy. I'm sure you have valid reasons -- but bad tie-rod ain't it.

[Bad Dawg]

My humble apologies for trying to explain what happened and to answer questions (such as: Q. We must have been "blasting" up the hill. A. No, we were going slow") My intent wasn't to get you guys excited but to talk about a problem that more people than I have had and to figure out how to fix it. I have said that my experiance was my fault and that it was not just one thing but many that contributed to it. I also wanted to warn folks that if they modify their H2's then be prepared for things like what happened to me. I did say that it could have been our driving that caused it.
Quote: "So you don't understand how these comments might be inflamatory on this site."

From my earlier post:
"I know this forum will blast us for saying all this...". I know this from observing on here that some folks are hypersensitive to the notion that the H2 could be improved.

I don't have a problem with folks discussing what did or could have happened and trying to solve the problem. But turning it personal solves nothing. If you guys want to continue to flame on and believe that there isn't something going on with the front ends and that there aren't people working on fixes (see all the tie rod fixes shown on here and the tie rod "shield" on the H3T as examples of improvements) then have at it.

I still believe that the H2 is an awesome rig. I was not trying to chase anyone away from buying an H2. Just understand it's limitations both in stock form and modified.

[Bad Dawg]

My humble apologies for trying to explain what happened and to answer questions (such as: Q. We must have been "blasting" up the hill. A. No, we were going slow") My intent wasn't to get you guys excited but to talk about a problem that more people than I have had and to figure out how to fix it. I have said that my experiance was my fault and that it was not just one thing but many that contributed to it. I also wanted to warn folks that if they modify their H2's then be prepared for things like what happened to me. I did say that it could have been our driving that caused it.
Quote: "So you don't understand how these comments might be inflamatory on this site."

From my earlier post:
"I know this forum will blast us for saying all this...". I know this from observing on here that some folks are hypersensitive to the notion that the H2 could be improved.

I don't have a problem with folks discussing what did or could have happened and trying to solve the problem. But turning it personal solves nothing. If you guys want to continue to flame on and believe that there isn't something going on with the front ends and that there aren't people working on fixes (see all the tie rod fixes shown on here and the tie rod "shield" on the H3T as examples of improvements) then have at it.

I still believe that the H2 is an awesome rig. I was not trying to chase anyone away from buying an H2. Just understand it's limitations both in stock form and modified.

[Bad Dawg]

BKLYNH2 and H2Finally..To answer your question of "why add a lift, larger tires and maybe 30 more horse and not beef up the steering?" Because I have made the same mods on many other rigs in the past and haven't had to replace the steering componets. On those rigs and the H2 we only used them for mild trail riding and I did not expect the H2 to not be as strong as they were/are ('72 1/2 ton Chevy, '76 1/2 ton chevy, '76 Land Cruiser, '97 GMC 3/4 ton, 2001 1 ton Chevy). I have completely changed out the steering on our race rig because I knew how it was going to be used and what the stock parts could handle. You are right, the tie rod by itself isn't it. Some have pointed out that just changing out the tie rod might just push the problem to another part. By comparison to my other rigs the H2 was a mild build, so I did not expect what happened. For $60K I expected the H2 to handle what I did. I do not want to take anymore time and money to bring it up to my expectations.

I may be young at heart but I'm an old fart with just a few years experiance http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gifI do know how to drive off road as does my wife. We save the bashing for the race rig.

You guys and gals have fun and enjoy your H2's. We're going racing....... http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Bad Dawg]

BKLYNH2 and H2Finally..To answer your question of "why add a lift, larger tires and maybe 30 more horse and not beef up the steering?" Because I have made the same mods on many other rigs in the past and haven't had to replace the steering componets. On those rigs and the H2 we only used them for mild trail riding and I did not expect the H2 to not be as strong as they were/are ('72 1/2 ton Chevy, '76 1/2 ton chevy, '76 Land Cruiser, '97 GMC 3/4 ton, 2001 1 ton Chevy). I have completely changed out the steering on our race rig because I knew how it was going to be used and what the stock parts could handle. You are right, the tie rod by itself isn't it. Some have pointed out that just changing out the tie rod might just push the problem to another part. By comparison to my other rigs the H2 was a mild build, so I did not expect what happened. For $60K I expected the H2 to handle what I did. I do not want to take anymore time and money to bring it up to my expectations.

