Bio-Diesel H1

[dochummer]

Ok, so a nearby dealership just got a 97.5 slantback in from alaska. I've been thinking about the possibility of trading in the H2 for the H1. With the ramblings in my head, I've decided if I were to do that, I would like to run it on bio-diesel / B100. I've looked at SVO/WVO and stuff, but I don't feel like adding tanks/modifying the engine. Has anybody had experience with running a vehicle on B100?

I'm thinking I could hit up the local asian restaurants and mom/pop restaurants for the oil, and then purchase a mixer kit ($4k) to mix it up. The only concern would be storage (in the garage?) and cold weather operation. I know you can purchase additives for cold weather...but not sure on cost.

Any comments would be appreciated.... http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[dochummer]

Ok, so a nearby dealership just got a 97.5 slantback in from alaska. I've been thinking about the possibility of trading in the H2 for the H1. With the ramblings in my head, I've decided if I were to do that, I would like to run it on bio-diesel / B100. I've looked at SVO/WVO and stuff, but I don't feel like adding tanks/modifying the engine. Has anybody had experience with running a vehicle on B100?

I'm thinking I could hit up the local asian restaurants and mom/pop restaurants for the oil, and then purchase a mixer kit ($4k) to mix it up. The only concern would be storage (in the garage?) and cold weather operation. I know you can purchase additives for cold weather...but not sure on cost.

Any comments would be appreciated.... http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[VTSTOMPER]

People are running it here in Vermont. It cost more...but people tell me they cannot feel a difference between the two. Also the exhaust smells like french fries! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

If I bought it I would take the hub caps off (I don't think those are wheels) and then I would remove the sun visor, and mud guards! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[NoMoGMPG]

The Stanadyne injector pump and various neoprene hoses/orings cannot withstand the solvent nature of B100 for very long. You can run up to B20 with great results. It provides excellent lubricity for the pump and injectors, reduces emissions by up to 73% (no sulfur in veggie oil) and make for a much quieter startup and idle.

I have used B20 now for over 2 years and besides the first 1000 miles requiring 2 fuel filter changes (the solvent nature removes ALOT of varnish from the fuel tank and metal lines), I haven't had any issues even in -20 degree F weather.

[HUMMERDOGG]

All-

For general information on biodiesel go to:

http://www.nbb.org/

Biodiesel Basics:

http://www.nbb.org/resources/biodiesel_basics/default.shtm

Biodiesel Definitions:

http://www.nbb.org/resources/definitions/default.shtm

Fuel Fact Sheets:

http://www.nbb.org/resources/fuelfactsheets/default.shtm

Fuel Fact Sheets_Standards and Warranties:

http://www.nbb.org/resources/fuelfactsheets/standards_and_warranties.shtm

For information on where you can buy biodiesel:

http://www.nbb.org/buyingbiodiesel/distributors/

and

http://www.nbb.org/buyingbiodiesel/retailfuelingsites/

Hope this helps...

-Dogger

[ckhagman]

You have a PM

[pdxhummerguy]

Does anyone know a better injector pump to use that will stand up to using b100? Mine just went out and he dealership is quoting over 4K to replace it with labor. I dont want to put the same thing back in and just have it keep going out.

[ssgharkness020147]

Does anyone know a better injector pump to use that will stand up to using b100? Mine just went out and he dealership is quoting over 4K to replace it with labor. I dont want to put the same thing back in and just have it keep going out.

Get the truck the hell out of the dealer ASAP. I know the stealerships charge 4K for the pump, and that is downright insane. Send the truck to an authorized stanadyne shop. The pump will cost 1000-1200, and authorized stanadyne dealers should have a flat rate install of 500.00. Call stanadyne to verify that, thats how they did it a few years ago. Either way, its the same pump for a whole lot less coin.

What I would recommend doing is buying a pump with the "arctic it" installed in it. The arctic kit replaces the brass and plastic components in the pump with stainless steel and ceramic parts. The arctic pumps have been known to go for well over 250K without failure. If you have a hard time locating an arctic pump let me know, I can put you in touch with someone that should be able to provide you with one.

[pdxhummerguy]

I called a stanadyne authorized center here in town and was told that if you bring them thepump the charge to completely rebuild the thing is only $385.00. Quite a contrast to the $1500 for a new one that the dealer is talking about. How involved is the process of taking one of these off?

[ssgharkness020147]

I called a stanadyne authorized center here in town and was told that if you bring them thepump the charge to completely rebuild the thing is only $385.00. Quite a contrast to the $1500 for a new one that the dealer is talking about. How involved is the process of taking one of these off?

Its not that hard to take it off, but its time consuming.
You'll need to remove the following:
Doghouse and engine cover
Intake manifold (the upper part can suck)
Turbo
Thermostat housing (?)
I know that some people remove the AC compressor, but I'm not sure it is necessary.

I would just have the truck flatbedded over there and have them do the whole thing. The honest truth is that a diesel shop has pulled alot more 6.5 engines apart than your HUMMER tech. IMO that are more qualified to do the work then a dealership.

[hmcoleap]

You might want to call Stanadyne and talk to them about the pump; I never got any indication from them that the original pump should have any issues with B100 (and I never have had any issues with it) -- when I talked to them many years ago, they said they couldn't recommend concentrations of higher than b5; on the QT, I learned that was because they could lose their R&D money from the oil companies -- not because the OEM Stanadyne pump has issues with B100.

Does anyone know a better injector pump to use that will stand up to using b100? Mine just went out and he dealership is quoting over 4K to replace it with labor. I dont want to put the same thing back in and just have it keep going out.

[pdxhummerguy]

Amazing! I did a little research and here is what I have found. The dealreship quoted a $4600.00 total bill for an injector pump replacement including labor. I called a local shop and was quoted $2500.00. the other option is for basically $1000 labor I can have the other shop pull the old IP and then a diesel shop in town will reman in it a couple of days for about $385.00. Now the dearlership has told me that the heater core has gone out and it will be $1800.00 for a new one of those including install. Again checked with another source and looks like it's $700 for the labor and about $300 for the core. I am pretty much offended that the dealership would even think of charging this much. I mean I understand extreme mark-ups but am I the only one that feels this is borderline insulting?

[ssgharkness020147]

Around 1500.00 for an IP pump is reasonable, give or take a couple hundred.

As far the heater core, I've been there. I believe my local dealer does that job for around 2K, but I do not send my truck to them for any service work. I bought my new heater core for 330.00 and had it installed for 485.00, right around where you were quoted. Isn't it amazing how much money you save when its not done by the dealer.

[pdxhummerguy]

it is nuts for sure. I actually went out on a limb and called my service advisor at the dealership and just laid down the facts for them. I told them that I lied the work they had been doing but I just could not justify the higher prices that they had been charging me. I politely asked if they would like to match or beat the other quotes and retain me as a customer and low and behold the answer was yes, they would match the other quotes.

[ssgharkness020147]

Holy sh!t! I have never heard of a dealer be willing to match prices. Props to them.:beerchug:

I had a falling out with my service dept about four years ago. My first visit there I spent over 4K. OK, fine I knew it wasn't going to be cheap to keep. I continued to send the truck their way, spent more money. As time wore on I became less and less satisfied with the quality of their work, and even more frustrated at their lack of customer service.

The final straw for me was sending them the truck for a T-case recall; I had to fight with them tooth and nail to get them to perform the recall at no charge, and had to go as far as to call HUMMER corporate and force them to honor it. Upon picking the truck up after having the recall performed it was very obvious that they didn't exactly give it 100%. The T-case had been pried open with a screw driver, the exhaust shields were rattling like crazy, they tried to con my out of 400.00 for a new tire that they "couldn't balance", and the shifter button was broken.

I politely told the service writer that I was less than thrilled with the quality of the work my truck got when it was last in the shop, that I had spent a good chunk of change in there, and I wanted the issues I was having taken care of. I had them fix the exhaust, had another shop balance the tire, and told them to fix the shifter button. I was told that they would fix it.... For about a grand.

I informed the service writer that the button worked fine when the truck was dropped off, had never given me a problem, and that I expected it fixed free of charge. He told me no, I told him either fix it or I'm walking and I wont be back to your service department again. Four years later... I have yet to return.

[phazer42]

just FYI....

I have talked to one of the original Engineers on the Stanadyne Injection Pump for the 6.2 and 6.5L's and he stated that the IP wasn't originally designed for use in Bio, BUT, through testing has proven that it doesn't cause harm within the system.

There was recently (a few months anyhow) a post on the HML regarding a lubricity study posted on another forum (thedieselplace.com) showing that the Bio was the best solution to lubricate your fuel system componets - better then the Stanadyne additive.... 2% bio or greater is the best for lubricity.....