I may be young at heart but I'm an old fart with just a few years experiance http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gifI do know how to drive off road as does my wife. We save the bashing for the race rig.

You guys and gals have fun and enjoy your H2's. We're going racing....... http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[FrgMstr]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bad Dawg:
You guys and gals have fun and enjoy your H2's. We're going racing....... http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I enjoy my all the time and push it way beyond it published specifications without issue. I just don't allow my front end to START bouncing.

[FrgMstr]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bad Dawg:
You guys and gals have fun and enjoy your H2's. We're going racing....... http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I enjoy my all the time and push it way beyond it published specifications without issue. I just don't allow my front end to START bouncing.

[HummerLV]

rubberduck tierod
pic1

[HummerLV]

rubberduck tierod
pic1

[HummerLV]

pic2

[HummerLV]

pic2

[Detonate]

I can't help but think that he is going to charge a fortune for those once he releases them.

I may have to just keep a few stock spare handy instead.

[Detonate]

I can't help but think that he is going to charge a fortune for those once he releases them.

I may have to just keep a few stock spare handy instead.

[HummerLV]

The H2 Tie Rods have finished testing and I am taking orders for them now. The pricing will be finalized this week and I will email you the price. Right now I think they will be $599.00 per set.





Travis DePew

aka. RubberDuck

www.RubberDuck4x4.com (http://www.RubberDuck4x4.com)

Viva La E.C.H.O.

[HummerLV]

The H2 Tie Rods have finished testing and I am taking orders for them now. The pricing will be finalized this week and I will email you the price. Right now I think they will be $599.00 per set.





Travis DePew

aka. RubberDuck

www.RubberDuck4x4.com (http://www.RubberDuck4x4.com)

Viva La E.C.H.O.

[FrgMstr]

Group buy possibilities? I am interested, but $600 seems a bit steep at first glance. Also, I know nothing about suspension components and this may be in line with exactly what it should be. I would love to hear what our other H2 brothers have to say.

Also, do you know how your parts will impact the warranties we have? I have a feeling I might be better off carrying a set of spares. (Anyone got part numbers for the stock replacements?)

Please don't think I am trying to rain on your parade. I think these are solid issues that will concern most of the folks here. That said, thanks for catering to this market as it seemingly needs attention.

[FrgMstr]

Group buy possibilities? I am interested, but $600 seems a bit steep at first glance. Also, I know nothing about suspension components and this may be in line with exactly what it should be. I would love to hear what our other H2 brothers have to say.

Also, do you know how your parts will impact the warranties we have? I have a feeling I might be better off carrying a set of spares. (Anyone got part numbers for the stock replacements?)

Please don't think I am trying to rain on your parade. I think these are solid issues that will concern most of the folks here. That said, thanks for catering to this market as it seemingly needs attention.

[Detonate]

My first thought when I saw them was "These are too good."

Much much beefier than stock, which of course equates to more expensive. They may very well be priced correctly for the materials and cost to make, but is it necessary?

[Detonate]

My first thought when I saw them was "These are too good."

Much much beefier than stock, which of course equates to more expensive. They may very well be priced correctly for the materials and cost to make, but is it necessary?

[FrgMstr]

I think the simple question is, "What breaks when the tie rod does not, and is it covered under warranty?"

[FrgMstr]

I think the simple question is, "What breaks when the tie rod does not, and is it covered under warranty?"

[partsguy]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FrgMstr:
Group buy possibilities? I am interested, but $600 seems a bit steep at first glance. Also, I know nothing about suspension components and this may be in line with exactly what it should be. I would love to hear what our other H2 brothers have to say.

Also, do you know how your parts will impact the warranties we have? I have a feeling I might be better off carrying a set of spares. (Anyone got part numbers for the stock replacements?)Inner 26059210 $23.07
OUter 12471649 $46.19

Please don't think I am trying to rain on your parade. I think these are solid issues that will concern most of the folks here. That said, thanks for catering to this market as it seemingly needs attention. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[partsguy]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FrgMstr:
Group buy possibilities? I am interested, but $600 seems a bit steep at first glance. Also, I know nothing about suspension components and this may be in line with exactly what it should be. I would love to hear what our other H2 brothers have to say.