[pdxhummerguy]

So i am in need of a schematic of the H1. I am looking into not only having a larger tank fabricated for it and would like to see what I can do but also need to know how much clearance I have between the top of the tank and the underside of the vehicle. Let me know if anyone has or knows where to get these.

[phazer42]

what year truck do you have??

Really.... the best solution for a Hummer to make more fuel volume is the following....

with dual, stock, tanks.... get dual fender well tanks. So, you would have the RH fender tank feeding the main fuel tank, and the LH fender tank feeding the aux tank. I believe the fender tanks are like 17 gallons each which would give you 76 Gallons in capacity (unless you have an alpha) which should be plenty!!

Personally, I would place check valves on the inlets to the main and aux fuel tanks so when off-roading you can't get the fuel to "find" its way into one of your "new" tanks when you are on steep grades.....

this would also require you to have your exhuast dump out in front of the LH rear wheel similar to a Humvee....

[ssgharkness020147]

You could also do a two inch body lift, and probably put the Alpha tanks in. The reason I say probably is because I am not positive they will just fit.

[pdxhummerguy]

what year truck do you have??

Really.... the best solution for a Hummer to make more fuel volume is the following....

with dual, stock, tanks.... get dual fender well tanks. So, you would have the RH fender tank feeding the main fuel tank, and the LH fender tank feeding the aux tank. I believe the fender tanks are like 17 gallons each which would give you 76 Gallons in capacity (unless you have an alpha) which should be plenty!!

Personally, I would place check valves on the inlets to the main and aux fuel tanks so when off-roading you can't get the fuel to "find" its way into one of your "new" tanks when you are on steep grades.....

this would also require you to have your exhuast dump out in front of the LH rear wheel similar to a Humvee....

My truck is a 2002. I would like to not have to raise the truck and am hoping for the schematics as I would like to possibly have something custom built.

[phazer42]

there used to be a company that would make these saddle tanks, but I don't think they make them anymore.. Realistically they are really simple with minimal modifications... you would have to change your "fill" point from the RH side of your truck to the back of your truck, as the ones that I have seen wiith these saddle tanks had a filler cap just north and outboard of the tail light assembly near where the marker light is... if you get one custom made you would be set. Since your fill pipe for both the main and aux tanks already ride abve the frame rail, you will just need to change where it goes. You could likey get more fuel in the RH saddle tank then the LH as your feed pipe to the aux tank would need to be near the bumper (as thats where it is currently) whereas the main is in the front so you could likely get a good amount of volume in it....

The other thought would be to modify the bottom of your bed and create that as fuel storage.... you can figure ut volume fairly easily just from raw dimensions..... BUT.... please note.... for crash reasons... there is often a "vapor" zone in every fuel tank so that when the "incompressible" fluid is forced to go somewhere, it can, rather then leaving the tank assembly..... typically they see around 5-10% vapor space in a fuel tank assemly to be "safe"

[pdxhummerguy]

what year truck do you have??

Really.... the best solution for a Hummer to make more fuel volume is the following....

with dual, stock, tanks.... get dual fender well tanks. So, you would have the RH fender tank feeding the main fuel tank, and the LH fender tank feeding the aux tank. I believe the fender tanks are like 17 gallons each which would give you 76 Gallons in capacity (unless you have an alpha) which should be plenty!!

Personally, I would place check valves on the inlets to the main and aux fuel tanks so when off-roading you can't get the fuel to "find" its way into one of your "new" tanks when you are on steep grades.....

this would also require you to have your exhuast dump out in front of the LH rear wheel similar to a Humvee....

Where can I purchase these fender well tanks? I am ready to do the conversion on the H1 the right way. I have a 2002 Excursion with a 7.3 psd in it that I am having converted to veggie as well. After much research I have pretty much decided to use a company called Fossil Free fuels out of PA. Have had several conversations with these guy and they really seem to know their stuff and are thinking progressively ahead of the rest of the pack in my opinion. They are taking my excursion which has a 44 gallon main tank from the factory and converting this to a heated veg tank, adding an additional 30 gallon veg holding tank & then fabbing up an 18 gallon diesel tank for start up and purging at shutdown. They have a really nice looking interface taht I have yet to see anyone else in the veg community come close to. Here is a link to a video that shows a glance of the digital interface. It gives you fuel levels for all tanks, veg oil temp readings as well as a temp reading at the point of injection. Pretty trick set-up. http://youtube.com/watch?v=9sQwccnH3KM Does anyone have any experience or know anything about them? their website is a work in progress but it's www.fossilfreefuel.com .