Also, do you know how your parts will impact the warranties we have? I have a feeling I might be better off carrying a set of spares. (Anyone got part numbers for the stock replacements?)Inner 26059210 $23.07
OUter 12471649 $46.19

Please don't think I am trying to rain on your parade. I think these are solid issues that will concern most of the folks here. That said, thanks for catering to this market as it seemingly needs attention. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[H2 Bill]

Those look really great! I want a pair. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[H2 Bill]

Those look really great! I want a pair. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[partsguy]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FrgMstr:
I think the simple question is, "What breaks when the tie rod does not, and is it covered under warranty?" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>front axle,not covered.

[partsguy]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FrgMstr:
I think the simple question is, "What breaks when the tie rod does not, and is it covered under warranty?" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>front axle,not covered.

[Hummie2]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I am interested, but $600 seems a bit steep at first glance. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I thought the same thing until I talked to RubberDuck on the phone. It seems like there is quite a bit of machine work involved in making the new tierods. The outer ends don't have the same taper as any other ends readily available and have to be recut besides making the pieces that screw into the centerlink. The down side of doing that is if you ever do damage or wear out an outer end you won't easily find a replacement end.

Stock inner and outer ends are listed in the NAPA Auto Parts system. The guy at the parts counter said they list a little over $100 per side and show to be the same part no. as Chev. K3500.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Also, do you know how your parts will impact the warranties we have? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am guessing, but warranty claims would probably be denied on any other steering damage after installing heavier tierods.

BTW,RD also said they plan on making replacement pitman & idler arms also.

$$$$$, How fast do you want to go? $$$$$

Don

[Hummie2]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I am interested, but $600 seems a bit steep at first glance. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I thought the same thing until I talked to RubberDuck on the phone. It seems like there is quite a bit of machine work involved in making the new tierods. The outer ends don't have the same taper as any other ends readily available and have to be recut besides making the pieces that screw into the centerlink. The down side of doing that is if you ever do damage or wear out an outer end you won't easily find a replacement end.

Stock inner and outer ends are listed in the NAPA Auto Parts system. The guy at the parts counter said they list a little over $100 per side and show to be the same part no. as Chev. K3500.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Also, do you know how your parts will impact the warranties we have? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am guessing, but warranty claims would probably be denied on any other steering damage after installing heavier tierods.

BTW,RD also said they plan on making replacement pitman & idler arms also.

$$$$$, How fast do you want to go? $$$$$

Don

[FrgMstr]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by partsguy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FrgMstr:
I think the simple question is, "What breaks when the tie rod does not, and is it covered under warranty?" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>front axle,not covered. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think is a bit more than a couple hundred bucks and not something that you can easily fix on a trail... http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

[FrgMstr]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by partsguy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FrgMstr:
I think the simple question is, "What breaks when the tie rod does not, and is it covered under warranty?" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>front axle,not covered. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think is a bit more than a couple hundred bucks and not something that you can easily fix on a trail... http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

[drmiles]

Ok I've bee following this thread. I want to replace or have extra tie rods with me when I'm on the trail.. Bad place for a flatbed.

However I'm confused. is it better to get Rubberduck (http://www.rubberduck4x4.com/)
or getFST (http://www.fly-n-hi.com/FST/steering.htm)
or whats this about sleeves to go over the tierod??? Maybe I need to pay better attention, but I'm not trading in my H2, have not had a major problem (except for tearing a front axle out of the hub which is another story).
Someone please help me decide the best way to go

Thanks

Jerry

[drmiles]

Ok I've bee following this thread. I want to replace or have extra tie rods with me when I'm on the trail.. Bad place for a flatbed.

However I'm confused. is it better to get Rubberduck (http://www.rubberduck4x4.com/)
or getFST (http://www.fly-n-hi.com/FST/steering.htm)
or whats this about sleeves to go over the tierod??? Maybe I need to pay better attention, but I'm not trading in my H2, have not had a major problem (except for tearing a front axle out of the hub which is another story).
Someone please help me decide the best way to go

Thanks

Jerry

[drmiles]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by drmiles:
Ok I've been following this thread. I want to replace or have extra tie rods with me when I'm on the trail.. Bad place for a flatbed.

However I'm confused. is it better to get http://www.rubberduck4x4.com/
or get http://www.fly-n-hi.com/FST/steering.htm
or whats this about sleeves to go over the tierod??? Maybe I need to pay better attention, but I'm not trading in my H2, have not had a major problem (except for tearing a front axle out of the hub which is another story).
Someone please help me decide the best way to go

Thanks

Jerry <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[drmiles]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by drmiles:
Ok I've been following this thread. I want to replace or have extra tie rods with me when I'm on the trail.. Bad place for a flatbed.

However I'm confused. is it better to get http://www.rubberduck4x4.com/
or get http://www.fly-n-hi.com/FST/steering.htm
or whats this about sleeves to go over the tierod??? Maybe I need to pay better attention, but I'm not trading in my H2, have not had a major problem (except for tearing a front axle out of the hub which is another story).
Someone please help me decide the best way to go

Thanks

Jerry <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[partsguy]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FrgMstr:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by partsguy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FrgMstr:
I think the simple question is, "What breaks when the tie rod does not, and is it covered under warranty?" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>front axle,not covered. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think is a bit more than a couple hundred bucks and not something that you can easily fix on a trail... http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>$100.00 to $1,360.00
you pick.

[partsguy]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FrgMstr:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by partsguy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FrgMstr:
I think the simple question is, "What breaks when the tie rod does not, and is it covered under warranty?" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>front axle,not covered. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think is a bit more than a couple hundred bucks and not something that you can easily fix on a trail... http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>$100.00 to $1,360.00
you pick.

[Detonate]

I don't think it's Tie Rod then Axle. That doesn't make sense.

The tie-rod is part of a steering component. Why would a lack of effort in the steering component cause an axle to snap?

[Detonate]

I don't think it's Tie Rod then Axle. That doesn't make sense.

The tie-rod is part of a steering component. Why would a lack of effort in the steering component cause an axle to snap?

[FrgMstr]

I don't think it is tie rod then axle either, but the point still remains, if something behind the tie rod breaks, it will likely be something much more expensive. I think I am just going to stick a set of replacement tie rods in the bottom of my recovery bag...

[FrgMstr]

I don't think it is tie rod then axle either, but the point still remains, if something behind the tie rod breaks, it will likely be something much more expensive. I think I am just going to stick a set of replacement tie rods in the bottom of my recovery bag...

[Detonate]

I don't think it would hurt to beef up the tie rods "some", just not too much. Especially when running 37's.

[Detonate]

I don't think it would hurt to beef up the tie rods "some", just not too much. Especially when running 37's.

[cinci]

Det,
You are right. The upstream components from the tie rod are the center link, unlikely to damage that, the idler pitman arms, the next biggest problem, and the steering gear, this could be a problem.

I just came back from the Hummer club event at Kinzalow where I tested Rubber Duck's new HD tie rods. They differ slightly from the pictures that were posted since those were of the first version and these are the second, since I broke the first ones. The part that needed reengineered was the piece that attaches to the center link. It turns out that the threaded part on the one pictured is a week point at the threads. Due to the smaller diameter needed to thread in and the threads were sharp cut this provided a point for a crack to start.

The new version is a two piece solution with a machined piece that slides about an 1.5 inches over the end of the center link with a bolt in the middle to hold it on. It is about 1 inch bigger in diameter than the center link and is threaded on the out side. This allows the second piece, which has the tapered hole for the tie rode to attach to, to thread over the out side. This allows for this piece to expand in size as it approaches the center link rather that be machine down is size where it attaches. This solved the original issue.

I have started another thread with lots of pictures of the trails and links to more Kinzalow thread (http://elcova.com/groupee/forums?a=tpc&s=2826088551&f=2606011751&m=367107136&r=392101236#392101236). There are also pictures of the damage to the under carriage of my truck after the second day while they were replacing the idler and pitman arms as well as the steering gear. Now, the idler and pitman were shot when we arrived and were not worn out due to the tie rods. But after three days of wheeling they needed to be changed.