[phazer42]

I don't know if they are made anymore.... you might wanna give Predator a call and see if they made them anymore or see if someone will fab some up for ya.... shouldn't be to bad of a job...

[pdxhummerguy]

I don't know if they are made anymore.... you might wanna give Predator a call and see if they made them anymore or see if someone will fab some up for ya.... shouldn't be to bad of a job...

I am a fearful of doing anything through predator based on my own experience and stories I have heard. I am just trying to get some direction as to possibly where to start looking for these or how exactly they mount and or how they function.

[phazer42]

well... in that case if you don't have a fabricator that you can trust... get ahold of Travis at Rubber Duck 4x4 as he does very good work.

Basically they would bolt in through your body, or depending on how you have it, you would have a bracket system that would hold it into place. There would then be a filler point that would be near the top of you fender for obvious reasons. The one truck that I saw with this had the filler between the tail light and the marker light. Looked actually pretty good, he just had a silver filler cap on it and it blended in very well....

There are some guys on the HML that could probably get you some pictures, and I sure Travis has worked with these in his Hummer past....

[pdxhummerguy]

http://www.humvee.net/pix/tank/amtank.html is this sort of what you all are talking about?

[ssgharkness020147]

http://www.humvee.net/pix/tank/amtank.html is this sort of what you all are talking about?

That would be the one Scott is talking about. American HUMMER is still in business, I'd give the a call. I've heard good stuff about them.

[pdxhummerguy]

Here is the email response i got from American. I am waiting to hear back.

We only have a couple of the left fender well fuel tanks left. The right fender tank was always a problem and with the new trucks it can't really be done since the auxillary tank filler neck, etc. is now in the way.

The left tank hold about 22 gallons & is rhino lined on the bottom surface. We use a fuel pump that pumps the fuel directly into the main tank with an on/off switch run to the dash. The tank fills from a fuel neck that comes out above the left rear tail light (means cutting a hole in you truck & you only get one chance that it's right). The tank fits in a "cradle" using a bracket on the back edge of the fender well and a bracket on the front edge of the fender well utilizing the rocker panel. Consequently our tank "floats" and is not secured to the underside of the fender well as off-roading would rip up the top of the fender well due to the HUMMER"s flex, especiall right there by the front of the rear fender well.

In the past, Terry has expressed that he really doesn't want to sell a "fender well fuel tank kit" outside our shop as no two HUMMERs are alike and installation is always slightly different & interesting on each HUMMER. Additionally, we get the parts (lines, hoses, etc.) we need as we installed so we never really put a full "kit" together. However, I do have some semblance of instructions, lots of pics, and a semblance of a parts list. In the shop we sell the "kit" for $1,800.00 and it's about a 15 hour installation job.

Additionally, to install the tank, we have to remove the catalyic converter, muffler, & exhaust tail pipe that goes up and over/under the fender well and out the back. We install an AMG Exhaust Pipe with Resonator and an AMG Tailpipe (like on the 92, 93, & HMMWVs). These parts run about $900.00. On the Turbo HUMMERs, there are four distinct advantages to doing this (if you don't have state diesel inspection requirements): 1) It's still all AMG exhaust parts, 2) With the Resonator you still get the "back pressure" to protect the turbo, 3) You will finally hear your Turbo whistle, and 4) You will experience increased HP as you're not loosing power through the Cat, Muffler & miles of Exhaust Pipe.

I would have to talk to Terry again to see if he's willing to sell a tank with whatever additional parts we have in stock, pics, & incomplete parts list and instructions. I know you said you have a fab guy, so maybe that will change Terry's thinking about selling a tank "outside" our shop. Let me know & if you're still interested and if so, I'll talk to Terry for you. Thank you.

[phazer42]

looks like you have a few options, one being their setup or having someone make one.... Personally, I wouldn't want my fuel feed line to be fairly close to an exhaust unless it was properly shielded....

Again, IMHO the best alternative would be one in each wheel well, the one in the left wheel well feeding the aux tank, and the one in the right wheel well feeding the main tank.... the pumping idea is probably the best, but more complex, but it all depends on the design.... feel free to e-mail me if you want to further understand what I am talking about.... phazer42@comcast.net