I don’t think you will break the new tie rods; this is a good thing since they are not fun to change on the trail. However, they will allow you to put more pressure on the idler and pitman arms but they tend to wear out and I haven't seen them break on the trail. But a solution needs to be found.

[cinci]

Det,
You are right. The upstream components from the tie rod are the center link, unlikely to damage that, the idler pitman arms, the next biggest problem, and the steering gear, this could be a problem.

I just came back from the Hummer club event at Kinzalow where I tested Rubber Duck's new HD tie rods. They differ slightly from the pictures that were posted since those were of the first version and these are the second, since I broke the first ones. The part that needed reengineered was the piece that attaches to the center link. It turns out that the threaded part on the one pictured is a week point at the threads. Due to the smaller diameter needed to thread in and the threads were sharp cut this provided a point for a crack to start.

The new version is a two piece solution with a machined piece that slides about an 1.5 inches over the end of the center link with a bolt in the middle to hold it on. It is about 1 inch bigger in diameter than the center link and is threaded on the out side. This allows the second piece, which has the tapered hole for the tie rode to attach to, to thread over the out side. This allows for this piece to expand in size as it approaches the center link rather that be machine down is size where it attaches. This solved the original issue.

I have started another thread with lots of pictures of the trails and links to more Kinzalow thread (http://elcova.com/groupee/forums?a=tpc&s=2826088551&f=2606011751&m=367107136&r=392101236#392101236). There are also pictures of the damage to the under carriage of my truck after the second day while they were replacing the idler and pitman arms as well as the steering gear. Now, the idler and pitman were shot when we arrived and were not worn out due to the tie rods. But after three days of wheeling they needed to be changed.

I don’t think you will break the new tie rods; this is a good thing since they are not fun to change on the trail. However, they will allow you to put more pressure on the idler and pitman arms but they tend to wear out and I haven't seen them break on the trail. But a solution needs to be found.

[Bad Dawg]

ANother thought for you folks...I ran across some more Tie Rod Sleeves. Edelbrock, Competition Engineering and Hotchkiss (sp?) all make sleeves for racing applications for cars and some trucks. Couldn't find anything for the H2 but I would imagine they could be found or made VERY easily. They run anywhere from $36 to around $90 through Summit and Jegs. Seems that they are a common item used on many applications to increase the strength of the tie rods. I found a reference on another website for S10 Blazer ZR2's.

[Bad Dawg]

ANother thought for you folks...I ran across some more Tie Rod Sleeves. Edelbrock, Competition Engineering and Hotchkiss (sp?) all make sleeves for racing applications for cars and some trucks. Couldn't find anything for the H2 but I would imagine they could be found or made VERY easily. They run anywhere from $36 to around $90 through Summit and Jegs. Seems that they are a common item used on many applications to increase the strength of the tie rods. I found a reference on another website for S10 Blazer ZR2's.

[Bad Dawg]

Another pic...

[Bad Dawg]

Another pic...

[rickhz]

Not pretty at all:

http://www.fly-n-hi.com/FST/H2_Tierod/busted.jpg

How could they put that spindly crap under a truck with the Hummer moniker? The tie rods GM uses to control 35" tires on a Hummer are the same size as the tie rods Ford uses on their Explorers with 29" 235shttp://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif That either speaks very highly for the Ford Explorer or very poorly for the Hummer.

http://www.fly-n-hi.com/FST/H2_Tierod/pinky.jpg

Has anyone broke a tie rod on a New York City pot hole yet?

[rickhz]

Not pretty at all:

http://www.fly-n-hi.com/FST/H2_Tierod/busted.jpg

How could they put that spindly crap under a truck with the Hummer moniker? The tie rods GM uses to control 35" tires on a Hummer are the same size as the tie rods Ford uses on their Explorers with 29" 235shttp://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif That either speaks very highly for the Ford Explorer or very poorly for the Hummer.

http://www.fly-n-hi.com/FST/H2_Tierod/pinky.jpg

Has anyone broke a tie rod on a New York City pot hole yet?

[Dan]

Look, one of your wife's pubies made it into that bottom pic. Nasty...

[Dan]

Look, one of your wife's pubies made it into that bottom pic. Nasty...